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SwedishMarine
09-30-09, 07:36 PM
Greetings and Salutations Marines,

I was hoping that one of you could answer one of my questions regarding the Marine Corps Martial Arts Program. I know this kind of sounds dumb, but what is it, other than Martial Arts training. I got really interested when I heard this since I've been doing MMA myself ever since I was 9. Is there any future careers in MCMAP, or is MCMAP only for Boot and Specialty Training?

Thank You for your time, Marines.

BR34
09-30-09, 07:45 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Armbar_Technique_-_MCMAP.jpg

SwedishMarine
09-30-09, 07:47 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Armbar_Technique_-_MCMAP.jpg

Thank You Corporal, but I don't see how an Armbar answers my question.

hussaf
09-30-09, 08:30 PM
SwedishMarine,

There is a link to the MCMAP Wikipedia file in the "links" section below the picture. Or Google MCMAP. In fact, you can Youtube it as well....although that might lead to random Marines practicing jackas*ery as much as MCMAP. MCMAP is a pretty high profile program. If you look for it, you should be able to find out a lot.

SwedishMarine
09-30-09, 09:37 PM
Thank You Sergeant.
I've done so earlier, but all the information I found was very confusing to me.
I wanted to know how MCMAP is from Marines who have done it, which is pretty much every Marine since it's part of Boot. Thank You though, Sergeant, I will look further into this.

v Alucard
09-30-09, 10:53 PM
From lurking on these boards for quite some time, I have noticed that no one likes to answer questions "straight-up". Someone either complains about someones profile not being complete, or they just post a link or simply say "Google it". But, I digress. I'll help you out.

I'm a Marine Corps Martial Arts Instructor and I can honestly say that it is a pretty complex system. Although, if the Instructor is bad and he/she's just in it for board promotion purposes, then the Marines won't get much out of it. Most people complain that there isn't enough dynamic material in the curriculum, but again, that is all up to the Instructor. We have multiple techniques any many belts ranging from Tan to Black. All of these techniques come from Martial Arts such as Jiu-Jitsu, Aikido, and Muay Thai, just to name a few. To answer your other question, Recruit Training doesn't end a Marine's Martial Arts career...nor do you need to be Combat Arms or in a SOC. I am proof of this, considering I'm an Air-Winger with a Brown Belt (with Instructor Tab) and on my way to Black Belt.

Now, this program has a lot of weapons based techniques, so it is very off-putting to anyone interested in traditional martial arts. We do a lot of knife, baton, and rifle techniques with a few pistol disarming techniques thrown into the mix. Most people on the outside of the box probably think this program trains Marines to be insane fighters who can rarely be defeated, but they are quite wrong. Many Marines just go to Belt classes just so they can look good and get promoted quicker. However, there are Marines (like myself) who used MCMAP just to get a headstart on other, off-the-record training. I have been practicing Gracie Jiu-Jitsu for awhile, and I love to grapple, and this is only because of what I took from MCMAP.

Hope I answered your questions. You can also visit the Martial Arts Center of Excellence website for more information.

http://www.tecom.usmc.mil/mace

SwedishMarine
10-01-09, 01:41 AM
Thank You very much Corporal, this helped me out a lot and answered my questions exactly. I'm currently waiting for my Green Card, after that, it's off to MCRD :)
You reply just motivated me more to join the Corps, and I'm definitely looking forward to doing some Marine Corps Martial Arts in the future. Thank You very much Corporal, you've help me a lot, and saved me from hours of trying to understand MCMAP. Thank You for the link too, Corporal, I'll look into that.

Good Day to you, Corporal.

rufio14
10-01-09, 02:11 AM
The tan belt training is easy and if your already doing MMA then you won't be impressed in boot camp. But I'm sure once in the fleet and progressing in the belts it will be alot more intense. I wouldn't know I'm still a tan belt lol! As my combat instructor at MCT said...Tan Belt fo life! JK I'd like to move up :beer:

SwedishMarine
10-01-09, 05:46 PM
The tan belt training is easy and if your already doing MMA then you won't be impressed in boot camp. But I'm sure once in the fleet and progressing in the belts it will be alot more intense. I wouldn't know I'm still a tan belt lol! As my combat instructor at MCT said...Tan Belt fo life! JK I'd like to move up :beer:
Thank You Private First Class for your reply. Is there a MCMAP "Phase" like grass week or firing week, or is it practiced throughout Boot?

