View Full Version : Question about a "lawful" order.
HurricaneRJ
07-09-09, 10:38 AM
Of course I'm an 03 and one of the tradition is that boots have to only a high & tight or high reg until you hit deployment you can get Medium or Low regs. <br />
<br />
Now I've been on deployment for 4...
KawiGunny
07-09-09, 10:57 AM
Just tell him if he wants to charge you to be sure to push for a court martial. Maybe then he will figure out that he can't make Marines wear their hair the way he wants them to and they can wear it...
killbodies3027
07-09-09, 11:03 AM
If it's in reg, he can't do anything to you so don't sweat it. You should just go to your platoon Sergeant and tell him exactly what you told us.
Truth be told, I was rockin a low reg in SOI man, so I feel your pain. Once I hit the fleet I was being jumped left and right about my haircut. All I replied with was "It's within regulations (rank of person)." Then they knew they couldn't do anything so they just left me alone.
temarti
07-09-09, 11:06 AM
Gunny is 100% right, not to mention how dumb that "order" is. He would have a better chance if he wanted the whole squad to have a high reg., it would still be pushing it though.
killbodies3027
07-09-09, 11:10 AM
On a side note, when I was squad leader and a new set of boots came in I just told them to make sure they had a haircut every two weeks. As long as it's a regulation haircut I couldn't care less, I had more important stuff to worry about. That's the way it should be anyways.
Wyoming
07-09-09, 11:25 AM
You aren't turning achped on us are you? <br />
<br />
Some of your previous posts may suggest so. <br />
<br />
BTW, has it ever dawned on you that someone one in your chain of command is on this forum?
If you're within the regulation for grooming standards then your good... I don't think most would be within regs after two weeks.. 0-4 is still the reg, is it not?
KawiGunny
07-09-09, 11:37 AM
Of course I'm an 03 and one of the tradition is that boots have to only a high & tight or high reg until you hit deployment you can get Medium or Low regs.
Not trying to bust your nads on this...... but since when has this been a tradition? I retired just over a yr ago and I was a grunt for over 20 yrs. Never heard of that tradition.
SGT-JOHN-ADDY
07-09-09, 11:39 AM
I just told them to make sure they had a haircut every two weeks. A
every 2 weeks!!!!!.....we had to have our hair cuts every week....first sgts orders....so i cut mine every sunday
KawiGunny
07-09-09, 11:42 AM
I just told them to make sure they had a haircut every two weeks. A
every 2 weeks!!!!!.....we had to have our hair cuts every week....first sgts orders....so i cut mine every sunday
I used to cut mine every sunday night too. Always wanted that fresh haircut on Monday morning so when I mentioned haircuts (in general) to the platoon or Company, I wasn't talking about myself needing one too. Saved a lot of money that way also.
SGT-JOHN-ADDY
07-09-09, 11:43 AM
I used to cut mine every sunday night too. Always wanted that fresh haircut on Monday morning so when I mentioned haircuts (in general) to the platoon or Company, I wasn't talking about myself needing one too. Saved a lot of money that way also.
i heard that....i still cut my hair every sunday....even after being out almost 3 years....still the same ole horse shoe...lol...
I used to cut mine every sunday night too. Always wanted that fresh haircut on Monday morning so when I mentioned haircuts (in general) to the platoon or Company, I wasn't talking about myself needing one too. Saved a lot of money that way also.
Young Marines today can barely afford a haircut every week, with their cell phone bills and car notes... LOL... Same, same though... Since I was a CPL, every Monday show up with a fresh cut... It's professional...
KawiGunny
07-09-09, 11:46 AM
i heard that....i still cut my hair every sunday....even after being out almost 3 years....still the same ole horse shoe...lol...
I try to go every two weeks but sometimes it just starts to itch. I still wear a high reg though.
KawiGunny
07-09-09, 11:47 AM
Young Marines today can barely afford a haircut every week, with their cell phone bills and car notes... LOL... Same, same though... Since I was a CPL, every Monday show up with a fresh cut... It's professional...
I definitely agree with that. :beer:
SGT-JOHN-ADDY
07-09-09, 12:04 PM
I try to go every two weeks but sometimes it just starts to itch. I still wear a high reg though.
yes i know what you mean by it itches.....the longest i have let me hair go is 2 wks...because of the same thing.....but for the most part it is every sunday still....still got to look good for work...now if i could go to work in my blues...lmao....
killbodies3027
07-09-09, 12:07 PM
Do you guys do the zero fade still too, or do you just bic it?
