Sit-ups or crunches?

[poolee_plaster]

When doing IST are you require to do sit-ups or crunches? Or are they considered the same thing? I've read both from different sites.
Thanks!

[22DevilPup87]

I've seen the terms used interchangably a lot. To the best of my knowledge they want you to hold your biceps, come up till your elbows touch your thighs, and down till your shoulderblades hit the deck.

Does that help?

[Echo_Four_Bravo]

The change to crunches from sit ups happend a few years ago. This is probably why you still see people talking about sit ups in places. The Marine Corps does crunches now. You hold your arms against your chest and go up until your elbows touch your knees. Makes it harder than doing a sit up. The change happened at the same time that kipping went away on the pull ups. Talk about some PFT scores dropping! But with the new rules, it is about how fit you are, not how skilled you are.

[22DevilPup87]

While I could certainly be wrong, I'm almost positive that we only have to have our elbows touch our thighs and go down till our shoulderblades hit the deck ... I'm guessing that'd be called a crunch (even though at NASS they called them situps ... I'm so confused!)

[lurchenstein]

I'm guessing that'd be called a crunch (even though at NASS they called them situps ... I'm so confused!)
There's a difference.

[22DevilPup87]

Ahh, okay. Well, at NASS we were definately coming up further than that. Our elbows touched our thighs ... but we didn't come up to our knees. Still a sit-up?

[jenrmurray]

I was always taught that you just had to touch your thighs.

[wrbones]

sit-ups ya used to have to break the 'plane' between yer knees with yer head. Do 80 of those in two minutes!

[wrbones]

Oh. Look up Marine Corps Orders on this site. Might be a link to one that will tell ya everything ya want to know about crunches.

Some of you kids ain't readin' what's already here, mebbe.

[22DevilPup87]

It's possible. I'll check it out. Crunches and sit-ups have had me confused for a while. It's time I find out for sure.

[poolee_plaster]

I'll just have to adjust to doing that type of crunches then. Oh well! Anything to better prepare myself.

[22DevilPup87]

I'm not sure what they're called (I just called my recruiting office and one recruiter called it a crunch, while another called it a sit-up; both explained them the same way), but I'm absolutely positive as to how to do them.

In the IST and PFT they want you to start in the typical sit-up position, grab your biceps (or your shirt right next to your biceps), keep your arms against your chest, come up until your elbows touch your thighs and down until your shoulderblades hit the deck.

Whatever it's called, just do it.

[jenrmurray]

That is exactly how I have been instructed to do them.

I think they are supposed to be called crunches now because the old way when they were called sit-ups was bad for your back. But, ya. Who cares what they are called... just begin. ;)

[jenrmurray]

I found this on about.*************, it is taken from Marine Corps Order (MCO) P6100-12. So now there is no more debate.

Abdominal Crunch. The goal of the abdominal crunch event is for a Marine to execute as many proper and complete crunches within the prescribed time limit. The procedures are:

(1) 2-minute time limit.

(2) On a flat surface, Marines will lie flat on their back with shoulder blades touching the deck, knees will be bent, and both feet will be flat on the deck.

(3) The arms will be folded across the chest or rib cage with no gap existing between the arms and chest/rib cage. Both arms must remain in constant contact with chest/rib cage throughout the exercise. A single repetition consists of raising the upper body from the starting position until both forearms or elbows simultaneously touch the thighs, and then returning to the starting position with the shoulder blades touching the deck.

(4) The buttocks will remain in constant contact with the deck throughout the event. No arching of the lower back or lifting the buttocks is permitted.

(5) An assistant may be used to hold a Marine's legs or feet, at or below the knees in whatever manner that is most comfortable for the Marine. Kneeling or sitting on the Marine’s feet is permitted.

(6) A repetition will be counted when an accurate and complete abdominal crunch is performed.

[22DevilPup87]

Yay! Thanks, Jen!

[poolee_plaster]

Wow! No better answer than that, Jen!

[jenrmurray]

Yer welcome! :)

[lurchenstein]

Good work, Jen!
Marine Corps has the last word on the technique.
My last post was only to show there's a difference between situps & crunches. (You can't use your hands to help pull yourself up by the neck.)

[jenrmurray]

Thank you, Staff Sergeant! :) I hesitated to post the MCO, but then I realized that your post was, indeed illustrating the difference. Haha.. now we are all educated! :)

[Seeley]

Yeah, sit ups were replaced with crunches because the sit ups were bad for your back or so I heard. Crunches isolate the abdominal muscles for a maximum efficiency.

[thedrifter]

Preparation Guide for the Marine Corps Physical Fitness Test

Congratulations on your decision to pursue a commission in the United States Marine Corps. As you know, physical fitness is a trademark of Marines. The following programs are designed to help you improve your current level of physical fitness and improve your score on the Physical Fitness Test. (PFT). These programs are geared toward beginners, so you can tailor them to suit your current level of fitness.

THE ARMSTRONG PULLUP PROGRAM
Developed by Major Charles Lewis Armstrong, USMC, this program consists of two workouts per day, five days a week. Most people who stick with this program are able to do 20 pullups within 4 to 6 weeks.

Every morning, do three maximum effort sets of push-ups. Major Armstrong said that he would get out of bed and hit the floor to do his first max set. He would then go and shave, and return to do his next set. A few minutes later, he would do his third maximum effort set. The push up is one of the best exercises to develop arm strength for pull-ups. The rest of the routine goes like this:

Monday Do five max effort sets of pull-ups, resting one minute between each set

Tuesday Do a pyramid of repetitions, starting with one pull-up then 10 seconds of rest, 2 pull-ups and 20 seconds of rest, 3 pull-ups and 30 seconds of rest, and so on until you are unable to do more repetitions than your previous set.

Wednesday Do three “training sets” of overhand pull-ups three sets of underhand pull-ups, and three sets of overhand pull-ups where the back of your neck touches the bar. A training set is dictated by your current level of strength. If you are advanced, it might be 5 or 6. Rest one minute between sets. The goal of the workout is to do the same number of repetitions per set, so start off conservatively, if you can only do 1, use one.

Thursday Do training sets, resting one minute between each set, until you are unable to complete a set. Use the same number of repetitions that you used in your Wednesday sets. This will probably turn out to be your longest (and hardest) day.

Friday Repeat the day that you had the most trouble with during the week.

Take the weekends off. Your muscles will need this time to recover. Females can adapt the flexed arm hang to this program by simply replacing repetitions with hang times. The key to this program is regularity and COMMITMENT. If you follow the program consistently, you should see improvement within a few weeks.

CRUNCHES


To do a correct Marine Corps crunch, lay on your back with your feet flat on the deck, and your butt close to your heels. Your arms should be crossed on your chest or your stomach. They cannot come off of your chest/stomach during the PFT. To do a correct crunch, raise your upper body off of the deck until your forearms touch your thighs. Go back down until your shoulder blades touch the deck. That is one crunch. To max the crunches on the PFT, you must do 100 in 2 minutes. There are several different ways to train for the crunches.

Endurance Sets To be able to do 100 crunches in two minutes, you must first develop the endurance to do 100 crunches. Get into position, and do 100 crunches without keeping track of time. Focus on proper form. After you do 100, rest for a couple of minutes and repeat. You should do 2 more maximum effort sets, building up to 3 sets of 100 crunches.

Speed Sets Get into position, and do 30 crunches as fast as you can, while still maintaining proper form. Rest for 1 minute and repeat. You should do 5 or 6 sets in this manner.

Incline Sets If you have any access to an incline board, get into position on it and do as many crunches as you can, until you cannot physically complete a complete crunch. Rest 1 minute and repeat. Do 3 to 4 sets in this manner.

RUNNING

The only way to get faster is to run, run, run. However, heading out the door and trotting along a few times a week will not do much to lower your time!!! I hear “Maam, I run three times a week and never get any faster” Ask yourself are you running or are you jogging? A little discomfort is ok and if you only run within your comfort zone you are going to stay a turtle forever.

Here is a simple plan for beginners who want to build speed and endurance, and prepare for the PFT. Experienced runners can modify the mileage and speed in these workouts to suit their level of fitness and/or goals.

Every run should begin with a five minute warm-up jog, followed by five to ten minutes of stretching, hitting all the major muscle groups. Each run should end the same way, with a cool down jog and stretching. Having good flexibility will go a long way to reduce the chance of injury and improve your times.

Sunday Long run. This is your endurance building day. Run 4-6 miles at a slow, comfortable pace (probably 1-2 minutes per mile slower than your current 3 mile PFT pace).

