View Full Version : 300,000 M-14s Destined for Trash Pile
Read this, and then sigh the onling petition.
A petition drive is underway to convince lawmakers to "civilianize" hundreds of thousands of M-14 military battle rifles so they can be legally sold by the government to the general public as a way to pay for the Iraq war.
According to the online petition, "there is a strong demand for an M-14 DCM [Director of Civilian Marksmanship] program, which will curb government waste by providing up to $300-600 million [for] deficit reduction."
"With uncertainty of the price tag of the current war, this will help pay for freedoms we enjoy in this country," says the petition. "With the looming war deficit, our government should not throw away hundreds of millions of dollars by destroying M-14 rifles some of which are brand new."
The petition, which is being spearheaded by Robert A. Yoder, says as many as 300,000 rifles could wind up in the scrap heap without the government getting any return on its investment.
The DCM program to save the M-14s could work like a similar program involving another venerable military workhorse, the M-1 (Garand) and M-1 carbine series of military rifles.
The DCM sold those through the Civilian Marksmanship Program, a course that promotes firearms safety training and rifle practice for all qualified U.S. citizens with special emphasis on youth.
The Civilian Marksmanship Program also offers for sale AR-15-type match rifles, M1917 Enfields, M1903 bolt-action rifles (a former U.S. military weapon) and .22-caliber target rifles at subsidized rates.
"The U.S. Rifle, 7.62 mm, M-14 was the first rifle the U. S. fielded, that improved upon the highly regarded U. S. Rifle, Caliber.30, M1 (Garand) and attempted to give U. S. Forces a NATO-standardized weapon," "The M-14 came into active service around 1957 and remained the standard infantry weapon until the official adoption of the M-16 rifle in the late 1960s.
"Like its predecessor, the M-14 is now relegated to ship's arms rooms, ROTC detachments, storage bins in government arsenals and, of late, the demilitarized scrap pile," says the petition.
© 2003 WorldNetDaily.com
Sign the petition here:
http://www.petitiononline.com/M14CMP03/petition.html
http://citationexpress.com/RG227_small.jpg
Semper Fi
Bob
Thanks, Bob. #13,910.
Semper Fidelis,
Frank
Mike 3/4 1966
3dCIT 1971
2091351
06-24-03, 05:44 PM
#13634
W T F?
Is there someone in Congress that pays taxes? This is a no-brainer. The M-1 program was a win-win, why can't this one be the same?
Take care-Steve
S/F
Thanks Bob I signed and I wish when they start looking for money they should cut the salaries of all those washington big wigs
Semper FI
Stan:marine:
lurchenstein
06-25-03, 01:53 AM
Read & signed. I'd be more than happy to "adopt" one.
Art Petersn
06-25-03, 06:07 AM
13728 signed
Thanks Bob. The M14 was the first service rifle that I shot and qualified with.
donaldduct
06-25-03, 07:55 AM
13744
sounds like a plan to me
GunnerMike
06-25-03, 08:27 AM
13746. Michael L. Donnelly
Comment: Any destruction of these rifles should be considered as waste, fraud, and abuse of government property and funds.
A DCM M14 would make great company for my three (03) M1's, M1903A3, M1917, four (04) AR-15's, and M1A. Can Y'all tell I like rifles?
This will cause severe hyperventilation among the Democrats on The Hill and whatever Sarah Brady's bunch is calling themselves these days.
:p I neglected to add my Remington 700 PSS in .308, and she is very annoyed.
sgtfowler
06-25-03, 10:32 AM
# 13769
richgitz
06-25-03, 10:53 AM
Count me in. #13771.:yes:
In 1964 I qualified High Marksman with the M-14
In late 1966 after returning from Nam I qualified High Expert
Only missed one 6" bull at 500 meters, today I can't even see the 6" bull at 500 meters!
http://citationexpress.com/WS11_small.jpg
Semper Fi,
Bob
Barndog
06-25-03, 11:10 AM
# 13774.
Semper Fidelis - To the Corps
Barndog
Sgt0811
06-25-03, 12:51 PM
13793 I would like to adopt one myself
Sgt Sostand
06-25-03, 02:57 PM
i shure would like to have one in my gun rack
Super Dave
06-25-03, 03:04 PM
13821.....Every Marine should have one..
airframesguru
06-25-03, 03:12 PM
dad always talked aboput them before he went on to the flight line in the sky. I would love to give one a good home.
a 6" bull at 500 meters???????????
gigagrunt
06-25-03, 06:25 PM
#13,862
gigagrunt
06-25-03, 06:28 PM
IVALIS - A SIX INCH BULLSEYE FROM 500 METERS
as i recall, 12" bull at 200 meters, a 20" bull at 300 & 500 w/ a 3" v ring
Keep in mind that I am referring to the M-14 and M-1 qualification requirement, not the M-16 qualification requirements, which are two different beasts.
When I say 6" Bull, I mean 6" Bull which is the center mark.
In the 60's before the M-16, we actually used a 6" bull at 200 Meters and a 22" Silhouette target at the 300 meter position, because of the multiple firinging position requirement at 300 meters.
The target at 500 meters was definitely a 6" center. To fire expert you needed most of your hits in the center mark, not in one of the Rings on the outside.
The outside rings were not a concern if you wanted to qualify Expert, especially High Expert!!!!!!
The M-16 in the hands of the average marksman was very effective at 300 meters but was very dificult to control at 500 mteres therefore you had a much larger target.
As a result of my High Expert qualification I became a Range Instructor my last summer in the Corps. I had an opportunity to use the M-1, M-14 and the M-16 at 700 Meters and 1000 meters, firing at a 22 silliest target.
At these distances I actually prefer the M-1. The longer barrel gave it an edge over the M-14 and M-16 was about as effective as Rock.
Semper Fi,
Bob
montana
06-26-03, 09:34 AM
oh
no way will i believe that the bullseye was 6" at 500 meters, the "V" ring may have been, not the bull.
was looking at a flic in the boot year book, didn't give the dimensions, it definitely was more than 6"
CPLRapoza
06-26-03, 06:38 PM
# 14702
This weapon saved my dads life on many occassions, and also the lives of many American services men in Veitnam. It is stupid that they are willing to destroy them.
Sniperone
06-27-03, 08:36 AM
#14130........
As a Master class Service Rifle competitor and "Presidents Hundred" recipient in 2000 I would really like to see this happen. even though most shooters are now using the "Black Gun" in competition, the M-14 is a valuble piece of our military history and should be treated as such.
Ok Ive been doing some extensive research on the 500 yard target issue
It would appear that I owe an apology to a couple of you who questioned the 6 bull
!! I was wrong - You were correct
My only reference was the NRA LR-7 target which is a take off of the Military B-3 Target. The LR-7 is the 30.06 and 7.62 500 yard Match Target and it does have a 6 Bull or Black Aiming area.
However the Military B-3 target has a much larger Bull that was modified twice since it was adopted in 1913.
Prior to the introduction of the M-14, the Military B-3 Target was 6x 6 with a 20" Bull and 2 outside rings totaling 37 of qualification area.
After its modification the Bull was modified to include a 12 V Ring however I don't remember the V Ring.
And I was also wrong about the 200 Yard target as well, It is classified Military A-3 Target and it has an 8 Black center.
These targets were replaced in 1967 with the decimal targets still in use today.
It appears that the only thing I had right was the 22 silhouette Target used on the 300 Yard line which is classified the Military D Target
Well its only been 38 years and I have bad days too!
Semper Fi,
Bob
2091351
06-27-03, 08:12 PM
Shucks Bob, I cannot remember half of that stuff. All I know is that the M-14 was a heck of a bullet launcher. I doubt if we will ever see them in the same type of program as the M-1. Too damn bad, for everyone. It is/was/and will be a very nice weapon system. Folks in Iraq can tell even more stories about them.
Take care-shoot straight-Steve
The photo below best displays the visual differences between the M-14 and M-16
However it does not describe the feeling us old grunts had when the M-14 was replaced by the M-16, it was almost worse than losing your best friend.
The M-14 with fully loaded, 20 round Mag, weighed in at 11.5 lbs, a fully loaded magazine weighed 1.5 lbs. and we carried a minimum of 5 extra mags each.
The M-14 had a maximum effective range of 766 Yards in semi auto and 500 yards on full auto. On full auto it fired at a rate of 700 rounds per minute.
The M-16 has a maximum effective range of 400 meters, weighs just over 6 lbs fully loaded and it had the capacity to fire 950 rounds per minute on full auto and 700 rounds per minute on semi auto.
The M-14 Was used throughout the Vietnam war, first as the primary assault rifle and later as a secondary sniper rifle or long range assault rifle and light machine gun.
The Marine Corps was the last to switch over to the M-16 because of its inherent jamming problem which was caused by two facts.
(1) The initial 5.56 ammo used corrosive stick powder which burned slower than Ball powder and left un burnt residue in the chamber that would build up and cause jamming.
(2) The receiver was not chromed as was the M-1 and M-14 and therefore very susceptible to corrosion and pitting.
Once they changed over to the Ball powder and chromed the receiver, the weapon became a very stable platform.
I would love to own one of these M-14s for nostalgia, but today with my reduced vision, long range targeting has become very difficult.
I think if I were going off to do battle today, I would take the M-16 and ware lots of camouflage.
Semper Fi,
Bob
http://citationexpress.com/M14_M16.jpg
MarineAO
06-28-03, 11:08 AM
Done when do I get mine?
yellowwing
06-28-03, 02:57 PM
14300 - But I'd have to have an extra 9 yards of paperwork to get one into Canada. I might be worth it!
greybeard
06-28-03, 11:34 PM
submitted, but forgot my #. Just happened to run across this page today while looking for USMC stories. Sad.....
http://www.jouster.com/lanestips/edvisit3.html
SHOOTER1
06-29-03, 10:58 AM
#14394, Maybe its time the gov.gave back to the Vets, I think they owe us at least a option of buying a piece of equipment that saved our lives in Nam,and defended the rights they now enjoy, they have taken everything else away that was promised us if we would place our lives on the line, Of course, look at what they have given us, Agent Orange, PTSD, DisAbilities, Amputees, gee maybe Im wrong, They have given us a lot.:mad: :mad: