Bush has another agenda in Africa

[Sgt Sostand]

Oil quest may outflank efforts to end conflict, aid development
July 7 — President Bush sets out for Africa this week to stress his conviction in the battle against AIDS, and efforts to encourage economic growth, trade and good governance where it is badly needed. The trip, which in many ways echoes the themes of predecessor Bill Clinton, represents a turnaround from 2001, when candidate George Bush made it clear that Africa was not really on his radar. Now, with strife in Liberia focusing new attention on the continent, Bush says he wants to send the message to Africa that Americans care. He also has a new motivation to make friends on the continent: oil
THE PRESIDENT’S itinerary allows him to highlight Africa’s success stories, while zigzagging around the continent’s most notorious leaders, famine areas and civil wars, not the least of which was unfolding in Liberia in the days leading up to his trip.
In Senegal, Bush’s visit includes Goree Island, once a transit point for West African slaves heading for the United States. For visiting U.S. dignitaries, this stop is practically a mandatory gesture to African-Americans
In Uganda, which has the best record in Africa for reducing the AIDS infection rate, Bush will visit a hospital for AIDS/HIV patients. It will be an opportunity for him to trumpet a five-year, $15 billion initiative to fight the AIDS epidemic in Africa — $10 billion of it new funding — that he announced in January.
In Botswana, attention will focus on the environment as well as a fledgling U.S. trade initiative.

[ivalis]

I had never heard of the place (San Tome & Principe) before. A couple of little islands that form a nation off the coast of Nigeria. This ex-Portugese colony apparently is sitting on a ****pot full of oil. Wonder if this figures into the equation.

[greensideout]

$15 billon to fight Aids. Why the sudden interest?

Clinton didn't seem to care, why would Bush?

It sure is hard to figure this stuff out!

[Sgt Sostand]

I dont like they Cut shi* here in the US to Give oversea Our tax Dollars at work ya the Va shure could some of those dollars lots of things in the US they could be Ued for. you think we are trying to save the World. unlikely

[CAS3]

HEY KIDS
You need to address each other in PM's ...not here. We are Marines. We support God, Country and Corps. Our political views are our own and should not be cause for fire fights.
I am disapointed in you both.

[USMC-FO]

Cas:

Let the guys swing away here ! One of the wonders of this site and the net in general is the availability of a media that will permit this sort of interchange. It makes for great theater and there has been nothing said that seems like a personal attack on the part of either man; seems like a fair tussel to me.

Not that anyone cares, but my money is on "Top". Clearly one of the more thoughtful and informed people on this site.

[LONEEAGLE]

:p I'm one Marine (no ex-marines) that is sick 'n tired of the U.S. not finishing jobs. Bush said combat is over in Irag. Yet daily our men/women still there are fighting/how could this statement be used? We need to pull all of them out. Then tell the Iragi people, give them up, or the bombs will start again. We can't go jumping all over the world solving two party problems. We have to finish one then go, if it's to be.......And the U.N? They are worthless.
If we lost the war in Nam, why aren't we speaking Vietnamese?
Is this what will be said on a pin, when and if we ever get Saddam Hussein and his boys, and that idiot Osama? And who's the biggest worm in the bucket? Saudi-Arabia, Iran. Yet we don't do nothing. Why? Oil. Why in Liberia? OIL. You can bet you butt that is the only reason we went to Irag, and now to Liberia, God Forbid. Enuf is Enuf. Big Eagle.

[Sgt Sostand]

Originally posted by CAS3
HEY KIDS
You need to address each other in PM's ...not here. We are Marines. We support God, Country and Corps. Our political views are our own and should not be cause for fire fights.
I am disapointed in you both.

