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goodtimes
04-14-09, 01:25 PM
Well... here is the deal. This Saturday I will be throwing up with the CFT and right afterwords we will be going to a range of some sort. The reason I am saying "some sort" is because my Recruiter stated that we will be firing simunitions. I doubt it because we aren't allowed to play paintball let alone paint markers propelled by by combustibles (also, the simunitions are not cheap and I would not want to rob the Corps of what little funding it has).

1. If that is not the case, what firing simulators will be available?

2. Any poolies out there had a chance at actually punching paper at the firing line for a function?

I ask this because not only are the poolies in my group avid shooters, they are firearms enthusiasts. Ohhh... and I promise to forget everything I had ever learned about shooting before Boot Camp. No nasty habits!

P.S. If we really are firing real simunitions, I bet they will cause quite a bit of pain.

abailey
04-14-09, 01:51 PM
Well a couple months ago our function had PT and a firing simulator.

Basically there was an M16 (x2), M240, 249 SAW with bipod, and an M9 Beretta which were all hooked up to compressed air to simulate the recoil.

There was a pretty big screen in front where you fired at the enemies along with all the others and it would assess your hit/miss, shots fired, ect. It was actually pretty cool.

goodtimes
04-14-09, 02:15 PM
Aha! now I see. Should be fun, I will skip the eye and ear pro. How well did you score?

Pete0331
04-14-09, 02:16 PM
Well a couple months ago our function had PT and a firing simulator.

Basically there was an M16 (x2), M240, 249 SAW with bipod, and an M9 Beretta which were all hooked up to compressed air to simulate the recoil.

There was a pretty big screen in front where you fired at the enemies along with all the others and it would assess your hit/miss, shots fired, ect. It was actually pretty cool.

You are describing the Indoor Simulated Marksmanship Trainer (ISMT).
The ISMT is homosexual.

SIM's come in two types, 9mm and 5.56.
The 9mm ones suck, the projectiles break in the barrel like a paintball.

Man the frak up... sims hurt, get over it.
SIM training is some of the best training you can get.

thewookie
04-14-09, 02:17 PM
I'm not sure I am on track with what you are saying but when I used to teach CQB for security force battalion we used to use simunition to train with. I still have some sim rounds at my house.

We had sim kits to fit into the 9mm's, MP-5's and M-4's, and let me tell you that sheet is no joke. As an Instructor, I was always one of the aggressors for the students and I have a few "holey" sweatshirts to prove how bad those sim rounds can mess you up. Not only will those sim rounds tear through clothes, they will cut skin if they get you in the right spot. The students used to take their frustrations out on me when they got me but I always had the last laugh.....

I'm sure you will get safety briefs but remember to protect your eyeballs an ur nutz.

This is what the rounds look like:


http://www.army.forces.gc.ca/LF/Images/6_1/07-567simunition_H.jpg

Quinbo
04-14-09, 02:29 PM
Unfortuneately I know way to much about the ISMT .... serious dog and pony show but might be ok for a poolee function. The Army also has this weapons simulator that looks like a big pinball machine with a weapon attached. There are miniature pop up targets that appear about the same size as they would appear on a range. It is pretty sophisticated and tracks your muzzle 5 seconds before and 5 seconds after each shot. Basically it shows if you are steady or shooting like a drunken pool player.

abailey
04-14-09, 02:29 PM
That's pretty awesome, sounds fun. I agree the ISMT is pretty homosexual and not close to the real thing but it's still somewhat fun.

thewookie
04-14-09, 02:54 PM
Unfortuneately I know way to much about the ISMT .... serious dog and pony show but might be ok for a poolee function. The Army also has this weapons simulator that looks like a big pinball machine with a weapon attached. There are miniature pop up targets that appear about the same size as they would appear on a range. It is pretty sophisticated and tracks your muzzle 5 seconds before and 5 seconds after each shot. Basically it shows if you are steady or shooting like a drunken pool player.

Yeah, we had an ISMT room at Dam Neck, it was fun to play with at first, like any new toy. But it really wasn't very effective unless the Marine behind the gun was trying to improve themselves. It was no help for the know it alls, or wise guys, who just laid there and sprayed and prayed just to kill time. But any unks that we had on the range, they would have to spend a 1/2 day with the ISMT NCO and then after that some real snapping in, and then we would go out and requal them in the afternoon. We never had an unk that didn't requal by the third attempt, so maybe it was the ISMT, maybe it was the remedial instruction, or maybe the shooter just figured it out.

We used the ISMT for the shooting team and it did serve a purpose, and it was a nice tool to use, but nothing improves your shooting like snapping in and actually shooting.

Pete0331
04-14-09, 04:07 PM
I
This is what the rounds look like:


http://www.army.forces.gc.ca/LF/Images/6_1/07-567simunition_H.jpg

Those are the 9mm.
The 9mm requires an entire different upper receiver, buffer, and different magazines.

Small pic, but here are the 5.56 sims

http://www.nevesuniforms.com/images/products/productFX-556RifleTBsmall.jpg

They still require a bolt/buffer change, but USGI Mags can still be used.

Future93
04-14-09, 04:27 PM
I'm not a poolee but at a pool function last summer we shot AR15's at the range. We used .223 rounds (obviously) and we shot like two ten round magazines each. People under 18 had to get parental permission first though.

thewookie
04-14-09, 04:30 PM
I'm not a poolee but at a pool function last summer we shot AR15's at the range.

Was that the drill where you're in the pool shooting at stuff? Where you at the pool or the range, or did you mean a POOLeE function?

I'm going for a run....

Future93
04-14-09, 04:34 PM
Was that the drill where you're in the pool shooting at stuff? Where you at the pool or the range, or did you mean a POOLeE function?

I'm going for a run....

Sorry Sir, the Recruiters always say "pool function" in emails so I thought that was correct. I meant poolee function.

Alisium
04-14-09, 06:02 PM
Sorry Sir, the Recruiters always say "pool function" in emails so I thought that was correct. I meant poolee function.

Don't sweat it, I think he was just giving you crap.


I liked the ISMT for rifle qual. I used it a lot to work on my positions and it actually helped when I shot a 45 in the ISMT and went unq on the range a week later.

Turns out I was going blind and had to get glasses. Shooting in the ISMT helped me figure that out much quicker than I probably would have.

And not I rock on HALO 3 and COD 4, with the aid of my glasses and plasma tv, all thanks to the ISMT.

goodtimes
04-14-09, 07:13 PM
Hmmm... from what I had gathered here, this may be a great way to start with real rifle form. I still plan to forget every bad habit I had ever taught myself about the art of shooting. However, if a real Marine instructor is going to teach me something, I will apply it to the discipline of marksmanship and remember it forever.

bekster2008
04-14-09, 07:20 PM
Why wouldn't you be allowed to paintball? We just went paintballing this past saturday! It was really fun, we got to play on a course with trenches and everything.

goodtimes
04-14-09, 08:01 PM
It was deemed too "unsafe". I don't know how high it goes (I think either a Ssgt or Gysgt said no) but the only way we could do it is if all of the poolies got together and came up with a time to play and then "invited" all of the Recruiters and fresh Marines on recruiter assistance to "our" function. Other than that; SOL! Also, I would rather fire some real firearms at some paper targets rather than shoot paint balls at one another. I will see if I can't get that message to our recruiters as a possible field trip.

MarinesFTW
04-14-09, 08:23 PM
Oh yeah thats how you end up getting paint ball partys... We all just happen to show up and think that having our recruiters there would be fun... Totally not planned out... :)

thewookie
04-14-09, 08:33 PM
I did and little digging after my run and I found those "couple" of 9mm sim rounds... and since this thread went from sim to ISMT...and since I am a loser with nothing to do tonight......in the background I placed a coffee cup that a retired Marine gave me, he set up and programed the ISMT at Dam Neck. I was the ISMT NCO, what a title, haha,, that was my first job at the range. They also called the early version of ISMT - fats systems or fire-arms training systems..... on the front of that mug is a nice USMC logo... sweet coffee cup, I'll sell it to a poolEe for $100 bucks.:bunny:

thewookie
04-14-09, 08:39 PM
The 9mm requires an entire different upper receiver, buffer, and different magazines.


I don't know what 9mm sim kits that you used in the fleet, I'm sure there are a few, but the ones we used at CQB school were the exact same pistol except for the barrel. Same magazines, same buffer, same slide.

I don't remember too many misfires either.

Take out the barrel, put a red sim barrel in its place, fill mags..... and go.

The MP-5 sim conversion kits had a thin metal tube "liner" that slid down the inside of the existing barrel, but other then that nothing more there either.

Pete0331
04-14-09, 08:46 PM
I don't know what 9mm sim kits that you used in the fleet, I'm sure there are a few, but the ones we used at CQB school were the exact same pistol except for the barrel. Same magazines, same buffer, same slide.

I don't remember too many misfires either.

Take out the barrel, put a red sim barrel in its place, fill mags..... and go.

The MP-5 sim conversion kits had a thin metal tube "liner" that slid down the inside of the existing barrel, but other then that nothing more there either.


I'm referring to the M-16 SIM kits for the 9mm SIM's.