Saluting folded flag?

[KillKittens]

Hi yall, got a somewhat stupid question to ask.

When you're outside in uniform, and a folded national ensign is carried by you, do you salute? I can't seem to get a straight answer out of anyone.

According to Marine Corps Order P10520.3b, nothing is said at all about saluting a folded ensign, but I understand that doesn't mean you don't do it. Saluting the flag at other times is a simple and straightforward affair, but I can't get a definitive answer for this one. Thanks for any and all help,
- Rich

[NoRemorse]

Not if its encased.

[Supersquishy]

10th General Order-
To salute all officers, and all colors and standards not cased.

[KillKittens]

General Orders apply when on post. In this situation, you're not on post. It is not cased, but folded. Thanks for the quick responses though.
- Rich

[Old Marine]

When in doubt, salute. When in doubt, If it moves, salute it.

[KillKittens]

When in doubt, salute. When in doubt, If it moves, salute it.

Word up Gunny.

When in doubt, if it moves again, shoot it again.

My purspose, however, is to remove the doubt altogether, so as to be able to provide the right answers to my junior Marines when I pick up.
- Rich

[ecfree]

KillKittens you need to beef up your PROFILE...:usmc:

[thewookie]

When in doubt whip it out.

If you are so worried about finding the order then look it up yourself. You didn't expect Marines in here to be quoting MCOs verbatim, did you?

[Chumley]

Still researching, however the best difinition of a "cased" standard is:

Cased colors or standards are those which are furled and enclosed in a protective covering.

Although a flag may be folded, by the above definition it is uncased and rates the salute ( or the POA if out of uniform ) when is passes you or you pass it, 6 paces before, 6 paces after. I might also infer that a folded flag in a shadow box is cased, but....

As the Gunny stated, when in doubt SALUTE.

If I find more, I'll post it.

SFi
C

[FistFu68]

:evilgrin: Do what THE GUNNY says Salute Old Glory what'ev the case may be :evilgrin: :iwo:

[killbodies3027]

KillKittens your name is wrong, it should be Babies. I'm also guilty of making the same mistake.

[KawiGunny]

General Orders apply when on post. In this situation, you're not on post. It is not cased, but folded. Thanks for the quick responses though.
- Rich


"When on post"...... You a Marine or in another branch?

If you are a Marine, where would you be off base and in uniform?

However..... If you are in uniform and covered......salute.

Just because the order doesn't say anything about it being folded doesn't matter. The order doesn't say anything about it not being folded on the flag pole does it? Yet you still salute it then.

[ONTOS66]

Think it out people! You salute the flag as it is raised and lowered. You do not salute it every time you pass the flag pole. You salute the colors as they pass during a parade, you do not salute the flag sewn on uniform sleeves. Rendering the salute depends on the circumstances. A folded flag, for all intents and purposes is the same as a cased one. When the colors are lowered they are saluted, and then folded - you don't salute the detail carrying the secured flag. At a military funeral, the flag is removed from the casket and folded for presentation to the family - the family receives a salute honoring the service of the family member and their loss. But that flag is not saluted. Somewhere in the dark recesses of my library I might even have the correct reference, but can't find it at the moment. This is a good on-line one for general purposes:
http://www.usflag.org/flagetiquette.html

[Supersquishy]

ONTOS66 your profile needs some spit-shining.

[BR34]

When the colors are lowered they are saluted, and then folded - you don't salute the detail carrying the secured flag.

Actually, in that situation, if for some reason I was walking by the detail, I WOULD salute the flag they are carrying.


At a military funeral, the flag is removed from the casket and folded for presentation to the family - the family receives a salute honoring the service of the family member and their loss. But that flag is not saluted.

The flag is definately saluted in this situation. Everyone in the rifle detail get's "Present Arms" when the flag is raised off the casket. The flag is folded, and the senior Marine present salutes it before passing it off to the family.

[MLMonk]

You do not salute it every time you pass the flag pole.

I was told you salute the flag when you pass.

[mcvet57103]

I think Kill was refering to the color guard passing in the morning on the way to raise colors. In that case I would say yes you salute as the color guard passes. SF

[KillKittens]

I think I've found a suitable answer to this debate, thanks to input from you guys and from SNCO's and a WO in my unit.

There is no order to salute a folded ensign. The MCOs specifically states when to salute, and saluting a folded ensign is not part of them.

