Airman crossing over to the USMC [Archive] - Marine Corps

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lbfam730

01-22-09, 03:27 PM

Hello Marines,

I am a 29 years old Air Force Sergeant stationed in New Mexico. After serving for 9.5 years, I decided to separate in October of this year and join the Marine Corps. Back in 2004 I volunteer for convoy duty and deployed to Iraq. When I touched down I found out that I will not be be going on convoys and was very disappointed. A week went by and a spot opened up at a camp which was known for not having the commodities that other Camps in the AO had and also convoy duty will be part of the deal. I jumped at the opportunity and was sent off to be with a small group consisting of Coalition troops. After a month, most of the US troops were replaced with Marines, including the C.O. and the X.O.

At the Camp myself and another Sergeant were the only AF members and as you already know it was a whole new world from what us Airmen were used to. As time went by, I learned to greatly respect the Marines for numerous reason, especially their professionalism and proficiency when it came to getting the job done. Over the months our group became a close team and it was the very first and only time I felt the brotherhood and comradity in my years of service.

After returning to the States I wanted to get out of the AF and join the Corps but did not because I didn't want to get dropped from E-4 down to E-2 (clearly shows that I was not committed) so I reenlisted and PCS'd to Germany. After qualifying for AF Para-Rescue Jumper, I requested to be sent back to the States for Indoc after completing a 3.5 year tour.

I've now been back for three months and made the decision to be a Marine because even after I become a PJ, I know that i'll always be in awe when I spot a Marine. Since I have prior service I will graduate as an E-2. I figured the rank and pay deduction is just money which can always be "earned" down the road. I do not want to be in my death bed wishing that I joined the Corps to begin with. I called the recruiter yesterday and informed the Corporal that I would like to sign on the dotted line as 0311. He said that there is no opening as of now but the slots will be opening up around October which works out great since I seperate in October. After answering some of his questions, I got the answer I wanted; "It shouldn't be a problem getting you in."

I started this topic just to share my story with the forum members and how the Marines inspired me to make this decision, but didn't think it would end up being so damn long so forgive me if you're thinking that i'm just dragging it on.

Thanks for your service and keep up the great work.

S. Park, SSGT, USAF

GySgtRet

01-22-09, 03:55 PM

Thank you for your service. I have to admit that I admire your courage as recruit training will not be a walk in the park for you, no pun here. I also thank you for your respect of my beloved Marine Corps. Your choice shows this old Gunny that I would be proud to serve with you. Good luck and happy hunting.

Gunny out
:usmc:

nvusmcsgt

01-22-09, 04:20 PM

Thank you for your service. Once you graduate boot camp you will truly understand the brotherhood and camradarie of the Marine Corps. Good luck and keep us posted.

lbfam730

01-22-09, 04:42 PM

Thank you Gunnery Sergeant and SGT Brandenburg for the support. I know that all Marines will understand and support my decision. I do not expect majority of the AF to, so far it's been 100% negative and their opinion is a clear proof and a motivation to why I need to start new/continue my military service.

I just realized that this post should've been inserted in the Recruit section of the forum. My apologies all.

thewookie

01-22-09, 04:56 PM

I went to a school with a couple of PJ's and they were good to go, fact is if I was a PJ I might stay there. But, if your heart is telling you to be a Marine, then I think you should do it; your training, experience, and wisdom will serve you well.

Boot camp should be easy, you should be more focused and glide into a leadership role, don't get cocky; they will and want to break you down. In the fleet, as long as you listen and learn, shut your mouth about anything you did, then you'll do fine. You know,, don't sing it, bring it. Good luck, keep us posted.

lbfam730

01-22-09, 05:18 PM

Just to let the members know, I qualified to be a PJ but I am not a PJ because I did not get sent off to Indoc yet and complete their training. I do not want the members to think that I'm something I'm not. Don't get me wrong, I hold AF Special Operators highly but the Corps is what is/have been in my heart and I know that it will be the right choice, no question about it.

