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StoneTheWeak
08-31-09, 04:44 PM
This is something that is always talked about back at the shop, and I think my instructor had it spot on. Marines who are overweight are always given hell. Even if they tape, and have a ridiculously low body fat percentage. For some reason, the Marine Corps wants Marines who can run 3 miles at the speed of lightning and do 20 pull ups. But if you're large and have a high muscle percentage, you just don't fit.


My question is this, what use is any of that in combat? Who here wants a guy who can run 3 miles in like 17 minutes, but can't carry you out of harms way if you become a casualty? I don't know anyone who is within weight standards that can carry me along with my gear and theirs. The average fighting load is like what, 75 pounds? I weigh 220, plus whatever the gear might be. If I get hit, and the closest guy to me happens to be that high PFT'er who weighs like 140 pounds, I'm fvkced.


Does anyone else feel this way? And is this kind of thinking out the door anytime soon? I'm trying to inspire a healthy discussion about Marine Corps fitness, not incite a riot.

Isrowei
08-31-09, 04:46 PM
This is why we now have the CFT.

Gunner 0313
08-31-09, 04:54 PM
:flag:I can imagine some of the scrawny guys will be dreading the CFT every year.

StoneTheWeak
08-31-09, 07:18 PM
I like the CFT, I think it's a step in the right direction. I think if they want it to be a real COMBAT fitness test, make us wear a combat load. Yeah, it would suck, but so what, if you want an accurate assessment, then do it right.


I just don't understand why the Marine Corps wants these scrawny ass guys. Or at least that's how it seems. My max weight is 232, I weigh 223, and I'm not even that big of a guy. If I were to hit my max and they taped me, I would still pass easy. But I'd have the SgtMaj up my ass about it.

ColdBlooded
08-31-09, 07:25 PM
It's not that they want scrawny guys. The Marine Corps wants men that are big and have definition plus a great PFT. If you look like the cartoon poster Marine (big chin, cut, big, and mean looking) then you are the perfect image that it is looking for. However, I have seen scrawny Marines who are strong as hell as well. Don't underestimate just by the cover of the book. You very well may be surprised.

JimmyK
08-31-09, 07:42 PM
I'm one of those "scrawny" guys, 6'1", 165 and do well on both the PFT and the CFT and honestly I'd rather do the CFT over the PFT. To me the PFT is 30 minutes of suck where as the CFT is over in about 10 minutes all together. A lot of people have been saying how the CFT is going to favor the bigger guys but I have yet to see where being big or muscular has helped anyone too much on a CFT. The same principals that the PFT always enforced, cardio and a bit of strength seem to have equal value on the CFT.

MD8724
08-31-09, 07:51 PM
I've never really seen people get too much **** for taping out, but that changes every command you go to.

Either way, I agree with you Stone. However, if you end up taping out and someone gives you ****, just wait until the CFT and when they start to give out do that moto yelling **** and embarrass them. "I know you can lift more than that, come on, blah"

Either way, thats just the way the Corps is man. Marines are all kinds of shapes and sizes. It can be hard to find one "standard" to hold them all too. Just gotta work with it. Besides, if you're not on BCP or whatever, then taping out doesn't hurt you. Who gives a **** if the SgtMaj chews you out. I know it can't be the first time, and sure won't be the last. Just agree, leave, and go about your day.

StoneTheWeak
08-31-09, 08:07 PM
If you've seen 'Inglorious Basterds'..... <br />
<br />
<br />
&quot;You'll be shot for this!!!&quot; <br />
&quot;No, I won't get shot. I'll probably get my ass chewed. I've gotten my ass chewed before.&quot; <br />
<br />
For me, the strength comes...

Petz
08-31-09, 08:10 PM
well the good news is your averaging your CFT and PFT now... so you have like a 250ish number... good job.

StoneTheWeak
08-31-09, 08:48 PM
When are they putting that into effect? I know they have been proposing new standards and everything for awhile. Does it start in the new Fiscal year?

jackson07
08-31-09, 09:11 PM
Read your Maradmins. They will answer your question for you.

flyby
08-31-09, 09:13 PM
In general, the height/weight standards need to be revised. Due to a variety of factors, humans have grown taller and weigh more on average then in the past. Of course those who are over body fat standards should not be given a pass. Nor should those who are over the max weight and under body fat standards be harassed! I was always over my max weight of 160lbs. w/a body fat of 9% and my Top would always give me stuff! Sad to see it has only gotten worse! And since the new and 'better' CFT is here why not add a distance swim to it? That could only make it a better gauge of our fitness. After all we are amphibious.

StoneTheWeak
08-31-09, 09:52 PM
If there was a distance swim, it just wouldn't be fair. Well, for everybody else :D

GREY MATTER
09-01-09, 02:45 AM
anyone have a listing of the current weight standards?
im curious how close i am to my max.

im 74" 220lbs in uniform

Zulu 36
09-01-09, 05:59 AM
When the **** has hit fan and the adrenalin is flowing, you'll be surprised what those skinny little runts can do.

The history books are replete with smaller guys hauling bigger guys to safety.

Petz
09-01-09, 06:23 AM
anyone have a listing of the current weight standards?
im curious how close i am to my max.

im 74" 220lbs in uniform


our max is 214lbs.

as for the weight standards... they changed them... the majority of hts have stayed the same but the odd numbers have had one pound removed while the evens have stayed the same... did this back in 2008.

Devildogg99
09-09-09, 06:26 PM
anyone have a listing of the current weight standards?
im curious how close i am to my max.

im 74" 220lbs in uniform

Not to be nitpicking but I will, go to your S-3 shop. By now as a Sgt you should know your max and min.

The new PFT/CFT first half and second half respectfully goes in effect 1 Jan.

I personally like the CFT, but I am not in favor of only doing one PFT a year. I think we should have 2 PFT's and a CFT. I'm sure people will complain but realistically they aren't that hard to do, even if you can't run 18 min and drag ass at 26 min. Its a good way to keep Marines in check, because as some of you know there are some over weight guys(fat not muscle) that should be fast tracked out or on BCP but because of "rank" they get out of it.

I was glad when the Corps did away with if you are fat and get a 1st class you are good to go. Kudos for being fat and still making a first class, but still you look heinous in chucks and you have buttons on the side of your cammies.

Petz
09-09-09, 06:51 PM
um, the Sgt has been out for a while, he needs to get his ducks in a row.

Don't fault him for not knowing it yet.

but to comment about the two PFTs, I think you are asking for too much out of NON-combat arms Marines to take more time away from their jobs to train for another fitness test.

if you allow them to train for the PFT then the CFT with a few months in between you will have healthy, cross-trained Marines. and if your NCOs do their job, fewer fat bodies.

You think it's the Staff's fault Marines get fat? as Sgt I blamed the Cpls for hanging out with fat bodies and letting them drink that case of bud heavy and eat all that fast food.

The only thing I couldn't do is make them responsible for that Marine and counsel him. I was told that it's not fair to the NCO.

Devildogg99
09-09-09, 07:24 PM
I don't think its the Staff's fault. I was saying there are fat Cpls out there just as many fat Gunnys.

So you are telling me 6 months to do a PFT and a CFT is really pushing it???

You don't need a gym to do upper body just use your own weight. As far as running well make time. 6 months is plenty of time to get ready for a PFT/CFT. Not everyone needs to work out everyday to stay in shape. Non-combat arms should have more time do to less time in the field and what not. Even combat arms should have time here and there, but they are probably doing stuff anyway which may be tiring but still exercies to an extent.

Its all about being dedicated and making time.


