thedrifter
05-06-09, 07:23 AM
I Know How Far I Would Go....
Posted By Deebow
http://thejestersaxe.blogspot.com/
“It won't be long before they fear my spears more than your whips.”--Leonides
It is as if I can hear the echoes of our enemies thoughts, and they go something like the above, but maybe more like…
“It won’t be long before they fear the wrath of their legal system and not our IED’s and ambushes.”--Taliban
Having read the post from Matty about Captain Hill, his 1SG and their fates, I had to duct tape my head and take like 50 deep breaths to keep my anger from causing my head to explode. And I was ashamed to read how members of my MOS acted in discharging their duty to seek the truth.
Truth does not exist in a bubble. In this case, it is my personal and professional belief that without accounting for the unique environment that is fluid and fluctuating in the COIN battle space, it is impossible to determine the truth without knowing the context. In order to know the context, you have to walk a mile in the other guys combat boots.
I don’t consider myself the resident law expert here at B5, but I do know a bit about investigations and how to apply the UCMJ and command directives to investigating the actions of others. So let me clear up for any commanders and individual soldiers here what my opinion is on what we do while in the heat of combat (and it is only my opinion); and this opinion would be the framework around anything that I might ask or look into, should I ever be an investigator assigned to ascertain the facts...
It is not unlawful in a combat zone to do everything you can while acting in good faith and in keeping with the conduct of combat to prevent any individual who would kill you if given the chance from acting on that plan.
It is not unlawful in a combat zone to make anyone detained by you or your soldiers uncomfortable, afraid, apprehensive or fear consequences worse than death if those feelings make you or your soldiers safe.
It is not unlawful in a combat zone to use force, up to and including lethal force, to protect yourself or others from not only actual attacks and ambushes, but planned attacks and ambushes as well.
It is not unlawful in a combat zone to use your power as a leader, or as a soldier, to determine the nature of the enemy you face and what his plans are or what his intentions are and act to negate them.
It is not unlawful in a combat zone to dispatch your enemies with extreme prejudice when and where you find them.
I can’t say what I might or might not have done if faced with this situation, but the warrior in me knows that if I would have found out that my terp was placing me and my comrades in danger and setting me up to be killed by the Taliban….
No matter what, I would certainly have ruined his day….
Article 24 of the Geneva Convention, I believe, specifically allows for most treatment of detainees to be lawful. Specifically to wit:
Article 24
Ruses of war and the employment of methods necessary to obtain
information about the enemy and the country, are considered allowable.
It is a “ruse” to blindfold insurgents and then fire a rifle into the ground near them after telling them that you will shoot one of them of they do not reveal their plans.
It is a “ruse” to make the insurgents believe that you, through threat or intimidation, will injure or kill them for non-cooperation.
I say these things as someone who has actually lead soldiers and participated in combat. I know from experience that the stodgy lawyers, clueless pundits, the European media, and the gutless politicians (elected in many cases by a majority of equally gutless voters) are the ones not only impeding our success on the battlefield with a plethora of minutiae to pay attention to and get a “by your leave” in order to complete, but in many cases actively working against our goals and impeding our implementing of logical, common sense measures (at least to Joe) that lead to victory.
This president and the lackeys on his staff, those that advise him and all of the Dinosaur Media that parrot the talking points have placed our soldiers and covert operatives in great(er) danger by revealing our TTP’s (and our response to situations like this) to our enemies. Our enemies sense our weakness and they are moving to consolidate and rebuild, knowing that this administration (and it seems the careerists as well) has no stomach for a protracted fight. This attitude is moving down the chain of command and it must immediately be stopped.
The secret to the best sure-fire, 100 percent way for our soldiers to win this war in about the next 3 months is...
Allow our soldiers to be feared by our enemies…
Our enemies no longer fear our wrath. They do not fear those at the tip of the spear, and that is because they now are aware of our limits. They know that if they claim that they are abused or harassed that someone in the media from somewhere in the world will plaster their claim over every channel and website they can find. They see the Old Media here pick it up and run with it and an Administration that appears sympathetic to them through their disrespect of veterans with unsubstantiated claims and falsehoods.
They are doing this because we are not using the media to show the American People as these cowards really are. When they hold babies over their heads in front of approaching attack helicopters to show that there are children in the compound, they do it knowing we will not fire. We should release the video to the media so that everyone will see the cowardly acts of our enemy.
When we reach a point (and I believe we have the critical mass of this point approaching us at a very rapid pace) that we are no longer feared on the battlefield, then we may as well pack it in and join the French at the café.
We need to leave the conduct of combat to those at the tip of the spear and stop second guessing, micromanaging, prosecuting and selling out soldiers for doing what they need to do to kill our enemies and deliver victory. It is dangerous to allow our foe to have a vote in the manner we would defend ourselves.
We need to stop leaving those that serve with the doubt in their minds that if they take actions that, in their reasonable belief, are in keeping with the proper conduct of combat and our military traditions, they will face prosecution and the loss of their freedom, their families, and their benefits. It costs them their lives or the lives of their comrades for that hesitation to act at the moment of truth, knowing that they may not be supported for deciding that what protects them and the lives of their fellow soldiers is something that others may not agree with.
We seem to be at a place where it seems like many commanders are more concerned about the number of inked bullets in their OER than putting the requisite number of 5.56 bullets into the enemy.
You cannot simultaneously let slip the dogs of war, delineate to the barest detail the times, circumstances, dates, places, methods, and manner that they may bite or not bite, and then beat the dogs for not biting exactly as you would have done…
The dogs won’t understand, and neither will our soldiers.
