View Full Version : For all the poolees. (About Boot Camp)
08-14-03, 09:35 PM
This is for all of our future Marines.
I'm a PMI (Primary Marksmanship Instructor) At WFTBn (MCRD) Camp Pendleton Ca. I train recruits in boot camp on the fundamentals of marksmanship. I work with Drill Instructors and recruits every day. If you have any questions concerning the Marksmanship and Field phases of boot camp I would be glad to answer them for you.
08-14-03, 10:58 PM
No question, but I am jealous. That is the one job in the Marine Corps I always wanted to have. Enjoy life, because as we all know, a bad day on the range beats a great day anywhere else!
08-15-03, 05:42 AM
Welcome Aboard to the Best Marine Site on the net. Also welcome to your home away from home................
We have a great crew of Marines in here from WW II to the present............
Throw your sea bag in a corner, pull up a footlocker, sit and chat awhile.........
Thanks......Poolees ask your questions.......
"AGAIN WELCOME ABOARD."
okay, I don't know what to ask but I leave on Monday (18th) and was wondering what pointers you can give me for the range. Most likely I'll run into when we go to the range. I'm going to SD BTW. My goal for marksmanship is to get expert.
08-15-03, 12:35 PM
Everybody wants to shoot expert ropie. Just remember this. As Marksmanship instructors we love to have recruits shoot expert on the range, however, that is not our goal. The goal of marksmanship training in boot camp is for you (the recruit) to LEARN the fundamentals of Marksmanship. If I am your instructor, My focus is how much knowledge do you retain. While you are on the range remember always that safety is first and foremost among all other things you will learn there. If I could give you any advice about the range it would be to LISTEN, LEARN, and APPLY. These are the three things that I try to get through to my shooters. When you get to the Marksmanship phase of boot camp you will find yourself saying "yes sir" even when you don't know what was said. You must avoid this robotic type of response on the range. If you don't understand something ask. The best way to learn about something you don't know is to ask questions.
Remember, boot camp is not ment to be easy it's a challenge. More mentally than physically. When you feel like it's too hard, just remember, thousands have gone before you so it can be done. Best of luck to you.
Sgt Chapman WFTBn (MCRD) Camp Pendleton Edson Range Area
08-19-03, 09:28 AM
I've heard that the recoil of an M16A2 rifle in almost the equivalent of shooting a .22. is this true? i leave September 22nd.
the 5.56mm rounds used in the M16A2 are pretty much .22's. I've got to do weapons simulation at a local army base thanks to me being on a rifle team for my Marine Corps JROTC and yeah, the recoil ain't bad at all. Its actually pretty nice.
08-19-03, 10:58 AM
Thanks man. also another question i have is something that was brought up at one of my poolee meetings : Is the Marine Corps goin to issue the M16A4 rifle, or is that a rumor?
08-19-03, 05:05 PM
The USMC rejected the M4A1 assault rifle and went with the M16A4 as their newest combat rifle. Not sure when it's all gonna take place, but it probably won't be too earth shattering anywho because the A4 is VERY similar to the A2. However the Corps is still working hard on the OICW...so maybe in a few years we'll get to use that!
There is supposed to be a new combat knife/bayonette as well. It is designed to slice better and is weighted differently to suit the martial arts training that you will receive in boot camp.
08-19-03, 06:05 PM
joemustang, the recoil of the M16A2 is a lot more forceful than a .22. Unless you have fired a weapon, you don't know what the recoil will be like. Different weapons(rifles) have different recoils. I have fired many types of weapons, M1, M14, M16A1, SKS, AKA47, BAR, .45 SubThompson, .45 GreaseGun, M1 & M2 Carbine. .444 Marlin, Model 700 Remington 30-06, .27 Weatherbee, .22 Golden 39A, 30-30 Marlin and some others that I don't recall the name. So unless you fire that weapon you really don't know what the recoil is like. Listen to the Experts, the Marines in here can and will give you good advise. offhand200 is a Marine Marksmanship Instructor, he will give you the best advise on the use and firing of the M16A2.
08-19-03, 06:50 PM
The recoil of the M-16 A2 service rifle is a little bit more than a .22
Althought that's about the closest comparison you could probably associate it with. Thedrifter is right though. All weapons are going to feel a little bit different in your shoulder. There's not a lot of "kick" in the recoil of the M-16 because the buffer spring (you'll learn what that is in boot camp) absorbs most of it when the bolt carrier group is moving to the rear. The thing to remember about the M-16 is that it is very light, therefore, even a small amount of recoil can move the weapon quite a bit. That's why the switch from the M-16 A1 to the M-16 A2 included getting rid of the fully automatic selection. There is still a "burst" mode on the M-16 A2 that will fire 3 rounds each time you squeeze the trigger but remember, the weapon is light. I'm a 5th award expert and if I fire the weapon on burst, only one of my rounds goes where I want it to, the other two rounds go their own way. Good marksmanship is about fundamentals, and precision shooting, the recoil of the weapon is not a factor in good marksmanship. Correct fundamentals will allow your body to absorb the recoil with minimum movement. I teach all of my recruits a little saying. "The recoil of the weapon does not effect where my round goes." Remember that when you get to the rifle range and you'll avoid a little problem called "anticipation." You'll know what I'm talking about when you get to that phase of boot camp. I hope this answers your question. Give me some feedback so I can help you further if need be.
08-19-03, 06:55 PM
Good initiative bad judgement. (Get used to that phrase)
Are you on the committee that decides what weapons system the Marine Corps is going to use?
If not I would suggest that you don't make comments on things you don't know about. The fact of the matter is, the Marine Corps has not made the final decision on the new weapon of choice. Likewise, the m4 has, is, and will continue to be used in the Marine Corps. The context under which it will be used is something that you don't know about. So again I say good initiative bad judgement. Just because something was printed in the paper somewhere doesn't make it so. My point is make sure you have an inside source before you pass the gospel
Good to go? (That's a question that requires a response by the way)
08-19-03, 06:58 PM
One more peice of advise for all of you poolees. Get used to acting like Marines now. You will be required to act accordingly. Your not Marines yet, so I can't make you do anything, but common courtesies and a little respect toward Senior Marines can go a long way.
I'm not saying that anybody has said or done anything wrong or offensive, I'm just giving you all a little heads up. The Marine Corps is a place of dicipline. The sooner you learn it the better off you will be.
Semper Fi future Devil Dogs. I'm here to teach and support.
08-19-03, 07:05 PM
A 5.56 mm nato ball round IS NOTHING LIKE A .22. That honestly has to be the most ass nine comment I've ever heard. But due to your lack of experience, I'll let that one go. There is no comparison in size, velocity, range, or damage to the target. The fact of the matter is the 5.56mm round is designed to kill. Plain and simple it can and it will kill a human. Have you ever seen someone shot with a .22 or with a 5.56mm? I have seen both, and believe me, they are different. I am curious though, what gave you the idea that they were the same?
08-19-03, 08:16 PM
Actually, you are both wrong.... :D
5.56 Nato IS equal to .223 Rem.
And you can shoot regular .22 out of a M16 if you change the bolt.
Point being, that the diameter of a 5.56 is converted to .223
Currently the .223 Remington, or .223 for short, is the official cartridge of the United States Armed Forces and also used as the standard NATO rifle caliber where it is called the 5.56x45mm NATO round. The two calibers are interchangeable in all but a very few speciality precision rifles.
.223 = 5.56 (http://www.scottsdalegunclub.com/Questions/Bullet223.html)
08-19-03, 09:14 PM
Well you got me on that one Top. I knew that the 5.56mm and the .223 were the same but I did not realize that the diameter was the same as the .22. So there you all have it. But I'm sure you would agree Master Sergeant that a 5.56mm and a .22 are far from being the same. If there are any other similarities other than diameter, such as muzzle velocity, perhaps you could let us know.
Thank you for squaring us away on that.
08-19-03, 09:24 PM
I agree that a .22 will not do the same damage. I had a friend's father shot in the calf by a .22 rifle and it hardly hurt him. . I think you are on the mark by stating the differences.
On another note- you have one heck of a Sergeant Major out there. He gave me a room to stay in for 5 months out there. One heck of a retirement gift, to be able to see the Drill Instructors and Recruits everyday.
08-20-03, 01:08 AM
For the Poolees and wannabees.
" Sergeant Major gave me a room to stay in for 5 months out there. One heck of a retirement gift."
The Marine Corp's Brotherhood in action. (Although five months is a bit long.)
I was a "troubleshooter" (Contact Team) for 12th District Recruiting. I would spend a week assisting Recruiting offices.
95% of the time, I was invited to live with a local Recruiter. The exception being when the house was too small.
I drew "per diem" to pay for my hotel and meal expenses. My last night in town, I blew my "savings" by taking my host and his wife out to a dinner they would never forget.
I tell this, NOT as a pat on the back for me; because I didn't have a choice. I am a Marine. And that's who and what we are. I couldn't do any less, nor could they.
08-20-03, 01:53 AM
The 5.56 round comparing to the .223 is what I was trying to get at. Guess I didn't explain myself well enough. My bad, sorry for the confusion. I'll explain myself out better next time.
08-20-03, 09:45 AM
Good to go, Sir!
My apologies, when I said rejected the M4a1, I meant as the whole-hearted combat rifle. I know it's used in other applications, and I apologize for the mix up.
08-20-03, 06:02 PM
Not a problem. I just take things seriously. It's my style. You are right about it not being adopted as the combat rifle for the Marine Corps.
Don't call me sir. It's Sergeant. :)
08-20-03, 06:08 PM
2 things. 1st. I was talking to my range officer today and he said that the diameter of the .22 is slightly smaller than the diameter of the 5.56mm and that just changing the bolt, or bolt carrier group on the m-16 a2 wouldn't make it possible to fire a .22 from that weapon. You would have to change the barrell as well.
2nd. Which Sergeant Major?
Sergeant Major Roundtree (Current)
Sergeant Major McPherson (Previous)
08-20-03, 06:14 PM
1st Sgt Mike has a valid point for all of you poolees. The Marine Corps is a brotherhood, and no matter where you go, even Marines you never met will take care of you. Remember this when things seem a little rough, we can always count on each other.
08-20-03, 06:45 PM
SgtMaj Roundtree was there when I stayed in the barracks. I didn't mean to sound as if I stayed at his home. My room was in the old admin type barracks behind the Bn headquarters. A great environment. The point is that he didn't have to let me stay there, but he did. His exact words when I asked him if I could stay there was "I'll take care of you." That meant a lot to me because I could not easily afford a home in Missouri and to stay in town in Oceanside for another $500+. Geo Bachelor barracks are becoming a thing of the past. Staying at Edson Range made my transition much easier. Marines take care of Marines.
Now, old story. I believe the chamber of the M16A1 and A2 are the same (pls correct me if I am wrong.) I was in the good old National Guard '80-'82. We fired our A1's indoors (we shot into a funnel that spiraled to catch the round) with .22 long rifle (the exact round that I used in my own .22) by just changing the bolt. I took the same weapon to Ft. Leonard Wood, MO and changed the bolt and shot 5.56. I don't know if it is possible with an A2.
Funny thing about the Guard, they never gave out the bolts when we cleaned weapons, thought we would shoot eachother :D
Have you heard anything about the new range at Mirimar? Any discussion on changing Edson Range.
08-20-03, 10:52 PM
Sgt Maj Roundtree is a good Marine and a good Man. I'm glad to hear that he allowed you to stay in those barracks. I live in Oceanside and I know just how expensive it is. As far as the chambers on the M-16's I don't know if they are the same. But as I was saying earlier, when I discussed the issue with My Range Officer, he said that a .22 round would be too small and would simply rattle around in the chamber itself. He did say that he thinks it would be possible to fire it, but because of the minute size difference, there would be no telling where the round would go. I'll discuss it with him more tommorow and see if I can get some better input for you.
The new Range at Mirimar is Run by CWO Brewer, who coincidentaly was both my old Range Officer, and My old Shooting Team Captain. From what I've heard the electronic range is good to go, though it still has a few minor kinks that need to be worked out. Due to cost I don't believe we will see many of those in the Marine Corps anytime soon. Certainly not in recruit training, as time spent by recruits in the "Pitt" is valuable experience. I agree with what many critics of that particular range are saying though. Not having the marines Pull the targets up and down in the "pitt" takes away the advantage of a Marine getting used to the sound of rounds "snapping" overhead as they break the sound barrier when passing through the target.
What are your thoughts on that?
08-20-03, 10:59 PM
We had a discussion here about the new range... check it out...
Say Goodby to pulling butts discussion... (http://www.leatherneck.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=8659&highlight=rifle+range)
I can't tell you any details on how those rounds stayed in the chamber, I was 17 and a PVT in the Guard - That was 23 years ago :D
08-22-03, 08:27 AM
Why do I want to join the Marine Corps? An essay by Bear_Grunt
Some people I've run into lately think I've lost my mind. Maybe I have, I don't know. I can't really put into words why I have this drive to leave my family, have my head shaved, and go through weeks of gruling training. I can easly go back in the Army. I did well enough there when I was in. But I need something more...
This is a letter written by a young CPL to a friend of mine. My friend, a 1st LT in 1/75 Ranger reg., was looking for a way to get some of his younger troopers to reenlist. Thi is what he got:
Why I do what I do. I've often thought what on earth had possessed me to get me into the jungle boots I now fill. What gave me the idea to pursue this type of life. I have never been able to put it into words. I have my personal reasons, the glory and the title. I sometimes think that if we all had a sound track to our lives like they have in the movies, mine would be
the coolest. I get an occasional handshake and a thank you for what I do.
It's nice but I find no solace in that at 3 in the morning as I lay in
the mud and under 2 and a half inches of rain. Weeks let alone years of that kind of thing make it a bit easier to endure but it still none the less sucks.
I get paid close to nothing and after 2 combat tours living under the worst conditions possible I still haven't had enough, so why do I do it. I'm under the privilege of competing in the Best Ranger competition this year and one should be in the best shape of his life to finish let alone win. As I hit mile 19 of my 21-mile ruck run the other night I pondered on this. Why would I do this to myself? I've got friends in college and friends who have
jobs and are making good money. Why am I here with 60 pounds on my back at an excruciatingly painful jog, in the pouring rain? I found the answer in a the eyes of a subordinate on my first tour to Afghanistan. A man went down and with his gear and all probably weighed in excess of 270 pounds. We were
pinned down behind two small birms and there was about 20 feet of open ground between me, the senior guy, and one of my hooah's (a lower enlisted guy that has not yet been to Ranger school is called a hooah.) Ladened with his own gear and the
stress of the situation he grimaced for only a second. Without missing a beat that 150-pound kid dragged his buddy back far enough to get some cover and hoisted all 270+ pounds onto his back and took off at a dead sprint as if his friend's life depended on it (it did).
That kid was 18 years old. I knew then why I do what I do. The nation will always have a call, someone must answer it. That 18 year-old kid did. He could have been making more money flipping burgers; instead he was in Northern Afghanistan saving his friend's life. The honor in that is unfathomable. It's more satisfying than anything I have ever experienced. I
love what I do simply for that reason; it's a bittersweet feeling.
There's no pain like saying goodbye before you step on the plane, unsure of what will happen but hoping and praying that you'll come back eventually. The entire process of emotions is unexplainable but the feeling that I get when I see my flag billowing in the wind is worth the sacrifice, even the ultimate one. I and those like me are warriors in the name of the
United States of America. We don't do it for money,or glory, or girls. We do it for you, your family and each other. Some of
us are gone and won't ever come back but it's worth it to protect our freedoms and liberty's.
I love my country. I may not love everything about it but I love it
none the less. This country is protected by our blood and sweat, don't take that for granted. Never, never, forget. I won't...
Cpl John C. Buckley IV
USA Army Ranger 3rd Ranger Battalion 75th Ranger Regiment
This spirit that Cpl Buckley is not uncommon amongst members of the 75th Ranger Regiment. It does, however in my opinion, begin to dissapate when you go further down the line. Airborne units have this spirit,but not as much as the Ranges. Regular line units don't have it as much as Airborne units. Support units don't have very much of this spirit and service support units... well it's almost non existant.
The one place that I have seen that has this spirit, this brotherhood, this espre du corps is The United States Marine Corps. It is a place that I know I can go and become a part of something. I am not accepted and just herded through training. I must rise above what I am to become a Marine. I am not jioning the Marines, I am becoming a Marine. And once I am a Marine I know that the Marines to my left and the Marines to my right are my brothers. I know when the rounds begin to fly downrange that they will be there for me. They will show the same dedication to every one of their brother Marines that the young Hooah showed for his fallen comrade.
I know this because I've seen it. I saw it on joint training exersises while I was in the Army. I saw it during the TV coverage of the war in Iraq. I 've seen it on several of these message boards on this web site. This is what I want to become a part of. This is why I want to be a Marine.:marine:
08-22-03, 09:13 AM
There is not much that anyone could, or should, add to bear_grunt's post. Pick it apart and analyze it and it is ALL there.
The only change I would make would be in the title of the essay. Because as he points out in the body of the essay,
You do not JOIN the Marines, you BECOME a Marine.
The essay defines who and what we are, and why.
08-22-03, 09:49 AM
That's good man, real good. It's pretty much how I feel too. I want to belong and I want to earn something that not many others have.
08-22-03, 01:01 PM
I truly enjoyed reading that bear. Thank you for sharing it with us.
You know, even in the Marine Corps, it never hurts for us to be reminded of what we're here for. If you spend enough time away from a "hot zone" you can easily enough forget what that feeling of brotherhood is like. The truth of the matter is bear, not every Marine in the Marine Corps feels that special bond and dedication to Corps and country. However, there are more Marines with that kind of pride and spirit than there are in any other branch of service. The best part is, those that don't feel that way, don't stay around very long. And those of us who do, are what make the Marine Corps and this country, the place that it is.
Semper Fidelis to all the Marines and soon to be. I hope that all of you enjoyed reading this as much as I did. Because that is what the Marine Corps is about. BROTHERHOOD.