A Soft Core Marine Corps?

[ColdBlooded]

So as you may already know, the Marine Corps is changing its ways? Tell me your own opinion as to how and what bootcamp could be like in the next 10 years.

[temarti]

The next 10 years there will be someone asking the same question with the same perception. PFC in your 6-7 months of service what has changed so drastically that you would ask this?

[Phantom Blooper]

Okinawa............:evilgrin:

[3522]

the Marine Corps is changing its ways?

I highly fukin' doubt it.

[ColdBlooded]

Ever remember talking to an older Marine (60-70) and him telling you the ways of his boot camp experience and you think to yourself "Wow I had it easy." Ever since SSgt Glass and Mothers of America I have heard a world of changes.

[echo3oscar1833]

Sorry brother, but your still a boot, worry about other things. Im sure the old salts would say the same thing to me. So Im passing it to you, as they would to me carry the fuc% on :D

[Sgt Jim]

There will never be a soft Marine Corps,nuff said.

[BR34]

The Marine Corps is already ****ing soft. What planet are you all living on? Hell, a male Marine can get kicked out for saying the wrong thing, merely in the presence, of the wrong female Marine. Hardcore...bull****!

Political correctness, sexism, racism, gayism, tattoism, hazing...the "hardcore" Marine Corps is long gone.

[HurricaneRJ]

Depends on who you ask.

Getting soft?? Yes. I don't think it's the Marine Corps, it's just the way of the times. If society was like back in the 1800 where men were men then maybe so. But with all of society today, were harder than everyone else. Not many people can say they learned by having a broom handle stuck up their ass.

[Old Marine]

Who the hell is SSgt. Glass????????????

[echo3oscar1833]

Jerrod M. Glass was a drill instructor at Marine Corps Recruit Depot San Diego (MCRDSD). He, along with a number of other drill instructors, was charged with abusing recruits. In November 2007,...

[echo3oscar1833]

Pvt Glass was released on 23FEB08, two months early, from the brig. The convening authority (http://sja.hqmc.usmc.mil/JAM/MJFACTSHTS.htm), in this case the the commanding general of MCRDSD, Brigadier General Angela Salinas (http://www.mcrdsd.usmc.mil/bios/CG_bio.htm), has the authority to grant clemency for has reason she sees fit. In Pvt Glass’s case she made the decision to reduce the amount of confinement he was required to serve.

[GSEMarine94]

Has the training become easier? That is what defines Marines as the toughest military branch.

[NoRemorse]

Has the training become easier? That is what defines Marines as the toughest military branch.

The recruits have gotten whinier...

[thewookie]

Hey Marine - go ask your command Sgt. Major what he thinks about your little quandary.

Push up -

One, two, three, four, I love the Marine Corps
One
One, two, three, four, I love the Marine Corps
Two
One, two, three, four, I love the Marine Corps
Three....

[BR34]

Has the training become easier? That is what defines Marines as the toughest military branch.

Are you serious? Marines today ***** about getting the wrong kind of MRE. Marines of old made donkey meat stew that they found in the country side on their way to an objective.

The only people that think the Marine Corps is "hardcore" are old salts that aren't in anymore, so they don't know the ways of the Corps as it is today, and people that led a very easy ("softcore") life BEFORE joining the Corps.

[thewookie]

The Marine Corps is already ****ing soft. What planet are you all living on? Hell, a male Marine can get kicked out for saying the wrong thing, merely in the presence, of the wrong female Marine. Hardcore...bull****!

Political correctness, sexism, racism, gayism, tattoism, hazing...the "hardcore" Marine Corps is long gone.


Whatsamatta Marine - did they take away your ammo today and make you snap in all day on a white and black barrel and that is why you're grumpy?

Hardcorps is gone from society, we live in a society of azz-kissing-limp-weenie mofo's - and because of this, our-beloved Corps has been affected.

[boomer56328]

Yeah and they b***hed because it was the wrong kind of donkey. It's part of the Marine Corps. Its when the Marines stops b***hing that you need to worry.

[BR34]

Whatsamatta Marine - did they take away your ammo today and make you snap in all day on a white and black barrel and that is why you're grumpy?



Nah, I've got a reloading touret press in my garage, no one could ever take anything away from me, that's already mine. In all seriousness, I'm not grumpy, this is just the way I am.


Hardcorps is gone from society, we live in a society of azz-kissing-limp-weenie mofo's - and because of this, our-beloved Corps has been affected.You're right. I would bet money that the Marine Corps would have a mutiny on it's hands if video games were banned.

[BR34]

Its when the Marines stops b***hing that you need to worry.

Explain that to me. I hear it all the time, that a happy Marine is a *****ing Marine. But I've never understood it. How is complaining good, and not complaining a problem?

[boomer56328]

I didn't say it was good. I said it was a part of it. I know if I didn't like something I let people know about it. I wasn't disrespectful and I did it anyway if I was told to after giving them my 2 cents. I guess the difference is just just b***hing to do it and having real problem with something. Plus nobody likes doing the bs stuff. I didn't have a problem with guys venting frustration as long as it didn't get in the way of getting the job done.

[BR34]

I understand that, but what I was asking you about is where you said if Marines STOP *****ing then we should be worried.

[boomer56328]

My only reply to that is that if they stopped that means they just stopped giving a s**t. I also know that doesn't apply to all of them and some just are complainers. Your right though, I heard that my whole career and it sounded good since I did my fair share of it during my career. My experience was that even the most vocal s**tbird buckled down when the time came. That is a huge difference between the Corps and the jobs I've had since leaving.

[ENGR1371]

My 2 Cents:
I personally believe that the MC is getting soft, I remember going through BC in 1988 & the DI's saying that they couldn't strike us, as the DI pulled me out of the shower by my web belt for running my mouth, choking the hell out of me! He said that we were the "Pepsi Generation" & That "MOA, : Mothers of America " will get us killed! I & many others got hit, kicked & punched! It probably saved my life many times for all that discipline! We were trained by Vietnam & Beruit Vets! It can't get any better than that! Our SDI said: " Take a look to your left, & then your right, you boys are going to War. It's going to be a Mid-East Nation!" In 1990 I was on my way to Saudi & then to Kafji. My SDI was right!
Semper Fi!

[Crusader20]

In 10 years time, the Marine boot camp will resemble a combo of the Army and the Air Force boot camps. A/C squad bays, stress cards, shorter amount of time, badges for everything, catered meals, weekends off, cell phone for every recruit, no marching, no field time, no live weapons shooting (since there will be no weapons and no 2nd admendment), and Drill instructors will ask instead of demand.

And that is IF, we are not converted into a the "one" true religion.

[thewookie]

I hear what you guys are saying, but I think a point that's being missed here is we have a mighty fine Marine being produced today, perhaps, dare I say, a better Marine then years ago.

Marines want to be hardcorps until hardcorps is in their face and down their throat. You want hard corps after bootcamp go MARSOC, tell me they are soft.

The training is better, the gear is better, and the finished product... is likely better. Sure they don't hit em, and soon enough there might be stress cards, but it doesn't mean the product suffered. As tough as it is to say, and swallow. Look at anything, or most anything and over time the finished product is better - whether it's an automobile, TV, phone, or a US Marine that we are talking about.

I'm not dissing any Marine from any generation, so easy on me when your fingers hit the keyboard after reading this.

[SGT7477]

I hope we never go soft, by being the best we have to be sharp and hard.

[Old Marine]

My 2 Cents:
I personally believe that the MC is getting soft, I remember going through BC in 1988 & the DI's saying that they couldn't strike us, as the DI pulled me out of the shower by my web belt for running my mouth, choking the hell out of me! He said that we were the "Pepsi Generation" & That "MOA, : Mothers of America " will get us killed! I & many others got hit, kicked & punched! It probably saved my life many times for all that discipline! We were trained by Vietnam & Beruit Vets! It can't get any better than that! Our SDI said: " Take a look to your left, & then your right, you boys are going to War. It's going to be a Mid-East Nation!" In 1990 I was on my way to Saudi & then to Kafji. My SDI was right!
Semper Fi!