Thank You, PFC.

Lisa 23
10-01-09, 05:55 PM
Recruit Training Schedule

The Recruit Training Schedule Processing:
Recruits arrive on Parris Island, get the Welcome Aboard speech, clothing and gear issue, medical screening, perform the Initial Strength Test, and are introduced to their drill instructors.

Weeks 1-3:
Recruits receive instruction on military history, customs and courtesies, basic first aid, uniforms, and leadership and core values.
Recruits learn hand-to-hand combat skills through the Marine Corps Martial Arts Program (MCMAP), which is made up of various martial arts styles.

Week 4:
Swim qualification
There are four levels of swim/water survival qualification in recruit training. The Marines are an amphibious service, and water survival training is designed to increase our competence and survivability in an amphibious environment.


Week 5:
Initial Written Testing and Initial Drill
Rappel Tower/Gas Chamber

Week 6:
Grass week (rifle range)
The recruits learn the fundamentals of
Marine Corps marksmanship, sight in on
the targets and learn how to make adjustments to the M16 A2 service rifle.

Week 7:
Firing week (rifle range)
The recruits have three days to practice the KD course of fire, a pre-qualification day and a qualification day, firing the M16 A2 service rifle.

Week 8:
Team week
The recruits will spend the week working in various areas of Parris Island , maintaining the appearance of the Depot, and practicing for Final Drill.


Week 9:
A-Line/Basic Warrior Training
The recruits will conduct various exercises to begin developing basic field and combat skills. Some of the events they will execute are:
Day Movement Course
Firing at multiple targets
Firing at targets from unknown distances
Combat Shooting (Table 2)
Combat Endurance Course

Week 10:
Practical Application Evaluation

Week 11:
Final drill:
Recruits and Drill Instructors are evaluated on their knowledge and application of Marine Corps drill and rifle manual.
Written testing: Recruits are evaluated on their knowledge of basic military education.

Week 12:
Ceremony practices
Liberty Brief
Graduation

http://www.mcrdpi.usmc.mil/training/schedule.asp

Lisa 23
10-01-09, 06:10 PM
Structure & Belt System


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/7/74/MCMAP_Belt_Structure.png/300px-MCMAP_Belt_Structure.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:MCMAP_Belt_Structure.png)


The program uses an advancement system of colored belts similar to that of most martial arts. The different levels of belts are:

Tan belt, the lowest color belt and conducted during entry level training, signifies the basic understanding of the mental, physical, and character disciplines. It is the minimum requirement of all Marines with a training time of 27.5 hours and has no prerequisites. Recruits receive these belts after completion of a practical application test on all of the basic techniques of the Tan Belt.
Gray belt is the second belt attained after 39 hours of training. It signifies an intermediate understanding of the basic disciplines. The prerequisites for this belt are as follows: The Marine must complete the "Leading Marines" course from the Marine Corps Institute, and most instructors will require a report be completed on The Marine Raiders.
Green belt is the third belt, requiring 44 hours of training. This belt signifies understanding of the intermediate fundamentals of the different disciplines. This is the first belt level in which one can become an instructor, which allows him or her to teach tan and grey belt techniques with the power to award the appropriate belt. The prerequisites for this belt include a recommendation from reporting senior, and to be an instructor requires the Marine to be a Corporal or higher.
Brown Belt is the fourth belt level requiring 56.5 hours of training. It introduces Marines to the advanced fundamentals of each discipline. In addition, as with green belts, they may be certified as MAIs and teach tan through green techniques. Prerequisites for this belt include recommendation of reporting senior, rank of Corporal or higher (able to waiver to LCpl), and appropriate PMEs completed for rank (Such as Corporal's Course).
Black belt 1st degree is the highest belt color and requires 62.5 hours of supervised training. It signifies knowledge of the advanced fundamentals of the different disciplines. A 1st degree black belt instructor may teach fundamentals from tan to brown belt and award the appropriate belt. In addition, a black belt can become an instructor-trainer, which authorizes them to teach and award all belts, as well as teach and certify instructors. Prerequisites include recommendation of reporting senior, rank of Sergeant or above, and appropriate level of PME completed (such as Sergeant's Course.)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/9/99/MAIC_Black_Belt.jpg/200px-MAIC_Black_Belt.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:MAIC_Black_Belt.jpg)
An instructor-trainer displays his belt


There are an additional 5 degrees of black belt, with several of the same common prerequisites, including recommendation of reporting senior, appropriate level of PME completed, must be a current MAI or MAIT. Black belt 2nd degree to 6th degree signify that the holder is an authority in the Marine Corps Martial Arts Program. In addition to the above prerequisite, each belt also has its own rank requirements.

Black belt 2nd degree requires the rank of Sgt or above.
Black belt 3rd degree requires the rank of SSgt or above.
Black belt 4th degree requires the rank of GySgt for enlisted and Major or higher for officers.
Black belt 5th degree requires the rank of MSgt/1stSgt for enlisted and Major or higher for officers.
Black belt 6th degree requires the rank of MGySgt/SgtMaj for enlisted and LtCol or higher for officers.
Because the belts are worn with the Marine's Utility Uniform, the complete range of belt colors such as red, yellow or purple are excluded as a practical consideration. Once a Marine obtains his gray belt, he can attend an additional training course (such as those at the two Schoolz of Infantry) to become a martial arts instructor (secondary MOS 0916, formerly 8551). MCMAP instructors can train other Marines up to their current belt level, and certify Marines at one level below their current belt level. A green belt instructor can therefore certify others for tan and gray belts, a brown belt instructor can certify tan, gray, and green, and so on. The instructor status is signified by one vertical tan stripe on the MCMAP belt. A Marine must have attended at least the Martial Arts Instructor (MAI) course to advance beyond first degree black belt. The only one who can train a Marine to be an instructor are black belt Martial Arts Instructor-Trainers (MAIT). An MAIT's status is signified by a vertical red stripe on the MCMAP belt and a secondary MOS of 0917 (formerly 8552). To become an MAIT, a Marine must have already completed a local MAI course. The Marine then attends the MAIT course at the Martial Arts Center of Excellence in Marine Corps Base Quantico.
MCMAP techniques can be taught to other services and to foreign military members, and belts awarded to those who complete the course.

BR34
10-01-09, 07:06 PM
Thank You Corporal, but I don't see how an Armbar answers my question.

My bad, meant to post this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_Corps_Martial_Arts_Program

Tons of info.

SwedishMarine
10-01-09, 07:08 PM
Ah, thank you Corporal.
It seems someone else beat you to it.
Thank You Marines.

MintusMaximus
10-02-09, 05:49 AM
From lurking on these boards for quite some time, I have noticed that no one likes to answer questions "straight-up". Someone either complains about someones profile not being complete, or they just post a link or simply say "Google it". But, I digress. I'll help you out.

I'm a Marine Corps Martial Arts Instructor and I can honestly say that it is a pretty complex system. Although, if the Instructor is bad and he/she's just in it for board promotion purposes, then the Marines won't get much out of it. Most people complain that there isn't enough dynamic material in the curriculum, but again, that is all up to the Instructor. We have multiple techniques any many belts ranging from Tan to Black. All of these techniques come from Martial Arts such as Jiu-Jitsu, Aikido, and Muay Thai, just to name a few. To answer your other question, Recruit Training doesn't end a Marine's Martial Arts career...nor do you need to be Combat Arms or in a SOC. I am proof of this, considering I'm an Air-Winger with a Brown Belt (with Instructor Tab) and on my way to Black Belt.

Now, this program has a lot of weapons based techniques, so it is very off-putting to anyone interested in traditional martial arts. We do a lot of knife, baton, and rifle techniques with a few pistol disarming techniques thrown into the mix. Most people on the outside of the box probably think this program trains Marines to be insane fighters who can rarely be defeated, but they are quite wrong. Many Marines just go to Belt classes just so they can look good and get promoted quicker. However, there are Marines (like myself) who used MCMAP just to get a headstart on other, off-the-record training. I have been practicing Gracie Jiu-Jitsu for awhile, and I love to grapple, and this is only because of what I took from MCMAP.

Hope I answered your questions. You can also visit the Martial Arts Center of Excellence website for more information.

http://www.tecom.usmc.mil/mace


Complex system? MCMAP is actuallly fairly easy *technique wise*. The Combat Conditioning is the difficult part. Also finding time to train and finding a MAI to train you is tough at times. At the higher belts it gets even harder to find the right instructor... for instance I am lucky to have a Black belt MAI who tested me out for my Brown Belt, and a MAIT2 who is running a Black Belt course next week.

I do agree with you 100% that a lot of people don't get out of MCMAP what they should and it's the instructors fault. I was lucky to have a very motivating SSgt as my grey/green belt instructor.

The one thing I do complain about is all the grappling. Grappling IMO is so useless, especially for the system MCMAP is supposed to be. If you ntoice the syllabus doens't have Gomi platas, or Crucifixes... it wasn't meant to be an MMA fan boy thing... but alas that's what it's turned into.

... Another thing that ****es me off is people who say MCMAP is "gay, or useless." and they have a tan or a grey belt. That's like walking into a martial arts dojo and saying that this stuff won't work and being a white or yellow belt. Which is what tan/grey equate to... ok maybe grey is more around orange belt or junior purple.

Now that out of the way I will try to answer your question some more...

I have studied American kenpo, Judo, Tae Kwon do, Boxing, and Juijistu *hate JJ but it was part of my judo classes two nights of the week... >.<*

MCMAP has a strait forward neutral bo ... the basic warriro stance. You stand hea don with your opponent not canted to a 45 degree angle liek most other martial arts... or a 180 degree in point sparring. Thus creating a bigger target ... however! With ful combat load your arms are restricted and you have best movement with them out infront of you.

The strikes remind me of Judo strikes, with a few resembling Kenpo counter strikes. Fast, and aimed at soft muscles and weaker areas of the body, knees, throat, eyes ...etc

If you take anything away from MCMAP is my pinion it should eb the basic Tan belt strikes... Tan belt is like getting a free boxing class in essence. When you punch rotate your hip, keep your other hand up to protect your face, and pivot your foot to get extra reach and momentum. Snap back to your ready stance. BAM boxing 101 ... anyone who says that is 'useless' is retarded.

So take it for what it DOES give you. Not what it doens't have. It doens't have forms/kata however it does correlate to other Martial Arts.

Example... brown belt reaps,bent arm lock, and basic leg lock ... are almost identical to Set 1 of American judo.

MintusMaximus
10-02-09, 05:52 AM
From lurking on these boards for quite some time, I have noticed that no one likes to answer questions "straight-up". Someone either complains about someones profile not being complete, or they just post a link or simply say "Google it". But, I digress. I'll help you out.

I'm a Marine Corps Martial Arts Instructor and I can honestly say that it is a pretty complex system. Although, if the Instructor is bad and he/she's just in it for board promotion purposes, then the Marines won't get much out of it. Most people complain that there isn't enough dynamic material in the curriculum, but again, that is all up to the Instructor. We have multiple techniques any many belts ranging from Tan to Black. All of these techniques come from Martial Arts such as Jiu-Jitsu, Aikido, and Muay Thai, just to name a few. To answer your other question, Recruit Training doesn't end a Marine's Martial Arts career...nor do you need to be Combat Arms or in a SOC. I am proof of this, considering I'm an Air-Winger with a Brown Belt (with Instructor Tab) and on my way to Black Belt.

Now, this program has a lot of weapons based techniques, so it is very off-putting to anyone interested in traditional martial arts. We do a lot of knife, baton, and rifle techniques with a few pistol disarming techniques thrown into the mix. Most people on the outside of the box probably think this program trains Marines to be insane fighters who can rarely be defeated, but they are quite wrong. Many Marines just go to Belt classes just so they can look good and get promoted quicker. However, there are Marines (like myself) who used MCMAP just to get a headstart on other, off-the-record training. I have been practicing Gracie Jiu-Jitsu for awhile, and I love to grapple, and this is only because of what I took from MCMAP.

