Focused Efforts

[Shaffer]

With the current difficulties the U.S. is having in Iraq and it's potential showdown with Iran and Korea, should the U.S. take an active role in Liberia?

[greensideout]

The truth is, we don't give a damn about Liberia or any other nation in Africa. The proof is in the reading of the newspaper for how many years? Let 'em all starve, be slottered and die of disease.

The war that we are in now is about OIL. Bottom line!
Korea has little to offer so we don't want to mix it up there but we may have to.
Iran, sure we will take that one on. They have the black gold that we seek. In fact, we're working on it.

Liberia? One, I think it would be a mistake, militarily. We are to thin now. Two, I don't think that we have an interest there. Answer to your question, NO.

You may not like what I wrote here brothers, but just take the time to review the history as it applies.

Semper Fi,
Ron

[mrbsox]

If it does NOT have a direct impact upon our Citizens, our Country, or our current missions (Iraq, Afganistan... etc), then NO.

We need to stay out for awhile, at let the REST OF THE U.N., and NATO be some of the worlds Police force for awhile. Then maybe they realize what we go thru, put up with, listen too, die for, every time somebody yells "BAD GUY".

NO.... we need to stay out

Terry

[firstsgtmike]

GSO wrote;

"The truth is, we don't give a damn about Liberia or any other nation in Africa. The proof is in the reading of the newspaper for how many years? Let 'em all starve, be slaughtered and die of disease.

Liberia? One, I think it would be a mistake, militarily. We are to thin now. Two, I don't think that we have an interest there. Answer to your question, NO."
-----------------------------

I don't believe that oil was a dominent factor.

There are a quantity of current and future "hot spots". I believe that Iraq was selected to make a point and bring home a lesson to all.

I believe that it appeared to be an easier "teaching aid" than several other countries that were considered as being equally deserving.

I believe that we trusted our own propaganda too much, and could not backtrack. The things that would have vindicated our efforts did not come about. i.e. WMD, and a popular uprising that would have let us get in and out and turn the country over to its citizens.

None of the pie in the sky predictions came true. BECAUSE, we failed to take into account a significant fact.

With few exceptions, the countries we are concerned with were created by drawing lines on a map, with no attention paid to cultural, religious, or tribal differences.

There are families in Central Europe who, over time, have lived in several different countries, and never moved from the house they were born in. Today, they may be the dominent culture, and tomorrow they may be the minority.

In the U.S., rezoning and redistricting. Suddenly the kids on the west side of the street can continue to go to this school, while those on the east side of the street must transfer to a school several miles away. (Where do the loyalties of team and school spirit lie?)

The Middle East is a line creation. Africa is a line creation. The Cal Neva Hotel at Lake Tahoe is an example. Half of it is in California, half in Nevada. Try to figure out the gambling and drinking laws as you go from room to room. (Although I don't remember it ever being enforced, it was a Federal crime (crossing state lines) to take a hooker from the bar to your room in the hotel.)

I read, many years ago, about a murderer who could not be prosecuted. He fired his rifle in one state, and killed his victim in another.

No, I haven't left the point I was trying to make. We failed to take into account tribal and cultural alliances. We chose, (wrongly, as it is turning out) that Iraq would be our training aid. Beware, Big Brother is watching you!

The United Nations are laughing at us. Let's turn Liberia over to them, and see how THEY handle it. Give our Reservists time to spend with their families.

Oil? NO! But for the conclusion, I agree. STAY OUT OF IT!

[Red Dragon]

Short and to the point, don't need some long winded statement, just say "NO!". Let the rest of the UN get off their backside and do something for a change instead of cutting down America all the time.

Red Dragon aka HL

[USMC-FO]

There is nothing in Sub Sahara Africa that should be of any interest to the US or its principle interests. This is a good place for the UN to demonstrate if they can do anything of use in Liberia.

What worries me is that Bush is trying to curry favor with Africa for some reason, that is beyond me. Additionally Liberia, because of its unique place in connection to the US seems a good place to do this with little to loose. EXCEPT for any Marine that may end up dead--it seems because of the geography of Liberia that an MEU would be sent in. I can't think of a more worthless reason to die than trying to keep peace in Africa where tibalism is still the most dominate force in the area, and our being there will accomplish nothing of vaule to the US

BIG BIG NO from me !!

[crispy_critter]

With power comes responsibility. Are we the worlds police? No, but we do have the power.

As for the NCO's who posted we are taught leadership and responsibility. I believe you NCO's would not watch our population starve or be murdered. So why would you watch others do so?

Should we be careful about putting Marines in harms way? Sure.
But if it is in harm way we must go to prevent these kinds of actions, then in harms way we should go.

Just my thoughts,

[USMC-FO]

"Crispy":

Noble motives and gestures ought not to govern our actions. If it did why did we do nothing in Uganda ten years ago while a million people were slaughtered? We both know why, the US had no dog in that tribal nonsense.