Case3 i dont think they are fighting they are just expressing their Freedom to Speak out

[G392339]

The big question is will he send troops to Liberia, will it end like
Somalia? When does our responsibilty to the world stop? Although the govt. says the war is over in Afghanistan and Iraq,
we are still loosing men daily, and he probably refers this as
collateral damage. What has these two conflicts actually accomplihed? the leaders of both factions are still on the loose and our people have no idea of they will ever be caught. What is this latest rumor regarding VP Cheny's associates getting the oil
concessions in Iraq, if true that is probably why we went to war
not WEAPONS OF MASS DISTRUCTION which to date have not been found. In order for Bush to keep up his image, he will probably send a token force (No oil there) most probably Marines.
The President instead of roaming around the world should concentrate what is going on at home, the jobless rate is at its highest, with jobs being eliminated at alarming amounts. We have an illegal immigration problem that he refuses because it
would effect his buddy in Mexico. When I see in the news that a young couple who had lost their jobs and living in a empty house,
loosing their newly born child due to malnutrition that really hits home, instead of taking bags of money over there, distribute here where it is needed, I'd better stop now as I probably go on for days. but I believe you get my drift. Semper Fi Gene

[Sgt Sostand]

collateral damage that crazy i did not risk my life for no sh*t like that i just wonder how they are going to treat those Vet that come back. well as for me at the VA i get treated like crap after geting my a** Shot off for nothing so i just pay for my on medical and i dont have to wait 6 or 7 months to see a Doctor. but i am Still a Proud American and wouldnt have it no other way

[greybeard]

I wish once, that someone would explain this "oil" thing to me. The same thing was said about Iraq, but no one ever explained exactly how that oil was to end up in America's hands. No matter where the oil comes from, market price, usually set by OPEC, will be paid to the exporting country. Even if an American Company develops the fields, they still have to pay the same set price for it. The exception was the early days of the Saudi oil fields, and the King of Saudi Arabia wrote out the agreement for ARAMCO himself. He tried to get the Brits to do it, because he couldn't find anyone to develope the fields from the indeginous population, but the Brits lacked both the capital and the expertise. And that agreement only lasted a couple of decades. Even the most under developed nation is not dumb enough to say " OK, you guys can have our oil for less than the market value/bbl". We import as much oil from Canada, Argentina, & Mexico as we do from opec countries, it's closer to the US.
I'll use Exxon/Mobil for example. They are the holders of the largest proven reserves in the world. BUT, they don't own the oil. They simply have a contract to develope, drill, & produce the crude. They still have to pay for the stuff, plus have to pay for the development, drilling, production, pipelines, storage, terminals, tankers, all the while knowing the custodial nation can revokke their contract & nationalize the equipment & facilities at any time. Would you really prefer that Royal Dutch Shell, British Petroleum, or Total/Fina/Elf(France) get the contracts? Would you prefer that Conoco, Texaco, Exxon all have to buy their oil, not directly from a host country, but 3rd party purchase it from another oil company such as the ones listed above?? Guess what that's going to do to your 'at the pump' gas prices?
So, when you say Bush is going over there for oil, exactly what are you talking about? Try to be a little specific in your reply please.

[USMC-FO]

Shaffer:

One of the great advantages of our society and the net, particularly today, is that we ought to allow and are certainly granted the right as US citizens to exchange ideas and thoughts freely.

For this site to not permit this free exchange would, I think, be a mistake. This is just one of the reasons that many of us became Marines--although I also suspect many of us did not think of that at the time we became Marines.

Many folks here have much to say and can all offer unique insights into many of the events and ideas that float about in our society today. Don't shortchange the free exchange of these ideas and thoughts, even from the "whack jobs" that also show up here from time to time. As long as the exchanges avoid ad homin personal attacks then let the boys "swing away". I think we can handle it. I would hope you would choose to set yourself up as the site censor. Bad idea in my opinion.

That is my take on things.

Semper Fi !!

[USMC-FO]

Shaffer:

Your point also so noted.

[yellowwing]

"In Botswana, attention will focus on the environment as well as a fledgling U.S. trade initiative." - I think that means on top of his obligation to "support and defend the Constitution", he's also a salesman.

[greensideout]

Graybeard wrote:
"I wish once, that someone would explain this "oil" thing to me."

Graybeard,
I'm not sure that I'm the person that can explain it well but will try to show the "why" on my take of the "oil" wars.

Freeing up the flow of Iraqi oil deminishes the power that the Saudi's have on that region. When Iraqi oil is into full swing the Saudis will be of no consequence. Perhaps that is why they were so against us using their real estate to attack Iraq.

Oil is not the only reason for the war but plays in as the "base reason". It is the most important part. Our presence there has been a long time goal. That goal was moved ahead with the Gulf War. To control the oil there is what it is all about.

To find some interesting info on who is in alliance with whom, the countries and companies that are shaking hands and a full picture of the oil busness can be found at caspiansea.com. It's a huge site and requires a lot of time.

A little view into my thoughts of "oil" as the reason.

Semper Fi,
GSO

[CPLRapoza]

So what if it's about "oil". I can almost garantee, NO, scratch that I garantee that when prices at the pups go down not one of those you are using this as an excuse will be complaining. On th WoMD matter, how in the hell do you expect us to find anything in what 5 months that he had 12 YEARS to hide. Come on now people ratioalize that a little bit, please. I can garantee that 99.9% of the WoMD in that country are siitng in neighboring countries in that region. As far as I'm concerned we have already got rid of the 2nd most deadlist WoMD the world has ever seen and that was Saddam Hussien.

[LONEEAGLE]

:mad: Amen brother....I'm total/perm disabled...I have since moving to this state though found at one of the satellite center's a good Dr., Shrink, Clinical psychologist, and I've never been treated as well at a VA....These people have got their Sh* together. They even got me an appointment at one of the best VA;'s, Iowa City Iowa for checking to see about my damaged shoulder.....I wish you had better luck. You're not the only one. If you could find one of these outreach/satellite (as VA calls them) centers, you might be surprised of how much better care they offer.....And, I'm sorry to say, now-a-days, if you're not 50% or more? You may not get very good treatment....It's like Bush's budget cuts, where older WWII Vets, Korea, etc., won't be allowed to even get treated.....Unless they are former POW';s or 50-100% disabled. And their co-pay for meds was raised. I feel so sorry about the "Newbee's" coming back and expecting our Gov't to take care of them. It will be pure hell. I have first hand knowledge, Bush told the VA to, "STOP GIVING OUT SO MANY DISABILITIES." What a shame. And this Irag thing, 'THE WAR IS OVER?" How many are being killed each day, or wounded? I'm with you, I didn't go to Nam to get my A** shot up, at, over, under, to come back and not be treated by our "ELECTED OFFICIALS" (the cry-baby-non hacker's, no military time, used their exemption status to get out of it) with the utmost care. But, they probably voted with Bush, so they could get another payraise? I wish you the best Man, Brother....Semper Fi. Big Eagle.

[Sgt Sostand]

I think a President should have some Military Back Ground but that not the way thing are .some one have no ideal about the Military can send you in to Combat and if he been their he would think about it before use Force a life i a hell of a price to pay i am not *****ing about it but when you do your part you expect the ELECTED OFFICIALS to do their part also. and dont change the Rules.

[LONEEAGLE]

Sgt Sostand? You are so right....thank God someone else feels like I do. Not many do. And the American people say, "Why?" By this I mean, why are you so bitter at times eagle? "IF YOU ONLY KNEW!!!" No life is worth oil. The eagle has spoken.

[greensideout]

You are right Big Eagle. No life or wound is worth trading for a quart of oil or even a huge reserve under the ground.

The fact is however, that busness' run on oil. As someone else stated on this site, "The busness of America is busness."
Well put I thought.

The other thing that we deal with is a people in the way of the free flow of oil that have little to no reguard for life, their own or anyone else's. They are in the way of our busness. Therefore, we war against them. What comes with that is wounds and death to our troops. It's just a fact of life, not worth being bitter about, only to be sad for the loss of others. They and prehaps you paid a great price. Give them honor, respect yourself and get on with the joys of life.

Each day of bitterness that we have will rob us of a day of happiness.

(I don't mean to preach, just shareing my thoughts.)

Semper Fi brother,
GSO

[LONEEAGLE]

All I can say is;"GOD BLESS YOU, THANK YOU, AND YOUR WORDS ARE TAKEN TO HEART." Great or well put your thoughts on oil and war. Bitterness to some extent is gone. I've been robbed of over 30 yrrs of my life. Now is the time to start a new life, so what I'm 55? I'm gonna go until the Man upstairs says, hey eagle need a good recon man...Keep them coming to me, I love to talk to you, you seem very intelligent and up to date. Semper Fi THE EAGLE AS SPOKEN

[firstsgtmike]

Eagle,

I'll give you my nickles worth (inflation).

I have learned that you don't need to die to be reincarnated. You just have to let go.

You're 55. I'm 66. I have four sons, 8, 7, 3, and 1. I have an adopted daughter who will be 11 next month.

My children are my life, my reason for living, the fulfillment of my life. When I look back, it is to say, "Thank you Lord, for all the things it took, to get me to this point in time."

My Paradise is probably different from yours. I've had a ton of people tell me how crazy I am. And I have challenged them to tell me that on a daily basis that they are as at peace with the world as I am.

Different strokes for different folks.

Pick your Paradise and go for it. You earned it. It's there waiting for you, as soon as you drop the chains holding you back.

The next post after this one is mine, my gift to you. Read and heed.

Semper Fi, Brother

[firstsgtmike]

LOVEv4.0 software now available.

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Customer: Got it. Hey! My HEART is filling up with really neat files. SMILE.MPG is playing on my monitor right now and it shows that WARMTH.COM, PEACE.EXE, and CONTENTMENT.COM are copying themselves all over my HEART.

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Customer: I will. Goodbye, and thank you for your help.


__________________
Mike Farrell
Cagayan de Oro
Philippines

[G392339]

I have read all the aforegoing and really cannot see any conflict
as each has expressed his/hers opinion in a manner not to me
causing any reason for debate. I certainly do not contend that I am an expert on these affairs, I have been out of the mainstream
for almost 20 years (retired) and only know what I read in the
newspapers and TV. However having read these items have formed opinions just like yourselves and from that I am able to
decide how my vote should be made when the time come. 62 Years ago this coming week became a Marine for life, so you see the old grey matter is not what it use to be. Semper Fi Gene

[G392339]

Somehow or another my above post got onto this tread, it was suppose to be on another, sorry about that. semper Fi Gene

[LONEEAGLE]

:D Hey my friend? How ya doin? I hope all is well with you. Things here are as per usual. Just wanted to know how you are? Later, Big Eagle, Paul.

[LONEEAGLE]

:mad: The President of the United States declared the war over. Now our people are bitin' the dust, day after day. These so called "EXPERTS" ain't learned one damn thing about war....The Taliban is mounting up again. These Hussein loyalist are killing our people left and right, and today a bomb at the U.N. and killing their own people. Now I've had enough of this crap...I would like for all member's to send an e-mail to the President, just go into search, President of the United States, and let's tell him, "SEND BACK THE ENTIRE FORCE YOU HAD BEFORE." "GO INTO EVERY DAT BLAME VILLAGE, OR WHATEVER THEY ARE, AND SWEEP IT, CLEAN IT, TAKE THE COWARDS CAPTIVE, SEND THEM TO CUBA." "WE HAVE LOST ENOUGH." "AND YOUR WORDS AIN'T TRUE." "IT'S NOT ABOUT TERRORISM, IT'S ABOUT THE STUPID OIL." "LET'S FINISH THE JOB, FOR ONCE, LET'S FINISH THE JOB." "IT DON'T MATTER WHAT IT TAKES, FIND HUSSEIN, AND THE OTHER, USAMA B.L. AND ALL THEIR PEOPLE." "YOU QUIT TO SOON." "AND THEN TURN THE STUPID COUNTRY BACK OVER TO THE PEOPLE AND GET THE HELL OUT." "HOW MANY MORE LIVES DO WE NEED TO LOSE, BEFORE YOU MR. PRESIDENT ARE SATISFIED?" "MY ANSWER IS; "NO MORE!!!!" "DO IT RIGHT, OR DON'T DO IT AT ALL."

[LONEEAGLE]

Amen to this one!!!!

It is the soldier, not the reporter,
who has given us freedom of the press.
It is the soldier, not the poet,
who has given us freedom of speech.



It is the soldier, not the campus organizer,
who has given us the freedom to demonstrate.
It is the soldier, not the lawyer,
who has given us the right to a fair trial.



It is the soldier,
who salutes the flag,
who serves under the flag,
and whose coffin is draped by the flag,
who allows the protester to burn the flag.



American Freedom
Don't take it lightly!


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