If this guy would have been caught doing this he would have been relieved and would have deserved whatever the CO gave him. I was on the Drill Field from 1966-1973 and we had a LtCol. Lawrence for a CO and you had better not get caught laying hands on recruits along with calling them anything but recruits. If he heard it, you would say goodby to your duty belt and campaign cover.

[Old Marine]

Pvt Glass sounds like he got what he deserved.

[BR34]

If this guy would have been caught doing this he would have been relieved and would have deserved whatever the CO gave him. I was on the Drill Field from 1966-1973 and we had a LtCol. Lawrence for a CO and you had better not get caught laying hands on recruits along with calling them anything but recruits. If he heard it, you would say goodby to your duty belt and campaign cover.

You mean yall couldn't call recruits "piece of ****" in the 70s, Gunny? "Piece of sh*t" was everybody's name in my platoon!

[Old Marine]

You mean yall couldn't call recruits "piece of ****" in the 70s, Gunny? "Piece of sh*t" was everybody's name in my platoon!

Not within earshot of LtCol. Lawrence, who would usually be lurking around behind a palm tree or at the Mess Hall when you went to chow. This guy was a fanatic about the SOP.

[GSEMarine94]

Explain that to me. I hear it all the time, that a happy Marine is a *****ing Marine. But I've never understood it. How is complaining good, and not complaining a problem?

Try reading Utter's Battalion by Lt. Col. Alex Lee USMC Ret about 2/7's tour in Vietnam from 65-66. He has a pretty good explanation about Marine's *****ing, basically a happy Marine *****es, a scared Marine doesn't say anything. So when Marines stop *****ing it is time to worry.
It also points out that Marines *****ing is not a new thing.

[charm1110]

I went to bootcamp in '85. My Drill Instructors were hard on us but not stupid about it they covered each others a#$%es and kept a pretty good lookout on who was near the platoon area and adjusted their tactics accordingly, I imagine it's the same now. Bootcamp was hard in the past and will continue to be hard for as long as there are Marines for Drill Instructors.

As for after Bootcamp I think it's still hard. Maybe these guys don't have to spit shine boots or press and starch their utilities but I'm sure they do alot more than sit around the campfire singing kumbaya. The whole argument of now vs. then is irrelevant. The world was different then than it is now for the Marine Corps. to stay on top it too must constantly evolve and learn to use current technologies to it's advantage.

Motto 1ST Bn. 5th Marines

"Make Peace or Die"

Motto Bravo Co. 1/5 circa 1986-89

" Get Hard or Die!"

[greybeard]

The recruits have gotten whinier...

Recruits are allowed to whine now? When the hell did that happen?

[Pete0331]

The Marine Corps is getting soft. <br />
<br />
Recent events have put the USMC under close scrutiny. <br />
3/1 in Fallujah, MarSOC in Afghanistan, and other little incidences are examples of this. <br />
The GWOT in...

[ColdBlooded]

The only way to a solution on this s**t is getting what you were asked to do done in the first place. Maybe you'll never know what you're doing something for but obviously it's for a reason. That's when people start bit**ing, but in the end they are doing what they were bit**ing about while still bit**ing about it. Right now we are having Marines here in Okinawa smoking a substance called Spice (Similar to Marijuana but with no THC or anything that can be found via **** test.) The people being caught are getting battalion NJPs for it, yet they still argue that it is not marijuana. Guess what? Many fu**ing people are complaining about this matter because they feel it is safe and it is not Marijuana. I have come to a conclusion, I did not join the Marine Corps to listen to people complain and ***** all Godd**m day about small ****. That's all I hear and if this continues, 4 years is it for me.

[HurricaneRJ]

Okay heres a different between *****ing and really *****ing.

Ex. 1.

Just got done from 6 days in the field at Mojave Viper. A Co. is the only one out in the field and the next training exercise is 9 days away. Sure thing, we go back to Camp Wilson shower-up resupply on tobacco and baby wipes and some masturbation and were all happy ready to go. Wrong, CO tells us that we will be staying out in the field for 9 more days doing classes out in the middle of the desert waiting for the rest of the battalion to start the BAC.

Now in my mind, why in the **** do I have to wait out here for 9 more days for a three day field op???? What preventing 13 7 ton trucks taking us back to the rear let alone, I was only told to pack for 5 days to begin with. Tell me BR34 you wouldn't ***** out loud or complain just a little? I was out in Mojave Viper wearing 1 pair of socks for 12 days straight. Bet your ****ing ass I complained about it. Everyone is back taking showers eating at the WC and my Co. was out there in the sun getting tanned, wearing the same dirty ass skiviyes OOHHRAHH Marine Corps.

Ex. 2
Marines are getting taped for the new BCP program. One Marine comes 19%. He *****es a moans about being 1% over and says that it's impossible for him to get in standards and what not. Thats just a Marine *****ing and becoming really annoying. That type is no good.

If you feel that were softer from the Marines before us, then yes.
I don't think any Marine here could phantom living out of tents and marching every ****ing where they went with like the Soldiers in the Civil War. Want to march from VA down on to GA????? Think you would be all motivated OHHRAAH kill em all??? I don't think so. Wanna go back on the old wooden boats, only time eating is in the dark so you don't know what your eating???

Were are not as phyiscally hard as we used to be. But as time goes on things, get better and society becomes smarter. They didn't produce the "Strategic Corporal" as they do today. Are capabilites allow us to let go of somethings.

[Sgt Jim]

When the S**t hits the fan ,who do you want covering your back,I want a Marine,I want a Doc,New or old Corps,Let them B***h all they want.

[BR34]

Okay heres a different between *****ing and really *****ing.

Ex. 1.

Just got done from 6 days in the field at Mojave Viper. A Co. is the only one out in the field and the next training exercise is 9 days away. Sure thing, we go back to Camp Wilson shower-up resupply on tobacco and baby wipes and some masturbation and were all happy ready to go. Wrong, CO tells us that we will be staying out in the field for 9 more days doing classes out in the middle of the desert waiting for the rest of the battalion to start the BAC.

Now in my mind, why in the **** do I have to wait out here for 9 more days for a three day field op???? What preventing 13 7 ton trucks taking us back to the rear let alone, I was only told to pack for 5 days to begin with. Tell me BR34 you wouldn't ***** out loud or complain just a little? I was out in Mojave Viper wearing 1 pair of socks for 12 days straight. Bet your ****ing ass I complained about it. Everyone is back taking showers eating at the WC and my Co. was out there in the sun getting tanned, wearing the same dirty ass skiviyes OOHHRAHH Marine Corps.

Ex. 2
Marines are getting taped for the new BCP program. One Marine comes 19%. He *****es a moans about being 1% over and says that it's impossible for him to get in standards and what not. Thats just a Marine *****ing and becoming really annoying. That type is no good.

If you feel that were softer from the Marines before us, then yes.
I don't think any Marine here could phantom living out of tents and marching every ****ing where they went with like the Soldiers in the Civil War. Want to march from VA down on to GA????? Think you would be all motivated OHHRAAH kill em all??? I don't think so. Wanna go back on the old wooden boats, only time eating is in the dark so you don't know what your eating???

Were are not as phyiscally hard as we used to be. But as time goes on things, get better and society becomes smarter. They didn't produce the "Strategic Corporal" as they do today. Are capabilites allow us to let go of somethings.

Did you sign open contract? Or did you WANT to be a grunt?

To me, the whole "Softcore" isn't even about old corps vs new corps, or army vs Marines vs Air Force, etc, the Marine Corps is softer, in general than most jobs I've held. The Marine Corps is one of the easiest, and most pussified jobs I've ever had. I'm 27 years old, and there's actually certain Marines I can't even use profanity around without getting in trouble. I can't argue with someone without getting in trouble. I could go on and on and on.

You all think PT is making us "hardcore"? Are you ****ing kidding me? There's a new PFC here, been out of boot camp for 3 months, and the ****er ran a damn 37 min 3 mile Tuesday! He ain't broken, and he admitted to us that his D.I.s pushed him through. Is he hardcore just because he's wearing Marine Corps cammies?

I'm surrounded by timid, whispering, talk with their heads down, *****es, day in and day out, and I don't consider a single one of them to be "hard".

It's the Marines that swear up and down to everyone about how "hardcore" they are that come to work Monday morn with lumps on their head because they got the dog s*it stomped out of them at a bar by some civilian, while they were trying out something they learned at a brown belt course.

[GSEMarine94]

Did you sign open contract? Or did you WANT to be a grunt?

To me, the whole "Softcore" isn't even about old corps vs new corps, or army vs Marines vs Air Force, etc, the Marine Corps is softer, in general than most jobs I've held. The Marine Corps is one of the easiest, and most pussified jobs I've ever had. I'm 27 years old, and there's actually certain Marines I can't even use profanity around without getting in trouble. I can't argue with someone without getting in trouble. I could go on and on and on.

You all think PT is making us "hardcore"? Are you ****ing kidding me? There's a new PFC here, been out of boot camp for 3 months, and the ****er ran a damn 37 min 3 mile Tuesday! He ain't broken, and he admitted to us that his D.I.s pushed him through. Is he hardcore just because he's wearing Marine Corps cammies?

I'm surrounded by timid, whispering, talk with their heads down, *****es, day in and day out, and I don't consider a single one of them to be "hard".

It's the Marines that swear up and down to everyone about how "hardcore" they are that come to work Monday morn with lumps on their head because they got the dog s*it stomped out of them at a bar by some civilian, while they were trying out something they learned at a brown belt course.

So are you saying that being able to swear makes someone hard? I don't know what kind of jobs you have had but most of the ones I have don't appreciate swearing, it shows a major lack of professionalism and tact. And I have worked in plenty of different fields, from construction equipment mechanic, pizza cook, to architect, as well as being a Marine and now in training to be an Army officer.
To me being hard is the person who under strenous conditions is able to complete a task that most can not, the Marines can still go into any enviroment with half the support and supplies of any other military branch and get the job done.

[ENGR1371]

Did you sign open contract? Or did you WANT to be a grunt?

To me, the whole "Softcore" isn't even about old corps vs new corps, or army vs Marines vs Air Force, etc, the Marine Corps is softer, in general than most jobs I've held. The Marine Corps is one of the easiest, and most pussified jobs I've ever had. I'm 27 years old, and there's actually certain Marines I can't even use profanity around without getting in trouble. I can't argue with someone without getting in trouble. I could go on and on and on.

You all think PT is making us "hardcore"? Are you ****ing kidding me? There's a new PFC here, been out of boot camp for 3 months, and the ****er ran a damn 37 min 3 mile Tuesday! He ain't broken, and he admitted to us that his D.I.s pushed him through. Is he hardcore just because he's wearing Marine Corps cammies?

I'm surrounded by timid, whispering, talk with their heads down, *****es, day in and day out, and I don't consider a single one of them to be "hard".

It's the Marines that swear up and down to everyone about how "hardcore" they are that come to work Monday morn with lumps on their head because they got the dog s*it stomped out of them at a bar by some civilian, while they were trying out something they learned at a brown belt course.

I couldn't have said it any better myself! I work with a lot of Marines & go to our League meetings & you can't even raise your voice or cuss! Everyone is always offended in some way or the other. Having my DI smack the **** out of me was the best thing that happened to me! It instilled a lot of discipline into me that taught me to be "HARDCORE!" It taught me to take a hit without backing down, it made me stronger! The DI's taught me to stay alive! No matter what situation I ever got myself into, I'm alive & got myself out of because of what the DI's did to me! I got my world rocked more than once, I deserved it! So I say to you all: Semper Fi!

[Twitchell]

The Corp will still be hard Core if two very important things that are going on right now keep happening.

Wanna be Marines are enlisting "RIGHT NOW" during a time of war when they will most likely be deployed. All the while the glory image, and Patriotic attitude of the American public is now gone, and now scrutinize it because it's no longer the popular thing to do.

On the same note, the Marine Corps is the only branch that isn't seriously struggling to meet enlistment, or re-enlistment numbers. They have pretty much met they're goal over the last couple of years to raise the average number from 175,000 Marines to 202,000 Marines to boot.

My nephew went active with 2/5 a couple of years ago. I know some other kids that have as well. One that just graduated 3 months ago. I would'nt hesitate for a second to go into combat with them. Through our Marine Corp League I know some hella motivated Devil Pups that can't get enough motto and still have a couple of years before they'll ship out.

The new Marines I know, "even if they say the Corp has gotten soft", are still damn fine Marines. Why? Because of they're heart. When it comes down to it, you can't become a Marine without the training. But you can't train a Marine to have heart. You can't even beet it into em.

Weather it gets softer or not, it is the Marines them selves that are going to make the future Marine Corps, not the guidelines. One of the best ways to help accomplish this is for the old Marines to continue to tell storys, to teach them history, and to explain to them that it means more to you then anything, maybe with the exception of your familys. In some cases maybe even more. Believe it or not we are doing that right now on here. With Marine family members and wanna be's looking to us for advise. However if we want to see it go down in flames, then keep saying how it's no longer the same Marine Corp, or in some cases not the Corp at all. That's what's going to kill it. Not the recruits.

[HurricaneRJ]

Did you sign open contract? Or did you WANT to be a grunt?

To me, the whole "Softcore" isn't even about old corps vs new corps, or army vs Marines vs Air Force, etc, the Marine Corps is softer, in general than most jobs I've held. The Marine Corps is one of the easiest, and most pussified jobs I've ever had. I'm 27 years old, and there's actually certain Marines I can't even use profanity around without getting in trouble. I can't argue with someone without getting in trouble. I could go on and on and on.

You all think PT is making us "hardcore"? Are you ****ing kidding me? There's a new PFC here, been out of boot camp for 3 months, and the ****er ran a damn 37 min 3 mile Tuesday! He ain't broken, and he admitted to us that his D.I.s pushed him through. Is he hardcore just because he's wearing Marine Corps cammies?

I'm surrounded by timid, whispering, talk with their heads down, *****es, day in and day out, and I don't consider a single one of them to be "hard".

It's the Marines that swear up and down to everyone about how "hardcore" they are that come to work Monday morn with lumps on their head because they got the dog s*it stomped out of them at a bar by some civilian, while they were trying out something they learned at a brown belt course.
I damn sure signed up to be a grunt, and sometimes I beat my head against the wall and sometimes I'm glad I signed up for it. My 4 years wasn't meant to be skate. I realize that but in a moment of tough times some people dig deep and make it through. I never failed a hump, nor quit during team events.

My first night sleeping in Boot Camp I wanted to go home, missed my rack real quick, but I stuck with it, unlike the other ****birds that got dropped and went home because they couldn't take it because they couldn't stand the D.I.s torment. I ALWAYS wanted to grow wings and fly home when I knew I was heading to the Pit. But I stuck with it and made it, and from that I'm a stronger person mentally and physically:evilgrin:.

SOI is the other place where the committed stay and the weak go home. Never did drugs on leave and definitely didn't try to cut my wrist like a few in my class did. Was I *****ing, getting only 4 hours of sleep in the field and made to stand two hours in the cold in formation. Yeah, tell me Marines don't ***** about that. So I'm a weak little *****????? I will never compare myself to the Marines of Vietnam. Just read this months Leatherneck about 2/4, those Marines were HARDCORE no doubt. All of them showed courage back then and we still do today. Look at all the Bronze, Silver stars being awarded today. We got brothers going through HELL and back to save a fallen Marine and I definetly won't say thats not HARDCORE. Yeah, so what they ***** back in Garrison but I never heard of a Marine ***** and moan when the JOB needs to get done.

Fallujah 04' is a perfect example of what type of Marines we have today. Knowing full well that insurgents are in the city waiting for you, knowing that you possibly won't come home, and they still went. That to me is Hardcore. I joined the Marine Corps based on those actions of those Marines. I looked at videos when I was 16 years old and I ask myself "Do I have what it takes to be a Marine?" Well 5 years later now I'm here in the very same place where Marines have fought and died.

You haven't been around the whole Marine Corps. Beacuse I know for a fact that in the grunts, you talk back you get hit. Know for a fact that you loose gear, you get ****ed. Know for a fact that my mouth has been bloodied from going in the tree line. Got a problem with a Marine? Go inside the room take off your blouse and your just two men settling it out.
I don't know what your around but come to a grunt unit and see what really goes on.

[BR34]

So are you saying that being able to swear makes someone hard?

No, not at all. But it is def. pussified for the Marine Corps to ban profanity. And in my eyes pussified is the opposite of hardcore.


Marines can still go into any enviroment with half the support and supplies of any other military branch and get the job done. I'm not arguing that the Marine Corps can't get a job done. I'm not comparing the Marine Corps to other branches. I'm saying, in general, Marines are anything but hard. Better than the Army? Sure. But is that really saying much?

[BR34]

I damn sure signed up to be a grunt, and sometimes I beat my head against the wall and sometimes I'm glad I signed up for it. My 4 years wasn't meant to be skate. I realize that but in a moment of tough times some people dig deep and make it through. I never failed a hump, nor quit during team events.

My first night sleeping in Boot Camp I wanted to go home, missed my rack real quick, but I stuck with it, unlike the other ****birds that got dropped and went home because they couldn't take it because they couldn't stand the D.I.s torment. I ALWAYS wanted to grow wings and fly home when I knew I was heading to the Pit. But I stuck with it and made it, and from that I'm a stronger person mentally and physically:evilgrin:.

SOI is the other place where the committed stay and the weak go home. Never did drugs on leave and definitely didn't try to cut my wrist like a few in my class did. Was I *****ing, getting only 4 hours of sleep in the field and made to stand two hours in the cold in formation. Yeah, tell me Marines don't ***** about that. So I'm a weak little *****?????

No, that stuff doesn't make you a weak *****. I wasn't speaking about you when I made that comment, because I don't know you. I was talking about Marines I work with, and I thought I made that clear when I said "I'm surrounded by timid, whispering, talk with their heads down, *****es, day in and day out, and I don't consider a single one of them to be "hard"."

But nothing you just listed makes you hardcore, as far as I'm concerned. It means you did your job, simple as that.


but I never heard of a Marine ***** and moan when the JOB needs to get done. I don't believe that for one mili-second.


You haven't been around the whole Marine Corps.No Marine has been around the WHOLE Marine Corps. I don't need to travel to every base or be a part of every unit in the Marine Corps to be able to form opinions of Marines based on the things I've seen.


I don't know what your around but come to a grunt unit and see what really goes on. To come see Marines fight? Do you honestly think that's something that only goes on in grunt units? The only thing a bloody mouth means to me is you should have zigged when you zagged. Next time try stranglin the culprit with your motivated killer hardcore MCMAP belt.

[HurricaneRJ]

But nothing you just listed makes you hardcore, as far as I'm concerned. It means you did your job, simple as that.

To come see Marines fight? Do you honestly think that's something that only goes on in grunt units? The only thing a bloody mouth means to me is you should have zigged when you zagged. Next time try stranglin the culprit with your motivated killer hardcore MCMAP belt.

I'm not saying that I'm a hardcore Marine, I'm far from it.

As for seeing what grunts do. I mean the training, yeah Lima 5 is pretty basic to every Marine who has been through SOI-E. I guarantee you haven't done a lot of Ranges when it comes to doing platoon attacks and Company sized attacks.

Maybe it's the attitude that us grunts have. I've seen Marines do a lot of amazing things on Ranges and ask Accord or Woody what they've seen in Afghanistan, they've seen a lot more than I have but to say that the whole Marine Corps is weak and soft is bull****.

[BR34]

I'm not saying that I'm a hardcore Marine, I'm far from it.

As for seeing what grunts do. I mean the training, yeah Lima 5 is pretty basic to every Marine who has been through SOI-E. I guarantee you haven't done a lot of Ranges when it comes to doing platoon attacks and Company sized attacks.

Maybe it's the attitude that us grunts have. I've seen Marines do a lot of amazing things on Ranges and ask Accord or Woody what they've seen in Afghanistan, they've seen a lot more than I have but to say that the whole Marine Corps is weak and soft is bull****.

The only person here that continues to use the word "weak" to describe the Marine Corps is you. I haven't seen it written by a single person here, other than you. And the fact that it butt hurt you for me to call the Marine Corps soft proves just how soft the Marine Corps is. It's "bull****" that my opinion is different than yours? I don't care if it upsets you. I don't think the Marine Corps is nearly as hardcore as some Marines (you for example) try to make people believe it is.

As far as Accord, I've got a great deal of respect for what he's been through, and what he's done in Afghanistan, and he isn't one of the Marines I'm talking about when I say "Marines in general".

[commdog7]

Only read the first page, but I'll submit my two cents.

I don't think the Corps is getting soft, they are just adapting to the changes in society. You do not earn respect by hitting someone! Let me repeat: You DO NOT earn respect by hitting someone! Simple psychology. To maximize effectiveness of what the Drill Instructors teach, they must earn the respect of their recruits. Most of my DI's never laid a finger on us, yet they have my highest respect- one of them I even consider to be a "Marine's Marine" as she is the strongest Marine I know. They taught me a lot while on the Island, and when I entered the fleet, I felt the urge to make them proud. I looked up to them, I respected them, which is why I choose to work hard and apply the lessons they have taught me. There was one DI who did get physical on occassion, I have very little respect for her, I do not have the desire to make her proud like I have with the other DI's.

How does getting beat up make you stronger? I want to know. A father who beats the crap out of his kid every day versus a father who sits down with his kid and teaches him important lessons in life via non-violent tactics- who is the better father? The kid that gets beat will like develop psychological issues later in life, whereas the kid who's father was a mentor will likely succeed in life.

This is not a new thing, to frown upon leaders who hit their subordinates. General Patton got in a sh!t load of trouble for slapping two soldiers with battle fatigue in WW2. The President himself condemn the acts, Gen Patton almost got court martialled and almost lost his position. He was relieved of his duty for a number of months due to this incident and was lucky to regain authority shortly before the Normandy landings.

Drill Instructors have different methods to instill discipline, you do not need to hit someone to make them "stronger". If you honestly think getting hit makes you stronger, by all means, find someone who would be willing to beat the crap out of you, see how strong that makes you.

[Pete0331]

Only read the first page, but I'll submit my two cents.

I don't think the Corps is getting soft, they are just adapting to the changes in society.

I agree, the problem is that society is getting weak.





You do not earn respect by hitting someone! Let me repeat: You DO NOT earn respect by hitting someone! Simple psychology. To maximize effectiveness of what the Drill Instructors teach, they must earn the respect of their recruits.

Hitting someone is just a physical device used for demonstrating dominance.
Hazing someone on the quarter deck will have the same effect.
It's a tool used to reenforce the training.
It is not the only tool.