For example this E-3 in the shop today. We just found out he failed the PFT at his MOS school before graduation and they didn't start no paperwork. That was first half. According to him he can run fast and do 90 crunches but only 2 pullups. I had him go outside and do pullups and he struggled on the 2 and that was with kipping. I allowed him to kip just to watch what he does and well kipping period helps you out and he struggled with that. Well our squadron wide weigh-in is next week, which will probably do the trick anyway as he looks overweight. If he only had to do one PFT that one would have done him in. He might be a stud at the CFT, but failed the PFT and is now non-rec till next year. By at least having 2 PFT's a year he can work at it and improve, and maybe get a 1st class if he puts forth the effort. Now he can be recommended perhaps by passing the second half PFT, instead of waiting a whole year.

I'm saying I know some squadrons if you run a PFT in JAN and say not do so hot, and be like well I will run it again come April. They won't let you. Is it a dickhead move maybe, but still you "have done a pft" already.

Just watch come next year and it will be tweaked again guaranteed.

Accord
09-10-09, 12:23 AM
Um, being 220 pounds with a low bodyfat % and a lot of muscle is no excuse for running a bad PFT. "wahhh I lift weights so I should be exempt from USMC standards" shut the hell up. I'm 68 inches and 205 pounds of lean cut up muscle, and I can run a 300 PFT all day long any day of the week. Am I within height and weight standards? I have no friggen clue, all I know is that i'm a good ****ing Marine and because of that my chain of command doesn't give me crap about things like this.

The CFT is a joke, it's some made up B.S. to make pogues feel better about themselves, they can get a good score on the CFT so it makes them feel like a real Marine. I don't care who you are, if you can't get at least a near perfect score on the CFT then you suck at not just being a Marine, but you suck at life.

And you're a boot, when one of your senior Marines in your unit is talking to you about combat, maybe you should listen to them.

Accord
09-10-09, 12:34 AM
But to me to me the overall point is, the things they stress aren't really applicable in combat.

And you would know this how? You're a stupid boot. Shut up and don't talk about what is applicable in combat because you don't ****in know.



You won't run 3 miles in a combat zone.
Really? Again I ask, how do you know this? When I was in Afghanistan and we left the wire one day without air or arty on station, we ended up getting too deep into the **** and had to break contact and double time 3.5 clicks back to our OP because our QRF was already busy responding to another patrol.

If you suck at running 3 miles in a SKIVVIE SHIRT, SILKIES, AND RUNNING SHOES, then HOW THE HELL are you going to do it in full gear? Simple answer, YOU'RE NOT. A 227 is pathetic, and in my battalion you would be put on remedial for having that score, it may be considered 1st class in some pogue unit, but in my unit you'd be labeled a turd. Anyone who can't maintain a 250+ is put on remedial.

Wyoming
09-10-09, 12:38 AM
And you would know this how? You're a stupid boot. Shut up and don't talk about what is applicable in combat because you don't ****in know.


Really? Again I ask, how do you know this? When I was in Afghanistan and we left the wire one day without air or arty on station, we ended up getting too deep into the **** and had to break contact and double time 3.5 clicks back to our OP because our QRF was already busy responding to another patrol.

If you suck at running 3 miles in a SKIVVIE SHIRT, SILKIES, AND RUNNING SHOES, then HOW THE HELL are you going to do it in full gear? Simple answer, YOU'RE NOT. A 227 is pathetic, and in my battalion you would be put on remedial for having that score, it may be considered 1st class in some pogue unit, but in my unit you'd be labeled a turd. Anyone who can't maintain a 250+ is put on remedial.

Hehehehe. Get some John.

Accord
09-10-09, 12:45 AM
Hehehehe. Get some John.This is why I hate boots, all of them... they're all the same. All of them think they know everything and are the only ones who ever make any sense. Some boot sitting here talking about what is applicable in combat when he is still ****ting out that cheese and veggie omelet MRE he ate on the crucible... Please.

Zulu 36
09-10-09, 05:59 AM
I would imagine being overweight for your height, but with low body fat percentage, you could get a fat body waiver, but having a good PFT score goes with that.

I've said this before on another thread, I worked for a SSgt who looked like a 55-gallon drum on legs. His biceps were massive. He had low body fat percentage. However, he turned out a 300 PFT every time. So, he got waivers for weight easily.

I don't know how such a big man could run as fast as he could. But he did it all of the time.

Accord
09-10-09, 05:09 PM
John, I completely agree with the CFT. We just did our first CFT a few weeks ago. The Battalion CO was with us and hes like...this is retarded. Its exactly what you said, some POG in quantico sitting around whos like "Yeah, I think admin guys should carry ammo cans because they'll never have to do it in real life..."

Wait till you see the new running suits...its hillarious. You look at the entire III MEF and all the POG units are at like 80% -100% of their unit has been issued it, then you look at the grunt battalions, the arty battalions, the trackers, most are lucky to be at 7%. MY battalion and 3rd AAB have been issued....zero.

I hate CLBs/CLRs/etc... they're full of idiots just like the OP.
I've got the new running suit... I love it because I never wear cammies to work anymore.

samthomas
09-10-09, 05:22 PM
I'm 68 inches and 205 pounds of lean cut up muscle...

I hope not, that would be bad.

Petz
09-10-09, 09:28 PM
I've got the new running suit... I love it because I never wear cammies to work anymore.

you know right...

but to mention your above posts, I think you make good points but your seem angry. Not all non-combat arms units are retarded, most may not make sense to a victor unit but hey, that's not our job.

I would agree with you about the pog making the CFT, but even if they had gunners (real gunners) helping them they had to design it so EVERY Marine is capable of doing it.

So to say that it's a waste of time and retarded... yes, to say it should never have been designed and implemented... NO.

I think it will open up eyes to many weak ass non-combat arms Marines who are starting to pick up security jobs that were traditionally victor unit billets and who are moving gear and doing small operations in the ****.

we as pogs need to have a base line on the rigors of combat as you guys see it so we can self improve.

to mention to the SSgt, I've heard of units (in HI) who did a PFT one week then the next (new FY) run another PFT. so if you sucked at the first you'll suck at the second. I'm sure the same can be for the CFT but if you suck at one and not the other at least you'll have a higher average.

it's all relative really, but I think the non-conformists out there NEED to be made to PT, it's easy to say that everyone should PT on their own, but in reality it's not going to happen. That is one of the reasons we have stupid ass unit PT in the morning, personally I'd do all mine in the evening.

but we got another year or two before we get a new CMC and new rules to be implemented Corps wide, so if you're new, hope you get used to change...

Accord
09-10-09, 09:42 PM
You make good points. I'm not angry, I just hate it when smartass boots fresh off the island talk about things like combat, as if they've been.

If the only PT you do is unit PT, then you're going to be a turd. The only reason I can run a 300 PFT is because I PT on my own everyday and have a solid routine that I follow. If I just did unit PT and nothing else I bet I wouldn't even run a first class.

RNelson
12-18-09, 02:50 PM
So I get back from a 10 month deployment Iraq and less than 2 weeks later I have a CFT, now I was slightly concerned due the the fact the second half of my deployment had ended early and I had been training to do a PFT. Now comes the irony I ended up doing pretty well on the CFT its self, actually scored a 297 on that where as I am a 260-70 PFT runner. For those of you who think little wiery guys can't do well on the CFT I am a 5'1" 110 lb Midget Marine got stuck carrying a 145lb Marine but still finished in 30 seconds less than my minimum time. I feel that with all of these training requierments it is all on the individual to maintain those fitness standards. It can be done on both ends height and weight should never be an excuse for an individuals sucess or failure.

Wolverine1971
12-18-09, 05:00 PM
I was always sucking wind because of my build and could never keep up with the skinny guys but I could crank out 55 pullups so it didn't bother me. I was not built to be a runner. I rather stand and fight then run. LOL