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UMDStudent24
10-03-09, 09:36 PM
If any Marines are interested in going to OCS, I just want to give a little information.

There were a few prior enlisted guys in my platoon at OCS. We had 3 Lance Corporals (Infantry, Military Police, and I forget what the last was... he was a 92-day reservist and hadn't been to MOS school yet); a Corporal (Motor -T); A Sergeant (Artillery - 1 deployment); and a Staff Sergeant (Reconnaissance Marine, interestingly he was music before he made recon.)

It is important to remember, every comparison I make is not validated by my own experience. I have never been to Boot Camp. My sister has, and the priors have. My knowledge of the experience at Boot Camp is from their accounts and from information available online and elsewhere.

To begin:

OCS receiving is much less dramatic. Candidates all arrive via different sources of transportation. There is no bus and there are no yellow footprints. We are not recieved by Drill Instructors. We are moved in a herd from place to place by NCO handlers. We are assigned our Company and Platoon and are grouped accordingly. Our in-processing takes 5 days. We recieve all of our 782 gear, our utility uniforms, large bag issue, small bag issue, etc. Things are very lackadasical; there is no discipline. The process has not begun and it does not feel real. In this stage you are required to pass medical and earn a 1st class PFT (225+). Those who do not earn a 1st class PFT are given one more chance the next day to do so. If they fail to earn a 1st class PFT, they are sent home. There is no PCP. If you're not physically qualified, you are dropped.

After those 5 days, everyone who remains is administratively joined to OCS and will undergo pick-up. At OCS, pick up consists of a speech given by the Battalion Commander, the presentation of our staff, followed by a return to the squadbays. The Batalion Commander, for my OCS class, asked that we all put forth maximum effort for 4 weeks and evaluate if this is what we truly want to do. (You can quit OCS after 4 weeks. It makes for an entirely different feeling according to the priors.) Here is the first important distinction between OCS and Boot Camp. OCS is about finding out who among the candidates will be capable of leading Marines in stressful situations and sending home those who cannot. The attrition rate is very high; historically around 36%. Those who decide they do not want to are encouraged to get the hell out. Those who just can't cut it are sent home. Obviously, at Boot Camp, the fastest way out is to graduate. You're there to be turned into a Marine.

Upon the return to the squadbays, Candidates meet their instructors. Instructors at OCS are referred to as Sergeant Instructors, not Drill Instructors. They are all former Drill Instructors. We do not have a Senior, a kill hat, or a drill hat. We have a Platoon Sergeant, and two Sergeant Instructors. My Platoon's Instructors and Platoon Sergeant were all Gunnery Sergeants.

At pick up we learn that our new vocabulary will be this candidate, these candidates, those candidates, as well as yes (rank), no (rank), and aye aye (rank). This is another big distinction from Boot Camp. When an Instructor speaks to us, we respond with his rank; not with Sir. However, at Pick up, priors said things pretty much acted out exactly as they did at Boot Camp. Everything is done by the numbers and counted down. At 1, it would be DONE GUNNERY SERGEANT DONE! Commands would elicit, "TAKE THE SQUAD BAY AYE GUNNERY SERGEANT!, "READY", then the response, "READY", response, "MOVE", response and carry out the order.

Anyways, the first week mirrors Boot Camp except that we have no Indivual Incentive Training. We're told the philosphy behind this is that OCS is not about instilling discipline; those who do not follow orders will simply be sent home. So, this makes getting called out pretty anti-climatic once you adjust to the yelling. However our instructors still made plenty use of Platoon-wide Incentive Training. This was utilized for creating stress and forcing teamwork. The Platoon wide Incentive Training came more into play as the Instructors backed off.

After the first week or two (my memory is fuzzy,) Candidates run the show. We all know the daily schedule. Sergeant Instructors no longer march the platoon from location to location. Sergeant Instructors no longer tell us the gear we need, nor do they run our Daily Basic Routine, nor our morning routine (unless they felt they needed to do those things as a punishment, because of a lack of cohesion or lack of overall discipline.) Candidates are placed in billets from Fire Team leader all the way to Company Commander. The Candidate Platoon Sergeant bears most of the responsibility for running the Platoon, while the Candidate Platoon Commander gets most of the trouble if the Platoon Sergeant screws up. Candidate Squad Leaders and the Candidate Guide enforce the Candidate Platoon Sergeant's Commands and maintain Platoon discipline.
At the Company level, Candidate Company Staff ensures the entire Company gets from place to place on time; ensures the Company has the proper gear; ensures all Rifles are accounted for; ensures that the Candidate Platoon staff from each Platoon is doing their job. Formation, with the exception of the first two weeks, is done b Candidates.

This (and physical fitness), according to the priors, is the biggest difference between OCS and Boot Camp. At OCS, you're expected to be able to run everything and make sure everyone is prepared for training and evaluation while the Instructors berate you. Everyone gets a chance in a billet and it is very clear which Candidates are strong leaders and which ones are not. Being a poor leader will get you sent home in a heartbeat. I cannot count how many times I personally witnessed that happen.


The other major difference, again, according to the priors is physical fitness.
(Just for reference, I had a 270 as my initial PFT score heading into OCS with my worst run time in months.)
We do not have PT every morning. However, to put into perspective; the PFT and CFT were BY FAR the easiest physical days we had at OCS. Every PT session involving a run was more than 3 miles and typically run at better than **officially** a 7 minute pace. (I went into OCS able to run 3 miles in 21 minutes and change and left OCS able to run in the 19's and I was more than sucking wind with every run, so that 7 minute figure IMO is inaccurate.) There were many many times that we ran 4 or 5 miles at better than a 6 minute pace. We do not divide into rabbits, turtles, and medium. Every time you fall out of a run, you are given a physical fitness failure. (We have total scores based upon all of our evaluations at OCS. Average below an 80 in any category and you are sent to a board to be dropped.) The categories broke down as follows, Physical fitness (25% of the total), Academics (25% of the total), and Leadership (50% of the total.) Our physical fitness events included:

The Endurance Course (hardest thing I have ever had to do in my entire life.) 33 minutes for a 100 -- a perfect score, 43 minutes to obtain an 80 -- a passing score. (Failing the endurance course is an automatic board and likely, being dropped from OCS.) I scored a 41:24

The Obstacle Course. 2 minutes for an 80, 1 minute for a 100.

The 9 - mile hike. (Pass/Fail) If you failed, the 12 mile hike was your chance to pass OCS.

There is much more, but I found a site that covers PT extensively, so I'm gonna cut this section short and post the link. Here it is:
http://manlypat.wordpress.com/2009/03/24/ocs-physical-training-guide/


We also recieve liberty every weekend after the first 4 weeks. Liberty was probably the best and worst thing about OCS to me. Being allowed outside of the training environment for 26 hours or so allowed you to think about how much things suck and get you out of your routine. Being able to quit makes it that much harder to come back after you get to relax. It really changes the entire feeling of training. It also gives you time to rest your bodyand get things done; like laundry and uniform prep for inspections.

I hope this helps any Marine considering OCS.

To simplify; from the priors:

OCS is harder physically, easier mentally. There are more expectations of you at OCS than at Boot Camp but you're not punished nearly as harshly.

As far as calling one harder or easier overall or in any category; I cannot make that call because I have not been to both. Those comparisons were made by priors in my platoon not by me.

That is all.

UMDStudent24
10-03-09, 09:43 PM
typo! Supposed to read 'formations are done by candidates.' Not, 'done b candidates.'

josephd
10-04-09, 03:26 AM
great thread/post...

a few friends of mine are Lt.'s and they have been through both OCS and boot, they have both said OCS is harder by a long shot. At bootcamp you know whats expected of you everyday and as long as you move fast, sound off, and do what you need you need to do its easy (relatively). But OCS depending on you billet at that time you are expected to lead and carry people on to of the physical aspect.

I had my package set up to go to OCS this next year but I don't have the motivation to finish school this year. Would rather go on deployment and do my enlisted time and go from there.

Wyoming
10-04-09, 08:33 AM
great thread/post...

a few friends of mine are Lt.'s and they have been through both OCS and boot, they have both said OCS is harder by a long shot. At bootcamp you know whats expected of you everyday and as long as you move fast, sound off, and do what you need you need to do its easy (relatively). But OCS depending on you billet at that time you are expected to lead and carry people on to of the physical aspect.

I had my package set up to go to OCS this next year but I don't have the motivation to finish school this year. Would rather go on deployment and do my enlisted time and go from there.

Interesting. You would rather bartend.

Nothing against bartenders, as they are some of my best friends, but your lack of motivation now, can, and most probably will, carry over.

Your LT friends, trust me, they are going on a different path. You are not on it, nor can you join in their reindeer games.

josephd
10-04-09, 04:26 PM
Interesting. You would rather bartend.

Nothing against bartenders, as they are some of my best friends, but your lack of motivation now, can, and most probably will, carry over.

Your LT friends, trust me, they are going on a different path. You are not on it, nor can you join in their reindeer games.

hahaha no I would not rather bartend, I am not doing that anymore either...I havent changed my profile since I first came here.

As long as everything goes well, I will be getting deployed here this winter.

I just see the responsibilities they have as Lt.'s and that is not something I want.

USCFIGHTONUSC
10-04-09, 05:38 PM
I just see the responsibilities they have as Lt.'s and that is not something I want.

At least you're an honest Marine. Too many people today assume they can be both enlisted and officers, or they assume that because they went to college that they should become officers.

Being an officer is simply not for everyone.

Zulu 36
10-04-09, 07:06 PM
I got pestered all through my military career (Marine and Air Guard) to become an officer. They just couldn't understand that I really liked being an NCO. I could have done the job, I didn't want to deal with the side BS that went along with it.


NCO: YOU FRICKIN' SH*THEAD! GET YER SORRY AZZ OVER HERE!

Officer: PFC, report over here.


NCO: AIN'T NO FRICKIN' WAY THAT SH*T IS GONNA PLAY WITH ME!

Officer: I'm afraid it cannot be done that way.


NCO: F*CK YOU!

Officer: I'm frightfully sorry, but no.

Geagle05
10-27-09, 11:55 PM
Nice post UMD. I assume you just went through OCS as well as you described the latest pick up (no more dump your junk on the parade deck...). I just wanted to add one thing with regards to priors at OCS.

The main thing I saw with priors at OCS were academics and attitude. First, it may surprise some that priors would struggle with academics, but some did. A lot of what you learn at OCS are the very basics and is either easily forgotten from recruit training, or is very different from the Fleet. For example, you would think that every Marine would get high scores at the weapons handling exam. Negative. Some of the Marines got very low scores as a buddy of mine (a prior AD Sgt. WITH a few tours in Iraq) did this current class. He likely wasn't wrong...just the stuff they have you do at OCS is very Barney style. My advice is to study the knowledge as if you had never seen it before in your life. My Plt Sgt. told one prior that failing academics was one of the number one problems for priors at OCS.

Second, some priors can run into attitude problems. I will say that a NCO style of leadership is encouraged while holding billet positions, but some priors run into problems by running the show as if they're a DI...when they're not. Sometimes this is bad, but if you're a PFC or LCpl with little other experience other than recruit training, often times yelling without a solution will not put you into much favor with your peers (and there are peer evals which can boot you out). We had two priors kicked out of our platoon at OCS (both Corporals). One quit (he was older, was out of the Corps, and had a job and family and didn't want to take the flak...) the other was very nasty. He didn't belong there to be honest. Other priors that I know got kicked out were dropped for integrity reasons. One skipped obstacles during the E course, another got caught steeling money. As the OP said, integrity is everything...Marine or not...don't be an idiot.

Lastly, and this might surprise some as well. Some priors (although, I don't know of any getting dropped for this reason...) struggled with PT. The standards are high at OCS. Many of the guys in our plt were scoring in the 290+ range. While OCS has shifted more from running to Cross Fit/combat fitness type workouts, the bottom line is you still got to be in great shape. I hear that at the current class, there is a prior Hat that fell out of the initial 4 mile hump and the Fartleks. From what I hear from the guys in his platoon, his attitude is lacking as well...like I said spotlighting candidates (without any solution to the problem) like a DI will not win you any points with candidates or staff. I'd be surprised if he made it.

IMHO, priors will either excel or not do so well (with the overwhelming majority excelling). By default, everyone looks up to the priors and as well they should. The best priors were the ones that showed that they could lead and provide the non-priors the knowledge they learned from the Fleet or Recruit Training. Leadership styles will always be different. One prior in my platoon was a LCpl infantry reservist who was locked on in every way. We looked up to him because he was the epitome of the leadership traits. Another, and one of my closest friends, was a prior active duty Sgt. He joked around a bit more, but he always got the job done...and when he struggled...he put in the effort. We looked up to him, because we overall admired his personality. He was that guy that would do anything for you, and you would do the same for him in return.

Anyways, I hope this helps those priors going to OCS. I have many enlisted friends looking to go down the officer route (some in cycle now) and I told them the exact same thing!