Ellie
Posted By Deebow
http://thejestersaxe.blogspot.com/
“It won't be long before they fear my spears more than your whips.”--Leonides
It is as if I can hear the echoes of our enemies thoughts, and they go something like the above, but maybe more like…
“It won’t be long before they fear the wrath of their legal system and not our IED’s and ambushes.”--Taliban
Having read the post from Matty about Captain Hill, his 1SG and their fates, I had to duct tape my head and take like 50 deep breaths to keep my anger from causing my head to explode. And I was ashamed to read how members of my MOS acted in discharging their duty to seek the truth.
Truth does not exist in a bubble. In this case, it is my personal and professional belief that without accounting for the unique environment that is fluid and fluctuating in the COIN battle space, it is impossible to determine the truth without knowing the context. In order to know the context, you have to walk a mile in the other guys combat boots.
I don’t consider myself the resident law expert here at B5, but I do know a bit about investigations and how to apply the UCMJ and command directives to investigating the actions of others. So let me clear up for any commanders and individual soldiers here what my opinion is on what we do while in the heat of combat (and it is only my opinion); and this opinion would be the framework around anything that I might ask or look into, should I ever be an investigator assigned to ascertain the facts...
It is not unlawful in a combat zone to do everything you can while acting in good faith and in keeping with the conduct of combat to prevent any individual who would kill you if given the chance from acting on that plan.
It is not unlawful in a combat zone to make anyone detained by you or your soldiers uncomfortable, afraid, apprehensive or fear consequences worse than death if those feelings make you or your soldiers safe.
It is not unlawful in a combat zone to use force, up to and including lethal force, to protect yourself or others from not only actual attacks and ambushes, but planned attacks and ambushes as well.
It is not unlawful in a combat zone to use your power as a leader, or as a soldier, to determine the nature of the enemy you face and what his plans are or what his intentions are and act to negate them.
It is not unlawful in a combat zone to dispatch your enemies with extreme prejudice when and where you find them.
I can’t say what I might or might not have done if faced with this situation, but the warrior in me knows that if I would have found out that my terp was placing me and my comrades in danger and setting me up to be killed by the Taliban….
No matter what, I would certainly have ruined his day….
Article 24 of the Geneva Convention, I believe, specifically allows for most treatment of detainees to be lawful. Specifically to wit:
Article 24
Ruses of war and the employment of methods necessary to obtain
information about the enemy and the country, are considered allowable.
It is a “ruse” to blindfold insurgents and then fire a rifle into the ground near them after telling them that you will shoot one of them of they do not reveal their plans.
It is a “ruse” to make the insurgents believe that you, through threat or intimidation, will injure or kill them for non-cooperation.
I say these things as someone who has actually lead soldiers and participated in combat. I know from experience that the stodgy lawyers, clueless pundits, the European media, and the gutless politicians (elected in many cases by a majority of equally gutless voters) are the ones not only impeding our success on the battlefield with a plethora of minutiae to pay attention to and get a “by your leave” in order to complete, but in many cases actively working against our goals and impeding our implementing of logical, common sense measures (at least to Joe) that lead to victory.
This president and the lackeys on his staff, those that advise him and all of the Dinosaur Media that parrot the talking points have placed our soldiers and covert operatives in great(er) danger by revealing our TTP’s (and our response to situations like this) to our enemies. Our enemies sense our weakness and they are moving to consolidate and rebuild, knowing that this administration (and it seems the careerists as well) has no stomach for a protracted fight. This attitude is moving down the chain of command and it must immediately be stopped.
The secret to the best sure-fire, 100 percent way for our soldiers to win this war in about the next 3 months is...
Allow our soldiers to be feared by our enemies…
Our enemies no longer fear our wrath. They do not fear those at the tip of the spear, and that is because they now are aware of our limits. They know that if they claim that they are abused or harassed that someone in the media from somewhere in the world will plaster their claim over every channel and website they can find. They see the Old Media here pick it up and run with it and an Administration that appears sympathetic to them through their disrespect of veterans with unsubstantiated claims and falsehoods.
They are doing this because we are not using the media to show the American People as these cowards really are. When they hold babies over their heads in front of approaching attack helicopters to show that there are children in the compound, they do it knowing we will not fire. We should release the video to the media so that everyone will see the cowardly acts of our enemy.
When we reach a point (and I believe we have the critical mass of this point approaching us at a very rapid pace) that we are no longer feared on the battlefield, then we may as well pack it in and join the French at the café.
We need to leave the conduct of combat to those at the tip of the spear and stop second guessing, micromanaging, prosecuting and selling out soldiers for doing what they need to do to kill our enemies and deliver victory. It is dangerous to allow our foe to have a vote in the manner we would defend ourselves.
We need to stop leaving those that serve with the doubt in their minds that if they take actions that, in their reasonable belief, are in keeping with the proper conduct of combat and our military traditions, they will face prosecution and the loss of their freedom, their families, and their benefits. It costs them their lives or the lives of their comrades for that hesitation to act at the moment of truth, knowing that they may not be supported for deciding that what protects them and the lives of their fellow soldiers is something that others may not agree with.
We seem to be at a place where it seems like many commanders are more concerned about the number of inked bullets in their OER than putting the requisite number of 5.56 bullets into the enemy.
You cannot simultaneously let slip the dogs of war, delineate to the barest detail the times, circumstances, dates, places, methods, and manner that they may bite or not bite, and then beat the dogs for not biting exactly as you would have done…
The dogs won’t understand, and neither will our soldiers.
Ellie