SGT-JOHN-ADDY
07-09-09, 12:09 PM
Do you guys do the zero fade still too, or do you just bic it?
i've bic'd mine in the past....but for the most part i just take clippers to it..an do it myself.....i shaved my head when i went to korea and OMG!!!!!! it got burnt....i had damn blisters on the top of my grape....
KawiGunny
07-09-09, 12:12 PM
Do you guys do the zero fade still too, or do you just bic it?
I use two sets of clippers. One for the actual haircut. Same as reg's. And the other set cuts really close. I use it around the edges so it looks like a razor was used.
killbodies3027
07-09-09, 12:19 PM
I see. I own a set of clippers but the ones I have don't give you that zero buzz. What kind of clippers do you have that cut your hair so short?
are you ****ting me? I understand that they can't tell one group of individuals to have a certain hair cut while the other doesn't... especially if the word used to describe the group was "boots" as there is no definition other than anyone with less time than me...
so on those grounds you are safe, but all it takes is a redefinition of who gets the high&tights and if you're ok with being the reason why everyone needs to get one... well good on ya, hope you don't bleed too easily.
as for the order, a MCO is generalized so in no uncertain terms it can be considered minimum standards, if the units want to tighten up those orders we are free to do so unless the commandant is on deck and then the MCOs supersede ours. I'm confused though why Killbodies seems to think it's ok to relax regulations by requiring a hair cut once every two weeks.
I don't care if you mean to say that you checked every two weeks, to a junior Marine that means you gave them the ability to do that. You as a Cpl are not competant authority from the way you act on here killbodies...
KawiGunny
07-09-09, 12:34 PM
as for the order, a MCO is generalized so in no uncertain terms it can be considered minimum standards, if the units want to tighten up those orders we are free to do so unless the commandant is on deck and then the MCOs supersede ours.
So you are saying that a MCO doesn't set the minimal standard?
As I read your post, you are telling me that a MCO isn't worth the paper it is printed on. So I could actually do less than the order and still be good-to-go.
KawiGunny
07-09-09, 12:39 PM
I see. I own a set of clippers but the ones I have don't give you that zero buzz. What kind of clippers do you have that cut your hair so short?
Sometimes you can adjust the bottom blade on your clippers and make the cutting edges closer to even on the tips. Not all clippers will work that way. I also bought one of those beard trimmer clippers. Can't remember what kind they are but they cut really close.
Also, once you have your fade, turn your clippers over and point the cutting "tips" of the blade towards your grape like you are gonna try to cut yourself with them. That helps also with getting the sides and back a little closer if you wear a high reg or high-n-tight.
NoRemorse
07-09-09, 12:43 PM
Sometimes you can adjust the bottom blade on your clippers and make the cutting edges closer to even on the tips. Not all clippers will work that way. I also bought one of those beard trimmer clippers. Can't remember what kind they are but they cut really close.
Also, once you have your fade, turn your clippers over and point the cutting "tips" of the blade towards your grape like you are gonna try to cut yourself with them. That helps also with getting the sides and back a little closer if you wear a high reg or high-n-tight.
I think they call that feathering. Helps get everything nice and even so the hair that's left doesn't form a ridge and you don't look like a Franciscan monk.
I straight razor the line up though, keeps the line looking very sharp and crisp and keeps stubble away longer. If anyone's in the market for one google "feather razor" those are the straight razor handles that accept razor blades. Far easier than stropping and honing your own straight razor.
So you are saying that a MCO doesn't set the minimal standard?
As I read your post, you are telling me that a MCO isn't worth the paper it is printed on. So I could actually do less than the order and still be good-to-go.
I should proof read my posts....
thanks for the correction gunny.
HurricaneRJ
07-09-09, 12:50 PM
You aren't turning achped on us are you?
Some of your previous posts may suggest so.
BTW, has it ever dawned on you that someone one in your chain of command is on this forum?
First. I'll never be an Achped. i can understand where he is coming from but he and I are experiencing similar things but I'm living in another part of the Marine Corps. Yeah the Marine Corps is not what I thought it was. I would be really happy If I joined the Army but the my recruiters help me loose the weight and for that I'm thankful. I'm a Marine no doubt and I have a reputation to uphold. I can't spend my whole time dwelling on stupid ****.
Four more months left and no longer am I a boot. Of course I haven't had a good pros and cons. I've ****ed people off, and it's over. I'm not a perfect person. I got a lot of senior guys hating me because I don't play thier stupid games. I still show them that I know my knowledge and I out PT my peers everyday of the week. But I'm a professional, I know my job and I do it well.
If someone in my chain of command was on this forum they would have said something to me by now. There is a lot of **** I could have posted that is absolute stupid on what "senior" LCpl's do to boots.
KawiGunny
07-09-09, 12:54 PM
I should proof read my posts....
thanks for the correction gunny.
Just trying to clarify what you were saying before I opened my mouth and inserted foot. Don't like making statements without enough info to back me up.
KawiGunny
07-09-09, 12:55 PM
First. I'll never be an Achped. i can understand where he is coming from but he and I are experiencing similar things but I'm living in another part of the Marine Corps. Yeah the Marine Corps is not what I thought it was. I would be really happy If I joined the Army but the my recruiters help me loose the weight and for that I'm thankful. I'm a Marine no doubt and I have a reputation to uphold. I can't spend my whole time dwelling on stupid ****.
Four more months left and no longer am I a boot. Of course I haven't had a good pros and cons. I've ****ed people off, and it's over. I'm not a perfect person. I got a lot of senior guys hating me because I don't play thier stupid games. I still show them that I know my knowledge and I out PT my peers everyday of the week. But I'm a professional, I know my job and I do it well.
If someone in my chain of command was on this forum they would have said something to me by now. There is a lot of **** I could have posted that is absolute stupid on what "senior" LCpl's do to boots.
There are games played at all levels killer.
Sometimes we just have to play so we don't have to pay.
HurricaneRJ
07-09-09, 01:00 PM
There are games played at all levels killer.
Sometimes we just have to play so we don't have to pay.
Wise words as usual Gunny. I can see the impact of others for the decisions I choose.
KawiGunny
07-09-09, 01:07 PM
I can see the impact of others for the decisions I choose.
Very true words "oh young one".
You may be a junior Marine, but someone is always looking up to you and they will want to be just like you one day. Set a good example yourself, and you will set the Corps up for another good Marine that will follow in your footsteps.
killbodies3027
07-09-09, 01:45 PM
are you ****ting me? I understand that they can't tell one group of individuals to have a certain hair cut while the other doesn't... especially if the word used to describe the group was "boots" as there is no definition other than anyone with less time than me...
so on those grounds you are safe, but all it takes is a redefinition of who gets the high&tights and if you're ok with being the reason why everyone needs to get one... well good on ya, hope you don't bleed too easily.
as for the order, a MCO is generalized so in no uncertain terms it can be considered minimum standards, if the units want to tighten up those orders we are free to do so unless the commandant is on deck and then the MCOs supersede ours. I'm confused though why Killbodies seems to think it's ok to relax regulations by requiring a hair cut once every two weeks.
I don't care if you mean to say that you checked every two weeks, to a junior Marine that means you gave them the ability to do that. You as a Cpl are not competant authority from the way you act on here killbodies...
http://newsimg.ngfiles.com/60000/60474_Tactical_facepalm.jpg
killbodies3027
07-09-09, 01:49 PM
Sometimes you can adjust the bottom blade on your clippers and make the cutting edges closer to even on the tips. Not all clippers will work that way. I also bought one of those beard trimmer clippers. Can't remember what kind they are but they cut really close.
Also, once you have your fade, turn your clippers over and point the cutting "tips" of the blade towards your grape like you are gonna try to cut yourself with them. That helps also with getting the sides and back a little closer if you wear a high reg or high-n-tight.
Nice, thanks Gunny.
Marine84
07-09-09, 06:59 PM
LOL! Ya'll sound like a bunch of women! 3 pages of how to turn them clippers juuuuuust right - I'm tearin' up over here ya'll! (where is my frog?)
I'm sorry ya'll! (wiping tears from my eyes) I just think it's funny as hell! It's cute! :)
Dave Coup
07-09-09, 08:04 PM
I think they call that feathering. Helps get everything nice and even so the hair that's left doesn't form a ridge and you don't look like a Franciscan monk.
