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View Full Version : Marine's, family, friends, please read and act



SSgt Ramsey
10-12-09, 07:53 AM
Marines, family, and friends:

Recently, Congress approved and implemented the new Post 9/11 GI Bill program which drastically increases the benefits available to Veteran's in pursuit of their educational desires and dreams over the Montgomery GI Bill program. In addition to increased benefits for tuition, it also includes a annual book/supply stipend and a housing allowance equal to that of a E-5 w/dependents rate in the zip code their shool is. For most Veteran's, this is between $1000-$2000 a month for safe, convenient, and affordable housing while attending their school of choice.

I wish to attend the Motorcycle Mechanic Institute in Orlando, Florida for the Harley Davidson Mechanic program to increase my knowledge and achieve the skills needed to work on these motorcycles in the safety and comfort of my home garage in my spare time. As many of you know, this is the only recognized factory sponsored school for producing factory qualified and certified mechanics for both entry level and throughout the career of mechanics to increase their skills and knowledge.

The Post 9/11 GI Bill is not recognizing this program of study and school to be eligible for the increased benefits and payments afforded to qualified Veteran's. Their "logic" is that since the school program of study does not lead to a Associates or Bachelor degree, it is not worthy under the new program. Incidentally, previous to this this school was fully supported and eligible for GI BIll monies under the Montgomery GI Bill.

I simply wish to receive the training to work on my bike and those of my friends who own Harley's in my spare time for something to do. I also want to participate in their partnership with Snap-On tools with student discounts of up to 55% off selected tools to have the necessary and quality tools to facilitate this.

Without this Bill being changed to include MMI and other such skilled trades, my dream will not be a reality for me and many other Veteran's. I will not be able to attend this school without the benefit of using the Post 9/11 GI Bill program as I'm married, have a home, and a teenage daughter at home.

I have contacted both the offices of Congressman Rick Boucher (D, VA) and also Senator Jim Webb (D, VA) with my concerns, issue with, and reasoning for amending the current legislation to include these types of programse eligibility under the Post 9/11 GI Bill for all Veteran's.

I am humbly asking those of you who wish to do so contact your elected leadership from your home states in this issue. If enough of them receive letters or correspondence requesting the required changes to this bill to include these types of programs to authorize more Veteran's into these and other types of programs.

Thank you all very much for your time and consideration in reading this post and thank you in advance if you do in fact contact your Congressman and Senators.

SSgt Ramsey
10-14-09, 01:06 PM
Since I posted this there have been 43 reads, yet not one response from another Marine, Veteran, Retiree, or anybody else stating whether they are for, against, or any constructive/deconstructive...

NoRemorse
10-14-09, 01:11 PM
Got no support so far from any CT politicians. I know some reservists who work for the municipalities, they might have a better angle.

I'm surprised you weren't able to get much from Senator Webb.

Maybe it needs a big name to push. Celebrities like Gary Sinise or something along those lines.

SSgt Ramsey
10-14-09, 01:21 PM
It's much simpler than that NR...we need to contact our Senators and Congressman en-masse and outline what is broken, why, and a proposed fix to make the Post 9/11 GI Bill more accessable to ALL Veteran's....

This new bill has some great points, but it has its flaws....

The original GI Bill has to be destroyed completely and more modern benefits be included in the new GI Bill to encompass them, such as new and improved programs for technical trades, increased Apprenticeship programs etc.

Why they didn't totally dismantle the old and create a entirely new GI Bill is beyond me....I don't understand....

NoRemorse
10-14-09, 01:24 PM
Then we could work on a form letter and a few variations of it to make things simpler. You can submit stuff online to your Senator, print out a version and send it in, come up with something you can say when you call the hotline.

We can bombard the crap out of them but ammo would be appreciated for some. We're Marines, we tend to be terse but tactful. This isn't an issue we can cover with a few words. I'm not asking for anything lengthy but something from the heart would work well.

It could also be sent in to news stations.

SSgt Ramsey
10-14-09, 01:34 PM
You can't contact your Senator's and Congressman any more on these matters for official assistance without signing a statement and Privacy Act Release for them to address your concerns.

A simple letter stating that you feel that all programs of study from accredited institutions for certificate programs for the trades or skilled labor should be included in the Post 9/11 GI Bill with all the same benefits afforded to those seeking the higher degrees would do it.