BUT: You are a Marine. Saluting is and has always been a way to show respect. If a fellow enlisted Marine jumps on a grenade to save our fire team, I have every right to salute him, EVEN though he doesn't rate a salute as per the MCOs.

HENCE: Saluting a folded flag may not be an order, but it is a sign of respect nonetheless, and when you are saluting the flag, you are not just saluting cotton and polyester stitched to represent our nation. You are saluting all of the men, women, children, Devil Dogs, sailors, soldiers, coasties, and airmen that died for each other, their fellow Americans, and their country. You are paying your respects for those that came before you. You are acknowledging their joint sacrifices in a manner such that you take a second out of your day to remember.

In conclusion: You don't have to salute, just as you're not required to be heroic or brave. You're not required to drink and raise hell at the local bar. You're not required to instill a sense of respect for the armed forces in the civilians you meet, but guess what? You're a Marine, and it's expected.
- Rich

[thewookie]

I think I've found a suitable answer to this debate, thanks to input from you guys and from SNCO's and a WO in my unit.

There is no order to salute a folded ensign. The MCOs specifically states when to salute, and saluting a folded ensign is not part of them.

BUT: You are a Marine. Saluting is and has always been a way to show respect. If a fellow enlisted Marine jumps on a grenade to save our fire team, I have every right to salute him, EVEN though he doesn't rate a salute as per the MCOs.

HENCE: Saluting a folded flag may not be an order, but it is a sign of respect nonetheless, and when you are saluting the flag, you are not just saluting cotton and polyester stitched to represent our nation. You are saluting all of the men, women, children, Devil Dogs, sailors, soldiers, coasties, and airmen that died for each other, their fellow Americans, and their country. You are paying your respects for those that came before you. You are acknowledging their joint sacrifices in a manner such that you take a second out of your day to remember.

In conclusion: You don't have to salute, just as you're not required to be heroic or brave. You're not required to drink and raise hell at the local bar. You're not required to instill a sense of respect for the armed forces in the civilians you meet, but guess what? You're a Marine, and it's expected.
- Rich


I'm smelling something isn't right here.... :evilgrin:

[sparkie]

A furled flag is out of service,,,,,,Unless it is being presented at a funeral. Then it is stand at attention, unless you are presenting. After presenting,,,,, the presenter salutes. You stand at attention if you are not presenting. Otherwise, a furled flag is not in service. You do not salute. Always salute a flag on duty. When it passes,,,,not when you pass. Any more questions?

[Petz]

yes, sparkie... good way of explaining it. the Marines/service members in the parade don't salute the ensign, those it is passing are saluting it. It is present arms/hand salute when in formation. and I really don't know where I'm going with this... as this topic has been covered completely... I think I'm just dragging it on like you all drag on some of these other lame,dead-ass threads.....

oh and PFC, if you ever talk to a SNCO like you're best buddies with them like that again I'll find out who your Plt Sgt is and let him know you think his rank doesn't mean sh!t.

[KillKittens]

Long and the short, like most of the Marines of way more experience and knowledge have already said. Who cares if there's an order, salute your nation's pride. Dead thread.
- Rich

[Petz]

so I have less knowledge and experience???! are you at MRP or something?!

[Chumley]

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I was told you salute the flag when you pass.


Correct. ONTOS66 was off on that statement. Unless you are well away from the flagpole, when you pass within a reasonable distance ( 6 pace rule ) you do salute.

SFi
C

[Petz]

you only do it once each morning and afternoon..... if you do it during colors and taps you're set, this is why you don't usually salute it 900 times a day.

[ONTOS66]

No, ONTOS66 WAS NOT OFF .. read the quote. I said YOU DO NOT salute the flag pole every time you pass it. No requirement in any reg. I don't give a rats ass if some poser has his own opinion or interpretation on the matter.

Since the original question was do you salute a folded flag. NO. I'm sure someone will have a difference of opinion, and there are all sorts of what ifs, but the answer to the question as stated is NO.

In doubt, check appropriate MCO. All else is bar room bs.

[ZSKI]

We salute the folded flag on funeral details so yes you do.

[ssgtt32]

The only thing I have to say about saluting is, when i was on active duty, the Bn Hq Had a National ensign and the unit colors flying outside the front hatch, if you got caught not saluting upon entering and leaving you were handed your ass!

Maurice

[CplGiraffe]

Another thing to add to the argument of you do salute: in a retirement ceremony and the folded flag is passed through the ranks, they all salute the flag before and after holding it.

[FistFu68]

:beer: :iwo::beer: