thedrifter
04-27-09, 07:37 AM
Public Opinion Regarding the Interrogation Memos
[Gregory S. McNeal]
Our friend Prof. Jon Adler, an NRO contributor, has an interesting post at Volokh where he summarizes a recent Rasmussen poll regarding the treatment of detainees and the release of the OLC memos. A minor point — Jon refers to them as the "torture memos," which I'm not willing to do yet, mostly because torture is a legal term of art, a point I'll explain in greater detail below. As such, I don't know enough about what was done to conclude that everything described in the memos rose to the level of torture (i.e. satisfied the statutory definition of torture). A nit picky point, but one that I think is important when we consider how some polls ask the public about their opinion on torture.
His snips from the Rasmussen poll:
* 77 percent of voters say they have "followed news reports about the release of government memos about the Bush administration’s interrogation of terrorism suspects" either "Very closely" or "somewhat closely."
* 42 percent of voters believe America tortured terrorist detainees; 37 percent disagree.
* 58 percent of voters oppose further investigation of the Bush Administration's treatment of terrorist detainees.
* 58 percent of voters believe the recent release of memos describing interrogation techniques "endangers the national security of the United States."
Compare that with this ABC News poll which found:
Most Americans support Obama’s release of previously secret Bush administration records on torture, but by a fairly tepid 53-44 percent, with strong supporters and strong opponents about evenly matched. And the public continues to divide, now by 51-47 percent, on the question of an investigation into the Bush administration’s treatment of terrorism suspects, with vast partisan and ideological divisions. (emphasis mine)
What is interesting about this poll is that in Question 29 (page 18 of the .PDF), the poll asks respondents for their opinion about Obama's position on torture. Then in Question 30, it asks about Obama's position on "the interrogation of terrorism suspects." I'm not a pollster, but I'm sure that order of questions can impact the results because the respondent may not separate the two analytically. In fact, most "informed commentators" seem unable to separate the two. Torture is a crime, interrogation is not.
Let me explain a little further. Torture is a crime, and as with all crimes, the meaning of the term is specifically defined by law. An analogous example involves killing another person: Quite simply, killing is not a crime but murder is, because there are instances where an individual kills someone but the act is not criminal (accidental non-negligent killings, killings in self-defense, killings with combatant immunity, killings to defend others, etc.). My point here is not to open the door to a debate over what torture is (that's already been done, by statute), nor is it to morally equate murder and torture. Rather, my point is to emphasize that torture is illegal only when the elements of that crime are satisfied; it is a legal term of art.
Thus, there is illegality when the facts show that specific acts were committed with a specified mental state that satisfies the definition of what society has collectively deemed "wrong" in the torture statute. If you say something is torture, you're saying it satisfies the statutory definition and is therefore a crime, just as if you say something is murder, you're saying it satisfies the elements of that crime. With regard to the actions of the CIA, maybe the definition of torture was satisfied, maybe it wasn't; I don't know. But I do know that coercive interrogation falling short of that legal definition is not a crime.
Which brings me back to the order of the poll questions. The average person being polled may not get these legal distinctions; therefore, when ABC asks a question about coercive interrogation — a legal practice — right on the heels of a question about torture — an illegal practice — that order of questions is bound to skew the results.
Ellie
[Gregory S. McNeal]
Our friend Prof. Jon Adler, an NRO contributor, has an interesting post at Volokh where he summarizes a recent Rasmussen poll regarding the treatment of detainees and the release of the OLC memos. A minor point — Jon refers to them as the "torture memos," which I'm not willing to do yet, mostly because torture is a legal term of art, a point I'll explain in greater detail below. As such, I don't know enough about what was done to conclude that everything described in the memos rose to the level of torture (i.e. satisfied the statutory definition of torture). A nit picky point, but one that I think is important when we consider how some polls ask the public about their opinion on torture.
His snips from the Rasmussen poll:
* 77 percent of voters say they have "followed news reports about the release of government memos about the Bush administration’s interrogation of terrorism suspects" either "Very closely" or "somewhat closely."
* 42 percent of voters believe America tortured terrorist detainees; 37 percent disagree.
* 58 percent of voters oppose further investigation of the Bush Administration's treatment of terrorist detainees.
* 58 percent of voters believe the recent release of memos describing interrogation techniques "endangers the national security of the United States."
Compare that with this ABC News poll which found:
Most Americans support Obama’s release of previously secret Bush administration records on torture, but by a fairly tepid 53-44 percent, with strong supporters and strong opponents about evenly matched. And the public continues to divide, now by 51-47 percent, on the question of an investigation into the Bush administration’s treatment of terrorism suspects, with vast partisan and ideological divisions. (emphasis mine)
What is interesting about this poll is that in Question 29 (page 18 of the .PDF), the poll asks respondents for their opinion about Obama's position on torture. Then in Question 30, it asks about Obama's position on "the interrogation of terrorism suspects." I'm not a pollster, but I'm sure that order of questions can impact the results because the respondent may not separate the two analytically. In fact, most "informed commentators" seem unable to separate the two. Torture is a crime, interrogation is not.
Let me explain a little further. Torture is a crime, and as with all crimes, the meaning of the term is specifically defined by law. An analogous example involves killing another person: Quite simply, killing is not a crime but murder is, because there are instances where an individual kills someone but the act is not criminal (accidental non-negligent killings, killings in self-defense, killings with combatant immunity, killings to defend others, etc.). My point here is not to open the door to a debate over what torture is (that's already been done, by statute), nor is it to morally equate murder and torture. Rather, my point is to emphasize that torture is illegal only when the elements of that crime are satisfied; it is a legal term of art.
Thus, there is illegality when the facts show that specific acts were committed with a specified mental state that satisfies the definition of what society has collectively deemed "wrong" in the torture statute. If you say something is torture, you're saying it satisfies the statutory definition and is therefore a crime, just as if you say something is murder, you're saying it satisfies the elements of that crime. With regard to the actions of the CIA, maybe the definition of torture was satisfied, maybe it wasn't; I don't know. But I do know that coercive interrogation falling short of that legal definition is not a crime.
Which brings me back to the order of the poll questions. The average person being polled may not get these legal distinctions; therefore, when ABC asks a question about coercive interrogation — a legal practice — right on the heels of a question about torture — an illegal practice — that order of questions is bound to skew the results.
Ellie