View Full Version : MCMAP Training/Advancement
Chevron77
12-28-08, 08:25 PM
Hello Marines. I'm currently a poolee in DEP and I haven't been able to get much info on this topic. From what I read on here about MCMAP, Marines obtain the tan belt during boot and after that the only way to advance to a higher level is to challenge a higher level Marine upon which if you should win you would recieve the particular belt/level of the Marine you defeated. That said, I was wondering how training in MCMAP is conducted. Is it something you take up on your own time? Is it only accessible to certain posts? Or do you get assigned to it like jump school or survival school? I'm not trying to be Chuck Norris or anything, this just something that really interests me about the Corps. Any info would be appreciated. Thank you for your time Marines.
:usmc:
CPL Nelly
12-28-08, 09:27 PM
Wow, someone fibbed to you. The way to advance is to take a class for the next higher level and at the end of the class take a prac app test. It will depend on how much work your unit has to accomplish and whether of not it is pertinent to your personal training. I.E. will it help you in your specific MOS.
Chevron77
12-28-08, 10:25 PM
Right now I'm signed up for combat engineer(hopefully) I signed the charlie mike contract for engineer so we'll see. Does that qualify for MCMAP advancement. I figure infantry and mp mos' are more likely to advance their skills. Do you know if combat engineers would fall into that catagory?
CPL Nelly
12-28-08, 10:32 PM
Like I said it really depends on whether or not your unit thinks it is necessary training and whether it fits into their work schedule.
Enigmatic
12-28-08, 11:28 PM
Where did this challenge someone of a higher belt thing come from???
Funny story bout MCMAP though, my old Company Gunny thought it was pointless and hated doing it. My CO said "Gunny, you're a tan belt. You should at least be a green belt by now." The Gunny said "Sir, if I grapple with the MCMAP Instructor and I make him tap out, will that exclude me from this training?" The CO said no but it'd be fun to watch anyways.
Well, the Gunny went ahead and grappled with the Sgt, who was a Black Belt instructor. The Gunny absolutley crushed the Sgt, made him tap not once but thrice. Turns out the Gunny's a Black Belt in Brazilian Jui-Jitsu. Been studying it since he was like 11.
Funny thing, the day after that, he was still wearing a tan belt, and continued to do so until he earned his Grey Belt. So hmmmm, those stories must not be true.....
0231Marine
12-29-08, 07:05 AM
The whole thing about challenging someone to earn the next belt is rediculous and whoever told you that is probably some tan belt who was to lazy to get the next belt.
Disregard what Cpl Nelly said as well because it doesn't matter what your MOS is. It is not mandatory to advance in belts but nobody is going to stop you either if you really want to progress in your training. You might not be able to do it during working hours but nothing says that you can't take initiative and find an instructor who is willing to do an hour a day during your lunch break or even after you're cut loose for the day. I earned two of my belts while working 18+ hours a day in Iraq so the opportunities are there for you if you make time.
You will earn your tan belt in bootcamp and then you can earn your grey and green belts as a LCpl. You have to be a Cpl to earn your brown belt and a Sgt before you can test for your black belt. Then, if you ever want to become a black belt instructor, you can get orders to Quantico to go through the instructors course and then you can teach other Marines.
Bottom line is, you can get the belts over time if you make time in your schedule for them. Most units have atleast one or two Sgt's or Cpl's who are brown or black belt instructors so ask around when you get to your unit in the fleet. It also looks good if you ever go up on a meritorious board for the next rank and they see that you have taken the initiative to improve your skills and MCMAP proficiency.
MotorT3533
12-30-08, 06:39 PM
I'm not sure if it ever became official, but weren't there plans to roll your belt into your official PME? At one point we were told that they were going to make it mandatory to be a specific belt level in order to be promoted, but then OIF happened and they started giving waivers for boards for PME due to op tempo.
MotorT3533
Scottie0417
12-30-08, 08:25 PM
In my unit we have plenty of Marines that have been in 4+ years with a tan belt still. My platoon sergeant tested me on my grey belt and he said that he got word that he has to get all the tan belts up to a grey by January and by the end of the fiscal year we all need to be up to green. I think they're trying us more involved with MCMAP now since there are so many Marines that have been in for over 4 years that haven't done a MCMAP training session since boot camp.
Chevron77
12-30-08, 08:33 PM
Thank you for the info, it cleared up a lot of questions I had. Going in front of the board for promotion is one of the reasons I'd like to advance in MCMAP, you read my mind Cpl. 0231. Thanks again for the help Marines.