How does getting beat up make you stronger? I want to know. A father who beats the crap out of his kid every day versus a father who sits down with his kid and teaches him important lessons in life via non-violent tactics- who is the better father? The kid that gets beat will like develop psychological issues later in life, whereas the kid who's father was a mentor will likely succeed in life.


You're missing a step.
Drill Instructors are there to build back up after they tear down.
When strong physical punishments are used in Boot Camp it is the first step to tearing down, not the last step as it usually is in domestic abuse.




Drill Instructors have different methods to instill discipline, you do not need to hit someone to make them "stronger". If you honestly think getting hit makes you stronger, by all means, find someone who would be willing to beat the crap out of you, see how strong that makes you.

I disagree, there are times where it will.
SERE school for one.
Being able to experience physically traumatic events, to varying degrees, over and over is the basis of all stress inoculation.

Hitting is not the problem, the problem is that it needs to be taught how to be used properly and effectively.
Hitting should not be the first punishment used nor should it be the last,
but it can be an effectve tool that should not be taken away.

[silverdollar]

I think that the Marine Corps started getting soft when they had to paint yellow footprints at PI so the boots knew where to stand.:)

[DocGreek]

GENTLEMEN....KNOCK OFF the NIT-picking, negative SH!T...about the Marine Corps!! Everything changes...over time. The SMALL problems in The Corps will disappear over time....as usual. Complaining, never solved anything...just makes us look like whiners. Offering constructive criticism will help a lot more. Marines NEVER think what it's like for physically wimpy Doc's, to join the F.M.F. and survive with little, or NO training. It was, and still is...on the job training for us!! Complaining, is NOT an option!!!....SEMPER FI....DOC

[Namster]

X2 what Doc said.

I remember 2 different Marine Corps. The ram-rod, spit-shine, parade rest type (i.e. Garrison) and the filthy camo, no shave, field operator type.

Two totally different worlds.

The best Marines were the best in both: expert in field-craft but still squared away.

Problem is that many Marines are of only one type. We are a profession. Professionals excel, no matter what.

That is what "elite" means. No matter what circumstance, we rise to the occasion.

The selection process is tough, but not fool-proof. Proper Leadership demands much and hence, much is given.

Unfortunately, I do see evidence of ****-poor leadership as well as a general decline in the candidate pool. Signs of the times, I guess.

Older vets probably can give better insight to this.

[commdog7]

You do not earn respect by hitting someone, period. Good leaders do not have to resort to physical violence to be effective. <br />
<br />
SERE school is different, if you get captured you can expect the...

[BR34]

Today the Corps is a lot cleaner, leadership is much better, Marines are generally more disciplined. Why is this?

Because Marines today are volunteers, not draftees.

[PaidinBlood]

Because Marines today are volunteers, not draftees.


Exactly. You can't even try to compare an elephant to a mouse in order to explain their impact on global warming... Did that make sense? I sure as shi t hope not. The Corps was a different animal and I think a whole lot more than violence has made the difference. As some of the salty DIs have already pointed out, they weren't allowed to abuse you then and they can't now. Not saying it doesn't happen. :beer: to the persevering, resourceful nature of the Marine Drill Instructor.

What's with all this back and forth anyway? Who really wants to win an argument like that anyway? Who would really feel better to think 233 years of fighting men have given way to some peter puffing nancies? Get over it and decide what you will do TODAY. If you're a boot, STFU and keep your shi t straight. Lock your buddies on. If you are a leader, then make it happen your way. Not a whole lot of point for discussion, really.. Harder? Softer? Neither. It's what you make it. If where you are is too easy or too soft, then get your azz to the CRS and get orders to the hardest charging outfit you can find and see if you can put your money where your mouth is. SF

ps-Not directed at you, brother, those were my pennies for the assembled peanut gallery :usmc:

[commdog7]

Because Marines today are volunteers, not draftees.
But aren't DI's supposed to make them into good Marines? Maybe if the DI's had different training methods (replacing violence with mentoring), maybe Marines would have done better in the fleet? Just like present day.

So if recruit training has become less violent, and the Corps is better off now than it was 40 years ago... how exactly are we getting softer? How is our reputation "worse" than is was during the era where DI's commonly struck recruits? I'm scratching my head here.

[Rocky C]

X2 what Doc said.

I remember 2 different Marine Corps. The ram-rod, spit-shine, parade rest type (i.e. Garrison) and the filthy camo, no shave, field operator type.

Two totally different worlds.

The best Marines were the best in both: expert in field-craft but still squared away.

Problem is that many Marines are of only one type. We are a profession. Professionals excel, no matter what.

That is what "elite" means. No matter what circumstance, we rise to the occasion.

The selection process is tough, but not fool-proof. Proper Leadership demands much and hence, much is given.

Unfortunately, I do see evidence of ****-poor leadership as well as a general decline in the candidate pool. Signs of the times, I guess.

Older vets probably can give better insight to this.

That was well said Marine!!!
I went to Boot Camp in the mid 70's and we were trained to be the BEST in Both Worlds, Garrison and the Field.
A Marine, is a Marine, is a Marine.
Hard Core, Soft Core, All Corps, The Marine Corps!!!
Semper Fi,
Rocky

[devildame]

Who is responsible for modifying boot camp training regulations? I don't think it is Mothers of America. I don't see media pressure having any real effect on a DI's job. If this is the case, something is very wrong. Civilians should not have a say on this.

[BR34]

But aren't DI's supposed to make them into good Marines? Maybe if the DI's had different training methods (replacing violence with mentoring), maybe Marines would have done better in the fleet? Just like present day.


Maybe if they had actually wanted to be there they would have done better in the fleet.

I won't talk **** about what kind of Marines they were because given a similar situation I don't think I would have given to squirts about the rules and regs my damn self.

[SgtThrasher]

http://sitb-images.amazon.com/Qffs+v35lepmxs0Lr0mkD2HQ735apiHux5AI1CiT6h+6rOBmWi EGTSr+7jRGB60EfZ8AvpiXU+A=
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[Pete0331]

Who is responsible for modifying boot camp training regulations? I don't think it is Mothers of America. I don't see media pressure having any real effect on a DI's job. If this is the case, something is very wrong. Civilians should not have a say on this.

One of the prices that we pay for living in a civilian Republic.

Civilians lead the Armed Forces. Senators and such are influenced by special interest groups to change policy.
Mothers of America is such a special interest group.

If a couple of Senators tell a General that there will be a congressional investigation into the training practices of MCRD you can bet they will change SOP's so that they don't have to risk loosing their pension or promotion.

Commdog, I will answer your post when I have more time.

[BR34]

Profile up, Devildame.

[devildame]

Is is soft core to use asterisks instead of the words you really want to use? Is it soft core "to be courteous and respectful" - refraining from profanity while venting frustrations? I guess boot camp will be like day camp if it keeps getting easier, as young Marines describe it compared 60s, 70s, 80s bootcamp. I know there are many with strong opinions about females in the Marine Corps- how do you think it is in the 4th Battalion?

[Pete0331]

Is is soft core to use asterisks instead of the words you really want to use? Is it soft core "to be courteous and respectful" - refraining from profanity while venting frustrations? I guess boot camp will be like day camp if it keeps getting easier, as young Marines describe it compared 60s, 70s, 80s bootcamp. I know there are many with strong opinions about females in the Marine Corps- how do you think it is in the 4th Battalion?

No, this is a public site.
I participate on this site with the mentality that whatever I post is going to be public knowledge.
If I were to comment on the same issues privately I would use more colorful language.

[Pete0331]

We are talking about the use of physical punishment in Boot Camp and a training tool, not as a disciplinary measure to be used Corps wide. <br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
That is the purpose of Boot Camp. <br />
Boot Camp is...