R/s,

Geagles.

DIBLO7
10-28-09, 12:23 AM
To simplify; from the priors:

OCS is harder physically, easier mentally. There are more expectations of you at OCS than at Boot Camp but you're not punished nearly as harshly.



I disagree with this. While the PT is definitely much more demanding at OCS, you are not getting slayed by the Sergeant Instructors all the time, like you are at Recruit Training. If you get away from the structured PT, it was much easier physically.

Mentally it is much more difficult, because there is the fear of always getting dropped. At Recruit Training you will pass. As long as you don't quit on yourself, you will keep getting recycled until you graduate. At OCS, you **** off the wrong Sergeant Instructor and get a couple chits, your done, don't pass Go, don't collect $200, just get on the plane and head home.

I remember going through the chow line and telling one of my buddies from another platoon that I had just found out my wife was pregnant, he smiled, and a Sergeant Instructor saw him, then accused me of smiling. When I said I didn't, I was called an integrity violator and got a chit for it. This was like the second week of training and I thought for sure I was getting kicked out for it. That screws with your head much more than any DI yelling at you and throwing a foot locker around.

Also, I would go as far as to say the punishments, while not physical in nature mess you up more than any IT would do. In boot camp I was in a fairly small platoon, (I think we graduated 45ish) and thus had firewatch just about every night. I still got at least 6 hours of sleep most nights. At OCS, I was lucky to get 4 or 5.

Finally...the PLCers..having to go back for 6 more weeks, holy crap, sucks for them...

Anyways, thats just my .02, from someone who's been to both OCS and Boot Camp.

UMDStudent24
10-28-09, 01:20 PM
Sergeant,

I will agree with the mental aspect of worrying about being dropped driving you crazy. I remember that on the first gear inspection, I did not have my poncho liner. (A candidate one rack down from me had two, but didn't notice this until a couple of days later.) This was sometime during the first week and one of my Sergeant Instructors called me forward and lit me up. He told me he would never let me become an Officer of Marines since I couldn't even keep track of my own gear. He proceeded to tell me how I was an absolute piece of ****.
After that point I was constantly worried that I was going home. That drove me crazy, and I will agree on the lack of sleep. The only time I ever had more than 3 or 4 hours of sleep was weeks 8, 9, and 10.

As for the rest of it, you're probably more accurate in your comparisons than I am considering that you have gone to both.

UMDStudent24
10-28-09, 01:23 PM
Geagles,

Almost exactly, that was my experience with priors as well.

Also, I went this past summer for PLC-C. I was Bravo Company.

I also see you're from Annapolis; I went to Severna Park High School, so I'd say we're pretty much from the same area. Small world. What office did you contract out of?

Geagle05
10-28-09, 02:05 PM
Geagles,

Almost exactly, that was my experience with priors as well.

Also, I went this past summer for PLC-C. I was Bravo Company.

I also see you're from Annapolis; I went to Severna Park High School, so I'd say we're pretty much from the same area. Small world. What office did you contract out of?

Ah you bravo bastards lol...still thinking of the big pugil stick bout. I was the first fight, and you might remember, but I was the one that our DI made go warm up against the tree...lol.

Yeah, I grew up there, but really spent most of my time near the DC area. Went to Gonzaga HS. But my place in Annapolis was right off Spa creek and the bridge. I contracted out of the Fairfax OSS. I assume you were Hyattsville under Capt. P.? When's your comm date? Both our OSSs are doing an event at the O course at Ft. Meade next month. I might be there. Anyways, it's nice being done ain't it?! ;)

Geagle05
10-28-09, 02:24 PM
I disagree with this. While the PT is definitely much more demanding at OCS, you are not getting slayed by the Sergeant Instructors all the time, like you are at Recruit Training. If you get away from the structured PT, it was much easier physically.

Mentally it is much more difficult, because there is the fear of always getting dropped. At Recruit Training you will pass. As long as you don't quit on yourself, you will keep getting recycled until you graduate. At OCS, you **** off the wrong Sergeant Instructor and get a couple chits, your done, don't pass Go, don't collect $200, just get on the plane and head home.

I remember going through the chow line and telling one of my buddies from another platoon that I had just found out my wife was pregnant, he smiled, and a Sergeant Instructor saw him, then accused me of smiling. When I said I didn't, I was called an integrity violator and got a chit for it. This was like the second week of training and I thought for sure I was getting kicked out for it. That screws with your head much more than any DI yelling at you and throwing a foot locker around.

Also, I would go as far as to say the punishments, while not physical in nature mess you up more than any IT would do. In boot camp I was in a fairly small platoon, (I think we graduated 45ish) and thus had firewatch just about every night. I still got at least 6 hours of sleep most nights. At OCS, I was lucky to get 4 or 5.

Finally...the PLCers..having to go back for 6 more weeks, holy crap, sucks for them...

Anyways, thats just my .02, from someone who's been to both OCS and Boot Camp.

Yeah I'll agree here as well. While I am not a prior, I did do a "mini OCS" wknd where IT was allowed. In fact, one of my OCS plt sgt's told me that the mini OCS wknd was similar to how they trained recruits at the RDs. That being said, those 3 days of mini OCS were much more physically demanding than real OCS. Getting IT'ed sucks and it sure works. It instills discipline FAST.

The PT at OCS was not all that bad especially since they moved away from the "run you into the dirt" philosophy. PT was what like 4x a week and most of the time it was your avg 3-4 mile Fartlek. PT was a strong point for me (298 PFT), but I still think that provided you're in decent shape and trained beforehand that most shouldn't fail because of PT. If you're under the 250 mark, you might struggle...but I've seen other guys do it...the mind is a powerful asset!

The mental game is what makes or breaks you at OCS. This is what got a lot of the priors. Pick up and the first few weeks of OCS in terms of intensity are not as bad compared to boot (from what the priors tell me). Yeah they yell at you, kick around your trash, etc. but if you've been there before it should all be familiar. However, the same priors that were saying how "easy" it was were the same ones at week 6 scared sh*tless whether they'd be there another week. The fear of getting dropped is a complete mindf*ck. Even liberty is part of that game. No doubt, having liberty is a complete luxury compared to our enlisted counterparts, but it is still a certain part of the evaluation. It tests to see how you handle your free time. Many guys got dropped for getting sloppy drunk on liberty and come back failing the academics exam or PT stuff, etc. As one DI told me afterwards, they pay attention to everything...who's the first guy out the door when liberty sounds, etc. It really isn't easy switching from "liberty" mode back to training mode in the matter of 24 hrs (less really).