SGT7477
12-30-08, 09:02 PM
Where did this challenge someone of a higher belt thing come from???
Funny story bout MCMAP though, my old Company Gunny thought it was pointless and hated doing it. My CO said "Gunny, you're a tan belt. You should at least be a green belt by now." The Gunny said "Sir, if I grapple with the MCMAP Instructor and I make him tap out, will that exclude me from this training?" The CO said no but it'd be fun to watch anyways.
Well, the Gunny went ahead and grappled with the Sgt, who was a Black Belt instructor. The Gunny absolutley crushed the Sgt, made him tap not once but thrice. Turns out the Gunny's a Black Belt in Brazilian Jui-Jitsu. Been studying it since he was like 11.
Funny thing, the day after that, he was still wearing a tan belt, and continued to do so until he earned his Grey Belt. So hmmmm, those stories must not be true.....
That's a good one,lol.:D
oifvet23
12-30-08, 10:40 PM
Where do they come up with this stuff? Its like the pull it out of the air!
slider1578
12-31-08, 05:01 AM
I know if your in 03 field you need to be a green belt by... now. All combat related MOSs are supposed to be grey belts. It was all supposed to be done before the end of this year... so today. I'm sure some people will slip through the cracks though as always... I got a few in my unit that didn't get their green belts but we'll get them eventually. Any MCMAP related questions I got a few instructors I deal with on a daily basis and they're more then happy to fill people in.
Chevron77
01-01-09, 02:20 PM
I was just wondering about the basics, like what you usually do in a training session? how many hours do you have to put in before advancement?
yellowwing
01-01-09, 02:26 PM
Where do they come up with this stuff? Its like the pull it out of the air!
Hmm...that goofy challenge thing sounds like an Assassin's Creed video game BS.
NoRemorse
01-01-09, 06:35 PM
Hmm...that goofy challenge thing sounds like an Assassin's Creed video game BS.
Lord help you if you haven't documented all your hard-core video game achievements with your recruiter.
The Thunderdome was torn down recently and replaced with a PS3 in every squadbay.
Two recruits play video games, one recruit leaves.
It's a brand new Marine Corps.
Sgt Leprechaun
01-01-09, 10:52 PM
"There I was, in a heavy firefight, running low on ammo, when my squad leader kicked down the door to the room and yelled...
GET OFF THE DAMN PLAYSTATION AND DOWN TO THE MOTOR POOL!"
commdog7
01-02-09, 12:50 AM
It is not mandatory to advance in belts but nobody is going to stop you either if you really want to progress in your training. You might not be able to do it during working hours but nothing says that you can't take initiative and find an instructor who is willing to do an hour a day during your lunch break or even after you're cut loose for the day. I earned two of my belts while working 18+ hours a day in Iraq so the opportunities are there for you if you make time.
This statement is not 100% true. Since I made it to the fleet, I have the determination to upgrade my belt. The reason I am still a tan is because everywhere I go, my command tells me I am not allowed to do MCMAP. No I'm not injuried and no I'm not in any trouble, the only reason the I am not allowed to train for a higher belt is because of where I am stationed. When I was in Iraq, it was a Group order that none of us could practice MCMAP. I guess too many Marine had been injuried, and therefore it was banned. Shortly after returning, I found myself in Africa and later Cuba. Both of these places ban MCMAP, I know, I have asked repeatedly. I would love for the opportunity to upgrade, but no matter how bad I want it, it is ultimately my commands' decision.
It all depends on where you are stationed and what your command says about it.
0231Marine
01-02-09, 06:52 AM
That's weird because as recently as August when I was in Iraq as a contractor, the Marines I was stationed with were doing MCMAP. And a good friend of mine earned his brown and black belts while stationed at Gitmo last year.
It seems to me that if your command is telling you no, then there is some other reason for it. The Marine Corps is not going to ban MCMAP on certain bases because it's to dangerous when they are trying to get everyone to qual and upgrade their belts. That just doesn't make sense at all. I'm still under the belief that if you can find someone to instruct you, then do it. It's stupid to ban (which I don't think is the case) MCMAP because someone might get hurt. That's like saying, "well the O-Course is banned because someone might fall off of that rope."