[RLeon]

IMO the Marines have gotten "softer", not in training and doctrine but softer in the way of attitude and mentality. When it comes to warfighting and the perception of war our society in general has gotten soft over the last 233 years, so our military reflects this.

It shouldn't be this way, and it wouldn't if our leaders would keep to our long standing traditions and standards, but sadly over time these erode as well. When we enforce our long standing standards and traditions we neutralize the effect society has on the military.

With the advancement of technology and our political status things will change. Heck I don't even see the Marine Corps being a "marine corps" much longer. It's evolving into a multi-puropse military branch, loosing it's maritime character and Naval traditions.

One thing for sure, I beleive that no matter what, the Marines will always have Esprit d'Corps, and the tales of the Barbary Wars, Belleau Wood and the Frozen Chosin will live on.

I hope.

[BR34]

Is is soft core to use asterisks instead of the words you really want to use? Is it soft core "to be courteous and respectful" - refraining from profanity while venting frustrations? I guess boot camp will be like day camp if it keeps getting easier, as young Marines describe it compared 60s, 70s, 80s bootcamp. I know there are many with strong opinions about females in the Marine Corps- how do you think it is in the 4th Battalion?

It's a filter on this site that automatically blocks certain words. Go ahead, try it.

[DocGreek]

34....it appears that SOME new Members haven't checked out ALL of the Forums!! If they want to "speak thier mind", they should go to Chesty's Hooch!! AND....the opinion of a WM is welcome, and respected...BUT, is thier Marine Corps the same as a man's?? Just wondered.....DOC

[commdog7]

We are talking about the use of physical punishment in Boot Camp and a training tool, not as a disciplinary measure to be used Corps wide.

That is the purpose of Boot Camp.
Boot Camp is there to break the old social identity that you had and to instate the identity the USMC needs you to have.

Boot Camp isn't there to teach you how to survive in combat.
That is what ITB/MCT is for.

Also understand that GO's are under a significant amount of political pressure.

The logical fallacies in this statement make me want to explode.

You cannot compare the two time periods and not comment on how the draftee component effects the equation.
You also didn't comment on how the amount of training that Marines received in that time frame was much less compared to now.

By your example the reason that there were war atrocities during Vietnam was because recruits may have been physically beaten in training.
It is not that simple.

Anecdotal evidence doesn't prove a claim without other sources.

Physical punishment also teaches physical aggression.
Males are more receptive to this then females, due to biological and social role differences.

I could go further but I'll save my thesis on psychology in the military for another time.

You got a little ****ed off when I compared present day recruit training to that of the Vietnam era training. My point was to argue the perception that the Corps is getting "soft". Most Marines on here want to compare recruit training now and what it will be like in the future by reviewing the past. In the Vietnam era, it was common for DI's to hit recruits, now it is not, and this whole idea of "softer" training leads some to believe the Corps will be even "softer" in the future. So lets compare the present day Corps to that of the Vietnam era. It is not entirely fair to state that hitting recruits is the only reason why the Corps high standards are tarnished, but I believe the training has a direct reflection on the quality of the Marine.

Vietnam era= Corps had a lot of problems with drugs, crime, etc. Present day= a much cleaner Corps. Vietnam era= DI's commonly struck recruits. Present day= DI's use less violence.

So how is the Corps getting "softer" if we are actually developing a much better reputation, and we can still pull our weight in combat? Training is different now and so is the Corps- all for the better in my opinion.

You stated that physical punishment provokes physical aggression. It is possible that this physical punishment may have resulted in physical aggression in situations unrelated to combat, such as criminal activity? Maybe there is a relationship between recruit training and the mindset of Marines in the fleet.

You familiar with 'The Art of War'? In order to train warriors, a leader must first establish authority. You may think that hitting is a form of establishing dominance, but it also carries negative implications- such as the loss of respect. Quarter-decking, mind games, etc. these are what DI's utilize today to establish authority, and it works. The DI's who never touched a recruit in my platoon had absolute authority. As recruits, none of us dared to challenge that authority, that is why they were so successful in training us. The techniques they used did not negative impacts, in fact, they actually built respect.

DI's do train us for combat. They develop the combat mindset by yelling playing impossible-to-win games. DI's train us on a basic level, but MCT/ITB train us for more advanced combat tactic.

[commdog7]

In response to others, females in the Corps are trained the same as the males and are expected to perform just as well as their male counterparts in all aspects of Marine life. The Corps is actually harder for females due in large part to the sterotype in which we face. But deep down, we are warriors and maintain a desire to kill terrorists, Rah!

As for looking back 233 years a coming to the conclusion that the Corps is softer than ever before, I highly disagree. During both the Revolutionary War and the Civil War, standardized training was not available. In fact, military personnel were quite undisciplined and often fled for their lives when engaged with the enemy. If a militia showed up to battle with a strength of 500, it was likely that less than 100 would stay for the fight once the bullets started flying. During the Spanish-American War and the Mexican War the troops slowly began to get more disciplined. It wasn't until the early 1900's when boot camp took on the task of training new recruits. We saw little fighting in WW1, but WW2 was known as the greatest generation because military personnel were both good citizens and outstanding fighters. During the Korean War, the quality of the military slowly started to tumble, and by the Vietnam War, the quality of the Corps was in pretty bad condition. We have recovered from that, and now during the Iraq War, we are a decent/respectable service.

The reason I have spent my time typing this is to demonstrate that the Corps is not "softer" than ever before. The sad reality is we are actually of higher quality than the past, with the exception of WW2. So, are we 'soft'? I think not!

[DocGreek]

COMMDOG7...Where did you get your info about Viet Nam Era Marines being criminal, dope smoking, and obviously...ignorant azzholes?? I see that you're 21...lots of life experiences in The Corps, HUH? Are you an 0311, and how much combat experience do you have?? What leadership role do you have now...in Cuba? HABLAS ESPANOL? You've given out a lot of negative statements about USMC Veterans, NOT a good idea!!.....PLEASE stay away from what happened during the Viet Nam war....you weren't there...I was, AND I KNOW!! Only compare the USMC history, from the late 70's and today...PLEASE!!....DOC

[commdog7]

COMMDOG7...Where did you get your info about Viet Nam Era Marines being criminal, dope smoking, and obviously...ignorant azzholes?? I see that you're 21...lots of life experiences in The Corps, HUH? Are you an 0311, and how much combat experience do you have?? What leadership role do you have now...in Cuba? HABLAS ESPANOL? You've given out a lot of negative statements about USMC Veterans, NOT a good idea!!.....PLEASE stay away from what happened during the Viet Nam war....you weren't there...I was, AND I KNOW!! Only compare the USMC history, from the late 70's and today...PLEASE!!....DOC

My intention was not to offend anyone, I was mapping changes in Marine Corps history. I happen to study American Military History as part of my degree program, I have read plenty of books on all wars in U.S. history. Vietnam was a dark spot for the Corps, I even heard Commandant General Hagee himself say it during a speech (he was in the Corps during the Vietnam era). He talked about how much the Corps had to clean itself up after Vietnam, get all the druggies/criminals out of the Corps. From what I have read in books (most of them written by Vietnam vets), the Commandant's statements were quite accurate.

I'm not saying that all Marines during the Vietnam era were druggies/criminals, most of them were squared away. But there was a significantly higher number of low-quality Marines during that time than there is today. Deny it if you want, but I do not believe that everything I have learned about Vietnam is a lie. History isn't always bright and shiny, no matter how much we wish it were.

[Gunner 0313]

:flag:I guess if it was in a book it must be true and gives an accurate depiction of everything that went on. Oh boy !

This thread should have been put in the Hooch.

[temarti]

The Marines today are certainly smarter, I believe Wookie made that point. Would that lead to a perception that they are not as hard, who knows. There is also the difference in generations, the link below explains a lot on how the "millinials" think and act.

You can't expect a whole generation to act like ones prior, my Marine Corps generation (Nintendo -90s) did not act like the ones who went in during the beginning of the (80s). Remember the "Clinton Corps" comment about anyone who came in after 92. We will continue to hear those comparisons as long as the Marine Corps exist.

This is a good video that explains a lot, I can see it in my 12 year old, when I look at what they deal with and how they approach problems it is totally different then my philosophies, my other two are 8 and 4, so as long as they have been alive they have not known a time we were not involved in a war. Their generation will be completely different then the young Marines today.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/11/08/60minutes/main3475200.shtml

[DocGreek]

BOOKS???? HHHMMMMMM...why do you THINK "people" write books?? Do you think that "Platoon" was an accurate portrayal of Viet Nam military operations?? SHOCK VALUE!!! Show me ten negative accounts of an incedent...and I'll show you at least as many positive ones!! Be careful...please......DOC

[Pete0331]

BOOKS???? HHHMMMMMM...why do you THINK "people" write books?? Do you think that "Platoon" was an accurate portrayal of Viet Nam military operations?? SHOCK VALUE!!! Show me ten negative accounts of an incedent...and I'll show you at least as many positive ones!! Be careful...please......DOC


I hated that movie doc.
It took all the negative propoganda and presented it as truth.
No, I wasn't involved in Viet Nam, but I have talked to enough of them and read enough to know that the stories portrayed were the exception and not the rule.

It had pretty much every douchbag stereotype that was believed by the public during that timefame.

[Steve0231]

For conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity at the risk of his life above and beyond the call of duty while serving as a Rifle Squad Leader, 4th Platoon, Company K, Third Battalion, Seventh Marines (Reinforced), Regimental Combat Team 7, First Marine Division (Reinforced), on 14 April 2004. Corporal Dunham's squad was conducting a reconnaissance mission in the town of Karabilah, Iraq, when they heard rocket-propelled grenade and small arms fire erupt approximately two kilometers to the west. Corporal Dunham led his Combined Anti-Armor Team towards the engagement to provide fire support to their Battalion Commander's convoy, which had been ambushed as it was traveling to Camp Husaybah. As Corporal Dunham and his Marines advanced, they quickly began to receive enemy fire. Corporal Dunham ordered his squad to dismount their vehicles and led one of his fire teams on foot several blocks south of the ambushed convoy. Discovering seven Iraqi vehicles in a column attempting to depart, Corporal Dunham and his team stopped the vehicles to search them for weapons. As they approached the vehicles, an insurgent leaped out and attacked Corporal Dunham. Corporal Dunham wrestled the insurgent to the ground and in the ensuing struggle saw the insurgent release a grenade. Corporal Dunham immediately alerted his fellow Marines to the threat. Aware of the imminent danger and without hesitation, Corporal Dunham covered the grenade with his helmet and body, bearing the brunt of the explosion and shielding his Marines from the blast. In an ultimate and selfless act of bravery in which he was mortally wounded, he saved the lives of at least two fellow Marines. By his undaunted courage, intrepid fighting spirit, and unwavering devotion to duty, Corporal Dunham gallantly gave his life for his country, thereby reflecting great credit upon himself and upholding the highest traditions of the Marine Corps and the United States Naval Service.



Soft? I think not.

[ColdBlooded]

My drill instructor (on daddy time) told us that "this fu*king country is getting too babied and weak in the civilian world." When he said this he explained that the civilians wanting to become Marines are too affected by society outside the military lifestyle so it comes with them into the Marine Corps. In my mind I'm thinking that's why this is called the MTV generation.

[mwc4892]

if a drill instructor isnt supposed to do something he still dos it. i think bootcamp nowadays varies a great deal. My buddy got out 2 weeks before me and when we were tellin boot stories he had nothin good. He watched batman with his senior and other movies. He wished he had some of the stupid ass games played with him. The golf company that graduated when i first got there had its instructors sent to the brig. Made recruits brush thier teeth with clp brushs and practice front brakefalls off footlockers.

[Steve0231]

My drill instructor (on daddy time) told us that "this fu*king country is getting too babied and weak in the civilian world." When he said this he explained that the civilians wanting to become Marines are too affected by society outside the military lifestyle so it comes with them into the Marine Corps. In my mind I'm thinking that's why this is called the MTV generation.

The Corps isn't getting weak...American kids are. And, like the saying goes "you can't un-teach azzhole."

[thewookie]

if a drill instructor isnt supposed to do something he still dos it. i think bootcamp nowadays varies a great deal. My buddy got out 2 weeks before me and when we were tellin boot stories he had nothin good. He watched batman with his senior and other movies. He wished he had some of the stupid ass games played with him. The golf company that graduated when i first got there had its instructors sent to the brig. Made recruits brush thier teeth with clp brushs and practice front brakefalls off footlockers.

Time changes, but some things still don't. I can relate to your story very much, Marine. After bootcamp in June of 1991 I can remember speaking to some other Marines at MCT that were in our series, they were shocked at some of the stories I told about what our DIs did to us. Keep in mind, I went in on the buddy system, and at MCT when story time came up my buddy was right there beside me to verify all the crazy sheet that happened to us there. We had some craaazy DIs that were insane that's for sure. Other guys we spoke to who were there at the exact same time had totally different experiences. Go Figure.

Each platoon at each Depot is in it's own little world, the DIs are different and create a unique dynamic experience - the only thing that's the same is the training schedule which they all follow with their own "side bars" for entertainment.

[Tim Self]

COMMDOG7...Where did you get your info about Viet Nam Era Marines being criminal, dope smoking, and obviously...ignorant azzholes?? I see that you're 21...lots of life experiences in The Corps, HUH? Are you an 0311, and how much combat experience do you have?? What leadership role do you have now...in Cuba? HABLAS ESPANOL? You've given out a lot of negative statements about USMC Veterans, NOT a good idea!!.....PLEASE stay away from what happened during the Viet Nam war....you weren't there...I was, AND I KNOW!! Only compare the USMC history, from the late 70's and today...PLEASE!!....DOC

I agree Doc. Draft war era you did get crimiinals, dope and yes ignorant azzholes. You also got, "jail or military" folks. POST Vietnam, still ignorant (couldn't read), jail or military, drop outs. Bad, not necessarily but when training it could be tougher and DI's did get frustrated. Did I get hit? No. I was raised abused so it was a break for me. Does getting physical make some one hard? Dam straight it does, as long as there are not underlying psychological problems already. Remember Pvt Pyle, FMJACKET?

Is the Corps softer today than 30 years ago. Maybe not but in the minds of us who were there 30 years ago the perception is yes. Maybe because we believe the kids are softer than we were. But then it's hard to remember us when we were 18.

OK, you are authorized to fire away, I have very thick skin. Just my opinion.

[Isrowei]

I'm surprised this topic has come up again... by a boot no less. <br />
<br />
ColdBlooded... you are a joke. 6 months in and you act like you have a clue. The fact that you even bring this thread up shows...

[Gunner 0313]

:flag:So if a DI puts his hands on a Recruit you see that as disobeying a lawful order Lieutenant ? This trash should be in the hooch.

[ecfree]

Hey Lt,you're 100% correct.....calm down and have a cold drink......:usmc::beer:

[Dave Coup]

The only book I've read that hasn't been 'embellished ' with stories to improve sales is the Bible. Most of what has been written about Viet Nam was by stinkin' leftists.

[Wyoming]

When spit shining and JOB's and weekly field days went out the window, along with mess and guard duty, then it all went downhill.

All of this said by a VietNam Veteran that never smoked dope, ain't a criminal, got a highly paid for edjumacasun, and approves this message.

[Isrowei]

:flag:So if a DI puts his hands on a Recruit you see that as disobeying a lawful order Lieutenant ? This trash should be in the hooch.