Many of the skilled trades/labor do not have an associated higher degree such as a Associates or Bachelor degree but are no less vaild as an occupation or vocation.

NoRemorse
10-14-09, 01:34 PM
Here's what I sent in to my Senators in case anybody wants to use it as a draft.

Quite frankly I think my version sucked and I still have yet to receive a response from either in the form of a letter, email or automated phone call, then again it was a holiday.

It's come to my attention that with the new Post 9/11 Montgomery GI bill veterans have access to increased funding for a more restricted list of schooling/training.

As a Marine I can understand the plight of my brothers who wish to seek some sort of vocational training to increase their value, knowledge base and employability.
The crux of the matter is this; with the new GI bill returning service members are unable to select vocational or training schools based on their tier or academic status.

A service member looking to go into a trade would be unable to use the GI bill for funding in most scenarios because the trade schools most widely used or accepted in the various trade industries are not covered by the bill.

This is very disconcerting and disheartening. While many of my brothers will suffer a smaller burden monetarily while attending college those who chose to improve their skill base in a way that was covered under the prior bill are locked out of the system.
I write this in the hopes that someone can head an initiative to reform the new Post 9/11 Montgomery GI bill in order to provide these deserving service members with a more just reward; even though we will be hard pressed to ever repay the debt owed to them for the service they have done for their country.

While they served for myriad reasons and many would ask for little or nothing it is our duty to make sure they are well taken care of and able to parley their experience and skills into gainful employment in the private and public sectors.

It is our duty and our privilege as Americans to stand for our brothers and sisters.

SSgt Ramsey
10-14-09, 01:40 PM
NoRemorse....that's perfect, thanks...hopefully more Marine's will pile on and generally make a nuissance of ourselves in contacting our Senator's and Congressman....

While I did notify Congressman Boucher on this, I officially requested action from the office of Senator Webb...Senators usually have more "pull" with Congress as there are only 2 per state.

I just got lucky that Senator Webb is from Virginia and helped draft the new Bill with Senator Akaka from Hawaii and championed it. That he's a former Marine Platoon Commander helps out also.

NoRemorse
10-14-09, 01:42 PM
I don't know how many caseworkers Senator Webb has but I'd definetely go hunting for more Virginia service members to make sure this becomes a priority for them. I'll ask around at home here and hit up the recruiters in the area.

SSgt Ramsey
10-14-09, 02:01 PM
While I agree that where Senator Webb is from Virginia and those of us who are legal residents of Virginia may have a direct voice with him, I don't ultimately think it really matters who we contact.

The fact that we as Marine's unify and voice our concerns and opinions is the important thing here....who we contact is a point of semantics.

This is what we defended, this is our ideal of Freedom that we have a voice in our Government...in that the little guy can have a impact on their future...this is what is important.

To all of you who do in fact take the time to write your Senators in this issue, or any Veteran's issue that you feel is wrong, I applaud you and thank you. This is how things are changed.

I'm not done in contacting people, not by a long-shot....but it's a start...this isn't just about SSgt Ramsey and my desire to attend UTI for the Harley mechanic class...this is about all the returning Veteran's who wish to pursue this and other types of training they desire to do and go on to live their version of the American dream. That is what is driving me...that I may help out some kid I will never know who is sitting in Iraq or Afghanistan the choice of what they can take for higher education, and not be told what they can take and pursue.

drknite30
11-07-09, 09:12 AM
Just joined this site and this is the first thing I looked for. I have been fighting the VA on this out dated rule for two years. I have been looking to go for flight training and I would have to pay half of the course price. That's $35,000. I have gone through my Congresswoman and Senator's offices. And I got no where. I even wrote and called the Congress Sub-Committee on the VA, this was before the new post 9/11 bill. And no change to the bill on that.
Now I'm am 20% disabled Vet also, so I'm told I rate for Voc Rehab. Where I'm told I can go to any school and they'll pay for it completely. Except flight training where again I have to pay for half of the price. Talking to the VA reps, they agree with me, but they tell me it has to take a change of law to fix it. I thought the point of it is to get you training for a job. I am not giving up on this also. I have two years left on Voc Rehab, as I just need six months for training. So hopefully something can get done.

Old Marine
11-07-09, 09:58 AM
This is nothing new. When I retired in 1973 I went to college and took 12 units of Motorcycle Repair. I was informed by the government that I could not major in Motorcycle Repair and have them pay for it. I ended up majoring in Anthropology. They paid for that.