I'd ask to see the order about MCMAP being banned on your base and if they can't produce one, tell them to shove it.
slider1578
01-07-09, 12:23 AM
I'm going to have to agree with commdog. My unit back in 06 wouldn't let us do MCMAP and some other things because they didn't want us getting hurt and removed from the program before we got our security clearances and moved off to the next duty. Now they reversed that and we do it all the time. Kind of weird but I'm happy we do it now.
Box kicker 101
01-07-09, 12:52 AM
Yeah im out in Iraq right now and there pushing everyone to upgrade now cause once we get back to the rear the tempo of everything is going to moving faster (like usuall) and there will be no time which is during working hours..............me personally ive gotten my belts after "working hours" if theres an instructor around and if there willing to work with you usually they can be flexible with hours just keep a log of your trainer hours and you can even jump around to different trainers
If you google Marine Corps Martial Arts Program (MCMAP) there is most of the info you were asking about. Hours of training per belt, hours of sustainment training required between belts, secondary MOS, ect....
MCMAP MAI(tan tab)(Martial Arts Instructor) courses are taught at the Reg schools level. 3 weeks long, formal school & learn to be an instructor of the MCMAP to marines in Bn, company, plt, ect....
MCMAP MAIT(red tab)(Martial Arts Instructor Trainer) courses are taught at the MACE(Martial Arts Center of Excellence in Quantico. 7 weeks long, formal school & learn to be an instructor of MAI's at Div/Reg schools or Bn, company, ect....
CMC has set criteria for combat arms MOS's and all others as far as advancement goes. Look on the Google.....
Any MOS can be green, brown, black.... there are waivers for everything. case in point: Two cpl's in my black MAI course 5 yrs ago.....
If you dont know, dont spout off.
Wow, someone fibbed to you. The way to advance is to take a class for the next higher level and at the end of the class take a prac app test. It will depend on how much work your unit has to accomplish and whether of not it is pertinent to your personal training. I.E. will it help you in your specific MOS.
I wholeheartedly disagree with the MOS part. Grunts are usually tan/grey, and the POGs at the CLB or CLR level are black belt instructors.
It doesnt have to do with MOS, it has to do with, as you said, "how much work your unit has to accomplish", and grunts definitely dont have time to do MCMAP, not only that but its pretty much BS anyways. You try doing a counter to the round kick in full PPE with a rifle slung around your body...aint gonna happen.
they have made it official, MCMAP is required for advancement... check with your admin shop to get the specifics.
EDIT: as you were... your S-2
themostwanted1
02-19-09, 11:44 AM
What HBomb said was completely correct. My PLT Chief right now instructed at MACE for 2 years. Hes got 3 reds tabs on his belt. Hes a bad bad man. That being said, there are a few things I would like to clear up.
If you are an NCO, you need to be at least a green belt. That is MCO.
If you are an 03, you need to be at least a green belt, regardless of rank. That is also MCO.
Any Marine of a higher belt can instruct MCMAP. Being an instructor just allows you to test out a Marine for a particular belt. So if you have a willing Marine of a higher belt who is locked on about MCMAP, get him to school you up PROPERLY. Then find an instructor to test you out.
Are you serious? When did this happen? I know SNCOs who've been in for 14 years that are tan belts, before we deployed my entire battalion short of just a few Marines were tan belts. We all got promoted. There has to be a loophole or its not strictly enforced.
0231 Marine, its true. We were not allowed to do MCMAP for a few months because the number of MCMAP injuries was getting too numerous. I heard this straight from the MO's mouth.
0231Marine
02-19-09, 12:50 PM
Not calling you a liar, just passing on my experience. I just know what was passed down from the CMC and if your unit doesn't want to comply, then that's on them. Either way, just wanted you to know I wasn't try to dispute the claim.
there is a drop dead date for this MCO to be in effect... I think it's some time this year.
it's intended to allow ample time to get to where you need to be... cause think of the upward progression stoppages because of not having the right belt.
and my understanding is that SNCOs will be required brown at a min. and any higher will be used to set them apart from their peers towards promotion... similar to awards.
