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Sgt Leprechaun
08-18-09, 11:34 PM
The first posting didn't look right, so am re-doing it:


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USMC "DOG TAGS" 1916-2002
ID Tags "Dog Tags" - Basic shapes


There exists 6 basic shapes of USMC "Dog Tags" :

A - circular perforated at one side, size : of a silver half-dollar
B - circular perforated at each side, size : of a silver half-dollar
C - oval perforated at one side, size : width 1.25 inches (3.18 cm), length 1.5 inches (3,81 cm)
D - oval perforated at each side, size : width 1.25 inches (3.18 cm), length 1.5 inches (3,81 cm)
E - rectangular with rounded end and notch, size : width 1.125 inches (2,86 cm), length 2 inches (5,08 cm)
F - rectangular with rounded end, size : width 1.125 inches (2,86 cm), length 2 inches (5,08 cm)

http://mujweb.atlas.cz/kultura/usmc/imaservice/tagall.jpg





gs"ID Tags "Dog Tags" - shape"A"and "B" ( 1916 - 1921 ) - shape"A"and "B" ( 1916 - 1921 )


First officially prescribed – 1916




Material used – Aluminum
Number of Dog Tags – 1 or 2
Dog Tag chain – woven cloth cord, wire in cloth sleeve and etc.
Dog Tag marking – etched and stamped
Side one – stamped personal data
Side two –

Empty or
Etched print of the right index finger or
AEF serial number ( since 1918 ) *



* Notice - The Marines assigned to AEF (American Expeditionary Forces ) in France during WW1 used Army "Dod Tags" of shape "A" and "B". In Marine Corps Manual of 1921 is stated : .... has authorized the use of the Marine Corps identification tag until the exhaustion of present supply, after which the tag in the Navy regulations ( tag of "C" shape ) will be used. In the inter war period and at the beginning of the WW2 the dog tags were not standard issue. In Marine Corps manual of 1940 is stated " .... ID tags will be issued "in the time of war or other national emergency ....".



Stamped information : Officer’s Dog Tag

Initials and Surname
Rank and date of appointment in numerals denoting month, day and year (e.g.


1.5.16.)
Company ( since 1917 ) - e.g. 95 CO.
Regiment or Corps ( since 1917 ) - e.g. 6 REG.
USMC
Stamped information : Enlisted Dog Tag

Initials and Surname
Date of enlistment in numerals denoting month, day and year


- e.g. 7. 1. 18.
Rank ( since 1917 ) - e.g. PVT.
Company ( since 1917 ) - e.g. 95 CO.
Regiment or Corps ( since 1917 ) - e.g. 6. REG.
USMC
Examples of stamped information :


http://mujweb.atlas.cz/kultura/usmc/imaservice/tag1916.jpg



ID Tags "Dog Tags" - shape "C" and "D" ( 1921 - early 1950's )


First officially prescribed – 1921 ( originally U.S. NAVY "Dog Tag" )
Material used – Monel metal * or corrosion-resistant material ( brass, stainless steel and etc. )
Number of Dog Tags – 2
Dog Tag chain – Monel wire in cotton sleeve, Monel chain, steel cable in plastic covering and etc.
Dog Tag marking – early issue examples etched **, later one stamped

Dog tag of shape "C" - first prescribed – in Marine Corps manual of 1921 ( perforated at one end )
Dog tag of shape "D" - first prescribed – in Marine Corps manual of 1940 ( perforated at each end )

* Notice - Monel metal is corrosion-resistant alloy of nickel and copper, with small content of iron and manganese

** Notice - The early issue Dog Tag had on side one etched hand-written personal data and on side two etched right index print.


Stamped information : this is general format, "Dog Tag" format can differ from unit to unit, see picture bellow which shows very different forms of "Dog Tag" marking ( from 1941 to 1945 ) I had possibility to survey, "L. DIAMONDS" dog tag is example of etched marking and the data are marked in USN manner ( see U.S.M.C. position on tag ).

Line 1 : Surname
Line 2 : First Name & Initials ( or just Initials )
Line 3 :

Officer's rank or
Man's Service number - 12345, 123456 or 1234567 and three spaces to the right Religion preferred in prefixes only : C - for CATHOLIC, H - for HEBREW and P - for PROTESTANT

Line 4 : Date of tetanus shot application with T prefix - T - 8 / 40 and Blood Type - A, B, AB or O
Line 5 : USMC or USMCR
Examples of etched ( only L. DIAMOND's dog tag ) and stamped information :

http://mujweb.atlas.cz/kultura/usmc/imaservice/tag1920.jpg

Sgt Leprechaun
08-18-09, 11:36 PM
ID Tags "Dog Tags" - shape "E" ( 1940 - 1959 )

First officially prescribed – 1940 ( originally U.S. ARMY "Dog Tag" M-1940 ) *
Material used – Monel metal, Brass or Stainless steel
Number of Dog Tags – 2
Dog Tag chain – Stainless steel chain - beaded style
Dog Tag marking – stamped
* Notice - during WW2 the standard issue "Dog Tags" used by USMC were tags of "C" and "D" shape, the wider use of U.S. ARMY M-1940 "Dog Tag" by Marines started after the end of WW2. On most examples of M-1940 USMC and USN "Dog tags" I had possibility to survey is not stamped date of Tetanus shot application, which was stamped to standard tags of "C" and "D" shape during WW2 and thus these tags should be post or very late WW2 issue. After war M-1940 tag continuously replaced the tags of "C" and "D" shape.

Stamped information : this is general format, "Dog Tag" format can differ from unit to unit

Line 1 : Surname
Line 2 : First Name & Initials ( or just Initials )
Line 3 :

Man's Service number - 12345, 123456 or 1234567
Blood Type - A, B, AB or O
the prefix "BT - " (Blood Type) was also used (see picture bellow)

Line 4 : USMC or USMCR
Line 5 : Religion preferred

in prefixes only : C - for CATHOLIC, H - for HEBREW and P - for PROTESTANT or
in whole words : CATHOLIC, HEBREW, PROTESTANT

Examples of stamped information :

http://mujweb.atlas.cz/kultura/usmc/imaservice/tag1940.jpg


ID Tags "Dog Tags" - shape "F" ( 1959 - 2002 )

First officially prescribed – 1959 (same for all Armed Services)
Material used – Stainless steel
Number of Dog Tags – 2
Dog Tag chain – Stainless steel chain - beaded style
Dog Tag marking – stamped

Stamped information : this is general format, "Dog Tag" format can differ from unit to unit

Line 1 : Surname
Line 2 : First Name & Initials ( or just Initials )
Line 3 :

Man's Service number - 12345, 123456 or 1234567 ( used till 1965 ) or
SSN - Social Security Number - 123 45 6789 ( used since since 1965 ) and
Blood Type - A, B, AB or O and Rhesus factor -

Line 4 : USMC or USMCR and Gas mask size - XS, S, M, L, XL
Line 5 : Religion preferred

in whole words : BAPTIST, CATHOLIC, EPISCOPAL, HEBREW, PROTESTANT and etc.

Examples of stamped information :

http://mujweb.atlas.cz/kultura/usmc/imaservice/tag1959.jpg
COPYRIGHT 2001/2002 JAROSLAV JOCHMAN

GIrene
08-22-09, 12:18 AM
Your Type C's and D's were most common in WW2 and in the 20's-30's the Old Salts would have had their right (IIRC) thumbprint acid etched into the back of one of the tags. There's a relatively simple process you can use to emulate that today with repro tags... I didn't cover mine with an adequate amount of paint so they not only etched my print but mussed up the stamping, I'll have to give it another shot later. They were issued with a white cotton string but this was quickly dirtied, dyed, or replaced with a chunk of leather or a Boondocker lace.

More info:
http://www.ww2rationtechnologies.com/milart.jpg



So come WW2 the "Old Breed" would have yet another distinguishing mark to set them apart.


Thanks for sharing more Marine History!

Rocky C
08-22-09, 07:44 AM
Sgt. Lep,
Another GREAT Marine Corps History Thread.
Keep em coming Brother.
Semper Fi,
Rocky

SgtThrasher
08-22-09, 08:00 AM
Very interesting how the dog tags have evolved.We had rubber borders added to the Vietnam era dog tags to silence them.I hope they had a similar product for the WW-11 and Korean conflict Marines.

Sgt Leprechaun
08-22-09, 05:31 PM
Thanks guys. Glad you are enjoying them!

I still wear rubber borders on my current tags, and had a complete plastic cover for the one's I had in the Corps.

I've never seen rubber bordered tags from that era, but that doesn't mean a thing, they probably figured something out.

Supersquishy
08-22-09, 05:39 PM
I heard the notch in the vietnam era tags were for the machine to stamp them properly, not the morbid common myth correct?

Sgt Leprechaun
08-22-09, 06:08 PM
Correct.

FistFu68
08-22-09, 06:48 PM
:evilgrin: I wore 1 laced in my Left Boot,the other round My neck w/St.Michael Medallion handed down from family,Silenced with OD.Duct tape instead of Chain used Parachute Cord.:evilgrin: :iwo:

junior1972
12-25-09, 10:15 PM
Gentlemen

I would like a little help please. My Grandfather died a couple of years ago and I found his dog tags today. I always knew that my Grandfather served in the Marines and was always told that I needed "4 in the core." I do not know much else about his service though. I do believe that his service was in the mid 1940's.

His dog tags read:

First Name
Middle Name
Last Name
Service #
MCR A P

I must say that I am a little confused beacuse the tag does not read USMC or USMCR as indicated above. I assume that the MCR indicates that he was a Marine Core Reservist, although I never realized that he was - I always thought that he was enlisted. Am I correct in my interpretation?

Thank you.

DanM
12-25-09, 10:50 PM
I believe the military didn't start to use the SSN until late 1969,not 1965 as stated above.

Sgt Leprechaun
12-26-09, 05:30 PM
Gentlemen

I would like a little help please. My Grandfather died a couple of years ago and I found his dog tags today. I always knew that my Grandfather served in the Marines and was always told that I needed "4 in the core." I do not know much else about his service though. I do believe that his service was in the mid 1940's.

His dog tags read:

First Name
Middle Name
Last Name
Service #
MCR A P

I must say that I am a little confused beacuse the tag does not read USMC or USMCR as indicated above. I assume that the MCR indicates that he was a Marine Core Reservist, although I never realized that he was - I always thought that he was enlisted. Am I correct in my interpretation?

Thank you.

Is the tag round, or more of an 'oval' shape? Does it have an impression of a fingerprint on the reverse? This will help us date the tag.

You can PM me with his information and I can attempt to do some research for you. A photo of the tag would help, also.

junior1972
12-26-09, 08:46 PM
Thank you, Sgt Leprechaun.

Based on the description above, they appear to be of the "D" shape. They are "oval" and perforated on both ends. The measurements match the descriptions above as well. There is no finger print etched on the reverse side.

junior1972
12-26-09, 08:58 PM
Sgt Leprechaun

I have PM'd you his tag information. Any information that you can give me would be greatly appreciated.

Sgt Leprechaun
12-26-09, 09:03 PM
Got it. Working...

I'm guessing that the last two letters are blood type. But it doesn't seem to 'jive' with the standard information.

rboyton
04-17-14, 05:41 PM
I just was given one of the 2 dog tags that my dad wore in the Marines. He served during the Korean Conflict (your #E above time frame). I've already found out about the notch in the tag. Then I had read what the format was during that period. However, his dog tags are as follows:
first name
middle name
last name
service #
USMC-SS A P

I know A=blood type, P=Protestant. Not sure on the SS. But from the samples I saw, his dog tag is not the correct format, yet, these are his original tags. My brother has the other one.

Could you clarify this confusion please. Thank you

Rocky C
04-18-14, 05:30 PM
The only thing I can think of is that he lost his original ones and they were in a hurry to replace them, wrong plates and the S is the gas mask size with a mistake on the double S.

I hope a member of this forum that is a Korean War Veteran will see this post and maybe shed some knowledge for you.

I will try and contact one for you but they are far and few now as they are in there 80's.

I will do by best to help you.

Can you post a pic with the personnal info blacked out ?

rboyton
04-18-14, 07:58 PM
Let's see if this works. 27408

Rocky C
04-19-14, 10:16 AM
That worked great, thank you. I hope someone can shed some light on the SS issue. I am stumped. Like I said The only thing I can think of is the double S mistake because that is where the gas mask size should be.

rboyton
04-19-14, 12:56 PM
Well, I did order his military records a few weeks ago, still waiting on them. I do know he went to Baker's School. The rest I'll find out when I go through his files.

DanM
04-20-14, 01:18 AM
Possible explaination here , http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/7935-dog-tags-styles-and-examples-part-1/page-5.Maybe someone has the reference book in the post.

m14ed
04-20-14, 03:08 AM
ss = selective service....

he stepped into the draft
"Lucky Man"

rboyton
04-20-14, 08:55 PM
Thanks DanM for the link. I went through all 23 pages and it didn't really answer my question on the format of my dad's I.D. tags. I found one "round" one with the name format as his:
First Name
Middle Name
Last Name

I honestly couldn't tell you if these are remakes. They were with his military papers. Oh hummm

Rocky C
04-21-14, 08:48 AM
Ed, the Selective Service would make sense since there was a draft for Korea but it does not fit the format for the " E " dog tag time frame.

m14ed
04-21-14, 01:01 PM
I see that too Rock...

Consider though

the tag is probibly not original issue either..
IE:

((((first name
((((middle name
((((last name
service #
USMC-SS A P

I know A=blood type, P=Protestant. Not sure on the SS. But from the samples I saw, his dog tag is not the correct format, yet, these are his original tags. My brother has the other one.

Could you clarify this confusion please. Thank you
.................................................. .................................
Dollars to donuts ROCK..

it isn't his original ID Tag,

PERHAPS they may be REPLACEMENT TAGS
for lost tags made by someone who didn't know
LAST/FIRST/MIDDLE initial.

rboyton
04-21-14, 01:29 PM
m14ed....I wish I could ask my dad, but he's been gone since '89. So, would you by chance know "when" this format may have originated? I'm just wondering, when he went from Active to Reserve, that maybe that's when they might have been replaced. That would've been around '53-'54.

thanks

DanM
04-21-14, 02:18 PM
There are a number of sites which state the "standard" format was not always followed.

