View Full Version : Aerial/Door Gunner
119Wrestler
03-21-09, 07:55 PM
I was looking at MOS options and MOS 6199 caught my eye. It is Enlisted Aircrew/Aerial Observer/Gunner. I was just wondering if there is anyone here with that MOS. If you could give me some basic input?
Like where is the school? How long? What do you do on a daily basis?
The search engine isn't working for me. I dont know why.
Thanks
I didnt go to the Air Crew school but i know that their first school is in Pensecola, FL im not sure how long their school is, but u mostly PT and swim in your first school. My roommate was AC and his 2nd school was in pendelton and when i was in Cherry Point for my next school there was very few AC their too. I know this didnt help much but thats all the info i can really give on it
FMBrownie
03-23-09, 03:48 PM
I was looking at MOS options and MOS 6199 caught my eye. It is Enlisted Aircrew/Aerial Observer/Gunner. I was just wondering if there is anyone here with that MOS. If you could give me some basic input?
Like where is the school? How long? What do you do on a daily basis?
The search engine isn't working for me. I dont know why.
Thanks
Been a few years, but I used to be an AO/Gunner on a 46, but wasn't a Crew Chief, and didn't have an extra MOS (was admin lucky to be in a 46 Squadron). I don't think that 6199 would actually be your primary MOS. I believe this is part of the Crewchief training, which lasts over a year. Crew Chiefs are not only aircrew, but also mechanics. I think that you first get the 6199 designation, then go to mechanic school for whatever aircraft you will be flying in to get your actual MOS like 6172 or 6173. Again, I'm not sure about this, but pretty sure. I also think the enlistment is for a minimum 5 years active duty due to the extensive training, but they get promoted faster as well. If I had it to do over again, I would have enlisted chosen Helicopter Crew Chief as my MOS... lots of fun, get to go more places, and shoot big guns out the side of a flying aircraft... doesn't get much better than that.
Wyoming
03-23-09, 04:04 PM
... lots of fun, get to go more places, and shoot big guns out the side of a flying aircraft... doesn't get much better than that.
... except when somebody starts shootlng back at you!!:evilgrin:
FMBrownie
03-23-09, 04:14 PM
... except when somebody starts shootlng back at you!!:evilgrin:
That's what we're all there (or were there) for! OohRah!
commdog7
03-23-09, 04:52 PM
I wish I had a cool mos like that, that looks like fun! :yes:
Every time I get on a 53 I see these guys and they look bored out of their skulls. They're usually sitting on buckets just staring into the desert and all I ever see them do is re-link the round they take out of their .50's when they get in the wire, and load it back up when they go out of the wire.
Afghanistan I assume would be different, but I would NOT want to be 5,000 feet up when people start shooting at me...
Well First you have to pass Flight Medical, then NATOPS Swim Qual & the Dunker, get your flight chit, then be in a Helicopter Squadron to first to go threw all this. Then take a test on the Airframe you will be flying in. Then after all this go to Airial Gunners School, but better name for us "DOOR GUNNERS". Ya it is boring until the first inbound rounds start coming in and hopefully the HAC already told you Guns Are Hot. Or there is alot of yelling over the head set and then you open fire. It is alot of drama then.
Hueys & CH-53s OOORRRAAAHHH Get Some
Semper Fi
Wyoming
03-24-09, 01:02 PM
Every time I get on a 53 I see these guys and they look bored out of their skulls. They're usually sitting on buckets just staring into the desert and all I ever see them do is re-link the round they take out of their .50's when they get in the wire, and load it back up when they go out of the wire.
Afghanistan I assume would be different, but I would NOT want to be 5,000 feet up when people start shooting at me...
They are definately not bored.
They are thinking about those million pieces, moving in complete harmony, in different directions, all at the same time.
They are worried about that tiny drip of a hydraulic leak that you don't see.
They are worried about that strange sound that only they and the Hac can hear.
All the while, they are listening to the comms, re; the injuns, and where they be.
More importantly, they are thinking about you. About making this flight safe, getting you to where you are going, and when they return to bring you back, they are praying that ALL of you return in one piece.
Are they bored? Son, methinks you have never heard of nor seen the 1000 yard stare.
Oh yeah, being shot at really ****ing sucks. Shooting back always gave me a yard on a hard long. GET SOME!!
They are definately not bored.
They are thinking about those million pieces, moving in complete harmony, in different directions, all at the same time.
and that one pin holding the only thing keeping your from falling out of the sky...
They are worried about that tiny drip of a hydraulic leak that you don't see.
you mean the lack of hydraulic leaks....
They are worried about that strange sound that only they and the Hac can hear.
All the while, they are listening to the comms, re; the injuns, and where they be.
More importantly, they are thinking about you. About making this flight safe, getting you to where you are going, and when they return to bring you back, they are praying that ALL of you return in one piece.
'cause that means they will
Are they bored? Son, methinks you have never heard of nor seen the 1000 yard stare.
they could also think you're retarded???????:banana: (not aimed at you al)
Oh yeah, being shot at really ****ing sucks. Shooting back always gave me a yard on a hard long. GET SOME!!
hahaha.
KawiGunny
03-24-09, 01:15 PM
They are worried about that tiny drip of a hydraulic leak that you don't see.
I only got worried when I didn't see a leak. That meant it was empty.:D
Wyoming
03-24-09, 01:19 PM
I only got worried when I didn't see a leak. That meant it was empty.:D
EXACTLY. They were just hoping the leak continued until they went feet dry and landed.
There is alot to do before you even get up on the Sortie, the ready room, FOD walk. Pre Flight, Yallow Sheet check and signing. You get the Hydralic PIG and cram the hydralic fluid in. Then check the weapon mounts, and clean the Wind Screen. Then the HAC & Co Pilot come out and do their pre flight and you do it with them also. Then your ready for flight and get long cord, take off red place cards and pins. then do a turn up with pilots and check the pitch of the blades. Then in flight the whole time the Bird is like a clock 12 oclock all away around. You listen to it and watch things and for things. As your coming into a LZ you have to make sure there is enough cleared for the Blades. So your not bored, you are pretty burned out after a Sortie. Then after a Sortie you have to do a post flight on the bird and do Yellow Sheets and what ever else has to be done, also JP fluid up. When watching in the Gunners seat you have to watch the ground and air for anything and talk on the Comm at what time on the clock it is at or coming from. Everyone on the Bird is more than a Team, we are very close we count on each other to protect each other. If your not watching or miss something everyone could die, so it is very important that you keep looking and watching and listening. Nothing should be over looked. Marine Helicopter Crews, Officers and Enlisted are very close and must trust each other.
Semper Fi :usmc:
jungleman4422
03-25-09, 08:34 PM
I am actually in the midst of training to be 6174 Huey aircrew member. Basically I have done MCT of course and then off to Pensacola. There you PT like another Marine stated then get wet with 9 swimming tests the 9th being the mile swim in flight suit. Then in "Disney Week" is when you will do the spin and puke or like what you see in all the movies for the astronauts but you don't spin that fast. Then the dreaded helo dunker which is actually quite exciting and kinda fun. If you have bad eye sight you will be fixed wing only so C-130 and you have to do the low pressure chamber and basically experience what it is like to be at 25000ft. Then "Grad Week" you do bay ops which you go and jump in the bay with all flight gear and life jacket and get "tea bagged" by a UH-60 then you get in a life raft and you done. Once you graduate that school which is 4 weeks long (expect to be there a minimum 2 months because of medical) you will get your orders for you aircraft wether 130, 53, 46 (not so much anymore) or V-22. I went from there to San Diego because I got Hueys and I went stright into SERE which is a 2 week long school and that is all I can say. Now I'm in Pendleton doing my engine school and after I go to flight training after all of that your done with formal school. Then you go to your squadron and do more training haha it never ends.
I am actually in the midst of training to be 6174 Huey aircrew member. Basically I have done MCT of course and then off to Pensacola. There you PT like another Marine stated then get wet with 9 swimming tests the 9th being the mile swim in flight suit. Then in "Disney Week" is when you will do the spin and puke or like what you see in all the movies for the astronauts but you don't spin that fast. Then the dreaded helo dunker which is actually quite exciting and kinda fun. If you have bad eye sight you will be fixed wing only so C-130 and you have to do the low pressure chamber and basically experience what it is like to be at 25000ft. Then "Grad Week" you do bay ops which you go and jump in the bay with all flight gear and life jacket and get "tea bagged" by a UH-60 then you get in a life raft and you done. Once you graduate that school which is 4 weeks long (expect to be there a minimum 2 months because of medical) you will get your orders for you aircraft wether 130, 53, 46 (not so much anymore) or V-22. I went from there to San Diego because I got Hueys and I went stright into SERE which is a 2 week long school and that is all I can say. Now I'm in Pendleton doing my engine school and after I go to flight training after all of that your done with formal school. Then you go to your squadron and do more training haha it never ends.
I think they are about to phase out there last 46 squadron.... I was reading something about it in the Marine Corps Times rag.... 'course they aren't always accurate.
They are definately not bored.
They are thinking about those million pieces, moving in complete harmony, in different directions, all at the same time.
They are worried about that tiny drip of a hydraulic leak that you don't see.
They are worried about that strange sound that only they and the Hac can hear.
All the while, they are listening to the comms, re; the injuns, and where they be.
More importantly, they are thinking about you. About making this flight safe, getting you to where you are going, and when they return to bring you back, they are praying that ALL of you return in one piece.
Are they bored? Son, methinks you have never heard of nor seen the 1000 yard stare.
Oh yeah, being shot at really ****ing sucks. Shooting back always gave me a yard on a hard long. GET SOME!!
Well I don't really take my job seriously, so I'd get pretty freaking bored sitting on a bucket behind a 50 cal on a CH53 flying back and forth over Iraq all day. Not my cup of tea.
And what the hell does the thousand yard stare have to do with being bored sitting on a bucket in a helo? Whether you're crazy or not its still boring.
Wyoming
03-26-09, 09:28 AM
Well I don't really take my job seriously, so I'd get pretty freaking bored sitting on a bucket behind a 50 cal on a CH53 flying back and forth over Iraq all day. Not my cup of tea.
And what the hell does the thousand yard stare have to do with being bored sitting on a bucket in a helo? Whether you're crazy or not its still boring.
Well I don't really take my job seriously - Godspeed and I wish you well in your civilian pursuits.
thousand yard stare have to do with being bored sitting on a bucket in a helo? Whether you're crazy or not its still boring - So, am I incorrect here, do you actually believe that the 1000 yard stare denotes craziness???
Son, I have thought it for a long time, and truly believe, that you have a world of growing up to do!!
jungleman4422
03-26-09, 10:50 PM
I think they are about to phase out there last 46 squadron.... I was reading something about it in the Marine Corps Times rag.... 'course they aren't always accurate.
That is true they just shut down the MOS for reenlistment and now the 46 guys are competing with the 22 guys for cutting scores.
so they are augmenting into the 22 MOS?
JohnEaceHunt
03-27-09, 02:12 AM
Well achped I guarantee your a*s would NOT even touch My Helo reguardless of which model it was, much less getting bored sitting on a bucket on a gun as a Gunner while it was flying on any type mission I was on. Your attitude, being Bored, should get you kicked out of My Corps. Its people like you that gets true Marines Dead every day. With your attitude you will wake up very DEAD just before you know it. Better wake up and get UN-bored real fast. When it happens, I pray to God you don't take any Marines or any other Servicemen, or Women with you.!!! After your little butt has been in a number of Hot LZ's, taking Enemy Fire and the rounds hitting your Bird like a bag of popcorn in a microwave, shot down and/or crashed a number of times, had med-evacs that required you to hold a few guts in, or a limb or two on, while you were trying to Fly them to the closest emergency Trauma Unit,(a lot of Helicopters don't always have a Corpsman on board), then you might start getting what in 'Nam was called the 1000 yard stare, and see the world just a little bit different. From your profile, your still a kid that some way faked his way through which ever MCRD you floated through. Again, if you don't wake up and fast, you won't be coming home alive, from where ever it is you think your at. What a looser., Shi......
silverdollar
03-27-09, 09:45 AM
I just get too pizzed seeing what calls their selfs Marines on this forum. like the dumbazz kid who thinks he is in a soap opera and the Marine Corps is here to entertain him.:mad:
Well when the first time some of them are on a Hot Sortie and the incoming rounds are hitting the skin of the Bird. The HAC starts rolling and rocking the Bird and the Gunners open up. You see the white Ghost faces and losing their chow, the relm of the Brain Fart is over. Only thing is we as Crew/Door Gunners have to clean up the crap after the Flight.
jungleman4422
03-27-09, 04:23 PM
so they are augmenting into the 22 MOS?
It looks like it. But the Marine Corps Times just had an article that stated that the 22s are not going to Afghanistan I did not read the article though. All I know is that from watching them land they are quite slow especially compared to a 46 but there take off is really fast compared to the 46.
JohnEaceHunt
03-27-09, 06:10 PM
Well, I had a feeling the Corps was smart enough NOT to send the v-22 to afghan., at 100 million apiece. The 1st mission one was inserting 19 troops on top of a mountain, it would be shot down, with all dead. Now the 53 is a costly Bird in itself, and after 3-4 are shot down inserting 40-45 troops on a mountain with a Great number dead, I bet you they re-activate several 46 Squadrons to do the job. How many Marines will die before they bring it back? The only problem is, in Vietnam we carried 2500 pounds of fuel, and now some smart ass increased the load to 5000 pounds of fuel. That takes up almost all the useable load the Bird could carry. In 'Nam, I hauled 20, and 21 troops on inserts before, but as I have said we carried only 2500 pounds of fuel, and then we would NOT carry full loads of fuel JUST so we could haul more combat ready Marines. I had 4 'A' models. Didn't have 4-5 plus modifications on it then. Each modification cut the load we could carry by 3-4 Marines. There is not 1 Marine HAC 46 Pilot than can do a Button-Hook landing in the Marine Corps today. I guarantee that. The ones today can't believe such a landing is, or was possible. It is described in full on Popasmoke website. Probally type in the search 'Button-Hook landing' and it would take you to it. You go from a speed of close to 120 plus mph final approach, down to 35-40 mph in just less than 4-5 seconds, then in 1-2 seconds just plop on the LZ, faceing the direction you came in from with a full load of troops, puking all over, as well as dumping in their utilities, especially if it was a HOT zone,LOL. There are a lot of people that have written the 46 off, but I know its a little pre-mature. We just have to see.
bigirongunner
03-27-09, 08:26 PM
Well I don't really take my job seriously, so I'd get pretty freaking bored sitting on a bucket behind a 50 cal on a CH53 flying back and forth over Iraq all day. Not my cup of tea.
And what the hell does the thousand yard stare have to do with being bored sitting on a bucket in a helo? Whether you're crazy or not its still boring.
Its only boring to those who have absolutly no clue as to what is going on during the flight.
Well, I had a feeling the Corps was smart enough NOT to send the v-22 to afghan., at 100 million apiece. The 1st mission one was inserting 19 troops on top of a mountain, it would be shot down, with all dead. Now the 53 is a costly Bird in itself, and after 3-4 are shot down inserting 40-45 troops on a mountain with a Great number dead, I bet you they re-activate several 46 Squadrons to do the job. How many Marines will die before they bring it back? The only problem is, in Vietnam we carried 2500 pounds of fuel, and now some smart ass increased the load to 5000 pounds of fuel. That takes up almost all the useable load the Bird could carry. In 'Nam, I hauled 20, and 21 troops on inserts before, but as I have said we carried only 2500 pounds of fuel, and then we would NOT carry full loads of fuel JUST so we could haul more combat ready Marines. I had 4 'A' models. Didn't have 4-5 plus modifications on it then. Each modification cut the load we could carry by 3-4 Marines. There is not 1 Marine HAC 46 Pilot than can do a Button-Hook landing in the Marine Corps today. I guarantee that. The ones today can't believe such a landing is, or was possible. It is described in full on Popasmoke website. Probally type in the search 'Button-Hook landing' and it would take you to it. You go from a speed of close to 120 plus mph final approach, down to 35-40 mph in just less than 4-5 seconds, then in 1-2 seconds just plop on the LZ, faceing the direction you came in from with a full load of troops, puking all over, as well as dumping in their utilities, especially if it was a HOT zone,LOL. There are a lot of people that have written the 46 off, but I know its a little pre-mature. We just have to see.
well the 46 has been upgraded to larger engines since vietnam, so it's capable of carrying the extra fuel and get's it going farther.
as for it's use in afgan, the 46 doesn't like high altitudes... that's why they are using the super stallion 53s for heavy lift and the deltas (right????) for the medium lift missions.
when a the 46s were carrying 5 combat loaded Marines to their destination at a time I think the generals figured it shouldn't play in the sands of afgan anymore.... did great in Iraq though.
txbasshound
11-10-09, 03:13 PM
In 1970 went to helo school at El Toro/ Camp Pendleton for door gunner, best I can remember it was 6174 but that was a LONG time ago
Zulu 36
11-10-09, 06:20 PM
Its only boring to those who have absolutly no clue as to what is going on during the flight.