PaidinBlood
02-19-09, 02:09 PM
The whole thing got out of hand maybe...somebodys pet project (MCMAP) got out of hand and nobody was paying enough attention to it so they pulled down their pants and showed us who's boss. I (TAN BELT KILL) will not attempt to discredit the whole MCMAP system because I just haven't seen too much of it. I'm just saying why wait 10 years and then all of a sudden require all kinds of mandatory voluntary participation? It is what it is. I wish we'd had time for more hand to hand/martial arts stuff, but mandatory McSlap isn't the answer. How about T3 and what not? Train up the leaders and turn them loose on their minions. Let a couple hard chargers from every company go off to school and get hazed then bring it home. Once again, formal documentation gone totally apeshi t. And the colored belt system? Totally un-Marine. Next will be 550 bootlaces auth. for 1st class CFT'rs. Let the Army have all the codes badges ribbons and traditional hoo-yahs. let Marines do their jobs...
commdog7
02-19-09, 07:45 PM
I heard something about MCMAP being mandatory for promotions a few years ago. What p!sses me off is that everywhere I go, they won't let us do MCMAP because we might get "hurt". The short time that I was in the rear, we didn't have MCMAP classes going. When I was in Iraq, MCMAP was forbidden (group order)- the same with the MSG program. I have continuously asked to do MCMAP, but my command has always said 'no', and now that it's a requirement... I think it is BS. I am still a tan belt. I am not happy that this will prevent me from picking-up.
PaidinBlood
02-19-09, 07:47 PM
Promotions aside, are you pretty stoked about MCMAP?
commdog7
02-19-09, 07:53 PM
I have always wanted that Black Belt! Still looking forward to it.
PaidinBlood
02-19-09, 07:59 PM
Why a MC blackbelt? I mean, can't beat the cost but if you're going to invest the time, might as well pursue something more rounded that will still exist in 20 years...
I heard something about MCMAP being mandatory for promotions a few years ago. What p!sses me off is that everywhere I go, they won't let us do MCMAP because we might get "hurt". The short time that I was in the rear, we didn't have MCMAP classes going. When I was in Iraq, MCMAP was forbidden (group order)- the same with the MSG program. I have continuously asked to do MCMAP, but my command has always said 'no', and now that it's a requirement... I think it is BS. I am still a tan belt. I am not happy that this will prevent me from picking-up.
request mast... it's not like the lower level "management" is making the decision... so the only way to voice your distaste and have it heard would be this route.
doesn't mean they'll allow you to do it... but they'll tell you why.
I mean, I do understand that it's a bad idea on MSG 'cause if you're broke they don't have 40 more to fill your spot... but in garrison... that's really BS.
Why a MC blackbelt? I mean, can't beat the cost but if you're going to invest the time, might as well pursue something more rounded that will still exist in 20 years...
MCMAP is MMA but geared at the lower levels to detain in non-lethal manners. <--EDIT: this is why people think it's a joke and a waste of time.... if they were green belts or higher they'd see the difference.
once you get to green, you're into grappling and beating the snot out of someone, brown is when you start bringing in the dis-arming someone when you have no weapons, black is the one that starts on the combos that end in killing someone... then you get more killing blows the higher number of red tabs on your black belt.
Definitely SSgt, even after I got my grey belt I thought MCMAP was bs. I test out for green tomorrow and I totally see what you mean. The reverse wristlock comealong enhanced pain compliance or whatever the freak its called is the most badass move. I wish I knew that in high school ;) I still think it could be improved, but its better than nothing.
Definitely SSgt, even after I got my grey belt I thought MCMAP was bs. I test out for green tomorrow and I totally see what you mean. The reverse wristlock comealong enhanced pain compliance or whatever the freak its called is the most badass move. I wish I knew that in high school ;) I still think it could be improved, but its better than nothing.
you will be at the highest of non-lethal attacks at green belt with the ability to beat the snot out of people on the ground... wait until brown belt... you'll learn all sorts of rib breaking maneuvers and face mutilation stuff... though it's like it was when you learned tan... uber slow, and it's a baby crawl into what you'll learn in black belt (if you pick up before you get out)
Why's everyone think Im going to get out? I've actually been thinking about reenlisting....
you never know until you are sworn back in... remember you can still walk away when the discharge you... some people like to break from military bearing and shake the persons hand who is doing it... I'd do it if I knew'em...
SGT7477
02-20-09, 05:06 PM
I heard something about MCMAP being mandatory for promotions a few years ago. What p!sses me off is that everywhere I go, they won't let us do MCMAP because we might get "hurt". The short time that I was in the rear, we didn't have MCMAP classes going. When I was in Iraq, MCMAP was forbidden (group order)- the same with the MSG program. I have continuously asked to do MCMAP, but my command has always said 'no', and now that it's a requirement... I think it is BS. I am still a tan belt. I am not happy that this will prevent me from picking-up.
Looks like you will have to do it your own.:D
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