Rocky C
04-21-14, 04:30 PM
True Ed. For the name thing being backwards I was thinking perhaps he lost his original ones and had then made at an army/navy surplus store and the kid just asked his name and didn't know how to format it.

Who knows ???

rboyton
04-21-14, 04:39 PM
Ok Rocky, another question than.....when did Army/Navy Surplus stores come about? We grew up in the country, had to go miles to a "town". Never recall a surplus store until I came to CA in '86. Hummm.....just love them questions :angel:

Rocky C
04-21-14, 04:46 PM
Oh, years after he might have lost them. I think they opened in the early 60's.
Could have had them remade anytime after that.

You really got us stumped on this one :)

We are really trying hard for you :thumbup:.

It's a Marine Thing :)

m14ed
04-22-14, 02:49 AM
I wish I could ask my dad,

thanks



IT doesn't matter to us.
Hear earned the "TITLE"
BEFORE he got the ID Tags.........

Draft was a fact of life

rboyton
04-22-14, 12:11 PM
Marines must be special, my mom married 3 of them ;) Although the first one was a boxer and he boxed more then his opponents, then 20+ years with my dad, and another 20+ years with the 3rd Marine :D

Guess I'll put my Research Librarian skills to work tonight and see if I can find that last question somewhere for y'all.

Rocky C
04-22-14, 03:57 PM
:thumbup:. Yes we are special :) Did you marry a Marine ?.

You said y'all. Do they say that in Caly now ? I know they don't say it in New York.

What was the last question ? :)

rboyton
04-22-14, 11:45 PM
I say it when I'm in NY ;) I'll be there this summer. Yes, me and some others say y'all in Southern Cali :D

No Marines for me, sorry. One enlisted (2 tours in Vietnam), One Officer, a wannabe Marine (he was in the Young Marines, a junior form of Marine ROTC or boy scouts) and now another enlisted (all Army).

Rocky C
04-23-14, 06:26 AM
3 husbands all army ? Thank God your Dad was a Marine !!!.

What did you find out in your research for the dog tags ?

rboyton
04-23-14, 12:10 PM
I work in an Academic Library and had a bunch of students doing research...hopefully tonight I'll be able to sit for a spell to work on that question ;)

rboyton
04-23-14, 12:12 PM
Have you guys heard of this site: marines dot **************** dot com ? I joined it a few days ago and I've been creating a "shadowbox" for my dad. It's pretty neat.

Sorry, it takes out the URL, don't know how to put it in other than separate it from the "dots"

Argh, I give up. The ** is all one word (together we served)

Rocky C
04-23-14, 04:52 PM
Yes, a lot of the members here belong to differant sites and that one for sure.

rboyton
04-23-14, 06:15 PM
Okay, here's what I found:
http://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?path=/prelim@title50/title50a/node546&edition=prelim (http://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?path=/prelim%40title50/title50a/node546&edition=prelim)

and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_surplus

if you click on "the world's biggest clearance sale" it'll take you to a Google article in Popular Mechanics.

Rocky C
04-24-14, 11:00 AM
No not like that. I store like this that are all over the country that reproduce dog tags. That is what we are referring to.

http://www.armynavyshop.com/

rboyton
04-24-14, 11:25 AM
Yes Rocky, it was about the dog tags, but my question did relate to it...when did the Military Surplus stores come about. At first I'd have to say that the machines that did the dog tags were not included in the surplus, most of it was either machinery, cooking supplies or anything in largely bulk usage. Most likely due to the increased number of units deployed and now war was over and they couldn't find places for everything. So, I'm guessing that dog tag surplus stamps may have been a few years after that....so yes, it was quite possible that my father "could" have lost his and had them remade.....OR, as one of the posts mentions that it was the format used by the person who made them for my dad and others during their enlistments.

Rocky C
04-24-14, 11:34 AM
Could be either of the two.

I'm going to go with a remake for now. I'm not giving up on this :)

rboyton
04-24-14, 05:42 PM
I'm wondering than, how many different types of machines were used in making dog tags and were their formats changeable within one machine?!?

Rocky C
04-24-14, 06:08 PM
There are dozens of differant ones now but here is a picture of one from the Marine Corps Museum on display and yes they were interchangeable for differant formats.


http://ts4.mm.bing.net/th?&id=HN.608004220604845826&w=300&h=300&c=0&pid=1.9&rs=0&p=0

rboyton
04-24-14, 07:46 PM
Ah ha.....so if someone thought they knew what they were doing and weren't sufficiently trained in format, they could've made whatever they wanted....I see now ;)