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William Hardy
08-02-09, 07:59 AM
Many of you were getting off the topic in another thread....
Let's start a new one here

What do you think about criminals..prisons...repeat offenders...capital punishment.....parole?

sparkie
08-02-09, 08:30 AM
Criminals,,,Non persons. Prisons,,too many illegals. Repeat offenders,,, removal from society permantly. Capitol punishment,,under used, and too damm slow. Parole,,pay the price in prision,,no parole. What's done is done.

Trucrimsongold
08-02-09, 09:25 AM
criminals: there needs to be truth in sentencing by the judges. The problem is that all judges are former defense lawyers. More truth in sentencing equals less criminals.
prison: they need to take away any form of tv taxpayers paid for college and all computer use by inmates. Punishment should be just that. Also if a prisoner gets out of line in front of others the guards thould have the right to render them unconsious with either electricity or an impact weapon, otherwise there is no deterent from bad behaviour and that endangers everyone in the prison to include the prisoners themselves.
Repeat Offenders: again would not exist as much with "truth in sentencing". You can thank judges and lawyers for this fact.
Capital Punishment: all for it. just needs to be carried out faster. Less tax payers money spent the better.

Phantom Blooper
08-02-09, 10:04 AM
Capital Punishment....Kill them all as quick as they killed the victim.

With the advent of DNA now as soon as it it is proven....kill them the same way they murdered!

Some are not guilty in incarceration...but it doesn't take ten years to figure it out.

If you do the crime...do the time.


Prison is a good thing...keeps more dickheads off the streets.

Parole..... if done your man given time and are reformed(SIC) then it is up to you and your maker when the reaper comes for your azz.:evilgrin:

Big Jim
08-02-09, 10:07 AM
Many of you were getting off the topic in another thread....
Let's start a new one here

What do you think about criminals..prisons...repeat offenders...capital punishment.....parole?

I am a Corrections Major......which is the Chief of Security at the Mansfield Correctional Institution in Mansfield, Ohio. Any questions ...just ask....we are a close to maximum security prison and we used to house death row before they moved it to the new Supermax prison in Youngstown. I have seen the same inmate return under different prison numbers 7 different times.....!!

sparkie
08-02-09, 10:13 AM
I am a Corrections Major......which is the Chief of Security at the Mansfield Correctional Institution in Mansfield, Ohio. Any questions ...just ask....we are a close to maximum security prison and we used to house death row before they moved it to the new Supermax prison in Youngstown.

How do feel about feeding and entertaining em fot 12 years?
{By the way, I grew up in Canton, neighbor}.

William Hardy
08-02-09, 10:19 AM
I did some studying of criminals and the psychological and sociological aspects of this topic. Bottom line....capital punishment is the only viable solution to repeat offenders of the most violent...

Big Jim
08-02-09, 10:24 AM
How do feel about feeding and entertaining em fot 12 years?
{By the way, I grew up in Canton, neighbor}.

I don't feel anything about them being here....I try to stay out of that aspect of the convict's personal information. Although I do have access I find that if I do know what the sh!thead did to get in there....it affects my judgement as to treat him as any other inmate when it comes time for him to need my help in any way. But, thats also my job to feel that way, too. I do hate those scum of the earth that caused so many people so much pain. Sometimes....and its rare....I do actually get to do what I really want to when an inmate thinks he can assault me or another staff member who is with me. THEN ITS ON....!!! LOL....!!

Big Jim
08-02-09, 10:26 AM
I LIKE THE WAY YOU THINK....!!! LOL <br />
<br />
:thumbup::!:

Big Jim
08-02-09, 10:39 AM
Hardcore criminals are the ones who usually commit capital crimes and have graduated from a repeat offender. Thats what you're talking about ...I assume and what kind of criminals everyone wants dead. But the low level criminals...the ones who are on their first steps past 1st-timer......still have the potential to be rehabilitated. Here in Ohio we do believe in Rehabilitation but the inmate must realize that they must embrace this opportunity. I, too, have taken course upon course on criminal behavior and criminology and abnormal behavior and the various catalysts thereof. What I have learned.....if the inmate does not embrace this rehabilitation available to them.....they are completely lost. And it doesn't matter on their origin, race, creed, color or religion or even financial status. They would be stuck in the cycle of the prison life where their is the constant presence of a structured life. Such as numerous daily counts.....a list of rules that must be obeyed or the inmate will be held accountable in this environment for their actions.

Grant you, there are many cracks in the prison and it is a flawed system at best....but its the only one we have. I, too, believe in capital punishment....hell, I think we should bring back public hanging to deter some of the crimes....!!! But I see lives that come in my prison that are destined for lethal injection....then I also see lives that need so much help. Its a fine line.

William Hardy
08-02-09, 10:39 AM
Can you tell that I am not a bleeding heart liberal? Nor am I an ultra conservative right winger either. I would like a society like the one I grew up in where I could go anywhere in town when I was 6, play all day, and my parents never had to worry about me. I hate the idea that when I had my young grandsons with me, I had to keep them where I could see them...never did know who was waiting to kidnap or hurt them. Sad sad world... I just want some peace of mind and if getting rid of a prison full of criminals will do it, so be it. For those of you who want to throw some religious passages at me,....read what God did to entire cities...pillar of salt and all that....If I come on a bit strong, it's only because I am outraged at the criminal side of our country.

Big Jim
08-02-09, 10:45 AM
Can you tell that I am not a bleeding heart liberal? Nor am I an ultra conservative right winger either. I would like a society like the one I grew up in where I could go anywhere in town when I was 6, play all day, and my parents never had to worry about me. I hate the idea that when I had my young grandsons with me, I had to keep them where I could see them...never did know who was waiting to kidnap or hurt them. Sad sad world... I just want some peace of mind and if getting rid of a prison full of criminals will do it, so be it. For those of you who want to throw some religious passages at me,....read what God did to entire cities...pillar of salt and all that....If I come on a bit strong, it's only because I am outraged at the criminal side of our country.


No you're not a bleeding heart lib....LOL...maybe a little conservative....but I like that too. It is sad, my friend....cause those safe days of where neighborly values preside over Mayberry....are just gone. I grew up in a little town just like you did.....and I see what the world has become....I just deal with it and try not to think about it so much or it will bother me. Thats some good advice buddy. BUt I miss those days too.

William Hardy
08-02-09, 10:49 AM
Hardcore criminals are the ones who usually commit capital crimes and have graduated from a repeat offender. Thats what you're talking about ...I assume and what kind of criminals everyone wants dead. But the low level criminals...the ones who are on their first steps past 1st-timer......still have the potential to be rehabilitated. Here in Ohio we do believe in Rehabilitation but the inmate must realize that they must embrace this opportunity. I, too, have taken course upon course on criminal behavior and criminology and abnormal behavior and the various catalysts thereof. What I have learned.....if the inmate does not embrace this rehabilitation available to them.....they are completely lost. And it doesn't matter on their origin, race, creed, color or religion or even financial status. They would be stuck in the cycle of the prison life where their is the constant presence of a structured life. Such as numerous daily counts.....a list of rules that must be obeyed or the inmate will be held accountable in this environment for their actions.

Grant you, there are many cracks in the prison and it is a flawed system at best....but its the only one we have. I, too, believe in capital punishment....hell, I think we should bring back public hanging to deter some of the crimes....!!! But I see lives that come in my prison that are destined for lethal injection....then I also see lives that need so much help. Its a fine line.

You are correct, I do mean hard core..
People can change if they want to and first time offenders must have the motivation to change. If we are not tough on criminals, the first timers see not real threat and are more likely to commit the crime. I also understand that there are classes of crime. I am talking about those crimes that cause considerable pain for others like the murderers and drug dealers. While the idots who commit forgery or credit card fraud may be a pain the inte butt, they don't qualify for capital punishment. I guess you could say it sort of falls into your classes of prisons..The ones in the "BIG" house are the ones I am talking about.

Everyone in law enforcement and the prison systems have my upmost respect for the job you are doing.

Big Jim
08-02-09, 10:50 AM
You are correct, I do mean hard core..
People can change if they want to and first time offenders must have the motivation to change. If we are not tough on criminals, the first timers see not real threat and are more likely to commit the crime. I also understand that there are classes of crime. I am talking about those crimes that cause considerable pain for others like the murderers and drug dealers. While the idots who commit forgery or credit card fraud may be a pain the inte butt, they don't qualify for capital punishment. I guess you could say it sort of falls into your classes of prisons..The ones in the "BIG" house are the ones I am talking about.

Everyone in law enforcement and the prison systems have my upmost respect for the job you are doing.


I sincerely appreciate that, Gunny....SEMPER FI.....

Zulu 36
08-02-09, 12:12 PM
I am a Corrections Major......which is the Chief of Security at the Mansfield Correctional Institution in Mansfield, Ohio. Any questions ...just ask....we are a close to maximum security prison and we used to house death row before they moved it to the new Supermax prison in Youngstown. I have seen the same inmate return under different prison numbers 7 different times.....!!

I'm not surprised. In Michigan, prison inmates keep the same number, they just get a different letter ahead of the number for each trip to the slam. I helped arrest a guy that had a "K" number (11 trips to prison). We were giving him his "L" trip. Of course he had many other arrests for misdemeanor crimes that only sent him to county slammers.

Admittedly, his convictions were for non-violent property and/or drug crimes, and he was a cooperative and even courteous prisoner (he knew the game well). But personally, I still think that is ridiculous. He shouldn't have seen the light of day past his "E" trip.

I heard of a guy who had a "P" number, but he wasn't arrested at my department, so I can't be for certain if it was true. Good chance it was true though.

Big Jim
08-02-09, 04:38 PM
I'm not surprised. In Michigan, prison inmates keep the same number, they just get a different letter ahead of the number for each trip to the slam. I helped arrest a guy that had a "K" number (11 trips to prison). We were giving him his "L" trip. Of course he had many other arrests for misdemeanor crimes that only sent him to county slammers.

Admittedly, his convictions were for non-violent property and/or drug crimes, and he was a cooperative and even courteous prisoner (he knew the game well). But personally, I still think that is ridiculous. He shouldn't have seen the light of day past his "E" trip.

I heard of a guy who had a "P" number, but he wasn't arrested at my department, so I can't be for certain if it was true. Good chance it was true though.


Yeah I remember....we do some Critical Incident Mangement training with them as well as Wisconsin and Kentucky's correction systems. Ohio's Critical Incident Management of the Incident Command System is top of the line. Its the same system the Law Enforcement task force used when 9/11 happened. Michegan doesn't have very many prisons in it if I remember correcly....it might be Wisconsin too....I forget. But Ohio has 31 operating state prisons making money. They even closed down 2 prisons to save some money!! Thats not includng the county and city jails!! Prison is a big business here in Ohio.

Gary Hall
08-02-09, 06:02 PM
As ignorant as I am, even I can see that the "intelligent ones" that run (ruin) this country are spending too much money and in the wrong ways. Do you suppose the Country could cut down just a tad on the lying, stealing and cheating, just for a while? Then in my view, we could invest some effort in a brand new approach: Promote responsibility rather than irresponsibility (I wants my rights!!) Specifically, in 1947, the USMC had only 74,000 Marines, coming off WWII wherein we had briefly a 16 million superb Military, which included 6 full Marine Divisions. And I need to point out here that at that time Texas Prisons paid their own way, they were self sustaining, all prisoners labored (worked). You can go back in time and watch the old newsreels about what was going on in Texas Prisons: Prisoners lined up in the cotton fields in single rows, with hoes and with mounted guards on horseback with shot guns, and here we went chopping cotton by the numbers. It was glorious and we need it again. During this time (early 1960's) I was working as a driller on a US Drilling Rig (they were still fashionable at that time, the politicos had not yet run all of them out of the Country). I hired a new hand one day and as we shook hands I noticed his hand felt like the bark on an Oak Tree. Without thinking I remarked "Man, did you just get out of the big house? " He replied, " .. yessir, I just got out of Huntsville." He knew how to work and we got along fine. I miss him. Marines & "Intelligent Ones" I believe in the old ways. This bull feces of political correctness (introduced by George HW ) and Conflict Resolution now being peddled in the Churches (for big money), check me out on this, is about as desirable to me as another dose of the clapp. Gary Hall, Tyler. (Don't hesitate to feces-can this Marines, I can handle lots of rejection), I'm used to it.

jetdawgg
08-02-09, 06:39 PM
How about a new approach?

Education and real equal opportunity? Maybe that will really reduce the need for the Prison Industrial Complex (PIC):usmc:

A lot people are in jail for economic reasons a lot in part due to poor education and that poor education leads to many unequal opportunities.

William Hardy
08-02-09, 06:57 PM
There you are JD! Now explain yourself...
My comments above are for those currently in the system...
What are your thoughts about keeping out future potential criminals out of prison?
I am all in favor of preventing future criminals from being created. What specifically would do you think we can do.

Once that line is crossed, I'm a different person as you might tell by my previous comments.
But I am more than willing to listen to what you or anyone has to say about the prevention of crime, especially among the kids. I work with kids and it is sad to say that I can see the little criminals already. How do I reach them? It's a small percent, but I know their parents, siblings, their other relatives, and where they live and their standard of living. I have not been very sucessful in saving them...their lives outside of my realm of influence is more important to them than school. I hate to lose even one of them, but many are already in prison. Several have over dosed and died. I need anything that can be used..

jetdawgg
08-02-09, 07:24 PM
Back in the 90's when I lived in NYC, I was a volunteer for a community Organization.

We used consistency, cultural and educational adventures, family meetings, reading and play acting. Most of all we used care and concern. The program worked so well I won an award for volunteering from Mayor Giuliani no less in 1996.

When I go home, I sometimes see the young men and women now. Most have grown into responsible adults including LEO's. Most are college educated, most are married with families.

There is always going to be the one or two that does not take the extra step to maintain what it takes to overcome the hurdles. All of the students were from the very last edge of society or the social ladder.

It just goes to show that if you have the drive you can get it done. I was one of the few volunteers that went to those same schools that they attended or even worse than they attended.

This element allowed me to reach them a bit differently and perhaps a bit deeper. I had to gain their trust by showing up each and every Saturday morning during the school year.

It was tough on me as I was working in Minn during the week and getting back to NYC late on Fridays (lol), but worth all that I put into that program.

Again, when I see those students today they run up to me and tell me things about how much they appreciated the effort and time I put into constructing their lives then.

I don't know the answers here, but I can only say what worked in this instance. I think sharing that common background was a tremendous help.:usmc:

Big Jim
08-02-09, 09:41 PM
There you are JD! Now explain yourself...
My comments above are for those currently in the system...
What are your thoughts about keeping out future potential criminals out of prison?
I am all in favor of preventing future criminals from being created. What specifically would do you think we can do.

Once that line is crossed, I'm a different person as you might tell by my previous comments.
But I am more than willing to listen to what you or anyone has to say about the prevention of crime, especially among the kids. I work with kids and it is sad to say that I can see the little criminals already. How do I reach them? It's a small percent, but I know their parents, siblings, their other relatives, and where they live and their standard of living. I have not been very sucessful in saving them...their lives outside of my realm of influence is more important to them than school. I hate to lose even one of them, but many are already in prison. Several have over dosed and died. I need anything that can be used..


JD is right Gunny. Jobs and the worth of accomplishing something that they've never done before in their lives is needed with the young people that are headed to prison nowadays. When I was a Correction Officer I used to supervise inmate work crews....and alot of them have never even seen an honest day's work before, especially the inner city kids whom no one even notices. That's what is really sad, too.

But those kids achieve self worth through accomplishment of positive reinforcement. No, I didn't get all wishy-washy but I did say "good-job" when one was merited and deserved. They ate it up!! When they eventually got out of prison, they came back and told me that they have always liked wokring on my gang and they remembered that part of their stint in prison where I, of all people, gave them respect and humane treatment and for being fair with them. I always told them they must have earned it if thats what I said, cause even I know I can be one mean sum-bich at times! LOL....they just need to be a part of the productive society. I have even ran across ex-inmates who were successful in their lives after prison. But I know you can reach some kids on a personal level by just being a firm, fair and consistent type of man with them. They can understand that and adhere to the structure and learn from it. If you even just reach one...its worth it.

jetdawgg
08-03-09, 05:56 AM
JD is right Gunny. Jobs and the worth of accomplishing something that they've never done before in their lives is needed with the young people that are headed to prison nowadays. When I was a Correction Officer I used to supervise inmate work crews....and alot of them have never even seen an honest day's work before, especially the inner city kids whom no one even notices. That's what is really sad, too.

But those kids achieve self worth through accomplishment of positive reinforcement. No, I didn't get all wishy-washy but I did say "good-job" when one was merited and deserved. They ate it up!! When they eventually got out of prison, they came back and told me that they have always liked wokring on my gang and they remembered that part of their stint in prison where I, of all people, gave them respect and humane treatment and for being fair with them. I always told them they must have earned it if thats what I said, cause even I know I can be one mean sum-bich at times! LOL....they just need to be a part of the productive society. I have even ran across ex-inmates who were successful in their lives after prison. But I know you can reach some kids on a personal level by just being a firm, fair and consistent type of man with them. They can understand that and adhere to the structure and learn from it. If you even just reach one...its worth it.

If all these young people get is attention form those that will mean them no good, then they will end up no good. A little attention from a positive influence may go a long way to keeping someone straight.

Just think if we paid some of the money we send to the PIC to do the social work that wis mentioned here. This country, maybe, just maybe a little better off:usmc:

charm1110
08-03-09, 02:52 PM
This is a very interesting thread!
I agree with much of what's been written here concerning repeat violent offenders, the way I relate to prevention is I currently have a nephew who I consider at- risk for a less than honourable future he at 15 has already been involved in drug use, theft, and recently lost his father a lifelong criminal who spent over half his life in prison. His mother is clueless in so many ways and after long discussions within the family he is now at my wifes parents house and I got him working for me a couple of weeks ago early evenings under my direct supervision, so far he's doing good and I've heard he's acting better at home. I know he likes the money but I hope he learns to have some pride and a sense of worth in himself. I don't want to see him doing time like his father did!

Semper Fi...:flag:

Big Jim
08-03-09, 02:58 PM
This is a very interesting thread!
I agree with much of what's been written here concerning repeat violent offenders, the way I relate to prevention is I currently have a nephew who I consider at- risk for a less than honourable future he at 15 has already been involved in drug use, theft, and recently lost his father a lifelong criminal who spent over half his life in prison. His mother is clueless in so many ways and after long discussions within the family he is now at my wifes parents house and I got him working for me a couple of weeks ago early evenings under my direct supervision, so far he's doing good and I've heard he's acting better at home. I know he likes the money but I hope he learns to have some pride and a sense of worth in himself. I don't want to see him doing time like his father did!

Semper Fi...:flag:

Keep up the good work with him.....you sound like you have connected with him in a way that he definitely needed. Positive reinforcement goes a long way and does alot to build up a good kids' character and makes him want to do more of what makes him feel that self worth. That's all he needs to make him want to stay on the straight and narrow road of a productive life within our societies and its also the same thing that will keep him out of prison. Have you talked with him about maybe joining our beloved Corp yet? He may want to do it.

William Hardy
08-03-09, 03:54 PM
Hey..I expected JD here..as a matter of fact I told JD that I would start this thread. I value his opinions...he's made some excellent remarks in other threads.
Some merit to what you are saying JD, that's why I like your opinions..keeps a thinking man honest and an honest man thinking.

One of the basic questions psychologist and sociologist have been arguing about for a long time is the "nature vs. nurture" idea. Is a baby born with a "blank slate" and can be nurtured to be good, or will that baby be born with what some call instincts or the genes inherited from a parent and turn out bad anyway. I really wish I could support the nurture side more, but I see nature win out more often. Ever see the studies about twins separated when they are young and how both usually turn out to be the same later in life when they are united? Working in the school system, I see it more often than not that the kid will end up just like their parents even when they are taken away by the state and placed in good foster homes. It is because of my experience, what I have seen, that makes me sad that nurture doesn't work so well. If a child inherits genes from the "good" parent, there is a good chance that you can reach them..in lots of cases that I know of, they just turn out fine, but I have seen young children do OK just to turn bad in their teen years. Can't help it JD...give me a hand..I try to help the kids every year as they go through my class...I give each of them respect and treat them like they are Class A students...until they get into serious trouble...I normally get along with them and even into adulthood, but the vast majority still end up in court. It's hard to tell them they need a good education and teach them the good old American work ethic when they have more money in their pockets from selling drugs than you and I do? I try, that's all I can do for now. Give me something to try and I will JD..that's why I'm in the schools...
SF

charm1110
08-03-09, 04:45 PM
Keep up the good work with him.....you sound like you have connected with him in a way that he definitely needed. Positive reinforcement goes a long way and does alot to build up a good kids' character and makes him want to do more of what makes him feel that self worth. That's all he needs to make him want to stay on the straight and narrow road of a productive life within our societies and its also the same thing that will keep him out of prison. Have you talked with him about maybe joining our beloved Corp yet? He may want to do it.

Thanks Big Jim,
I don't know how life will turn out for him I hope and pray for the best but being that he's family I need to do more than pray and try to put a positive action and example in his life. I hope for his sake it helps.

I'm not sure if nature outwieghs nurture in this case but all I've (we've) got to work with is the nurture aspect so I will do my best for those that I can.

Semper Fi...:flag:

Big Jim
08-03-09, 06:11 PM
Hey..I expected JD here..as a matter of fact I told JD that I would start this thread. I value his opinions...he's made some excellent remarks in other threads.
Some merit to what you are saying JD, that's why I like your opinions..keeps a thinking man honest and an honest man thinking.

One of the basic questions psychologist and sociologist have been arguing about for a long time is the "nature vs. nurture" idea. Is a baby born with a "blank slate" and can be nurtured to be good, or will that baby be born with what some call instincts or the genes inherited from a parent and turn out bad anyway. I really wish I could support the nurture side more, but I see nature win out more often. Ever see the studies about twins separated when they are young and how both usually turn out to be the same later in life when they are united? Working in the school system, I see it more often than not that the kid will end up just like their parents even when they are taken away by the state and placed in good foster homes. It is because of my experience, what I have seen, that makes me sad that nurture doesn't work so well. If a child inherits genes from the "good" parent, there is a good chance that you can reach them..in lots of cases that I know of, they just turn out fine, but I have seen young children do OK just to turn bad in their teen years. Can't help it JD...give me a hand..I try to help the kids every year as they go through my class...I give each of them respect and treat them like they are Class A students...until they get into serious trouble...I normally get along with them and even into adulthood, but the vast majority still end up in court. It's hard to tell them they need a good education and teach them the good old American work ethic when they have more money in their pockets from selling drugs than you and I do? I try, that's all I can do for now. Give me something to try and I will JD..that's why I'm in the schools...
SF

All you can do is try my friend.......that's all you can do. I happen to believe in the "blank slate" theory better than the nuture the existing person theory. A kid will learn anything that they see and emulate what they believe to be the cool thing......I've seen it too many times. But if you can reach a kid...and even more than one....you're doing a fantastic job, Gunny. I truly mean that. But....the sad fact remains.....you can't help anyone who doesn't want to be helped. That includes kids and teenagers. Even as young as 6 and 7 years old I have seen kids who all they know how to do is lie and steal. Those are the kids who need reached and sadly....some of them never will be reached and are destined to a life in and out of prison.....mostly in though. Keep doing your best Gunny.....reach and save the ones you can. Thats all anyone can do.

Phantom Blooper
08-03-09, 06:27 PM
Jim, what is the average age in your prison system that can benefit with intervention....not asking about the lifers that are destined for death,but a kid that is a first timer?:evilgrin:

Big Jim
08-03-09, 08:39 PM
Jim, what is the average age in your prison system that can benefit with intervention....not asking about the lifers that are destined for death,but a kid that is a first timer?:evilgrin:

Interventions aren't done in Ohio's prison systems. The Ohio Department of Rehabilitation and Correction offers the programs that instill that rehabilitation to long timers only. First offenders are usually "flat-timers", meaning they get a finite number of months or years to serve and can sometimes get out early for good behavior or depending on the severity of their crime are offered "shock-probation" and are sometimes placed under house arrest if their sentence wasn't very long. But those first timers are usually kids in their late teens to early twenties. But by the time they hit prison....all opportunities for an intervention have left. The only thing left for them to do is their time sentence. Only rehabilitation or time served is the only way out. Alot of the inmates just get caught up in drugs and start stealing, robbing or dealing to maintain their habits. Crimes having to do anything with drugs number in the 80 to 90 percent in Ohio's prison system. Its frikkin crazy here with drugs.

charm1110
08-04-09, 12:57 PM
..... Crimes having to do anything with drugs number in the 80 to 90 percent in Ohio's prison system. Its frikkin crazy here with drugs.

I'm thinking it's probably the same everywhere, with most crimes being drug related..maybe we need Capital Punishment for dealers when caught period. no minimum amount or number of offenses just stick 'em in the arm ..(once convicted of course). Just a thought!

Semper Fi...:flag:

jetdawgg
08-04-09, 02:04 PM
Hey..I expected JD here..as a matter of fact I told JD that I would start this thread. I value his opinions...he's made some excellent remarks in other threads.
Some merit to what you are saying JD, that's why I like your opinions..keeps a thinking man honest and an honest man thinking.

One of the basic questions psychologist and sociologist have been arguing about for a long time is the "nature vs. nurture" idea. Is a baby born with a "blank slate" and can be nurtured to be good, or will that baby be born with what some call instincts or the genes inherited from a parent and turn out bad anyway. I really wish I could support the nurture side more, but I see nature win out more often. Ever see the studies about twins separated when they are young and how both usually turn out to be the same later in life when they are united? Working in the school system, I see it more often than not that the kid will end up just like their parents even when they are taken away by the state and placed in good foster homes. It is because of my experience, what I have seen, that makes me sad that nurture doesn't work so well. If a child inherits genes from the "good" parent, there is a good chance that you can reach them..in lots of cases that I know of, they just turn out fine, but I have seen young children do OK just to turn bad in their teen years. Can't help it JD...give me a hand..I try to help the kids every year as they go through my class...I give each of them respect and treat them like they are Class A students...until they get into serious trouble...I normally get along with them and even into adulthood, but the vast majority still end up in court. It's hard to tell them they need a good education and teach them the good old American work ethic when they have more money in their pockets from selling drugs than you and I do? I try, that's all I can do for now. Give me something to try and I will JD..that's why I'm in the schools...
SF


William, I appreciate a lot of things here:

First for starting the thread
Two the civility here
Three this is the toughest site on the web
Four this is one of the most intelligent sites on the web

I know that this is a very serious social issue. Answers are tough to come by.
WH, one of the primary problems now a days is the mobility. People that may have lived in some of the poorer communities move out.

This mobility stifles development as all that is left in the neighborhood is the undesirable assortment of characters. The ones that the always escape the Police for one reason or another.

They are always up to things, no good, but they never get caught. They use the ones that we want to save as a conduit for their corrupt ways.

I would continue the efforts that you have initiated. The ones that can be saved will swim. Impress upon them things like self determination. You are an expert in that having served in the USMC

Thanks for the comps too, but I just am a regular Jarhead:D:usmc:

William Hardy
08-04-09, 03:48 PM
I always thought that the government could save money if they just used the drugs and syringes found at the scene....and what's with the alcohol wipes...who's worried about an infection?

Keep talking....we have to save the kids....most will turn out OK anyway, but we could reduce crime if we can change their attitudes...I'm a pessimist but I keep trying anyway...

I look at it this way....I don't know which one of them will end up caring for me in the old folks home....gotta try and help them all...kind of an insureance...

Rocky C
08-04-09, 04:00 PM
Gunny Hardy,
This is one Great, Positive, Constructive Thread!!!
Congrats to all who are contibuting here.
I have some thoughts but I cannot type as fast as you all so I will type it in my email program and then post it here.
Semper Fi,
Rocky

Big Jim
08-04-09, 04:00 PM
I always thought that the government could save money if they just used the drugs and syringes found at the scene....and what's with the alcohol wipes...who's worried about an infection?

Keep talking....we have to save the kids....most will turn out OK anyway, but we could reduce crime if we can change their attitudes...I'm a pessimist but I keep trying anyway...

I look at it this way....I don't know which one of them will end up caring for me in the old folks home....gotta try and help them all...kind of an insureance...

I full well understand your concern, Gunny. The alcohol wipes and the quiet lethality if the injection process all comes from the liberals. BE HUMANE!! That's what they tell us to do. Hell, I have personally witnessed 2 lethal injections here in Ohio. Its almost too good for what some of these idiots have done. But, again, we don't get to decide that law.

William Hardy
08-04-09, 08:52 PM
Need some more input. I could write a book on this stuff....well at least a couple hundred pages worth which I did do in graduate school.
To summarize my thesis ....
1. Elementary - Most of the kids in the lower grades all behave in similar ways. Nurture seems to be working...they learn the rules...they are happy...everything is great.
2. Junior High - Things change - It didn't matter about any factors - economic status, family problems, etc..it just didn't matter. My researched showed that the preacher kid got into just as much trouble as the project kid.
3. High School - Kids start turning into their parents. All the good work done at the elementary level begins to be undone. Nature wins most of the time.

The results were just for our community with the resources we have in place...the results could have been just the opposite in another community. It's just heartbreaking to lose a kid after all those years.

I hate to see those kids turn into repeat offenders and end up in the category I started with in this thread. It may be sad to me to do so, but I apply my opinion to them as well as all those I don't know.

Let's hear some more on both sides ...
What do we do with criminals?
How can we help the younger group not to become criminals?
Is it nature or nurture?

Warbyrd13
08-05-09, 03:08 AM
Let's hear some more on both sides ...


First off I would like to say this is a very good thread and everyone has brought up allot of great ideas and or what they think would be solutions to the problem.

What do we do with criminals?<O:p></O:p>

To answer the first question about what we do with criminals.
For 1st time on minor crimes would be community service, education, volunteer work ect. Give these people a chance to redeem themselves. Everyone makes a mistake. Take your punishment and move on with your life.<O:p></O:p>
<O:p> </O:p>
Repeaters on minor crimes should start to get harsher punishment if they keep doing the same stupid things over and over again. DUI loose their license to drive, fishing and hunting. Mandorty AA meetings because they seem to have a problem.

For major crimes very steep and harsh punishments. It will stop people from committing crimes like the following:<O:p></O:p>
<O:p> </O:p>
Gang member= Death “honestly I believe cops should be allowed to shoot gang members on sight, gangs seem enjoy killing cops and other people when they feel like it.”

<O:p></O:p>
Murder= 2 appeals to prove innocence in 6 months. If still found guilty after the 6 months max then death is carried out. (It seems harsh but it will stop a lot of idiots wanting to kill someone for stupid reasons)

<O:p></O:p>
Rape= death 2 appeals then death sentence. <O:p></O:p>
Note: All petty cases like “date rape” or she was ok until the next morning gets thrown out. If the accuser if proved to have lied about the rape then that person serves 25 years or more in jail. This solves the problem we have now have of false rape cases. I know it might pi## some people off but the past 5 “cases” in the military I have known about only 1 was true the others were lied about so the woman could protect herself from her cheating on her husband or boyfriend. Yet 4 young men are now “ropiest”. I am very supported of people who have been raped and I believe in a slow and painful death for rapiest. But for those people who cry rape to cover their sorry a&& buts when they get caught cheating need to be punished.<O:p></O:p>

Child abuse/rape= Proven to be accurate with DNA testing or other facts and not a false claim (namely this comes up in divorce hearings.) then slow and painful death. To me this is the most brutal crime ever to commit and I believe the person needs to suffer a long time before they are allowed to die for harming a child. I am very biased on this subject because I am a parent of 3 small children. I have no mercy for anyone who would harm any of my children.<O:p></O:p>
False claims should be punished also with jail time. I have seen this in custody battles and it sickens me when this tactic is used.

<O:p></O:p>
Drug dealer= Death by Over dose. You choose to deal you die very simple.

<O:p></O:p>
Serial Killers= Very painful Death (I would even allow the family member of the victim(s) to do the act)<O:p></O:p>
<O:p> </O:p>
How can we help the younger group not to become criminals?<O:p></O:p>
This would be of society setting up higher morale standards and enforcing it. This of course would start with the parents setting the example, family and the community. Every one knows the difference between right and wrong. We should be teaching responsibility for your actions more. How to be honest. Treat everyone fair. Things like this should be common place.<O:p></O:p>
<O:p> </O:p>
Positive Role models should be police, firemen. Nurses and Doctors. Professional Athletes should be doing more volunteer work with kids and education programs. We should be more people interested in positive examples these people set not the drug use, binge drinking, cheating on the spouses a crap that people seem to enjoy more.<O:p></O:p>
<O:p> </O:p>
A higher morale standard should be set and accepted.<O:p></O:p>
<O:p> </O:p>
Is it nature or nurture?<O:p></O:p>
Neither, you have a choice. It don’t matter what your parents did, what background you came from you still make a choice in your life on what you do. You know what is right and what is wrong. And when you make those choices you should be ready to accept what comes with them. <O:p></O:p>
Too many times I have seen people blame their mistakes on their childhood, their education, where they lived. That is total and utter BS. You make your own choices and you know the difference between right and wrong. The problem is no one wants to take responsibility for their actions anymore; it is easier just to blame someone else.<O:p></O:p>

Parker-0321
08-05-09, 06:54 AM
Capital Punishment....Kill them all as quick as they killed the victim.

With the advent of DNA now as soon as it it is proven....kill them the same way they murdered!

Some are not guilty in incarceration...but it doesn't take ten years to figure it out.

If you do the crime...do the time.


Prison is a good thing...keeps more dickheads off the streets.

Parole..... if done your man given time and are reformed(SIC) then it is up to you and your maker when the reaper comes for your azz.:evilgrin:

Kill and be killed, the murder rate is insane, I bet that would put a dent in it.

What's the name of that prison that puts it's prisoners in tents in the desert, gives them nothing but pink to wear, keeps them in chain gangs, and puts them to work doing mind-numbing, hard physical labor? THAT is a prison. Prison should be something to dread, not something to be taken lightly. Make punishment exactly that, PUNISHMENT.

DocGreek
08-05-09, 07:25 AM
:mad:....GOLLY GEE!! HOLY COW...DUDES!!..What great NEW constructive ideas, and plans you ALL have!!!! "Shoot em' all, and let GOD sort it out!!!".......NO, WAIT!!!.....they all had bad childhoods, so we've got to counsel and medicate THEM...to put them back into society!!!

ENFORCE THE LAWS!!!....WHINING...about "our" problems, NEVER fixes them!!! We are a society/culture based on the laws...WE CREATED!! "Uphold the LAW, at any cost!!!"...J.R.A. REMEMBER DEMOCRACY???.....if you don't like the laws....REPEAL THEM!!....if you want BETTER LAWS...ENACT THEM!!!

Who's at fault for all of the bad crap???.........WE ARE!!!............ALWAYS FAITHFUL.....Doc Greek

HST
08-05-09, 08:03 AM
I'm for capital punishment and I mean public executions. The punishment should also be done in a timely manner not after 15 years of appeals but I think we need to be very sure that the person is really guilty and we're now finding through DNA testing that many of them are not.

In the case of imprisonment, I think they should do the time but I think we need to stop putting people in prison for things like drug use. I think all and I mean all drugs shoild be legalized or decriminalized. It some idiot wants to get high, or jump off a bridge, thats his business, as long as he doesn't put others in jeprody. Our prisons are full of people who are guilty of nothing more than getting high. We spend billions on drug interdiction and it don't even touch the problem.

Thats my 2c on it, put the violent criminals away for long times, eliminate the most violent, Keep the government out of our bedrooms and medicine cabinets.

Ed Palmer
08-05-09, 09:56 AM
You know I just love this ,
http://www.tonyrogers.com/video/GunCONTROL%201.wmv

Big Jim
08-05-09, 10:00 AM
I'm for capital punishment and I mean public executions. The punishment should also be done in a timely manner not after 15 years of appeals but I think we need to be very sure that the person is really guilty and we're now finding through DNA testing that many of them are not.

In the case of imprisonment, I think they should do the time but I think we need to stop putting people in prison for things like drug use. I think all and I mean all drugs shoild be legalized or decriminalized. It some idiot wants to get high, or jump off a bridge, thats his business, as long as he doesn't put others in jeprody. Our prisons are full of people who are guilty of nothing more than getting high. We spend billions on drug interdiction and it don't even touch the problem.

Thats my 2c on it, put the violent criminals away for long times, eliminate the most violent, Keep the government out of our bedrooms and medicine cabinets.


You really belive all drugs should be legalized and decriminalized....??? Wow...you have no clue what you're even saying or even what that would mean to our entire economy and legal structure. Not to mention the massive amount of problems it would create for the health of the people.

So you think that these people are in prisons for just getting high on drugs....just getting high and that's it....?!?! That couldn't be further from the truth if you tried harder....!! Here in Columbus, Ohio....I have alot of cop friends and they only hand out misdemeanor possession tickets to anyone walking down the street smoking a joint and let them go on thier way.....they don't lock anyone up for getting high....!! They lock people up for dealing the drugs and the robberies and killings they commit for money they need so they can buy the drugs in order to maintain their habits...!! Your focusing on another problem completely different than the prison system or capital punishment if you want to keep your drugs so you can just get high and be left alone.

Your $.02 isn't worth $.02.

Trucrimsongold
08-05-09, 10:53 AM
How about a new approach?

Education and real equal opportunity? Maybe that will really reduce the need for the Prison Industrial Complex (PIC):usmc:

A lot people are in jail for economic reasons a lot in part due to poor education and that poor education leads to many unequal opportunities.

A lot of people are in jail because they cross the line society has deemed as a unlawful act. Im poor as well but I work harder to make more money so my kids get to go to a decent school. How do you suppose to pay for educating thugs? Tax money. From those who work for a living. The very people thugs prey on who not only support room and board for them after they are arrested through tax dollars now should pay for them to get an education? LIBERAL GIBBERISH.

Fear prevents crime. If im afraid that if I break that law I might sit in a cage or be put to death I will not commit the crime. A basic "dog" can understand that principle. Heck a three year old can understand actions and consequences if they are taught right from wrong. Your solution those disguised with some "Higher education slicker" is bogus and already has proven to have failed. Where have you been for the past thirty years? Prisoners already have these type of bogus educational opprotunities online within prisons as well as other social programs paid for by tax paying people who work for a living.

HST
08-05-09, 10:56 AM
I don't think so but then how would I know? I'm just out on the streets in the hoods every day. I see people who get a jones on some $200.00 a day sh*t that really costs about $2.00 and can't stop. First they hock everything they've got then they start robbing and stealing and fencing the stuff for 5% of its value and thats in the morning, by noon if they haven't got right, it goes down to 1%...and heres the great part, its our stuff they're stealing. Then catch them and we lock them up and that costs another 50 grand a year and thats not counting cops time which could be spent popping the real bad guys or the courts time. And its getting to the point where cops are turning theem loose with a ticket that they will never show up and pay because it costs so much and takes so long to do the lab work on the seized substances. But I don't know Sh*t. One other thing smart *ss, I don't care much for your b*llsh*t comment about "your drugs so you can get high" I don't do drugs of any kind. If you want to see it up close and personal come on over to my turf, I'll give you a ride that you'll remember for a while.

Trucrimsongold
08-05-09, 11:10 AM
I'm for capital punishment and I mean public executions. The punishment should also be done in a timely manner not after 15 years of appeals but I think we need to be very sure that the person is really guilty and we're now finding through DNA testing that many of them are not.

In the case of imprisonment, I think they should do the time but I think we need to stop putting people in prison for things like drug use. I think all and I mean all drugs shoild be legalized or decriminalized. It some idiot wants to get high, or jump off a bridge, thats his business, as long as he doesn't put others in jeprody. Our prisons are full of people who are guilty of nothing more than getting high. We spend billions on drug interdiction and it don't even touch the problem.

Thats my 2c on it, put the violent criminals away for long times, eliminate the most violent, Keep the government out of our bedrooms and medicine cabinets.

HST has a good point for all you who say the world would fall apart if all drugs were legal. I disagree to a point. I'm not going to go out and pick up a crack pipe if it was legal tommorow just like I will not stand in the middle of oncoming traffic should hitch hiking on the highways become legal. And tons of money are spen't by tax payers on the enforcement and war on drugs. You make drugs legal and sell it at Walgreens your average drug user isn't going to get shot by some thug drug dealer in the ghetto at 0300hrs and even better than that the thug drug dealer will be out of business. The government mucks things up. I don't know that they could regulate it, they have a poor track history of their involvement in anything this country has seen and they sure as heck are throwing a great deal of money at the enforcement of it. But HST is wrong about the "poor addict" making up the prisons. That is bogus. The one's who are put in are the one's who have crossed the line into major dangerous stuff like burglaries or assaults. The addicts instead get tax payer expense bogus "first offender programs" where they go to tax payer "diverson classes" and play vollyball out in the country and get social security money because they are considered "disable" because of their habit, thats the real issue I have. Take the government out of it and let the rats kill each other. Just dont allow them to have responsible jobs that involve other peoples safety. Have stricter screening for drugs in jobs like Air Traffic Controller,Pilots etc...so on ...Teachers...Bus drivers....All have to test negative for all drugs...Again, the government mucks things up.

Trucrimsongold
08-05-09, 11:25 AM
William, I appreciate a lot of things here:

First for starting the thread
Two the civility here
Three this is the toughest site on the web
Four this is one of the most intelligent sites on the web

I know that this is a very serious social issue. Answers are tough to come by.
WH, one of the primary problems now a days is the mobility. People that may have lived in some of the poorer communities move out.

This mobility stifles development as all that is left in the neighborhood is the undesirable assortment of characters. The ones that the always escape the Police for one reason or another.

They are always up to things, no good, but they never get caught. They use the ones that we want to save as a conduit for their corrupt ways.

I would continue the efforts that you have initiated. The ones that can be saved will swim. Impress upon them things like self determination. You are an expert in that having served in the USMC

Thanks for the comps too, but I just am a regular Jarhead:D:usmc:

They never get caught because of people like you who always bash the Police and make their jobs harder, then you want them to help.
Funny how you make a smirk about how the thugs always escape the police "for one reason or another" but you are the first one to cry about excessive force. What a crock. The minute the Police did as they should and hit the drug corners and rounded up all the thug drug dealers you would be the first one crying about "Racist police". You can't have your cake and eat it too and you can't sit back and through a book at a solution to solve it, you have to get your hands on it and get them dirty at times and that means allowing the Police to do their jobs without trying to tie their hands behind their backs. Your very Rhetoric is the reason cops let stuff go. they just don't want to deal with it with the joke salary they make.

Big Jim
08-05-09, 11:35 AM
I bet you would feel different if it was one of your kids or family that was locked up. You would want any and every chance and opportunity available for that person. <br />
<br />
Here's a fact for you...

Big Jim
08-05-09, 11:49 AM
I don't think so but then how would I know? I'm just out on the streets in the hoods every day. I see people who get a jones on some $200.00 a day sh*t that really costs about $2.00 and can't stop. First they hock everything they've got then they start robbing and stealing and fencing the stuff for 5% of its value and thats in the morning, by noon if they haven't got right, it goes down to 1%...and heres the great part, its our stuff they're stealing. Then catch them and we lock them up and that costs another 50 grand a year and thats not counting cops time which could be spent popping the real bad guys or the courts time. And its getting to the point where cops are turning theem loose with a ticket that they will never show up and pay because it costs so much and takes so long to do the lab work on the seized substances. But I don't know Sh*t. One other thing smart *ss, I don't care much for your b*llsh*t comment about "your drugs so you can get high" I don't do drugs of any kind. If you want to see it up close and personal come on over to my turf, I'll give you a ride that you'll remember for a while.


At least you admit to not knowing anything when you open your mouth. All you see is what you see from a "victims" stand point. Believe me, boy, there is alot more to this than you realize. If you don't like anything coming from a professional who has worked in the Corrections system for 17 years, don't make stupid azz comments you have no clue about...!!! If I came on to your "turf", I would take over and there wouldn't be a dam thing you could do about it....you couldn't handle what I have, punk. But its more likely I will see you on my "turf" ....in my prison for "getting high on your drugs."

Warbyrd13
08-05-09, 06:29 PM
Big Jim I respect your insight on this topic becuase of what you do. And I agree that education should be in place to ensure people do not become repeat offenders. For minor crimes I beleive people...

William Hardy
08-05-09, 07:14 PM
Lot's of good stuff here...lots of heart felt statements also...Anyone new to this thread should read each one before commenting....even if I don't agree with something, at least I can empathize which increases my understanding about what makes the world go around.

I have one major question...
I will be covering this topic about the criminal justice system, prisons, and capital punishment with my students in March, April, and May. Would anyone object if I anonymously quote some of these ideas to my class. I have a good class coming up next semester, but being high schoolers, they lack real world experience and only say what they heard their parents say. By using some of this, I can better give them the different views you all have been giving. It's great stuff...EVEN DOC GREEKS (LOL)...actually, Doc does bring up a different view. If you object, I will note your screen name and not use that comment...remember...I will not use any real or screen names...
Bill

Warbyrd13
08-05-09, 08:14 PM
I do not mind if you use what I posted on here.

Big Jim
08-05-09, 09:35 PM
Lot's of good stuff here...lots of heart felt statements also...Anyone new to this thread should read each one before commenting....even if I don't agree with something, at least I can empathize which increases my understanding about what makes the world go around.

I have one major question...
I will be covering this topic about the criminal justice system, prisons, and capital punishment with my students in March, April, and May. Would anyone object if I anonymously quote some of these ideas to my class. I have a good class coming up next semester, but being high schoolers, they lack real world experience and only say what they heard their parents say. By using some of this, I can better give them the different views you all have been giving. It's great stuff...EVEN DOC GREEKS (LOL)...actually, Doc does bring up a different view. If you object, I will note your screen name and not use that comment...remember...I will not use any real or screen names...
Bill


Feel free, Gunny Hardy, to use anything I have contributed to this thread. Teach those kids something. If you need anything or would like anything else from me....just ask, ok?

Warbyrd, it sounds like you have one of those stubborn ones that refuse the help and they won't see reality until it hits them in the face like a shovel...!! Most people who realize what they've lost do see the error of their ways when they realize that they are in prison. I also agree with you, you're guy won't realize how much wrong he's doing until he does kill someone by driving drunk. By then it will be too late. I, too, have some distant relatives in prison in Minnesota. None that I see regularly or that I am at all that close to, but they're still family. We grew up together and I don't wish anything bad on him but he did the crime and now he's doing the time. Plain and simple and thats the bottom line with prison and capital punishment. The criminals don't care who they hurt or who gets in their way otherwise they wouldn't be there if they did care. Thats my take on the problem. I feel no loss or remorse. They chose their actions and now they must be responsible for them, family or not. they put themselves there. But, if I can prevent a crime from happening and there is anything I can do to prevent that guy from driving drunk again, I would do it, friend or family...or not. Better to be safe than sorry.

charm1110
08-05-09, 10:48 PM
Gunny Hardy,
feel free to use anything I post anytime.
That last couple of posts by Big Jim and Warbyrd brings up the topic of driving while impaired which seems to be a commonly repeated crime that does put lives in danger and carries relatively light punishments for 1st or even 2nd offenses. I would say that at some point we have to get smarter about applying punishments in these "lesser" crimes. I've read a little about ignition interlock devices and wonder if that technology would work if you're impaired but can't start your vehicle, no crime committed. On the other hand if you're caught driving impaired the punishment for your first offense should make your head spin! of course there are those that won't care and will continue to drive impaired but those are likely career criminals.

Semper Fi...:flag:

HST
08-06-09, 08:08 AM
At least you admit to not knowing anything when you open your mouth. All you see is what you see from a "victims" stand point. Believe me, boy, there is alot more to this than you realize. If you don't like anything coming from a professional who has worked in the Corrections system for 17 years, don't make stupid azz comments you have no clue about...!!! If I came on to your "turf", I would take over and there wouldn't be a dam thing you could do about it....you couldn't handle what I have, punk. But its more likely I will see you on my "turf" ....in my prison for "getting high on your drugs."

Yeah looser, I'm going to learn a lot from some jail guard who is doing what he's doing because he couldn't make it in enforcement or failed truck driving school. I'm not a victim. I handle emergency management and disaster response. I go out when the sh*t hits the fan and you get it after we sweep off the street. Go back to your cell watching duties,maybe you can watch some unsafe sex and get your rocks off, looser.

Trucrimsongold
08-06-09, 10:19 AM
Absolutely agree prisoners should be made to work. And their reward is getting out and getting fresh air for doing the work. You numbers as to how there is low or no &quot;Recidivism&quot; are way off. Thats...

Zulu 36
08-06-09, 12:32 PM
Absolutely agree prisoners should be made to work. And their reward is getting out and getting fresh air for doing the work. You numbers as to how there is low or no "Recidivism" are way off. Thats my point. Its a waste of tax payers money. So stop throwing it away. The numbers you get must be from some liberal blog because they are not at all accurate in the numbers I read for corrections postings on the wall at work. And those numbers come straight from the prisons.

A lot of prisoners on work details from county and state facilities volunteer for those details exactly to get out of the slam, into the fresh air, and possibly learn something honest to use when they get out. Plus they get paid a little more per hour than inside workers. Additionally, they get extra good time credit.

Where I live, both the counties and state DOC heavily use prisoner details. Sometimes, the DOC details get to work with professional road paving companies and I know of a few inmates who got decent jobs after they got out of prison because the company crew bosses found them to be good and hard workers. The DOC crews get certified to use some types of heavy equipment as well, so that doesn't hurt job chances either.

Big Jim
08-06-09, 03:22 PM
Yeah looser, I'm going to learn a lot from some jail guard who is doing what he's doing because he couldn't make it in enforcement or failed truck driving school. I'm not a victim. I handle emergency management and disaster response. I go out when the sh*t hits the fan and you get it after we sweep off the street. Go back to your cell watching duties,maybe you can watch some unsafe sex and get your rocks off, looser.

Looser......??? LOL.....you seem to know alot about what happens in a prison cell....maybe it happened in your prison cell, huh...? Is that why you say "looser"....?? HAHAHAHA....Dumbazz, grow brain you idiot, as old as you are and still digging ditches. Well, the world needs ditch diggers too.....even gay ones like you who prefer their sh!t packed tightly and azzholes looser.....? You handle EMA...?!?! I didn't know they were so hard up.....!!! I fear for the people in your area.

Big Jim
08-06-09, 03:28 PM
Absolutely agree prisoners should be made to work. And their reward is getting out and getting fresh air for doing the work. You numbers as to how there is low or no "Recidivism" are way off. Thats my point. Its a waste of tax payers money. So stop throwing it away. The numbers you get must be from some liberal blog because they are not at all accurate in the numbers I read for corrections postings on the wall at work. And those numbers come straight from the prisons.


No buddy, I was talking about the inmates who recieved the rehabilitation programs as well as education that had the low recidivism numbers. That specific inmate who embraced the structure and used those programs to turn their lives around while in prison and came out and never returned. The general levels for inmates....especially the same inmates....without this programming and rehabilitative education, returns to prison are very high. That is the cycle I spoke of and yes you're right....they are very high. Just clarifying, brother.

Zulu 36
08-06-09, 05:59 PM
Yeah looser, I'm going to learn a lot from some jail guard who is doing what he's doing because he couldn't make it in enforcement or failed truck driving school. I'm not a victim. I handle emergency management and disaster response. I go out when the sh*t hits the fan and you get it after we sweep off the street. Go back to your cell watching duties,maybe you can watch some unsafe sex and get your rocks off, looser.

I'm just curious about what it is exactly that you do in emergency management and disaster response?

Warbyrd13
08-06-09, 06:14 PM
Yeah looser, I'm going to learn a lot from some jail guard who is doing what he's doing because he couldn't make it in enforcement or failed truck driving school. I'm not a victim. I handle emergency management and disaster response. I go out when the sh*t hits the fan and you get it after we sweep off the street. Go back to your cell watching duties,maybe you can watch some unsafe sex and get your rocks off, looser.

HST,

If you want to talk smack then send the person a PM.

HST
08-06-09, 07:04 PM
HST,

If you want to talk smack then send the person a PM.

Why don't you try to follow the thread blowjob, I didn't start this sh*t. Sending someone a personal message presumes he has a personality. If you have enough education to read the thread its obvious Jimbo has none whatsoever.

And for you Big Jim, there are only three kinds of jobs that are always open even now when the economy is in the tank: porta sh*tter pumpers, come inducers at the sperm bank and jail guards. From the sh*t you've said I assume you tried and failed at the first two. I guess your lips are callosed from sucking enough ass to make E-5 in ass in the Corps.

William Hardy
08-06-09, 07:08 PM
HST - Please keep this thread civil. We have been exchanging ideas from all sides. We can disagree without lowering our standards.

OK Men - I spent 6 hours today with a guy from Virginia that is a world class expert on education. Larry Bell is his name and you can Google his name and finds tons of information on him. He is convinced that my professing (teaching for those of you that are just joining in) can reach EVERY KID and nurture can overcome nature. He was very informative and I talked personally with him today. I purchased a couple of his teaching tools and will try them in class next week when the classes start for our kids here. I will give it a try...I bat around 97-98% in getting all my kids to pass their proficiency tests each year. Bell said if I apply some of his techniques he guarantees 100%...I hope he's right. If I can do that, it will place hope into the hands of more kids and maybe they won't end up as the topic of discussion in this thread. All of our staff were there and everyone was in agreement to try his program. In my 26 years in education, that is the first time 100% of the teachers agreed on a method ...usually we have at least half of the teachers disagreeing on the quality of the methods presented. This gives me hope that this just might work.

JD - check out Larry Bell's site...I think you will be pleased. He supports your feelings and you and Mr. Bell might just win me over to the other side.

HST
08-06-09, 07:09 PM
Emergency management and disaster resonponse is pretty simple. If you live in this Country call your police or fire department, they can give you the information.

HST
08-06-09, 07:18 PM
HST - Please keep this thread civil. We have been exchanging ideas from all sides. We can disagree without lowering our standards.

OK Men - I spent 6 hours today with a guy from Virginia that is a world class expert on education. Larry Bell is his name and you can Google his name and finds tons of information on him. He is convinced that my professing (teaching for those of you that are just joining in) can reach EVERY KID and nurture can overcome nature. He was very informative and I talked personally with him today. I purchased a couple of his teaching tools and will try them in class next week when the classes start for our kids here. I will give it a try...I bat around 97-98% in getting all my kids to pass their proficiency tests each year. Bell said if I apply some of his techniques he guarantees 100%...I hope he's right. If I can do that, it will place hope into the hands of more kids and maybe they won't end up as the topic of discussion in this thread. All of our staff were there and everyone was in agreement to try his program. In my 26 years in education, that is the first time 100% of the teachers agreed on a method ...usually we have at least half of the teachers disagreeing on the quality of the methods presented. This gives me hope that this just might work.

JD - check out Larry Bell's site...I think you will be pleased. He supports your feelings and you and Mr. Bell might just win me over to the other side.

I'm gioing to say this one more time dude, I DIDN"T START THIS! If this jerk wants to maks smart remarks suggesting that I'm a drug user and I can't resopond then you can stick this up your *ss. I offered an opinion and he gave me a lot of cheap sh*t. Why don't you tell him to shut the F*ck up!

Zulu 36
08-06-09, 08:26 PM
Emergency management and disaster resonponse is pretty simple. If you live in this Country call your police or fire department, they can give you the information.

Well, HST, I know what emergency response, etc, does and is. Been there, done that. I am a retired deputy police chief and a former paramedic from the metro Detroit area. I still provide some free consulting work to my county sheriff and local police chief here in Florida. I also teach wilderness first aid to Boy Scouts and Venturing Scouts.

However, I am asking what it is that YOU do, exactly, within the greater emergency and disaster response field? You can be technical. I'll understand the big words.

Warbyrd13
08-06-09, 09:07 PM
I'm gioing to say this one more time dude, I DIDN"T START THIS! If this jerk wants to maks smart remarks suggesting that I'm a drug user and I can't resopond then you can stick this up your *ss. I offered an opinion and he gave me a lot of cheap sh*t. Why don't you tell him to shut the F*ck up!


Relax and take a deep breathe. This is the internet and people are posting thier veiws on topics.

Big Jim
08-06-09, 09:11 PM
Hey HST, lets drop the bullsh!t. We both said some things that were out of line and way past unnecessary. I extend my hand to you in an effort to quell this pizzing match. It wasn't my intention to start this but to bring understanding to people asking questions. We're grown men and Marines....let's start acting like it. SEMPER FI...

William Hardy
08-06-09, 09:22 PM
Believe it or not, HSTs idea of legalizing drugs is one of the topics I will be bring up to the students. I do it every year and every year the kids can think of lots of reasons it is a bad idea and only one or two points that might be good...until they think about it and by the end of the class discussion, no one thinks its a good idea....but I still bring it up every year. There is nothing good that can come from legalizing it. I have lost too many students to drugs already....if it were legal I would loose a lot more. For example...When the drinking age was 21 in my state way back when, it was hard for a kid to get beer or hard liquor. When it was lowered for a while, it made it easier for kids to get some senior who had failed to buy it for them. Now that the age has been raised again, our problem with teen drinking as been reduced. Drug as illegal and kids can get them. If they were legalized, more kids would get more drugs because legal drugs would be cheaper. End result...I would loose even more kids....bad idea. I am conservative in my views, but I am still my brother's keeper. I want laws that protect us all from what ever evils are out there. For these reasons, I absolutely disagree with HST ideas of legalization.

tgwkreu7
08-06-09, 09:25 PM
i spent four and a half years teaching in two different state prison systems i taught inmates to get ready to take the ged test similar to high school diploma one in virginia and one in delaware some of the things that were said on this sight is true but most of it is not you need to be in prison then you know what you can talk about don't assume

William Hardy
08-07-09, 06:26 AM
i spent four and a half years teaching in two different state prison systems i taught inmates to get ready to take the ged test similar to high school diploma one in virginia and one in delaware some of the things that were said on this sight is true but most of it is not you need to be in prison then you know what you can talk about don't assume

Please be more specific...can you give some more details...can't learn without them. Thanks and SF

HST
08-07-09, 07:53 AM
Well, HST, I know what emergency response, etc, does and is. Been there, done that. I am a retired deputy police chief and a former paramedic from the metro Detroit area. I still provide some free consulting work to my county sheriff and local police chief here in Florida. I also teach wilderness first aid to Boy Scouts and Venturing Scouts.

However, I am asking what it is that YOU do, exactly, within the greater emergency and disaster response field? You can be technical. I'll understand the big words.

I work the field side. We have 91 municipalities and 43 fire departments and fire protection districts in our County, for the most part they are seperate legal entities, many have there own police and fire departments, communications is a real challenge. We contract with many of these municipalities for various services including police and code enforcement. We have several secure facilities that receive reports and corrolate data when we go into the crisis mode. In normal conditions, I moniter our performance, I cruise the municipalities, meet with the officials, listen to the complaints or suggestions and try to correct what needs to be corrected. In an emergency, I receive reports from our command bunker, go to the sites, maintain good communications with the municipal officials, evaluate whats happening and if its something that we can help with, heavy equipment, Hazmat, health services, ect. I try to get it on the site and I do windows.

HST
08-07-09, 08:11 AM
Hey HST, lets drop the bullsh!t. We both said some things that were out of line and way past unnecessary. I extend my hand to you in an effort to quell this pizzing match. It wasn't my intention to start this but to bring understanding to people asking questions. We're grown men and Marines....let's start acting like it. SEMPER FI...

You've got it brother. One thing about us is we can ***** and fight but in the end we're still all Marines. I'm just very sensitive about the drug thing.Toward the end of my tour a lot of our guys were using hard stuff, you could go through a vill on patrol and the gooks would stand by the road and sell the Sh*t. These were young stupid Marines from places like podunk Ohio who never heard of heroin, didn't know what they were messing with and didn't think it would ever happen to them. When it did, when they got caught, or when they busted out on a **** test on the way home, the Corps threw them out to the dogs. They were given BCD'S or UD's. I knew some of these guys, they were loyal marines and hard fighters, many had been decorated and they were thrown out like the garbage. I never messed with any of that stuff and I never will, even when I got hurt a few years ago, I told them, no thanks, no dope but its still a sore spot with me even after 40 years. Anyway have a good day brother and Semper Fi.

Big Jim
08-07-09, 03:46 PM
You've got it brother. One thing about us is we can ***** and fight but in the end we're still all Marines. I'm just very sensitive about the drug thing.Toward the end of my tour a lot of our guys were using hard stuff, you could go through a vill on patrol and the gooks would stand by the road and sell the Sh*t. These were young stupid Marines from places like podunk Ohio who never heard of heroin, didn't know what they were messing with and didn't think it would ever happen to them. When it did, when they got caught, or when they busted out on a **** test on the way home, the Corps threw them out to the dogs. They were given BCD'S or UD's. I knew some of these guys, they were loyal marines and hard fighters, many had been decorated and they were thrown out like the garbage. I never messed with any of that stuff and I never will, even when I got hurt a few years ago, I told them, no thanks, no dope but its still a sore spot with me even after 40 years. Anyway have a good day brother and Semper Fi.


Now, why the hell do I have to be from Podunk, Ohio...?!?! HAHAHA....Just kidding brother....yeah my Uncle was in the 3rd Marines in Nam. Thats why I never brought it up. I know what you 're saying. We may beat the sh!t outta each other and be best drinking buddies that night....trying to hit on mama-san.....LOL...!! I, too, have seen drug use and abuse in the Corps. It is a definite subject for argument with me, too, bro. But, at the end of the day, thats all it really is....just an argument. SEMPER FI brother......

:thumbup:

HST
08-08-09, 06:14 AM
Sorry Zulu, I had to get some work done... but after whatever happens(we get a lot of summer and winter storms, ice, flash floods and full blown floods here) its pretty much the same everywhere from what I've heard; the number crunchers look at the scope and severity, if its warranted the executive or mayor send a letter to the GOV requesting a disaser declaration, that brings in SEMA, if the Gov approves and sends it to DC , FEMA and the SBA come in to do a rapid assessment about that time the red cross and united way get in, if DC aproves and a DD is issued its all about claims processing and moneyfor individual assistance and per capita for us. I'm not really great on the admin side. I sure from the positions you've attained, that you know a lot more about the upper management and decision making side of the field. My nich is knowing people in the municipalities all the way down to the wards. I'm there every day, they know I can be trusted and they will talk to me honestly. I also know the structure of our departments and what assets they have that might be used to assist and in a disaster, especially in the initial phases when the only assets available are local. Its a cool job, I like it, I get to meet a lot of nice dedicated people and I get to help in a small way when I can. I also see a lot of things that make you wonder about why the rich can be so rich and the poor so poor in this country. I don't want to sound like a social worker but when times are good and people are working the crime rates go way down in the "bad" neighborhoods and my job is a lot safer. Anyway, thats my story and I'm sticking to it.