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Alisium
07-19-09, 11:12 PM
Recently I was chatting with someone on another site and gave them a break down of how to call for fire (at least as best as I could remember).

It was standard grid mission. I thought I did okay until this former Army FO and FDC reminded me to give the azimuth, during a grid mission, from me to the target for perspective.

It makes sense. But, for the life of me I searched and searched my brain housing group, and some notes, but I just cannot ever remember doing that.

Where in the brief would that go?

I know, I know I'm a shyt-bird and am horribly embarrassed.

Semper Fidelis

:usmc:

SlingerDun
07-20-09, 01:15 AM
former Army FO and FDC reminded me to give the azimuth, during a grid mission, from me to the target for perspective....Where in the brief would that go?Don't know but if i'm behind you and try to get gain a perspective to the target using your projected azimuth (magnetic declination?) from your transit position; i had better be able to pinpoint your pos within a few yards on the map or lateral drift will occur having me fanning out and speculating from your pos and beyond. The further the target from your pos the larger the area of probability.

But then again you called in the correct grid coordinates and we're both packing the same updated maps and p-code GPS technology so the azimuth seems a bit redundant. But the same goes backwards,,,if i give you a reverse azimuth to my pos it won't do you much good unless its accurate within a few yards fixed from your pos, or you can pinpoint my pos on the map to check the bearing for accuracy. If not, lateral drift will prevail. In fact, i'm trying to visualize a bearing doing me much good at all unless your perfectly in-line with me or your not and i know your EXACT position. A compass azimuth is just a dynamic direction until you pin it down with a static fix.

--->Dave

Pete0331
07-20-09, 01:31 AM
Recently I was chatting with someone on another site and gave them a break down of how to call for fire (at least as best as I could remember).

It was standard grid mission. I thought I did okay until this former Army FO and FDC reminded me to give the azimuth, during a grid mission, from me to the target for perspective.

It makes sense. But, for the life of me I searched and searched my brain housing group, and some notes, but I just cannot ever remember doing that.

Where in the brief would that go?

I know, I know I'm a shyt-bird and am horribly embarrassed.

Semper Fidelis

:usmc:

I thought grid co-ords were used mainly in polar plot missions.
Army is a bit different.

Checking my notes do have to use direction on grid missions.

Pete0331
07-20-09, 01:40 AM
Call for Fire

Steps 1-3 are required.

1. Observer ID & warning order:
Adjust fire
Fire for Effect (FFE)
Suppress (Tgt #)
Immediate suppression (Grid)
2. Target location methods:
Grid- 6 digit grid/Direction
Polar - direction, distance
Shift from a known point - direction to target, add or drop, left or right from KP. (direction always OBS to TGT)
3. Target description (SNAP):
Size/shape
Nature/nomenclature
Activity
Protection
4. Method of engagement
5. Method of Fire and Control
6. Refinement and end of mission

Note: the above is paraphrased from the Rite in the Rain field notebook.

Quinbo
07-20-09, 06:47 PM
The azimuth and distance helps the FDC decipher what exactly you are requesting when you say left, right, add, drop. If you, the target, and the gun line are in a trianglar pattern of position and you say left 100, add 100 the FDC will figure out what that means for the guns for adjustment. Your left might be add as far as the guns go etc.

Alisium
07-23-09, 04:23 PM
Thanks for the responses. I've been working 12's the last four days so am just now able to get back to this.

Anyhow,

Grid and Polar are two different missions. Polar, as I was taught, is giving the FDC your pos then shooting an azimuth to the target.

Here's the quick and dirty example I gave for a fire mission. Remember, it's been a while for me.


(you) Armageddon, Armageddon this is Charlie One, request fire support*, over.

(fire support) Charlie One, this is Armageddon, fire support, over.

(you) Enemy troops in the open. Company-plus sized element. -break- Grid: six eight six four two fife, over

(fire support) Roger Charlie One, I copy company plus sized element -break- Grid: six eight six four two fife, over

(you) Affirmative, over

(fire support) One round HEDP adjust, five rounds effect, over

(you) Roger, I copy, One round HEDP adjust, five rounds effect, over

(fire support) Affirmative, shot out. (wait for it, wait for it, wait for it) Splash in, over

(you) Armegeddon, adjust fire. Left one zero zero, add fife zero, over.

(fire support) Roger, Left one zero zero, add fife zero, over.

(you) Affirmative, over.

(fire support) Shot out. (wait for it, wait for it, wait for it) Splash in, over.

(you) On target, fire for effect, over.

Carnage

(fire support) Charlie One-Actual, rounds complete, over.

(you) Roger, stand by for BDA, over... Armageddon, 100% enemy casualties. Log and record mission, over.

(fire support) Roger, Charlie-one, mission recorded. Predesignated target one zero two Alpha. Armageddon, over.

(you) Solid copy, Armageddon, one zero two Alpha. Charlie One actual, out. Yeah, it's not perfect but, it's been a while.