I think prior or non prior it's one of those things you can't really explain till you're there. I told our poolees before they shipped last month that there WILL be that point where you are going to want to quit (and you can). Well everyone laughs it off, but come this first liberty, and I got multiple calls saying oh my god, this sh*t is miserable! Goes to show you...for those poolees looking to go to RT or OCS, train hard and study now...it'll make your life just a little bit better as you go through the evaluation process.

DIBLO7
10-28-09, 07:56 PM
I think I was there the same time as ya'll, though I was over in in the trailers with Golf Company.

Geagle05
10-28-09, 08:06 PM
I think I was there the same time as ya'll, though I was over in in the trailers with Golf Company.

That's rough...lol, that was like 1.5 mi route step just to get to the chow hall!! Golf Co. was MECEP/bulldog right? Or that might have been India? Can't remember.

DIBLO7
10-28-09, 08:17 PM
Yeah, Golf is for the NROTC and the MECEPs. India was the first phase for the 6 week PLC guys.

True about the walk to the chow hall, we walked dang near 6 miles a day just for chow..

UMDStudent24
10-28-09, 09:16 PM
Yeah, Golf is for the NROTC and the MECEPs. India was the first phase for the 6 week PLC guys.

True about the walk to the chow hall, we walked dang near 6 miles a day just for chow..


Candidate bridge and that damn walk are my worst memories from OCS.

DIBLO7
10-28-09, 09:27 PM
HAHA that stupid bridge..Did you ever notice how quick it was for the Sgt Instructors to get off that thing, and go around on the train tracks? You think you hate it..they go over it for cycle after cycle..I have a MECEP buddy who was a Sgt Instructor there and he said it was one of his least favorite parts of being a Sgt Instructor..

teddyn
10-29-09, 12:06 AM
This is a really helpful thread, thanks a lot!

Do you think you could explain a bit more what you mean when you say that you saw a lot of people get kicked out for being poor leaders? What sorts of mistakes get you ticketed for that? (I mean for regular candidates, not just priors.)

UMDStudent24
10-29-09, 12:08 AM
HAHA that stupid bridge..Did you ever notice how quick it was for the Sgt Instructors to get off that thing, and go around on the train tracks? You think you hate it..they go over it for cycle after cycle..I have a MECEP buddy who was a Sgt Instructor there and he said it was one of his least favorite parts of being a Sgt Instructor..


I would go crazy. After the first week, only the duty Instructor ever crossed the bridge with us. Everyone else went across the tracks. I would've too. How long are their billets there? Is it 2+ years? I'd go bat-**** crazy.

Geagle05
10-29-09, 12:15 AM
I would go crazy. After the first week, only the duty Instructor ever crossed the bridge with us. Everyone else went across the tracks. I would've too. How long are their billets there? Is it 2+ years? I'd go bat-**** crazy.

Yeah...the permanent staff serve 2 year billets...I think just like any other drill field billet. But a lot of the staff were serving I guess you would say like a TAD billet there. Ie. MOAs for NROTC units would do a cycle at OCS before going to their NROTC units. Two of my SI's did that.

Haha, I remember thinking to myself in the beginning "why does everyone complain about this bridge...it's not so bad..." Fast forward a few weeks and I wanted to blow the sumb*tch up. But it was better than my one trip across the tracks. On the day before family day I went to medical and they put me on light duty...lol the solo trip across the tracks with 5 DIs was brutal!!!

Teddy...I'll write a response...stand fast!

UMDStudent24
10-29-09, 12:16 AM
Ah you bravo bastards lol...still thinking of the big pugil stick bout. I was the first fight, and you might remember, but I was the one that our DI made go warm up against the tree...lol.

Yeah, I grew up there, but really spent most of my time near the DC area. Went to Gonzaga HS. But my place in Annapolis was right off Spa creek and the bridge. I contracted out of the Fairfax OSS. I assume you were Hyattsville under Capt. P.? When's your comm date? Both our OSSs are doing an event at the O course at Ft. Meade next month. I might be there. Anyways, it's nice being done ain't it?! ;)

Being done feels wonderful, but I actually kinda miss it. It was a productive time. Capt. P is my OSO and I don't know my comm date yet. It will likely be in May or June.

As for the pugil sticks, it was quite a bout. I still can't believe the big dude from B Co that took on all 3 from A Co and won.

DIBLO7
10-29-09, 12:44 AM
This is a really helpful thread, thanks a lot!

Do you think you could explain a bit more what you mean when you say that you saw a lot of people get kicked out for being poor leaders? What sorts of mistakes get you ticketed for that? (I mean for regular candidates, not just priors.)

Three things quickly come to mind:

First, the goal of OCS is to train, evaluate, and screen potential officers for the Marine Corps, and because of this they don't want the candidate staff to act like drill instructors. It is fine the first couple of weeks, but then they make you turn off the "DI" mode of leadership. The problem is, at least for the Candidate Platoon Sergeant, is that they (the Sergeant Instructors) want things done like a DI, but say they don't. So it is a really fine line your dealing with. Its kind of a lose-lose situation unless your platoon really respects you and you don't have to turn up the "intensity" for lack of a better word.

Second, Peer evals are huge at OCS. Your Sergeant Instructors only see so much of whats going on. The peer evals give them a glimpse into how the different candidates really act. For example, there are some candidates that are "spotlight preformers" who do and say all the right things when the staff is around, but when they are gone are only looking out for #1. Your peers see this and will flame you for it, and only bad things come after that.

Finally, there are just those individuals that have absolutely zero command presence. Generally they get dropped within the first board or so because it is obvious that they have no business at OCS. At recruit training as long as an individual does not quit on himself he will pass and become a basically trained Marine. OCS is different, after graduation you are not a Pvt or a PFC that has time to learn the ropes. You're the boss. Because of that, if you don't have bearing, or are just generally lost in the sauce you're going to get a one way bus ticket back home. My MECEP buddy who just came from OCS as a Sergeant Instructor recently told me of a platoon of his that started with 47 Candidates and graduated 26. You wont see that at recruit training.

commdog7
10-29-09, 12:50 AM
Thanks for posting this. I'm a few months away from finishing my bachelor's and thinking about going the officer route (still undecided). I've heard that OCS was more physical than mental as boot camp is the opposite, but I never really understood the differences. I remember a female officer (who was a prior) once told me that if a bus was available to take them to Parris Island while at OCS, everyone would've jumped on.

UMDStudent24
10-29-09, 01:08 AM
I remember a female officer (who was a prior) once told me that if a bus was available to take them to Parris Island while at OCS, everyone would've jumped on.