I'm not correcting you in any way "thewookie" but I don't think I will ever be 100% ready for Boot Camp. My older brother served as a Marine and he also enlightened me on the fact that the Drill Instructors should drill me harder because I am older than most if not all the recruits and prior service. I'm not sure how true this is but it makes perfect sense to me and I hope and know that Marine Corps boot camp will be a challenge I long for. Thank you for your advise "thewookie".

CHOPPER7199

01-22-09, 06:03 PM

I Think I Would Push For At Least An E-3 On Contract. Heck, If They Give E-3 Away Because They Get A Couple Of Buds To Join, I Would Think You Would Deserve As Much With Time To Service In Already. Just An Old Salts Opinion. Good Luck.

SGT7477

01-22-09, 06:07 PM

lbfam730

01-22-09, 06:15 PM

PFC. The recruiter said that E-2 is the highest rank I can have on contract. From what my brother told me, the only way I can earn E-3 out of boot camp is if I become an Honor Graduate.

redman1

01-22-09, 06:18 PM

Thank you for your service. Once you graduate boot camp you will truly understand the brotherhood and camradarie of the Marine Corps. Good luck and keep us posted.

Welcome aboard when it happens.You will never regret it.
Keep in touch and let us know what happens.
Wishing you the best and thanks for your prior service.
Being a Marine is something you will never regret or forget.
We always stick together and never leave a fallen behind.
Even though most of us have been out a long time we still are Marines and are close.
Semper Fi Redman1

SGT7477

01-22-09, 07:37 PM

PFC. The recruiter said that E-2 is the highest rank I can have on contract. From what my brother told me, the only way I can earn E-3 out of boot camp is if I become an Honor Graduate.

You are losing alot of rank, but earning our title of Marine is priceless, you should be able to move up in rank quick, Good Luck.:flag:

redman1

01-23-09, 06:34 AM

:thumbup: <br />
I agree don't know how I could deal with that myself. <br />
In my day some said rank was hard to get but I busted my ass and was spit and polish all the way and always cutting off any Irish...

Quinbo

01-23-09, 07:13 AM

I too applaud you in your desires to become a Marine. I just don't get it though a PJ giving up rank and pay to join the run jump and swim club with no guarantees you'll even make it.

I went to boot camp with a prior service airman and he was treated no different from anyone else. He was 10 years older than most of us and not stellar but he made it through hell with the rest of us. We wouldn't have even known he had been in the air force if he hadn't told us and the drill instructors really could care less.

redman1

01-23-09, 07:58 AM

SGT7477

01-23-09, 12:27 PM

I've heard like say if a Marine were to go to another branch he would move up in rank.

yellowwing

01-23-09, 01:59 PM

Sgt Park, as a Marine I am glad to see your interest in Our Beloved Corps.

But I can't help but think that if you reenlist USAF that you would get into the PJs. I'm sure that elite group has the same Commraderie as we do.

I can only logically see the service switch if your ultimate goal is to try out for one of our elite groups like Recon or MARSOC.

Eric Hood

01-23-09, 02:42 PM

This is a nice compliement from an Air Men. Good luck!
Eric:iwo:

lbfam730

01-23-09, 02:55 PM

Thank you for your input. Joining the Corps is something I wanted to do long before I thought about PJ. My goal is to make it to Recon but I didn't want to bring that up because first I need to graduate boot camp before taking the next step. After graduation and having some experience as 0311 I will look into Recon, graduation is my only concern and priority.

Every branch/units has different missions and this is what draws me the most.

Zulu 36

01-23-09, 03:17 PM

It's been my experience that they would be treated worse.
I don't believe I could make it in Boot Camp after I was 24 or older. It was hard enough the first time at 18.
I also don't know how they can promise you a certain rank.
I know times change and that's one reason I got out.
Allot to be said about the old days.
Semper Fi Redman1

My old Air Guard unit was located on a base that had AF Reserve PJs. They were a tough bunch of critters. If anyone is physically and mentally fit enough to be a PJ, they are almost assured of making it through Marine boot camp.