I straight razor the line up though, keeps the line looking very sharp and crisp and keeps stubble away longer. If anyone's in the market for one google "feather razor" those are the straight razor handles that accept razor blades. Far easier than stropping and honing your own straight razor.
They save a lot of wear and tear on the old grape for those with less than steady hands:D
I don't believe this is what the Corps has become. Rank has it's privelage. Orders regardless how stupid are made to be followed. There's a reason. Just do it. Then take it up the chain of command, if it's that big a deal. Or you can not do it, take your article 15 like a man, and keep your haircut (maybe).
PaidinBlood
07-30-09, 09:27 AM
Not trying to bust your nads on this...... but since when has this been a tradition? I retired just over a yr ago and I was a grunt for over 20 yrs. Never heard of that tradition.
Gunny I saw a variation of this..
1 At least a high n tight until your first deployment
2 Shave your head at the beginning of your first deployment (no matter your rank :D)
3 From then on, just don't look like a turd. Low regs were never that popular in the Bn; we had a bigger problem with improper ( a k a F-d up) barracks cuts and Marines not trimming the top. They'd end up with a duck's ass sticking out of their cover...
drillinstructor
07-30-09, 12:18 PM
I think someone needs to go back and read the order. There is no such thing as a low reg haircut anymore. Just like hands in the pockets is in the new order now and etc. If your hair is protruding out of your cover, you are not in regulation to the order so GO GET A DAMN HAIRCUT.
PaidinBlood
07-30-09, 12:24 PM
I think someone needs to go back and read the order. There is no such thing as a low reg haircut anymore. Just like hands in the pockets is in the new order now and etc. If your hair is protruding out of your cover, you are not in regulation to the order so GO GET A DAMN HAIRCUT.
I know...they always got fixed...:banana:
drillinstructor
07-30-09, 12:25 PM
I wish a Marine would throw an order at me after I tell him to get a haircut. I guarantee it will be the last time he does.
Since he wants to talk about orders, let’s talk
Does a Marine rate to eat lunch by a Marine Corps Order? No…good we don’t have lunch anymore.
Does an MCO say I cant work you until you can no longer stand or think? NO …good lets work.
Does an MCO say I can’t have 30 duties in the barracks at the same time? NO…good duty it is.
Hell I could go on but I am sure you see my point
GET YOUR HAIR CUT I AM SURE YOU HAVE A LIFE OUTSIDE THE MARINE CORPS AND I GUARANTEE THAT LIFE IS OVER IF A MARINE REFUSES TO GET A HAIRCUT THAT I FEEL DOES NOT MEET THE STANDARD OF THE UNIT.
DI
Alisium
07-30-09, 12:29 PM
I always thought MCO's, in many instances, were minimums.
And lawful order. That's a weak attempt to apply something that's mostly there for moral dilemmas to something as menial as a hair cut.
a lawful order is something that won't put you or anyone else in harms way... to tell you to get a haircut will not kill you or anyone else... nor will it damage any equipement.
as for what the MSgt said... I feel enlightened... I feel I have a knack for making "fun" ways of having Marines follow orders but those are great!!! thanks Top!
Meserole08orah
07-30-09, 01:07 PM
If you're within the regulation for grooming standards then your good... I don't think most would be within regs after two weeks.. 0-4 is still the reg, is it not?
the reg is 0-3 evenly graduated (spelling??) i wont forget the day we had to learn that it was stupid cuz im a female but i understand now. but ya
your NCO/SNCOIC can make their own orders. its not hazing because he will prolly get the same haircut if told. but dont throw the H word around like that. I'm dealin with sh!t like that now with a new PFC. but the easiest thing to do is go online and the order for hair cuts. and show it to him. quick easy and you cant get yelled at and you have proof. i have that with my tattoos.
ZeR0Gamblrr
01-28-17, 12:19 PM
I'm also an 03 and I rocked the high fade throughout ITB and as well as the first part of the fleet but I got poged out my first 6 months so of course I was rocking mid and low fades. I hit my first grunt unit and we rate mediums yet my Sgt always gets on my ass about my haircut saying it's a low fade and made me read to him the MCO on hair regulations and is trying to say my hair is unsightly protruding when it doesn't because I keep it short on the sides. They can't do anything about it so just do you and keep it in regs.
SGT7477
01-28-17, 06:49 PM
Remember Sgt's are always right, shave your head for him, Semper Fidelis.