Decsions such as this are made on the basis of US National interest and in my mind there is no national interest in Liberia.

The value of our power is to use it in the areas that mean something, and accomplish something that will be of vaule to the US.

Do you seriously believe that the death of a single Marine, soldier, airman or sailor in Liberia is a worthy use of our power?

Would you want your son or daughter pulling duty there? I certainly would not want my son defending squat in Liberia.

[crispy_critter]

FO,

I hope it is noble motives and gestures that govern our actions otherwise, what’s the point? Oil, money, friendships? As for Uganda, we cannot undo the past.

I agree that the primary decisions are based on National interest but not solely. Despite the difficulties, I believe a stable Africa is in the interest of the US and the world.

I do not believe that this would be a meaningless use of power.

There is no more worthy cause than to die saving others.

My son or daughter would go where the USMC sent them happily and with no complaints.:D
Truthfully, what I would want for them would not matter.

[USMC-FO]

Well "Crispy" I guess we'll just agree to disagree. It does not seem that either of us is going to change the others view point.

Semper Fi !

[yellowwing]

PBS has an excellent program called Commanding Heights (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/commandingheights/hi/story/index.html) , about the development of the global economy since 1914. The broadcast outlines all of our ups and downs, crises and wars.

Right now the last 'New Global Frontier' is in Africa. What the Commander in Chief is doing now will impact the economy of our children.

"The business of America is Business". It has taken us less than 2 years to recover from the Sept 11 fallout. Not only that, we are back to projecting power again!

The fall of the Saddam regime has made the Middle East a safer place. I do not think that it's a coincidence that Israel is now more confident in making new concessions.

The best current economic asset in Liberia is their maritime fleet. They can start trading with us rather than being tempted to ship explosives for Al Qaeda.

Stabilizing Liberia is in our National interests. Do we have the assets available? Yes. We can deploy a MEU with more capabilites, much faster than the UN can send a battalion of Moroccans. Our lads in Lejuene or those floating around Diego and Sardinia will have to do the job.

[Motor-T]

We have people in this Country we should be taking care of. I don't mean by putting them on welfare,but look around and see what is going on here. Go to any city in America,and you will see the same thing here as you do in any other Country.
We need to take care of our people 1st.
The only reason we are the worlds police is because the media has said we are.
Kids here go to dumpsters every night to get something to eat,and they sleep under bridges.
Also what about our Vets? Remember the government did a lot of cutting at the VA. Yes some choose to live on the streets,but most don't,they just aren't given what is given to other Countries.
It6 seems to me that people want the good old USA to take care of everybody or control the whole world.
Why is it our problem when a leader of a Country is not doing as we would like to see them do? Now if he is killing the people off and doing what was done in Iraq then yes,we should step in. Let these Counties do for themselfs.
I am getting very sick of watching my taxs dollars going out of this Country going to another country to help them with the same problem we have in this country.
Sorry for ranting,but I had to let it out.

[crispy_critter]

Originally posted by USMC-FO
Well "Crispy" I guess we'll just agree to disagree. It does not seem that either of us is going to change the others view point.

Semper Fi !

True, I guess thats why we love the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.

And yes indeed we are "Always Faithful"

[Phantom Blooper]

Although we go into country as advisors or peacekeepers the US alway's comes out on the sh*tty end of the stick. i.e Went to Vietnam originally as advisors/end result the wall over 58,000 dead-thousands POW's-MIA's. Beirut 1982-1984 273 dead. Hundreds disabled. Everywhere we go it is honorable intentions. Firsthand expierence peacekeeping will get you killed. Even though I believe we did what was needed in Iraq and the political parties say that war is over,each day more Marines ,sailors and soildiers get killed or maimed. I may be wrong but I belive that we now have rules of engagement over there also. Rules of engagement for advisors and peacekeepers will also get you killed. Give Liberia some of Saddams money for humanitarian support for Aids and backoff. Stay focused on our major threats. We are not the world police,let the UN handle it or abolish the UN.Semper-Fi!!:mad:

[benny rutledge]

Even considering going to LIBERIA is STUPID.I support our Commander in Chief,right or wrong!Mr.Bush is completely wrong here.Consider the following,NUMBER 1.AIDS is Epidemic on the Continent(600 die each day)Number 2.STARVATION.The population there are starving,bringing well fed troops will cause all sorts of new problems(shooting packs of starving people storming basecamps etc.)NO ECONOMY,NO JOBS,UNEDUCATED MASSES of SAVAGES with all sorts of cast off weapons including,CLUBS,MACHETES,SPEARS.The weather there is ungodly and there are insects and diseases that defy Scientific discription.These people are warlike and have been for Decades,Entire Companies would die unimaginable deaths and be exterminated wholesale.Death there is accepted and VERY messy.Somalia was just a warmer upper,Don't EVEN THINK IT Mr.BUSH keep our troops the Hell out of there.:no: :no: :no:

[crispy_critter]

Originally posted by benny rutledge
Even considering going to LIBERIA is STUPID.I support our Commander in Chief,right or wrong!Mr.Bush is completely wrong here.Consider the following,NUMBER 1.AIDS is Epidemic on the Continent(600 die each day)Number 2.STARVATION.The population there are starving,bringing well fed troops will cause all sorts of new problems(shooting packs of starving people storming basecamps etc.)NO ECONOMY,NO JOBS,UNEDUCATED MASSES of SAVAGES with all sorts of cast off weapons including,CLUBS,MACHETES,SPEARS.The weather there is ungodly and there are insects and diseases that defy Scientific discription.These people are warlike and have been for Decades,Entire Companies would die unimaginable deaths and be exterminated wholesale.Death there is accepted and VERY messy.Somalia was just a warmer upper,Don't EVEN THINK IT Mr.BUSH keep our troops the Hell out of there.:no: :no: :no:

WOW, what a grime view of your fellow man.

The more difficult the task the sweeter the victory.

[richgitz]

I wasn't going to post on this, but I think we have too many
POCKERS IN THE FIRE now. Let the United Nations do some-
thing for a change. The so called Allies are just waiting for us
to over extend ourselfs, and run our selfs in the ground. The
situation today PI**ES me off so much I could screem. To Hell
with the Europe Nations, they can Kiss our A**ES.

[MEDICJEFF]

I agree with Bennie. I support my CINC and I will follow. I lso agree with others that we have enough problems here in the good old US of A, to worry about the Liberia situation. If there is a direct matter pertaining to our country, then we should go head first. But now, a measured response and aid.

[pthom164]

I just voted "No" and the reason why is, I served with FAST Co 5th Ptl between 88-91, during that time I was sent to Liberia to help evacuate and then secure the embassy. During that time "Desert Storm" was grabbing most fo the media attention, I assure you this "we" saw things there that were alot worse then "Desert Storm"(thats a whole other post). The Place is a Mess!!!, our country never learns that we cant change a culture of destruction. Its funny I watch the news and look at many pictures of Liberia, and nothing has changed, not one single aspect of that country, so I ask this question what happened to the last 12 years since I was there and why are we worried about it now??? Nothing will ever change Africa , to fully understand it, you really have to see it to believe it......... It's a Worthless Cause!!!

[sinjye]

To all that this may concern: I remember a time when Terrorism was our mission, to seek and destroy this invisable enemy. Liberia is just a hip shot that got out of hand. Myself, I believe that Afganastan should be back in our front post sites with an itchy trigger finger gun-man lining it up. BANG_BANG

[Dan_Mills]

Should the US take an active role in Liberia? Let me give you a few thoughts: Haiti, Dominican Republic, Cuba, Puerto Rico, Nicaragua, Colombia. We have enough trouble spots in this hemisphere without running half way around the world. We still haven't got Haiti straightened out yet. How about just once, we finish what's already on our plate before we start looking for more.

[benny rutledge]

Follow up to "Cannibals"etc.I Authored that post as a stunned individual ,after hearing the "Iwo Jima was on en route to Africa with a full complement of US Marines.The post was redneck and vulger in its own way,but its basically factual.Diseases,Poverty,Violent Natives armed with any and all manner of weaponry,These folks have little or NO education and/or social skills.Lets not leave out the BIG one,Starvation!He with the food will win this next Fracas in Africa.I would go armed with a Fleet of loaded Farmer Jack Trucks and a large MASH unit.Lets not repeat the idiom:"Give me your hearts and mind or I'll burn you village down".Lets Feed em' if we must,fight em' if we have to.Since the first post on this thread,the Marines have indeed Landed.They are obstensibly bolstering the Embassy Marines and other support duties.With baited breath I wish those Men well.

[yellowwing]

What ticks me off is when the rebels briefly stalled handing over the seaport. These drunk and drugged up pukes wanted concessions! A platoon of third phase recruits could have cleared them out. But we had to make a deal with them.

And where are these starving ragtag "forces" getting AK-47s, mortars, and RPGs from anyway?

[benny rutledge]

Hey!PTHOM 164!You were there in Liberia.For the woefully ignorant amongst us,do you have any photos of Liberia you can post?What really is going on?My nephew is on the "Iwo Jima" and is or was offshore,Whats the scoop on Liberia??

[zippoman]

Why the hell should we send troops to Liberia when we can't even protect our own Country........Completely Close all the borders and set a couple of Marines with auto weapons 50 feet apart in a fightin hole completely around the Country.........
We're stretched thin, and its time we stop worryin bout the rest of the World and Protect our own.........!!

[arzach]

It's a damn civil war..let it stay that way. If anybody needs to be involved it's the weak azzed un...that is why it was put together anyway. I agree with the ZippoMan...we have more to worry about here at home than trying to be 'peace keepers' in liberia...just a thought, there ain't no 'peace' over there to 'keep'.

YAT-YAS
Rick