View Full Version : Citadel drops pre-meal prayer
thedrifter
08-17-03, 03:48 PM
Citadel drops pre-meal prayer
Saturday, August 16, 2003 Posted: 8:30 PM EDT (0030 GMT)
CHARLESTON, South Carolina (AP) -- The Citadel has dropped mealtime prayers after a federal appeals court decision this week involving the Virginia Military Institute.
On Wednesday, the 4th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals refused to reconsider a ruling that declared VMI's nondenominational group prayer unconstitutional.
Virginia Attorney General Jerry Kilgore said he would appeal to the U.S. Supreme Court.
Until this week, a prayer was said aloud at the start of all three meals at the Citadel. The prayers were delivered by cadets who volunteered to lead the blessing while members of the assembled corps bowed their heads.
When upperclassmen returned from summer break on Thursday, they observed a moment of silence at meals, as would the 650 freshmen arriving Saturday, school officials said.
Cadets now have the option to pray silently, meditate or just wait until the period of silence is over.
Any prayer that cadets offer must be silent "so they don't impose what they are doing on whoever is next to them," Citadel President Maj. Gen. John Grinalds said Friday.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Copyright 2003 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed
http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/South/08/16/citadel.prayer.ap/index.html
Sempers,
Roger
:marine:
firstsgtmike
08-17-03, 05:57 PM
Next, they will be dropping the Pledge of Allegience.
greensideout
08-17-03, 08:31 PM
Better to shut down the Citaldel then to have it silenced.
I think some leadership there must have left their bal*s in the locker room.
I'm sure that if individual cadets want to say grace they can. What is the big deal?
firstsgtmike
08-17-03, 10:16 PM
ivalis,
When you are seated at a mess table and conversations are going on, it's rather difficult to get other thoughts organized.
quote.
Until this week, a prayer was said aloud at the start of all three meals at the Citadel. The prayers were delivered by cadets who volunteered to lead the blessing while members of the assembled corps bowed their heads."
(and waited until he was finished before they started stuffing their faces.)
I don't say grace, before, during, or after meals. AND as long as we are not talking about an extended period of time, I can refrain from eating, and remain silent until those who choose to begin their meals with a ceremony have the opportunity to do so.
I agree with you. "What is the big deal?????"
To me, it is courtesy and respect for those I am sharing a table with.
I have been in crowded restaurants, and asked if we would share our table with another couple. "Yes, of course". There have been a couple of times where the other couple chose to say grace before partaking of their meal. My wife and I were respectfully silent.
What is the big deal?
I always took it to be the difference between "good manners" and "bad manners".
MAJMike
08-17-03, 10:57 PM
Gentlemen:
You once took an oath to defend the Constitution of the United States. Perhaps you should read it. It specifically states that the government shall not foster religion.
There is a reason that there is separation of Church and State in this country. It has served us well for 227 years.
First Amendment
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."
That means that we are all free to worship a God or Gods as we personally see fir, or not worship one if that is what we choose. It also means that an institution cannot force me, you or anyone else to worship a God or Gods in any prescribed manner.
It was my opinion when I served in 1968-75 that I was defending the freedoms available in this country.
This is one of 'em.
Devildogg4ever
08-18-03, 03:37 AM
I agree with firstsgtmike! They covered both that believe in prayer and that don't care for it! The ones who gave prayer "VOLUNTEERED" to do so. If not, you sat quietly a few moments. You mean to tell me ya can't set there a few moments without stuffing your face? How hard is it to figure out? You want prayer, you give it! If you don't, sit quietly a few moments for the ones who do!!
The prayer befoe each meal should happen, if you choose not to, sit/ stand and respect the others that around you that do pray. We were all taught in boot camp, that we defend God, Country, Corps.
Lock-n-Load
08-18-03, 04:34 AM
:marine:I say..."grace"...before each meal...it sustains me, if other insecure individuals feel threatened;then, that is their ...baggage!!...whatever became of our national motto: "In God We Trust" ...in summation, it's about time we took back our country [USA]!!:marine: Semper Fi, Mac
TheJester
08-18-03, 05:57 AM
As a Citadel Cadet I think its a horrible change in tradition. Very Much like the Marine Corps the Citadel Corps of Cadets is a brotherhood. The concept of teamwork completely surrounds you, especially during your fourth class year. And to be surrounded by the entire school population and have every member of the Corps recite the Cadet Prayer fills you with a feeling of pride of almost the same caliber as when Marines get together and join with one another and sing the Marines Hymn.
I can understand how one would not see how a prayer changes anything, but I think its pretty cool to see almost 2000 students of all shapes, sizes, races,& religions, join together for a few minutes and unites for the singular purpose of praising that which they love the most, their god, country, and school.
Citadel cadets thought the end of slavery was the end of a long tradition. Go figure.
"pretty cool" to describe prayer??? ain't the church i grew up in.
It's a public university. Grow up get used to it. If ya wan't to have school led prayer go to a private school.
TheJester
08-19-03, 08:39 AM
I mean no disrespect but
First off the term(s) I use to describe my feelings of prayer is a of no consequence to its importance. "Pretty cool", "Awesome", whatever it doesn't deminish the point. And your right the way we all feel about church and the way we describe it isn't the same as they way you do.
"Citadel Cadets thought the end of slavery was the end of a long tradition"
What? So did half the country whats your point? Or were Citadel Cadets the only people that were opposed to the end of slavery? Before you made that statement do you realise the role Citadel Cadets had when their was Slavery?