*When i was with 1/4 it was "adjust fire" however, when I went to 4th LAR a Captain from 1/5 told us the proper transmission was "request fire".

Anyhow, never called for anything bigger than BN mortars and always took for granted that fire support was somewhere behind-ish me.

I like your explanation, Bulkyker.

I did talk to a buddy of mine this week that was a cannon-cocker and FO and said your best bet, once you get to the artillery and naval-gunfire level was to just do polar missions or work on shifting from predesignated targets.

Anyhow, thank you, gentlemen, for the help.

Semper Fidelis.

SlingerDun
07-29-09, 09:49 PM
The azimuth and distance helps the FDC decipher what exactly you are requesting when you say left, right, add, drop. If you, the target, and the gun line are in a trianglar pattern of position and you say left 100, add 100 the FDC will figure out what that means for the guns for adjustment. Your left might be add as far as the guns go etc.Thats why i posted: not that i'll ever have a need to call in a fire mission but being a land nav geek i was waiting for one of the site's platoon sergeant's to elaborate and clarify.

--->Dave

Petz
07-30-09, 12:56 AM
calling for fire is one thing, changing your fire mission to adjust fire, fire for effect, suppression,smmediate suppression/smoke or sead are another...

locating the target is when you need to get all that junk...

giving a grid does not require the OT direction... you are setting up a strike or you need steel rain on an advancing unit... either way you are not going to adjust fire.

polar plot is the OT direction to the nearest 10 mils, distance from your location, and vertical shift if greater than 35 M.

for polar plot to work the FDC needs your position already... this works for FO/OPs where you are already plotted in.

Alisium
07-30-09, 01:00 AM
Thats why i posted: not that i'll ever have a need to call in a fire mission but being a land nav geek i was waiting for one of the site's platoon sergeant's to elaborate and clarify.

--->Dave
Land Nav geeks, UNITE!

boomer56328
07-30-09, 03:31 AM
Recently I was chatting with someone on another site and gave them a break down of how to call for fire (at least as best as I could remember).

It was standard grid mission. I thought I did okay until this former Army FO and FDC reminded me to give the azimuth, during a grid mission, from me to the target for perspective.

It makes sense. But, for the life of me I searched and searched my brain housing group, and some notes, but I just cannot ever remember doing that.

Where in the brief would that go?

I know, I know I'm a shyt-bird and am horribly embarrassed.

Semper Fidelis

:usmc:

I was a company mortar FO and if I was calling in a grid mission I always gave my OT direction as I was making my first adjustment.

Alisium
07-30-09, 03:54 AM
I was a company mortar FO and if I was calling in a grid mission I always gave my OT direction as I was making my first adjustment.

Instead of endlessly patrolling, I wish we had more prac app using company and Bn organic assets, like mortars.

I never did but, I never called fire much anyhow. And I may have but just don't remember.

Thanks.

boomer56328
07-30-09, 03:58 AM
No problem. I've realized that i've actually forgotten alot about doing it as I was thinking about your question. I did so many times, but now it is a struggle just to remember all the points.

Alisium
07-30-09, 04:04 AM
BTW Boomer, welcome abord!

If no one else has said it yet. It's always nice to have more grunts come on.

boomer56328
07-30-09, 04:10 AM
Thanks. Appriciate it.

NOMAD41
05-17-15, 03:59 PM
Your OT direction can be given after your readback of the MTO or prior to making corrections.

josephd
05-17-15, 04:40 PM
6 year old thread!!

joseywales
05-17-15, 06:15 PM
Gotta go with Joe on this one, anyone who contributes to a very old thread like it is a conversation going on right now oughta be immediately permabanned. :) W-T-F? LOL

devilbones2
05-18-15, 07:22 AM
These threads should archive after a few months and give a warning if you try to respond. Some people are brand new to forums and not sure how they all work.

joseywales
05-19-15, 05:35 AM
2004 post...anyone around Times Square that can meet me in an hour and have a quick lunch and chat about the USMC and our time in it?

2014 post...I went there and didn't see anyone matching your description. Shoot me an email and tell me where you are exactly.

2015 post--I was there 11 years ago, sorry for the mixup, anyone can make mistakes, I didn't see our posts were a tenth of a century apart. Lets meet in Central Park five years from now.

2020--where are you in Central Park, I'm there now???

josephd
05-19-15, 12:58 PM
I went to Central Park once, I wonder if we passed each other

joseywales
05-20-15, 05:54 AM
Was that YOU, Joe??????????? Pull up a thread from 10 years ago and tell me all about it.

Phantom Blooper
05-20-15, 06:03 AM
No wonder you can't find each other and it has taken 10 years...that is because the woods of the park are the closest thing to woods and camouflage that most New Yorkers see in their lifetime.. between that and the underground rat tunnels you can stay apart for another ten years.....

joseywales
05-20-15, 03:25 PM
hell, this thread is only six years old, there's some whos gotta EIGHT year old one going elsewhere in Open Squad. Gets more interesting every day here. :)