PJs and Combat Controllers were about the only active duty AF people I had any true respect for.

PJcone

05-06-09, 07:43 AM

lbfam730,

I am a Cone - a Pararescue pipeline student. If you think being an 0311 is being less of a pussy - maybe you should see if you can SURVIVE indoc before you look past PJ to the Marine Corps. If that's where your mind is at, I guarantee you will not make it through ETD (extended training day) - let alone your first moderate harassment water con session.

If the Marine Corps is what you want - go join the Marines. Don't waste the Air Force money nor the Cadre's time. I'm not sure if you're aware, but PJ's have the most difficult special operations school in the military with an 89% fail rate and it is not a job to be taken as light as a stepping stone down to a Marine Corps 0311 slot.

PS. If you think you'll never be ready for USMC boot camp, you have a long way to go. Good luck in indoc, you're gonna need it.

SrA cone

lbfam730

05-06-09, 09:32 AM

SrA Cone,

First

SGT-JOHN-ADDY

05-06-09, 10:54 AM

Redman1: It Wasn't That Bad. I Was 25 Almost 26 When I Joined. I Worked A Desk Job (architecture) When I Join. I Drove Over An Hour To Get To Work And Then Sit On My Ass For 9 Hours....i Got To Boot An Thought Omg They Are Gonna Kill Me But I Went Into Bootcamp Doing 15 Pulls Up And My 100 In 2 Minutes...but Run Time Wasn't Very Well.....i Think @ The Ist For A Mile An Half It Was Like 14 Minutes Or Something Like That Give Or Take....but I Came Out Of Bootcamp Running 3 Miles In Just Under 20 Minutes...and I'm A Smoker..lol....at One Point We Had A Comp. To See Who Could Do The Most Crunches In 2 Minutes And Pull Ups.....i Did 30 Pull Ups And 252 Crunchs In The Comp....had One Guy Do 39 Pull Up And 243 Crunchs.....i've Been Out Now For 3 Years...and I Miss It...

lbfam730

05-06-09, 11:04 AM

SrA Cone,

First of all i don't remember writing anything negative about the PJ or the Air Force. I have the utmost respect for PJ's and CCT's who make it through training and into the field. I'm not passing up PJ because it's "pussy" and i defenitely am not stepping down to anything. If you read my first post carefully, you would've seen that i clearly wrote that i am going into the USMC so i don't know why you're talking about me wasting AF's money nor the Cadre's time. I've done my time in the AF proudly and she's been good to me and for that i'm greatful so i don't need someone telling me otherwise.

You're going towards being a PJ because that's your passion and I'm going into the Corps because this is my passion. Good luck with what you're doing and hope you get your coveted maroon beret.

For the rest my plans have changed. i will finish college after i seperate so i can join as a infantry officer.

thewookie

05-06-09, 01:45 PM

the most difficult special operations school in the military with an 89% fail rate

I think you need to get off the kool aid. You might think it's the toughest, and I respect PJ's, but I have a hard time believing it's the toughest. And I'm not here to get into a peeing contest with you. I just think that might be a little overinflated.

An 89% failure rate - that is unacceptable. I know the failure rate is high, and it should be to some extent, but 89% doesn't seem legit to me. That tells me they have poor screening, poor training, poor instruction, poor leadership and poor follow-through.

Failure rates in my opinion, are not an accurate barometer of the toughness of any school.

What a complete waste of time, money and resources to send 10 guys and only receive one back. That doesn't tell me the school is tough, it tells me they need to reevaluate the training.

thewookie

05-06-09, 02:12 PM

I should have done some research before I opened my spout...

http://www.aetc.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123103648 This AF site has it at 60-70% for the initial training.

I will say in all honesty that I found some sites that back-up the 90% claim. However, garbage in is garbage out. Improved screening of more qualified applicants will/should produce better results.

Still, I am not doubting that the PJ's are a highly trained specialized unit that I want on my side.

jetdawgg

05-06-09, 03:54 PM

Good luck Airman. The Corps is a lot different than any other branch of the US Military. You have to become one of us, so there is more to it than joining.

Thanks for the props, I usually here how dumb we are from Airmen (still today).

I started to go into AF, but the Marine Recruiters were more adamant about me becoming a Marine. I have no regrets about that decision. I meet Marines today on the streets and we all have that comraderie between us.

Nothing like it.

Even the Female Marines. Good luck and drop us a line or two when possible. I love the USMC:usmc:

thewookie

05-06-09, 04:25 PM

I thought about this a little on the ride home from work. They spend a long time going to various schools to get the beret. So, that's another plausible explanation as to why the overall failure rate is so high. Some guys have to rock out at some point, they might be good at X but they suck at Y. Plus, over that long of a period of time - lots of guys must DOR due to family stuff and other "life happens" type of things. And some get sent packing for other things like, partying too much and academic failures.

So, maybe I was a little harsh earlier saying it was due to the training; which, come to think of it it must be top-notch.

But I still think 90% is way too high.

charm1110

05-06-09, 04:30 PM

If the Marine Corps is what you want - go join the Marines. Don't waste the Air Force money nor the Cadre's time. I'm not sure if you're aware, but PJ's have the most difficult special operations school in the military with an 89% fail rate and it is not a job to be taken as light as a stepping stone down to a Marine Corps 0311 slot.

Please explain this statement to me are you saying you consider choosing to become a 0311 a step down from being in the Air Force? I don't give a F!@## what your JOB in the Air Force is it takes more dedication, commitment, and motivation to become a Marine than anything else in the United States Armed Forces.
I don't expect you to understand MY Brotherhood !! but I will not stand by and let you say being an 0311 is a step down from anything:devious:

Rocky C

05-06-09, 05:02 PM

lbfam730,
Follow your Heart. You have thought about this through and through.
Go for it. You will be giving up alot and you know this already but Nothing Compares.
I hope we will all here from you when you get back from "Boot" so we can welcome you to the "Brotherhood"
Good Luck my Friend,
Rocky

PJcone

05-07-09, 02:14 AM

lbfam730,

Firstly i want to apologize. Upon re-reading my post it does seem to come off more hostile than I had intended. I merely meant to get accross to you what many other retrainees have assumed about the school - that it is easier now that you've been in the Air Force for a number of years. I have nothing but respect for any infantryman - but if that's what you want (which I know it is) then godspeed. I just sensed a lot of nonchalant referrals to what PJ school would be for you. Good luck, be the O that those Marines can look up to on the battlefield.

charm1110,

Understand me when I refer to going through SOI is much less demanding than Pararescue Indoc - I am not knocking you gentlemen in any way. If our man lbfam were to go through two years of special operations training to go into a job which requires none of it would seem inpractical to me. I've served with the infantry in both past deployments and have nothing but respect for what you do on a daily basis. Cool your jets about what it takes to be a Marine - my closest friends from back home are all Marines (LAV,0311,Recon Sniper). Pararescue or Combat Control in the Air Force are only comprable to FR, SEAL and SF. These pipeline schools are not on the plane of other combative jobs in the armed forces. I assure you I wouldn't talk down to your job - we all do our part, and yours is the most demanding and necessary. Godspeed.

thewookie,

Any special forces specialty will weed out candidates to find the few who will give everything for the mission - Pararescue being that you will place your assigned duties before personal desires and comforts, our mission is to bring em home at high risk to our lives. The training is extensive and specific and easily weeds out those who don't want it enough to do the job right. My team started with 83 and graduated 13 - and that's only the first 9 weeks on indoc with two years of training left. Granted a few were injured and set back, but that was only two or three individuals who will make it the next time around, God willing.

-SrA cone

JWDevilDog

05-07-09, 03:12 AM

Well, personally lbfam730, I sincerely respect and admire your decision, and I humbly thank you for your service.

All service is good service (well, for the most part...). And you certainly seem to have done your part in the USAF.

I think you will be well suited as an infantry officer. Let me ask you this, though. How close are you to getting your degree? It is possible to sometimes finish degrees while on active duty, especially if you are far enough into it. Or you could enlist as a reservist and finish your degree that way. This way, you would still be a Marine, wouldn't have to wait as long, and you could go the Mustang route.

In either case, it would give you time to experience the enlisted side of life as a Marine (I know you did as an airmen, but I can't help but thinking that it is entirely different as a Marine). Who knows, you might just fall in love with being an enlisted Marine. You can always try for an officer's commission later, but you can't really be an officer and go back to being enlisted. Just my two cents.

Whatever you decide, I support it and am grateful that someone with a good head on their shoulders is joining. You are joining for the right reasons, and you have nothing to be ashamed of.

charm1110

05-07-09, 03:07 PM

Ibfam730,

I fully support your desire to become a Marine and wish you the best of luck in accomplishing your goal. Thank you for your service in the USAF and Godspeed.

PJ Cone,

First I looked up your Pararescue indoc course and it really doesn't look any harder than what our SOI would be aside from the emphasis on swimming which we don't get into as intensely at the basic 0300 level. As far as push-up, pull up, sit-up and run times our P.F.T is more demanding minus the push-ups our P.F.T. doesn't require us to do 65 push ups in 2 min. I dare say any Marine in S.O.I. would be able to pump that out with hardly breaking a sweat.

Second,

I will give you the fact that to complete the entire training cycle"pipeline' to become a PJ is extremely demanding and more on par with other "special forces". However the people that choose these programs are generally more motivated to do so.

Third,

I stand behind my initial comment that I will not stand for anyone trying to say that being an 0311 is less than anything else! I by the way was an 0341 in a line company and know first hand what it takes.

Fourth,

You gotta get through Bootcamp first and I wish Ibfam and anyone else who wants to the best of luck with that.

Fifth,

The mission of the Marine Corps. Infantry is to locate, close with, and detroy the enemy by fire and manuever.

The Mission of the USAF Pararscue Airman is to recover downed and injured aircrew members in austere and non-permissive environments.

Lastly,

I like every other Marine and Veteran in this forum respect all of our "brothers in arms" regardless of what branch of the military they serve in.

Semper Fi...:flag:

JWDevilDog

05-08-09, 03:56 AM

Fifth,

The mission of the Marine Corps. Infantry is to locate, close with, and detroy the enemy by fire and manuever.

The Mission of the USAF Pararscue Airman is to recover downed and injured aircrew members in austere and non-permissive environments.

I like this tidbit.

echo3oscar1833

05-08-09, 10:15 AM

I like this tidbit.

Agree thats fuc$ing hardcore and motivating. YUT!!

Namster

05-09-09, 10:04 PM

Very interesting decision.

SSgt Park, consider your decision very carefully. You are gonna enter a whole new universe/dimension if you lat move from the AF to USMC.

I have know several guys who did the reverse. Why? Because they could and said it was much easier, but also harder in some ways.

I've known several PJ/CCT's so let me say they are very professional, squared away, and solid. They go through some very selective and tough schools.

But to say they have the toughest selection is BS. And to come into a USMC board and say being 0311 is less is not very smart.

How do I know? I went through the same schools and more.

I'd argue that the failure rate, as some here have already mentioned, is due to poor candidates, rather than tough criteria.

Come on, these are AF guys. Most of them hold hands and sing kumbaya. They whine if they don't have 3 hots every day. Besides even the blue shirts are seen as the easiest way to become SOF.

With that said, once they become PJ/CCT, they do get a lot of various special schools, and do have a great time. Plus, I think they have more marketable skill as a civilian than 0311.

As an 03xx, you have to:
(1) deal w/ more daily crap than a manure farmer,
(2) do far more w/ far less,
(3) have more sense of tradition and pride,
(4) did I mention dealing w/ crap on a daily basis, more chicken-sh** than a chicken farmer.

Just my $0.02;)

Seriously, I respect what all military members do, some just seem more inflated than others.