SSgt Ramsey
11-18-09, 07:46 AM
I got a call back from the Senators office from his Aide that after contacting the DC office, the change to include these non-degree and certificate programs is in the works now.

How soon this will take place, I don't know....they have to change the legislation to reflect this as a amendment then pass it and it will become effective.

I do know that the IAVA is actively engaged in this now and it lobbying for change at the Congressional level and I think it has some support from both sides for implementation.

SSgt Ramsey
12-03-09, 11:23 AM
For those that did write their Senators and Congressman, has anybody else heard back a response regarding this?

I'm chomping at the bit to enroll in MMI for the Harley Davidson mechanic course...this needs to be done soon :D

NoRemorse
12-03-09, 11:26 AM
Don't remember if I posted before but Lieberman's office sent me a letter. I have to see if I can call up and speak with one of his guys in person.

SSgt Ramsey
12-03-09, 11:29 AM
Thanks NR..please post your phoncon results here for us all to read please....I'm very anxious for this to be changed obviously for myself and countless other Veteran's who are in the same boat....

NoRemorse
12-07-09, 08:45 AM
Voicemail, form email, still no call back.

they may have a full inbox come January.

Quinbo
12-07-09, 09:02 AM
Get a student loan or maybe a pell grant. Study hard and get a degree. Apply what you have learned to a profession. Earn enough money to pay off your student loan. Get promoted as an expert in your field. Move on to bigger and better things.

Hold out your hand and ask for money to pay your rent as well as all tuition and expenses while you learn to play with motorcyles. Apply what you have learned to working on your bike in the garage.

Quinbo
12-11-09, 06:35 PM
I've mulled this over a bit and really got to wondering? Where do they draw the line? Does everyone no matter what get a full VHA/COLA/Comrats plus full T/A regardless of their educational pursuits?

I'm a keen fan of fishing so can I take a certification course to become a certified koi inspector and then when that course is completed can I take a class and become a certified fly tyer? I could milk it out a little more and take a course in repair of johnson boat motors since my bass boat has a johnson. That might get my house note paid for about 4 years and all I'd have to do is go fishing.

I am not disagreeing but there has to be a line drawn. Certification courses great! There are many and an employer will cover the cost or most of it usually. If they don't then by all means you should dip in to your T/A and cover the rest. It doesn't mean the govmint should pay your rent while you attend the course.

College great! Great a degree! It has been recognized that the financial burden of college is something you need a little help with and you deserve it as a veteran.

Finding the loop hole and living off the government... not good.

Vandrel
12-11-09, 08:09 PM
MMI/UTI are not the same as going a getting a fishing certification or koi inspector. <br />
<br />
The basic mechanic course through UTI costs roughly $20,000 and takes over a year to accomplish. Once the...

Quinbo
12-11-09, 08:17 PM
Van we are really talking apples and oranges here.
Attending a course to increase your professional employablilty verses attending a course to improve your ability to work on your motorcycle in the garage.

Vandrel
12-11-09, 08:36 PM
Professional employment is the same thing as being a Master ASE certified technician and Ford certified. Guess what master tech's do? They supervise and manage the maintenance personnel who are snot nosed little 18 year olds out of highschool changing oil.

I suppose getting a bachelors degree in basketweaving or pottery trumps that?

Master techs generally start at around $30 an hour depending on the employeer, more if they have experience and work history. I think that classifies as professional employment vise the average no experience BA or AA grad who would be lucky for a $20 an hour position with no real experience other then reading text books.

Integrity57
12-12-09, 12:01 AM
This is really disheartening to read as I was hoping to attend WyoTech (one of the best mechanic schools in the nation) to get training in Diesel Maintenace and hopefully get a decent job offer since there really aren't any Aircraft maintenance job openings in my area, which is especially frustrating since I already have about a year's worth of training in it and haven't gotten to put to use what I've already learned. How ****ing stupid is it that politicians and the top brass of the services wouldn't take trade schools into consideration when making this new GI Bill? I guess they supposed that once we got tired of doing the "grunt" work in our respective branches that ALL of us would rather sit at a desk the rest of our working years.

Vandrel
12-12-09, 07:46 AM
WyoTech is in a worse situation then UTI, the basic Wyotech course is shorter then UTI which means less GI Bill to cover the costs.