Monday Off

Tuesday Speed Day. Find a track, or an area where you can measure out 200, 400, and 800 meters. After warming up, run 800 meters at a pace faster than your current PFT pace. It should not be an all out sprint, but should still leave you winded. Cool down with a one lap (or two minute) jog, and repeat. In your first few weeks, do two 800’s, two 400’s, and two 200’s. As your fitness increases, you can adjust the intensity of your speed work out.

Wednesday Off

Thursday Tempo Run. Run 3 miles at a pace slightly slower (maybe 20 seconds per mile) than your current PFT pace.

Friday Off

Saturday Hills. Find a hill about 200-400 meters long that is fairly steep, but not so steep that your heels cannot hit the ground when you run. Sprint to the top, and walk or jog back down to recover. Repeat 4-6 times.

INJURY PREVENTION

You will feel initial soreness when you begin a physical training program. If you feel that you are injured, stop immediately and seek medical attention before continuing. These are very basic programs, designed to allow you to adjust them according to your current level of fitness. Good Luck, and have fun with it!!!


http://www.4mcd.usmc.mil/AOP/OSOHyattsville/PT%20Prep%20Guide.htm


The Drifter
:marine:

[22DevilPup87]

Thanks, Drifter!

That's some useful information.

My run and FAH have been coming along well but I've been making slow progress with the crunches.

[cg03]

Originally posted by jenrmurray
I found this on about.*************, it is taken from Marine Corps Order (MCO) P6100-12. So now there is no more debate.

Abdominal Crunch. The goal of the abdominal crunch event is for a Marine to execute as many proper and complete crunches within the prescribed time limit. The procedures are:

(1) 2-minute time limit.

(2) On a flat surface, Marines will lie flat on their back with shoulder blades touching the deck, knees will be bent, and both feet will be flat on the deck.

(3) The arms will be folded across the chest or rib cage with no gap existing between the arms and chest/rib cage. Both arms must remain in constant contact with chest/rib cage throughout the exercise. A single repetition consists of raising the upper body from the starting position until both forearms or elbows simultaneously touch the thighs, and then returning to the starting position with the shoulder blades touching the deck.

(4) The buttocks will remain in constant contact with the deck throughout the event. No arching of the lower back or lifting the buttocks is permitted.

(5) An assistant may be used to hold a Marine's legs or feet, at or below the knees in whatever manner that is most comfortable for the Marine. Kneeling or sitting on the Marine’s feet is permitted.

(6) A repetition will be counted when an accurate and complete abdominal crunch is performed.

I've never heard it called a "situp" before. So to reduce the confusion, on the IST and PFT it is called a "crunch". This description is exactly how I was taught to do it and is the correct way (I believe).

[thedrifter]

Crunches are a modified version of the old Bent-Knee Situp that was part of the orginial PFT.

How many have ever heard of the PRT, that was run by Marines prior to the PFT..........And what were the events and how many......????????????????


The Drifter
Top Moderator

[22DevilPup87]

I'm not sure if it's the same, but at NASS we took a PRT, Physical Readiness Test.

It involved:
1.5 mile run (minimum time to pass: 12:30 for females, 10:30 for males)
push-ups (minimum to pass: 18 in 2 min for females ... I think 32 for males but I can't swear to that)
crunches (minimum to pass: 60 in 2 min)

[wrbones]

The old PRT had five events. Push-ups were one of them, in addition to those that were in use when I was in. the run, pull-ups, and sit-ups. I can't remember what the fifth one was.

[firstsgtmike]

The fifth one was the fireman's carry.

Sit-up were originally straight legged and you had to touch your toes. Later it was modified to bent knees and you were required to come up to a perpendicular position.

[Semper_Marine]

Jenmurray, you hit the nail on the head. For PT in the fleet we often do sit-ups rather than the crunches described above, but as it says that's the PFT way, and that's what matters. I've been told that abs heal fast after a workout, so doing a max set (max number without stopping) in a 2 minute time limit twice a day will rocket your crunch score in a PFT. In reality, pull ups are more important/worth more points each.
Semper Fi,
Semper_Marine

[Seeley]

thedrifter,
Thanks for posting that link about the fitness program. I've been on it for a week now and its already showing improvements. My muscles are nice and tight again like they were when I did PT weight lifting after school each day. This is a great program!