HAHAHAHA! Around week 7/8 I know I would've. I struggled so much with the endurance course that I really thought I was gonna be sent home. The last thing I wanted was to get that far into it and get sent home for physical failure.

UMDStudent24
10-29-09, 01:10 AM
My MECEP buddy who just came from OCS as a Sergeant Instructor recently told me of a platoon of his that started with 47 Candidates and graduated 26. You wont see that at recruit training.

:scared: I had no idea that the attrition rate was that high in the MECEP classes.

Hell, I thought ours was high at graduating 44/65.

Geagle05
10-29-09, 03:02 AM
This is a really helpful thread, thanks a lot!

Do you think you could explain a bit more what you mean when you say that you saw a lot of people get kicked out for being poor leaders? What sorts of mistakes get you ticketed for that? (I mean for regular candidates, not just priors.)

Diblo pretty much hit everything that I was going to say. Although, I should probably mention that Diblo went through the Bulldog course which is for the NROTC/MECEP bubbas. I went through the PLC 10 week course which has a lot more civilians wanting to be Marines.

For the leadership tests (ie. your LRCs and SULEs) I think the big keys are to be loud, establish your command presence, and be confident (obviously all pretty much follows your command presence). Be able to adapt and overcome but pretty much I felt the golden rule was to just appear as confident as possible. Personal Example: I got a 99% in the first LRC and an 84% in LRC II. In my mind, I really did nothing different, but I do know that I tried to "smoothly" run through my frag o in the second LRC II. The evaluator said I didn't sound confident...I was more confident than the first go around!!! Appearance is everything!

Peer Evals. My pet peeves. Don't blue falcon your fellow candidates. I hate to say it, but OCS sort of breeds spotlight performing by nature. Yeah, you always try to do your best at all times, but I think every guy turns it on that much more when the staff is watching...you can see it. I think the best way to stay in favor with your peers is to follow your leadership principles. Be just with your peers and practice tact. Your staff knows when you are calling someone out just because they are there and your peers will think you're a dick for that. Criticize individually in private, criticize generally in public. Personal examples: myself and others in my squad absolutely speared the sh*t out of one candidate (a prior) in his peer eval. He was joking around during our "crucible" SULE II and leaning on trees. It was absoultely terrible. Yes some of us joke around at times (ie. me), but when it came down to it, we all put in 100% at game time. This guy made a joke about it...he absoutely did not deserve to be there (and it wasn't his first time). He got dropped week 9. Then again, peer evals by the later weeks are really not as meaningful as the first go around. It became hard to rate the people that you know should be there. Aside from one or two people, whether you were 1 or 8 was pretty much a toss up.

I'm kind of rambling on as it is 0400 lol, but bottom line is, be confident in your own abilities. We're all different and lead different ways, but you gotta be confident and decisive. When I was a poolee, I could almost guess who was going to get dropped over the various cycles and I was nearly always right. Like Diblo said, lack of command presence and being lost in the sauce are generally two main ways of getting your arse dropped for leadership. If what I am saying doesn't make sense, I suggest taking a look at your 14 leadership traits and reflecting on them. There's a reason they're there and that's what makes a good leader....Justice, Judgement, Decisiveness, Integrity, Dependability, Tact, Initiative, Endurance, Bearing, Unselfishness, Courage, Knowledge, Loyalty, Enthusiasm....when it all comes down to it...it is those traits which you will be screened and evaluated on for leadership at OCS. Lol...I'll edit in morning if this is too rambling. But honestly, it's really hard to explain here. You can't just read something and voila have leadership. When it's all said and done, you will know your potential when you are being trained, screened, and evaluated at OCS.

Geagle05
10-29-09, 03:15 AM
:scared: I had no idea that the attrition rate was that high in the MECEP classes.

Hell, I thought ours was high at graduating 44/65.

Ours was 40/67...could've been a little worse...can't remember. Commission by attrition!

Geagle05
10-29-09, 03:16 AM
:scared: I had no idea that the attrition rate was that high in the MECEP classes.

Hell, I thought ours was high at graduating 44/65.

Ours was 40/67...could've been a little worse...can't remember. Commission by attrition!:evilgrin:

Geagle05
10-29-09, 03:22 AM
Thanks for posting this. I'm a few months away from finishing my bachelor's and thinking about going the officer route (still undecided). I've heard that OCS was more physical than mental as boot camp is the opposite, but I never really understood the differences. I remember a female officer (who was a prior) once told me that if a bus was available to take them to Parris Island while at OCS, everyone would've jumped on.

Well as I said in my earlier post, I feel that OCS is more mental than physical. But I'm not a prior, and I think it's one of those to each his own things. I'm not sure of the breakdown, but I think it's probably even for those getting dropped for physical reasons (including NPQs) and everything else...

DIBLO7
10-29-09, 11:29 AM
:scared: I had no idea that the attrition rate was that high in the MECEP classes.

Hell, I thought ours was high at graduating 44/65.

The attrition rate is not as high in Golf, I think we dropped 8 total. The Marine I was talking about just started MECEP, last year he was a Sgt Instructor in some of the other Companies. The platoon he was telling me about what right when Col Mancini first got there.

You might have seen him running around a little bit this summer, GySgt Tyson is his name.

teddyn
10-29-09, 12:52 PM
Ok, thanks for answering my question. <br />
<br />
So the deal seems to be that you need to be vocal, giving clear instructions and checking up on all the people you're in charge of and to generally give off...

DIBLO7
10-29-09, 01:11 PM
There are several times throughout the cycle that you will be giving instructions just for the sake of it. That's just the nature of the beast.

But on that, while generally the other candidates do listen and do what they are supposed to do; but there are times where they are looking out for themselves.

Take for example you're the platoon sergeant and you're trying to get the whole platoon to do something, but there is one guy that doesn't have his gear marked so he is trying to finish that up. To him getting his gear marked is his priority, especially since the rest of the platoon will be fixing whatever the other issue is. Your job is to either (a) let him gaff you off and do what he wants, (b) force him to stop and help the platoon, (c) grab a couple other candidates to help him out and still get the other job done, or (d) none of the above. Depending on what you choose can have drastic repercussions on how the platoon sees you.

One important thing I noticed during my time there was this: When you first get there most of the candidates don't know each other and agree during the admin week that everyone will look out for one another, and this is good. However, as the training goes by and three or four of you are completely responsible for one of the candidates finishing anything you come to the realization that unlike recruit training you are about to become leaders of Marines. If numbnuts next to you cant even manage to mark his gear correctly how is he going to have the attention to detail to lead anyone? Now your outlook changes from lets hook everyone up to, holy crap this guy is going to get people killed.