That's true. When you're tied into the comm system and know what's happening as it happens, the flight goes much faster.
I flew back from Desert Storm in the jump seat of a KC-135 as I knew the crew. I was given a headset and could BS with everyone hooked in. I never flew over the Atlantic faster than that time - or at least it felt that way.
Aircrewmarine
11-30-09, 10:49 PM
I just finished naccs in Pensacola. It's really not all that tough, and just from the training here I love that I went aircrew it's been a lot of fun. To be a gunner though you should try and get the aircrew mos (AG) and ask for hueys or 53s. If you have any questions about training let me know and I'll fill in whatever blanks I can for you
@JohnEaceHunt
You're right about Googling "Button-Hook landing". Just click I'm Feeling Lucky =D
A few years ago I crewed a training lift for Quantico H&S Battalion. We dropped off our last few pax and did a jump takeoff. At some point while in translational lift, maybe just after exiting, the pilot pulled off this awesome 180-degree turn, and continued taking off. It was very similar to the button-hook Mr. Thomson describes at popasmoke, using the body of the aircraft for drag while turning and never flying in the direction the nose was facing. It was the closest thing I had done to this maneuver, and it was amazing. I wish I got to experience the real maneuver.
btw, John. Not sure if you knew this, but the 46's switched from PMS to another engine control system (ECCS) within the past decade. Now computers control the fuel control automatically, even compensating for collective inputs. They stopped teaching PMS about four years ago when I went through the school house. It went through other changes, too, but ECCS is what surprises former 46 crewmen the most.
thezero
07-24-10, 11:14 PM
46's are just about all swapped over to the MV-22's. I believe my room mate is going to one of the last ones to change over. The squadrons in Miramar are the last of them to be changing as well. Also if you go to C-130 for air crew and are put in the "Crew master" position you will be on Little Rock AFB, AR for awhile. Theres a few guys that started class last month that are going to be crew masters (Load Master/Crew Chief) that won't be leaving until just about spring of next year.
@thezero
All of the east coast (sans HMX, Norfolk, and the roadrunners) have switched, and the Miramar bubbas are converting now. However, Oki and Pendleton still have their squadrons and are expecting to convert within the next few years.
For all the Phrog guys here, I heard a rumor that one of our crew chiefs was told by CMC himself that the H-46 is the greatest helicopter the Corps has ever had. Whether its true, I don't know, but hot damn! That makes me proud.
JohnEaceHunt
07-25-10, 12:33 AM
Onux16, it was almost a daily occurance in '69 when I had my Birds as Crew Chief. The(Button-Hooks), were something to get to go through. Believe me, there is not a Pilot Flying 46's or any other Bird in inventory in the Marine Corps that has the knowledge or the guts to do one now. You had 15-20 seconds to get in and out of a zone, and that was bout the best way to get in, and out and stay alive. We also had to do an Auto-rotation each time we flew by a good sized Base as we were getting hit, and dropping like flies a lot, along with engine failures, and the Pilots had to know how to hit the ground without blowing up. The Auto-rotation saved us many times for certain. I do believe HMX-1 will keep the 46's they have well beyond the 2017 shut down time, but unless the osprey falls on its tail feathers, it'll be gone by 2015-17. The General is correct as the 46 is the Best Bird,(Helicopter), the Marine Corps has ever had for any mission it was assigned to do. I know. Many of us Know, as it was capabbale of doing any mission for that matter. My Alphas' have haulled 21 fully loaded Combat Packs before and Flew like Champs. I had 5. Just Glad you had the chance to Crew one in your Flying. You now know how much we loved the Bird. It makes me sick what the ground pounding Generals are doing to it, but it could come back one day if they are not sold to other countries. Semper Fi, and Ready-APP.
Wyoming
07-25-10, 08:37 AM
John, check back with me or Burgess. I don't remember the date, but I think it is January next, that HMM-165 is casing it's colors. This to be in San Diego. Lot of us Plank Holders are gonna try to be there.