Hope I answered your questions. You can also visit the Martial Arts Center of Excellence website for more information.

http://www.tecom.usmc.mil/mace


Complex system? MCMAP is actually fairly easy *technique wise*. The Combat Conditioning is the difficult part. Also finding time to train and finding a MAI to train you is tough at times. At the higher belts it gets even harder to find the right instructor... for instance I am lucky to have a Black belt MAI who tested me out for my Brown Belt, and a MAIT2 who is running a Black Belt course next week.

I do agree with you 100% that a lot of people don't get out of MCMAP what they should and it's the instructors fault. I was lucky to have a very motivating SSgt as my grey/green belt instructor.

The one thing I do complain about is all the grappling. Grappling IMO is so useless, especially for the system MCMAP is supposed to be. If you notice the syllabus doesn't have Gomi platas, or Crucifixes... it wasn't meant to be an MMA fan boy thing... but alas that's what it's turned into.

... Another thing that ****es me off is people who say MCMAP is "gay, or useless." and they have a tan or a grey belt. That's like walking into a martial arts dojo and saying that this stuff won't work and being a white or yellow belt. Which is what tan/grey equate to... ok maybe grey is more around orange belt or junior purple.

Now that out of the way I will try to answer your question some more...

I have studied American kenpo, Judo, Tae Kwon do, Boxing, and Juijistu *hate JJ but it was part of my judo classes two nights of the week... >.<*

MCMAP has a strait forward neutral bo ... the basic warrior stance. You stand head don with your opponent not canted to a 45 degree angle like most other martial arts... or a 180 degree in point sparring. Thus creating a bigger target ... however! With full combat load your arms are restricted and you have best movement with them out infront of you.

The strikes remind me of Judo strikes, with a few resembling Kenpo counter strikes. Fast, and aimed at soft muscles and weaker areas of the body, knees, throat, eyes ...etc

If you take anything away from MCMAP is my pinion it should be the basic Tan belt strikes... Tan belt is like getting a free boxing class in essence. When you punch rotate your hip, keep your other hand up to protect your face, and pivot your foot to get extra reach and momentum. Snap back to your ready stance. BAM boxing 101 ... anyone who says that is 'useless' is retarded.

So take it for what it DOES give you. Not what it doesn't have. It doesn't have forms/kata however it does correlate to other Martial Arts.

Example... brown belt reaps,bent arm lock, and basic leg lock ... are almost identical to Set 1 of American judo.

SwedishMarine
10-02-09, 09:26 AM
Thank You very much for that detailed information Corporal.
By the sound of it, the Tan basic MCMAP training sounds like it's for people who has never done any Martial Arts before. If someone is better at it than others, will they get promoted with a higher belt? I've heard that there's a Rank/Belt system too, that only Marines with a certain Rank can achieve a certain belt. Anyways, for me, this sounds very interesting. I know that it's most likely not the "Cage/Ring" type of fighting, it's fighting for the "Field" right, for combat?

Again, Thank You Corporal, I am very curious to know more about MCMAP as it interests me a lot.

Lisa 23
10-02-09, 09:43 AM
Thank You very much for that detailed information Corporal.
By the sound of it, the Tan basic MCMAP training sounds like it's for people who has never done any Martial Arts before. If someone is better at it than others, will they get promoted with a higher belt? I've heard that there's a Rank/Belt system too, that only Marines with a certain Rank can achieve a certain belt. Anyways, for me, this sounds very interesting. I know that it's most likely not the "Cage/Ring" type of fighting, it's fighting for the "Field" right, for combat?

Again, Thank You Corporal, I am very curious to know more about MCMAP as it interests me a lot.

Look, I don't mean to sound like a smart a$$, but read the posts that I posted for you. It explains everything that you just asked in your quoted post above.
I can understand if you want first hand knowledge from the Marines who have their belts and what they went thru to obtain thier belts.
I know this is the Ask A Marine forum, but geeeeesh. Try doing alittle research on the internet on the MCMAP for yourself. If and when you can't find the answers you're looking for, then ask, but use the search bar first. You may find the answers to your questions by doing that also.

SwedishMarine
10-02-09, 04:52 PM
Thank You Private First Class, I will take your advice into consideration the next time I need to ask something. Thank You.