I actually have lost some sleep at night because I feel responsible for one of our candidates graduating..he has no business being a Marine, let alone an officer of them..

Oh, and "verbal encouragements" will get you slammed so hard its not even funny. NEVER say anything along the lines of "good job guys" when you're walking around. Just take my word for it.

UMDStudent24
10-29-09, 06:57 PM
teddyn, <br />
<br />
Basically, you're going to have different experiences. When quality candidates are in charge, the platoon generally does what is supposed to. You will see candidates help other candidates...

Geagle05
10-29-09, 07:01 PM
There are several times throughout the cycle that you will be giving instructions just for the sake of it. That's just the nature of the beast.

But on that, while generally the other candidates do listen and do what they are supposed to do; but there are times where they are looking out for themselves.

Take for example you're the platoon sergeant and you're trying to get the whole platoon to do something, but there is one guy that doesn't have his gear marked so he is trying to finish that up. To him getting his gear marked is his priority, especially since the rest of the platoon will be fixing whatever the other issue is. Your job is to either (a) let him gaff you off and do what he wants, (b) force him to stop and help the platoon, (c) grab a couple other candidates to help him out and still get the other job done, or (d) none of the above. Depending on what you choose can have drastic repercussions on how the platoon sees you.

One important thing I noticed during my time there was this: When you first get there most of the candidates don't know each other and agree during the admin week that everyone will look out for one another, and this is good. However, as the training goes by and three or four of you are completely responsible for one of the candidates finishing anything you come to the realization that unlike recruit training you are about to become leaders of Marines. If numbnuts next to you cant even manage to mark his gear correctly how is he going to have the attention to detail to lead anyone? Now your outlook changes from lets hook everyone up to, holy crap this guy is going to get people killed.

I actually have lost some sleep at night because I feel responsible for one of our candidates graduating..he has no business being a Marine, let alone an officer of them..

Oh, and "verbal encouragements" will get you slammed so hard its not even funny. NEVER say anything along the lines of "good job guys" when you're walking around. Just take my word for it.

Or Lol, as my plt sgt explained it his Hispanic accent.. "no high five or good game...negative!"

Teddy, I wouldn't try to formalize it or think too hard about it. I mean it's good that you're getting a good idea of good things to do and not to do, but when you're down there things will be a blur. Just be confident in your abilities. Why do some guys not want to help their other candidates? Simply put, OCS can do some weird things to you. It can bring the best out of you and the worst. With barely any sleep combined with stress, sometimes even the best do things out of character. Everyday was a mental test to really put forth your best effort in all things. I was the front rack of the house, and admittedly I'm not the greatest with squaring away my trash. That just meant I had to be extra sharp everyday to avoid my SI's wrath. Good thing there are good candidates because some of my buddies would help me out, and I'd offer help in my strongpoints which was the knowledge and the PT. But yeah by wk 5, there is a lot of yelling and barking and sniping. It's a marathon...

Geagle05
10-29-09, 07:06 PM
Wow...that surprises me. That's a big deal. I mean certain things you realize they didn't care too much about, but lying on your crunch count? Man, like I said, the lack of sleep plus stress can...

UMDStudent24
10-29-09, 07:17 PM
I was his crunch partner. I didn't know what he reported because everyone who had less than 100 went up to the staff to report their scores. I realized he had to have lied a few days later when the PFT failures disappeared and he was still around. I knew he had a failing score because he told me how many pull-ups he had done, and I knew his run time because I crossed the line a few seconds before him. I knew something was up because I remember thinking he had to be borderline and I calculated what it was. It definitely wasn't passing.

He had to have lied about something. You can't misreport pull-ups, they count it right there. I heard him report his run. So, it could only be crunches. He also asked me to 'help out' on his crunch count before we started. Needless to say, this guy was not one of my favorites. I wish I'd reported him when I figured out what had happened.

Soon2ndLT
03-29-10, 10:46 PM
You were in Bravo Last summer??? I was with B/4 last summer

USMCPSU
04-21-10, 08:32 PM
Many of the guys in our plt were scoring in the 290+ range. While OCS has shifted more from running to Cross Fit/combat fitness type workouts, the bottom line is you still got to be in great shape.

R/s,

Geagles.

Can you explain, or someone, what you is meant by "cross fit/combat fitness type workouts"? all I've been told, or have read, is that all you do (PT wise, excluding O course and endurance course) in OCS is run ALL THE TIME! When I think of running, all I think about is running hills in CAMPEN. When I read this, I got the impression that OCS now doesn't do as many long runs? If you can give me some examples and how it fits into a training week that would be great. If i'm way off base in assuming that, let me know. I just want to know what to expect more of, long runs or this cross fitness stuff.

I went to Bootcamp is 2003, and got out in 2007 as a Corporal. Currently a JR @ Portland State University. Interested in putting in my package for a PLC class over summer 2011.

Soon2ndLT
04-21-10, 09:40 PM
what they are talking about is that the running is there but there are exercises during the run. There is a huge emphasis on combat fitness. When I was there last summer pull ups, ammo can press, and a lot of other things. That being said there is a couple long runs but it has switched over towards not just having a high PFT score but also being an overall top physical shape. hope that answers your question and good luck on submitting your package

USNAviator
04-21-10, 09:52 PM
what they are talking about is that the running is there but there are exercises during the run. There is a huge emphasis on combat fitness. When I was there last summer pull ups, ammo can press, and a lot of other things. That being said there is a couple long runs but it has switched over towards not just having a high PFT score but also being an overall top physical shape. hope that answers your question and good luck on submitting your package

Many years ago while the earth crust was cooling, I did PT at Quantico. I live about an hour south and try and get up there when I can.

Thanks for the friend invite Lt. If memory serves me correctly you had some sort of delay with receiving your O-1 bars. Has that been resolved? Are you now at TBS? If so how is it going?? Nothing like the Corps, you made the right choice!!

Good luck to you

Dan

Soon2ndLT
04-21-10, 10:07 PM
no sir it is mostly just the wait to enter TBS which i still do not know when that is happening. Right now I am pining my bars may 24th so its all a waiting game right now.

USNAviator
04-21-10, 10:27 PM
Don't worry Lt. ( you've earned the salute in my opinion) it will all work itself out. I understand the Corps has some sort of backlog problems at all ranks. Seem like some sort of cluster f$$k. lol

Dan

Soon2ndLT
04-21-10, 10:30 PM
well in my opinion just gives a whole new meaning to hurry up and wait lol

USMCPSU
04-21-10, 11:53 PM
what they are talking about is that the running is there but there are exercises during the run. There is a huge emphasis on combat fitness. When I was there last summer pull ups, ammo can press, and a lot of other things. That being said there is a couple long runs but it has switched over towards not just having a high PFT score but also being an overall top physical shape. hope that answers your question and good luck on submitting your package

Thanks. I was assuming it was something along those lines. Any recommendations outside of studying MC knowledge and working out a lot? I only ask because you were there recently, and i'm not going into OCS assuming it's going to be a "cake-walk" since i'm prior enlisted.

Soon2ndLT
04-22-10, 12:58 AM
my advice is bring a positive attitude. As a prior you will be looked at for leadership and guidance from the other candidates. While you have to be self-motivating, Sergeant Instructors (thats DI's at OCS) will try and ID the individuals, selfish, and other nasties and weed them out. Remember how to give the 5 paragraph order, and remember some of the basics knowledge that you learned at boot camp. Any knowledge that you have is always a good thing. But the biggest thing that I cannot stress enough is getting sleep. I have seen a lot of good candidates go down in flames in terms of the academics because they were just too tired and could not think. There is no reason for that because the academic exams are very easy.

Anyways good luck down there Marine, I'll be rooting for you on the other side.

Geagle05
04-22-10, 02:08 PM
Can you explain, or someone, what you is meant by "cross fit/combat fitness type workouts"? all I've been told, or have read, is that all you do (PT wise, excluding O course and endurance course) in OCS is run ALL THE TIME! When I think of running, all I think about is running hills in CAMPEN. When I read this, I got the impression that OCS now doesn't do as many long runs? If you can give me some examples and how it fits into a training week that would be great. If i'm way off base in assuming that, let me know. I just want to know what to expect more of, long runs or this cross fitness stuff.

I went to Bootcamp is 2003, and got out in 2007 as a Corporal. Currently a JR @ Portland State University. Interested in putting in my package for a PLC class over summer 2011.

Cpl.,

The running is not nearly the same as it was under Col. Chase. OCS used to be all about running. There were always Fartlek's for PT, but there were more of them more often. I have heard that the reason they switched it is that staff and candidates alike were getting broke.

With Col. Mancini and now Col. Jackson, the PT switched to more functional fitness as I mentioned before. Along with the usual fartlek's you can expect: Upper Body Development Course (sort of like the DI playground), Muscular Endurance Course (sort of like the UBD with some more running in between stations but not a fartlek), MCMAP drills (lots of fireman's carries and buddy drags), etc. I'd say the PT is still focused on running, and you still have to be a good runner to do well there physically. The longest run was a 5 mile timed individual run. The average run was probably 3 miles (it was a fartlek). Never been to CAMPEN, but from I hear from my west coast buddies, your hills are just as nasty. You shouldn't have a problem with the hills here in Quantico. I'd say PT is 4-5x a week but hard for me to remember. Just know you're not PTing everyday. So your average training week will be like:

Monday: Push Pull Press Abs (PPPAs) with 3 mile Fartlek
Tuesday: O Course
Wednesday: Rest (in terms of formal PT)
Thursday: MEC
Friday: PPPAs and 3 mile Fartlek
Saturday: UBD 2x and 3 mile Fartlek
Sunday: Rest

It may not be like that, but hopefully you can get an idea of what it looks like. As I said before, I'd still push to be a good runner or to maintain it if you are, but I'd also incorporate some Cross Fit stuff and even weights as well. Hope this helps.

V/r,

PS: Well it's been a long time coming, but I am finally commissioning soon on 1 May. Everyone's date got pushed back for whatever reason, so I'm just happy to have mine set. Just saying that if any of you motivators are in the DC area, you are welcome to come to the ceremony at 1400, MC Memorial. The honor would be mine.

USMCPSU
04-27-10, 03:03 PM
thanks a lot for the info Geagle05 and Soon2ndLT. Congratulations on your upcoming commission Geagle05. If you get a chance to get get stationed on Pendleton, I recommend it. The hills aren't fun, but you can't beat SoCal year round. Their is always something to do there. Twentynine Palms on the other hand, avoid at all costs. I spent 6 months their when Mojave Viper was getting started in late 2005...it was not enjoyable.

UMDStudent24
04-29-10, 12:13 PM
I'm supposed to pin the bars on August 28th. That might not happen now.

I'll know by May 20th. It sucks to not know.

flyby
04-29-10, 12:24 PM
All,

Does anyone know what the age cut-off is for OCS? I am prior service and was told that I am too old. I was told that prior service time does not 'subtract' from your age to put you under the age limit? I have been told otherwise as well. Does anyone here know? Thanks.

DIBLO7
04-29-10, 04:04 PM
Its generally 30, but it is waiverable.

USNAviator
04-29-10, 04:55 PM
All,

Does anyone know what the age cut-off is for OCS? I am prior service and was told that I am too old. I was told that prior service time does not 'subtract' from your age to put you under the age limit? I have been told otherwise as well. Does anyone here know? Thanks.

This site might help; http://www.ocs.usmc.mil/

Send them a email with your particulars. There is a contact tab on the right plus some good info on the left.

Good luck

Dan

Geagle05
05-02-10, 06:36 PM
I'm supposed to pin the bars on August 28th. That might not happen now.

I'll know by May 20th. It sucks to not know.

That is too bad. I know a bunch of candidates in the same situation. My date got pushed back as well and I graduated college in December. Trust me though, the time flies and it's all worth it. Semper Fi.

thezero
05-02-10, 08:01 PM
This helps a lot. There are quit a few Lt's around here that are prior service and a lot that aren't. They both have told us what OCS was like the biggest thing that I remember them saying is "It's like your MCT on steroids." I have thought of trying to go through the MECEP program but am unsure, especially if I would be eligible. But this will probably help me if I want to go or not.

Geagle05
05-02-10, 08:18 PM
thanks a lot for the info Geagle05 and Soon2ndLT. Congratulations on your upcoming commission Geagle05. If you get a chance to get get stationed on Pendleton, I recommend it. The hills aren't fun, but you can't beat SoCal year round. Their is always something to do there. Twentynine Palms on the other hand, avoid at all costs. I spent 6 months their when Mojave Viper was getting started in late 2005...it was not enjoyable.

No problem. Hope my info was useful. Yeah, I am so hoping for a west coast duty station, but like a lot of Marines I will probably get lovely Lejeune off the bat. I spent a year out in Cali one time, and it rained like once. Absolutely beautiful.

USMC-Fox
06-05-10, 01:24 PM
Sorry to necropost, but I just read through this entire thread. That's some good friggin' gouge, guys...thanks a lot! I have applied for MECEP this year (applied two years ago too, but obviously didn't get it). So I've got my fingers crossed! :usmc:

Capital M
06-08-10, 06:06 PM
Good luck Sgt

Kyle40Air
07-20-10, 06:01 PM
do i have a realistic possiblilty to get into the mecep program.. i leave for boot on october 18th and im going to be a reservist with the mos of 0651 (data network specialist). i scored a 90 on the asvab and 1520 on the SATs out of 2400 ... with a 3.0+ gpa in highschool... what are my possibliltys of getting into mecep

USMC-Fox
07-20-10, 06:16 PM
General Qualifications for the program are as follows:

Be an enlisted member of the Regular Marine Corps or Marine Corps Reserve assigned to the AR program.

Must be a Sergeant or above as of convening date of selection board.

At least 20 but not have reached 26 years of age by the projected beginning date of college if selected.

Must have a minimum of 3 years of active service on the convening date of the board.

SAT - minimum combined score of 1000 (math and critical reading with a minimum verbal category score of 400 from the same test

ACT - minimum composite score of 22

AFQT - minimum score of 74

Must be a high school grad. Non high school grads must have completed a minimum of two years high school and have successfully passed the General Education high school level tests.

I believe the SAT score requirement is based on the old 1600-point system though. These requirements change sometime from year to year, so just keep up with them. For example, this year they require that applicants have at least 3 college-level English credits, 3 college-level math or science credits, and 6 credits from any other college courses. That's because they did away with the MECEP prep school and BOOST, so this requirement will probably remain in the future.

Kyle40Air
07-21-10, 12:46 AM
i dont think its worth it if i need to be a sgt. shuld i just go to college after boot and gain my degree and go to an oso then to ocs

USMC-Fox
07-21-10, 04:33 AM
i dont think its worth it if i need to be a sgt. shuld i just go to college after boot and gain my degree and go to an oso then to ocs

That's not how it works. You can't "just go to college after boot". If becoming an officer is your goal, go to college instead of boot camp. If that's not a viable option and you go enlisted first, you're going to have to wait a while.

Kyle40Air
07-21-10, 10:17 AM
as a reservist im not able to go to college after boot, mct, and mos school... how is that not a viable option.

USMC-Fox
07-21-10, 10:20 AM
as a reservist im not able to go to college after boot, mct, and mos school... how is that not a viable option.

Oh, I didn't catch that you were going into the reserves. MECEP does not apply to the reserves, unless you are on AR. For drilling reservists, you need to look into Meritorious Commisioning Program - Reserves (MCP-R) or Reserve Enlisted Commissioning Program (RECP). I don't know a lot about those programs, so use Google. :)

Kyle40Air
07-21-10, 11:54 AM
Gotcha thanks Sergant

Geagle05
08-03-10, 11:10 PM
I am not familiar with the programs USMC-Fox mentioned, but I do know that all the prior reservists I know went through an OSO. Best bet is to use google like the Sgt. said as well as talk to an OSO. It's early on, but if it's a serious option, getting as much knowledge as you can will help you in the long run.

josephd
08-05-10, 01:24 PM
Oh, I didn't catch that you were going into the reserves. MECEP does not apply to the reserves, unless you are on AR. For drilling reservists, you need to look into Meritorious Commisioning Program - Reserves (MCP-R) or Reserve Enlisted Commissioning Program (RECP). I don't know a lot about those programs, so use Google. :)


these programs that you mentioned Sgt., from what I have been told, will get you a commission in the reserves as a limited/restricted duty officer.

IVIanOnTheIVIov
08-05-10, 01:58 PM
Great post. Very informative read. I actually put in for MECEP and got denied because of some ink on my arm. It's a shame but I plan on trying again someday.

Again, thanks for the post.

UMDStudent24
08-11-10, 07:20 AM
Great post. Very informative read. I actually put in for MECEP and got denied because of some ink on my arm. It's a shame but I plan on trying again someday.

Again, thanks for the post.


From my very limited prospective, it seems the Corps is cracking down on tattoos. In my office, prospective candidates are turned down all the time due to tattoos. Even/especially priors in many instances. I would think that when the backlog of people waiting on TBS is shored up, OCS will not be as over slotted and the tattoo issue might go away. That would be my guess anyway.

USMC-Fox
08-11-10, 08:01 AM
these programs that you mentioned Sgt., from what I have been told, will get you a commission in the reserves as a limited/restricted duty officer.

Negative. All lieutenants (and captains?) are considered reserve officers, even the ones on active duty. I don't know much about it; perhaps someone else here can explain it better. With either program would not be a limited duty officer.

Further reading. (http://www.*************/MilitaryCareers/Content/0,14556,MPDC_Options_Commissioning_Marine,00.html# RECP)

USMC-Fox
08-11-10, 08:07 AM
Sorry that link is broken. For some reason, the swear filter censored militarydotcom

josephd
08-16-10, 05:35 PM
Negative. All lieutenants (and captains?) are considered reserve officers, even the ones on active duty. I don't know much about it; perhaps someone else here can explain it better. With either program would not be a limited duty officer.

Further reading. (http://www.*************/MilitaryCareers/Content/0,14556,MPDC_Options_Commissioning_Marine,00.html# RECP)

roger....I actually just researched it a bit more and you are correct Sgt.

Geagle05
08-16-10, 10:00 PM
From my very limited prospective, it seems the Corps is cracking down on tattoos. In my office, prospective candidates are turned down all the time due to tattoos. Even/especially priors in many instances. I would think that when the backlog of people waiting on TBS is shored up, OCS will not be as over slotted and the tattoo issue might go away. That would be my guess anyway.

Obviously, it's probably a bit over our paygrade, but my guess is that it goes beyond there being too many lieutenants. From what I gather, it has to do with Marines being 'professional warriors' and having that 'professional image.' The tat policy has been in place well before when we went through OCS a year ago when the Corps was trying to expand its officer ranks. I would assume that it will remain in place until the next CMC overturns it. Can't say I agree, but I can't disagree, but I will say that I know some pretty stellar Marines that I hugely respect that can't be officers because of the tattoo policy...

gentry234
04-16-17, 06:25 PM
Does anyone have any input on what a tbs instructor coming from grunt life 0331 might do if he goes to be that? Also if it's a good duty and what the schedule is like?