Outside of the bounds of the RTO, yes, in fact it is. Unless you've picked one up lately and read it cover to cover, perhaps you don't know what you're talking about.

The RTO (Recruit Training Order) gives plenty of latitude for physical, hands-on training without crossing the boundaries into abuse.

Come back to the original issue: When is it EVER ok to willfully ignore or disobey a lawful order?

[Isrowei]

When spit shining and JOB's and weekly field days went out the window, along with mess and guard duty, then it all went downhill.

All of this said by a VietNam Veteran that never smoked dope, ain't a criminal, got a highly paid for edjumacasun, and approves this message.

You're a hoot Big Al! :)

Weekly field days are still a go (though, probably not like you remember or even I) .They still do JOBs and guard duty sometimes. Sadly spit shining and mess duty have gone the way of the dodo.

[temarti]

mess duty have gone the way of the dodo.<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

Is that due to procurement or just a unpolitical way to describe the current employees of the chow hall, haha

[PaidinBlood]

Is that due to procurement or just a unpolitical way to describe the current employees of the chow hall, haha


Nice :thumbup:

[Tim Self]

When spit shining and JOB's and weekly field days went out the window, along with mess and guard duty, then it all went downhill.

Now I know they're softer! I enjoyed the excitement and drama of JOBs. And guard duty was just part of the job. And do you mean to tell me they've did away with one of the general orders? :scared:We might have b****ed sometimes but you stood your post.

[echo3oscar1833]

Now I know they're softer! I enjoyed the excitement and drama of JOBs. And guard duty was just part of the job. And do you mean to tell me they've did away with one of the general orders? :scared:We might have b****ed sometimes but you stood your post.

Actually when I got out in 2003 we still did field day on every thurs, we still did firewatch, and guard duty, and yes we still did Mess duty. That is misinformed information. Don't know who came up with that trash, but whatever.

[Isrowei]

Now I know they're softer! I enjoyed the excitement and drama of JOBs. And guard duty was just part of the job. And do you mean to tell me they've did away with one of the general orders? :scared:We might have b****ed sometimes but you stood your post.

Everyone still stands duty once or twice a month and we still have rotational guard duty [for those of you who might remember augmenting the standing security forces (PMO)] that all units have to support.

Ever hear of the old saying "the more things change.. the more they stay the same"?

And yes, LCpls and PFCs still complain about duty, chow, the barracks, their roommates, and not enough libo.

And the old SNCOs still laugh about it and say "Back in our day, the Corps... blah blah blah".

It's great things to share over a beer at the club. If anyone is in town, come on down. If I can't tell you a good enough whopper of a lie that'll curl your toenails and knock your socks off, I'm sure I can find someone who can. :D

"The older we get.. the better we were."

[echo3oscar1833]

Everyone still stands duty once or twice a month and we still have rotational guard duty [for those of you who might remember augmenting the standing security forces (PMO)] that all units have to support.

Ever hear of the old saying "the more things change.. the more they stay the same"?

And yes, LCpls and PFCs still complain about duty, chow, the barracks, their roommates, and not enough libo.

And the old SNCOs still laugh about it and say "Back in our day, the Corps... blah blah blah".

It's great things to share over a beer at the club. If anyone is in town, come on down. If I can't tell you a good enough whopper of a lie that'll curl your toenails and knock your socks off, I'm sure I can find someone who can. :D

Count me in for a Michelob Ultra, and some sea storys Sir :D

[Isrowei]

Actually when I got out in 2003 we still did field day on every thurs, we still did firewatch, and guard duty, and yes we still did Mess duty. That is misinformed information. Don't know who came up with that trash, but whatever.

They still do all that except mess duty in contracted chowhalls. It's a liability issue. Now field mess or ship mess is entirely different. That won't ever go away.

I cranked in boot and on ship. Learned some crazy trash from the disgruntled Navy fellas. Whoowee...

[Isrowei]

Count me in for a Michelob Ultra, and some sea storys Sir :D

:marine: Right on! :beer:

[echo3oscar1833]

They still do all that except mess duty in contracted chowhalls. It's a liability issue. Now field mess or ship mess is entirely different. That won't ever go away.

I cranked in boot and on ship. Learned some crazy trash from the disgruntled Navy fellas.Whoowee...

No biggie Sir, I never liked Mess Duty anyway. I think that is one that most Marines would care less if it went away lol. Speaking of ship Sir, I thought the chow sucked a$$ on the USS Portland (LSD-37) lol. We had chicken cordon blue and I remember being sick all day after that.:D

[Isrowei]

No biggie Sir, I never liked Mess Duty anyway. I think that is one that most Marines would care less if it went away lol. Speaking of ship Sir, I thought the chow sucked a$$ on the USS Portland (LSD-37) lol. We had chicken cordon blue and I remember being sick all day after that.:D

I NEVER drink the koolaid on ship anymore... never ever ever... I've seen more disgusting things those guys did to food than I care, but the stuff they did to the drink line was downright criminal...

But those poor bastards cranked for 90 days straight. Marines only got stuck with a 30 day hitch. 90 days working a messdeck is enough to make a man go crazy...

[echo3oscar1833]

I NEVER drink the koolaid on ship anymore... never ever ever... I've seen more disgusting things those guys did to food than I care, but the stuff they did to the drink line was downright criminal...

But those poor bastards cranked for 90 days straight. Marines only got stuck with a 30 day hitch. 90 days working a messdeck is enough to make a man go crazy...

Def Sir, I did mess on ship for a few days, I think I said more WTF's in those few days, than I have my whole life:D

[Gunner 0313]

Outside of the bounds of the RTO, yes, in fact it is.

:flag:That was all I needed right there Lieutenant.

[silverdollar]

Actually when I got out in 2003 we still did field day on every thurs, we still did firewatch, and guard duty, and yes we still did Mess duty. That is misinformed information. Don't know who came up with that trash, but whatever.






In my day if a Marine said "whatever" that Marine better be a Bam.:evilgrin:

[sparkie]

There are different forms of mess duty, so quit complainin. I had shetcan duty for a month. Start steamin those cans at 3am, and tend em all day long. Just call me The Lord of the Flies.

[Isrowei]

Just call me The Lord of the Flies.

Hi, Lord of the Flies! :marine:

[PaidinBlood]

Hi, Lord of the Flies! :marine:


http://www.martinfrost.ws/htmlfiles/april2007/lord_flies.jpg

[commdog7]

I definately agree with the Lt, Drill Instructors are supposed to lead by example. They are 100% Marine and 100% loyal to the Corps. If you have a DI who is taking it upon himself/herself to disregard a lawful order, what kind of example is that setting to the recruits? They are trying to teach recruits to obey all orders, yet a few of them pick and choose which orders they want to obey. That is not good leadership, not good leadership at all. All DI's should lead by example, especially in front of recruits. If the CMC tells them not to abuse recruits, they should willingly obey. Anything less is unbecoming of a Marine and should not be tolerated in the Corps.

If any of you disagree with the no-physical-contact SOP, blame the Commandant not the DI's. But be tactful and respect the chain of command, Rah?

[usmcthetop]

Everyone still stands duty once or twice a month and we still have rotational guard duty [for those of you who might remember augmenting the standing security forces (PMO)] that all units have to support.

Ever hear of the old saying "the more things change.. the more they stay the same"?

And yes, LCpls and PFCs still complain about duty, chow, the barracks, their roommates, and not enough libo.

And the old SNCOs still laugh about it and say "Back in our day, the Corps... blah blah blah".

It's great things to share over a beer at the club. If anyone is in town, come on down. If I can't tell you a good enough whopper of a lie that'll curl your toenails and knock your socks off, I'm sure I can find someone who can. :D

"The older we get.. the better we were."

You still going to be in beaufort in Aug? I am coming down for a recruit graduation.