thedrifter
11-09-08, 06:11 AM
November 9, 2008
Six Marines with six stories of life at war and coming home
Keith Matheny
The Desert Sun
They are fathers, brothers and husbands. Business leaders, volunteers and neighbors. Maybe even the umpire of the local softball game.
But the six men The Desert Sun recently gathered at the Palm Springs Air Museum are something else as well: veterans.
The valley residents — all Marines — served in World War II, Korea, Vietnam, the first Gulf War and the current war in Iraq.
In a candid conversation in advance of Veterans Day on Tuesday, they discussed how their service and homecoming were the same, and different.
They talked about society's responsibilities to veterans, and veterans' responsibilities to society.
Coming home
Ray Schum and Les Carlyle had a far different response upon coming home than their fellow Marine, Dave Danford, who served in Vietnam.
Schum, 87, of Cathedral City and Carlyle, 83, of Desert Hot Springs, both served in the Pacific during World War II.
“We came home as heroes, welcomed home,” Schum said.
Added Carlyle, “The country was totally unified, and coming home was a good experience.”
But Vietnam was a far more controversial war on the home front, and Danford, 70, of Palm Springs, said he endured some difficult moments upon his return.
“I have never in my life witnessed such disrespect of the American serviceman,” said Danford, who served 31 years in active duty in the Marines.
“I was spit on in San Francisco; I was called a baby-killer, all of those names, and so were my comrades. It was terrible.”
Danford said it made him disappointed in his fellow countrymen.
“Here a whole bunch of young men did what our commander-in-chief asked us to do, and now we're being disrespected when we come back home,” he said.
Unlike the celebration for the returning World War II veterans and the mixed reaction to returning Vietnam soldiers, those who served in Korea in the early 1950s came home to little reaction, said Quintin Villanueva, 76, of Palm Desert.
“We were known as The Forgotten War,” he said. “It was a United Nations police action. But it was really a war. Ask (those) who got killed over there, the families, and they'll tell you it was a war.
“We came home very quietly. There was no fanfare.”
Perhaps because of a national feeling of guilt for the reception received by some Vietnam veterans, returning soldiers from the 1990-91 Gulf War got the ticker-tape parade treatment, said Eric Pontius, 39, of Desert Hot Springs.
Pontius said his plane from the Middle East arrived in Maine to a waiting crowd of about 3,000 people in a hangar.
“And it was 3 a.m. on a weekday,” he said. “Kids and families, all there to greet the planes as they were coming back stateside. It was completely overwhelming.”
The positive feelings for returning veterans has continued with the Iraq War, said Mark Coates, a junior ROTC instructor in Desert Hot Springs who served three combat tours in Iraq.
“To this day, everywhere I go, at least a couple of times a week, people are stopping me and thanking me for my service,” he said.
A fast transition
After the welcome home, World War II veterans were expected to quickly transition back to civilian life, Schum recalled.
“I got out one day and was hired into a decent job the next day,” he said.
“All I'd really done is changed clothing. I was a personnel manager for an aerospace manufacturing firm, but I really felt like I was a sergeant-major of that plant, and I ran it on that basis.”
Carlyle said he used the G.I. Bill to go to college and earn a degree in engineering. He went on to a long career with aerospace manufacturer and defense contractor McDonnell Douglas.
Carlyle credited the lessons he learned in the Marine Corps for his success later in life.
“When I went in, I was 17 years old, coming from a small town in New Jersey,” he said.
“I was pretty naive. The self-confidence and awareness I got, finding out who I was, that I could handle a tough situation, is something you just don't get any other way.”
Villanueva expressed a similar view.
“I learned so much in the Marine Corps about core values that carried through my entire life up to today.”
Pontius said some were dismissive after the first Gulf War.
After returning from the Middle East, Pontius attended the University of California at Berkeley. He stood up in a class and corrected a professor that he said called the Gulf War “the picnic in the desert.”
“Tens of thousands of Iraqi citizens would disagree,” Pontius said. “Kuwaiti citizens would disagree. Saudi citizens. American families who lost loved ones — they would all not say that that was a picnic.”
Father, son connect
Pontius' experience as a veteran allowed him to reconnect with his father, he said.
“I dropped out of college; I was getting bad grades; I was going in all the wrong directions,” he said.
“I joined the Marine Corps out of contempt, basically. I told my parents, ‘I'll show you; I'll join the Marine Corps.'
“My mom started crying. My dad had the newspaper up, and he didn't even take the paper down, and from behind the paper, he said, ‘Good; maybe it will make a man out of you.'”
Thinking his parents would attempt to talk him out of joining, when they didn't, Pontius said he felt obligated to follow through on his threat.
“I stuck out four years of the Marine Corps to prove him wrong,” he said. “I came out the other side having so much respect for that man that he owns every commendation I ever got in the Marine Corps, and I got quite a few.
“Once I got there and I realized who I was, and what (my father) had done for me, what he really meant to me in my life, all I wanted to do was honor him. And I did that until the day he died.
“That's what the Marine Corps did for me.”
Teach the children
Danford spent much of his time after three decades in active duty in the Marines working with school children through sports, as an athletic director, football official and softball umpire.
“I have a great respect in my heart for the youngsters,” he said.
“In our society, we need to stress discipline and leadership and working together more and more, and respecting our fellow American. I see that as leaving us and we need to do something about it.”
Coates said he became a Marine Corps junior ROTC instructor the day after his retirement from active service.
“We need to take what we've learned and experienced and pass it on to the youngsters of our country now,” he said.
Coates said he feels a continuing obligation to instill “the core values of honor, courage and commitment” to young people.
“Teach them leadership traits and leadership principles — not just that are used in the Marine Corps, but what we should use in everyday life,” he said.
“Teach them to respect the flag, respect our fellow citizens, respect our veterans who went before us, who are alive today and served in harm's way. And to respect those who can't be with us here.”
Help vets in need
While all of the veterans had praise for the ongoing community support they and their comrades received, some said society must continue to emphasize caring for its returning warriors.
“First and foremost, we need to take care for the vets that are coming back — and I'm not just talking about the ones that have the obvious injuries,” Pontius said.
“We're getting some kids that are coming home who have seen some horrific stuff. And we need to make sure the systems are in place to help them.”
Pontius said as he returned from the Gulf War, he received a three-page pamphlet titled “Homecoming: A New Beginning.”
“This is what we got coming off the plane, and this was supposed to adapt us to civilian life after we'd spent time in the combat zone,” he said.
“I don't know what they are doing to help the young men and women now, but I do know they need all of the help and support and understanding of this nation.”
Villanueva noted that all of America's service men and women are volunteers.
“Those kids are taking four, five, six years out of their life to give to this country,” he said.
“I think the community has an absolute obligation to see that these kids are assimilated back into our community.”
Villanueva said he doesn't believe the G.I. Bill goes far enough in providing opportunities for returning veterans, nor does the Veterans Administration do enough to take care of veterans.
“A lot of the work being done for these young men and ladies coming out of the service is being done by volunteer organizations like U.S. Vets,” he said.
“That should be the responsibility of the whole society.”
Brotherhood
When asked what veterans' responsibilities are to America, both Villanueva's and Danford's eyes became clouded with tears, their voices choked with emotion.
“He's got the obligation to carry himself well, to never dishonor his service or his country,” Villanueva said.
Added Danford, “You've got to know who you are, hold your head high, and respect your fellow man.”
Veterans have a kinship between one another that those who haven't served in combat cannot fully understand, the men said.
“You develop a brotherhood,” Danford said. “It's really hard to explain to anyone who's never (done) it.”
Said Villanueva, “It's analogous to someone who graduated from high school but never went to college. It's a dimension that's not missing; it's just not there.”
From World War II to Iraq, war remains hell for those who have to fight it.
“Never forget that war is an ugly, ugly thing,” Pontius said. “There is no technology that fixes that guys have got to get down in the dirt.”
Carlyle said he feels America has paid him back for his service in war with “a good life.”
“The American public ought to understand that the combat veteran has been someplace they'll never go, and hopefully they'll never have to. And just appreciate what the hell he did.”
Ellie
Six Marines with six stories of life at war and coming home
Keith Matheny
The Desert Sun
They are fathers, brothers and husbands. Business leaders, volunteers and neighbors. Maybe even the umpire of the local softball game.
But the six men The Desert Sun recently gathered at the Palm Springs Air Museum are something else as well: veterans.
The valley residents — all Marines — served in World War II, Korea, Vietnam, the first Gulf War and the current war in Iraq.
In a candid conversation in advance of Veterans Day on Tuesday, they discussed how their service and homecoming were the same, and different.
They talked about society's responsibilities to veterans, and veterans' responsibilities to society.
Coming home
Ray Schum and Les Carlyle had a far different response upon coming home than their fellow Marine, Dave Danford, who served in Vietnam.
Schum, 87, of Cathedral City and Carlyle, 83, of Desert Hot Springs, both served in the Pacific during World War II.
“We came home as heroes, welcomed home,” Schum said.
Added Carlyle, “The country was totally unified, and coming home was a good experience.”
But Vietnam was a far more controversial war on the home front, and Danford, 70, of Palm Springs, said he endured some difficult moments upon his return.
“I have never in my life witnessed such disrespect of the American serviceman,” said Danford, who served 31 years in active duty in the Marines.
“I was spit on in San Francisco; I was called a baby-killer, all of those names, and so were my comrades. It was terrible.”
Danford said it made him disappointed in his fellow countrymen.
“Here a whole bunch of young men did what our commander-in-chief asked us to do, and now we're being disrespected when we come back home,” he said.
Unlike the celebration for the returning World War II veterans and the mixed reaction to returning Vietnam soldiers, those who served in Korea in the early 1950s came home to little reaction, said Quintin Villanueva, 76, of Palm Desert.
“We were known as The Forgotten War,” he said. “It was a United Nations police action. But it was really a war. Ask (those) who got killed over there, the families, and they'll tell you it was a war.
“We came home very quietly. There was no fanfare.”
Perhaps because of a national feeling of guilt for the reception received by some Vietnam veterans, returning soldiers from the 1990-91 Gulf War got the ticker-tape parade treatment, said Eric Pontius, 39, of Desert Hot Springs.
Pontius said his plane from the Middle East arrived in Maine to a waiting crowd of about 3,000 people in a hangar.
“And it was 3 a.m. on a weekday,” he said. “Kids and families, all there to greet the planes as they were coming back stateside. It was completely overwhelming.”
The positive feelings for returning veterans has continued with the Iraq War, said Mark Coates, a junior ROTC instructor in Desert Hot Springs who served three combat tours in Iraq.
“To this day, everywhere I go, at least a couple of times a week, people are stopping me and thanking me for my service,” he said.
A fast transition
After the welcome home, World War II veterans were expected to quickly transition back to civilian life, Schum recalled.
“I got out one day and was hired into a decent job the next day,” he said.
“All I'd really done is changed clothing. I was a personnel manager for an aerospace manufacturing firm, but I really felt like I was a sergeant-major of that plant, and I ran it on that basis.”
Carlyle said he used the G.I. Bill to go to college and earn a degree in engineering. He went on to a long career with aerospace manufacturer and defense contractor McDonnell Douglas.
Carlyle credited the lessons he learned in the Marine Corps for his success later in life.
“When I went in, I was 17 years old, coming from a small town in New Jersey,” he said.
“I was pretty naive. The self-confidence and awareness I got, finding out who I was, that I could handle a tough situation, is something you just don't get any other way.”
Villanueva expressed a similar view.
“I learned so much in the Marine Corps about core values that carried through my entire life up to today.”
Pontius said some were dismissive after the first Gulf War.
After returning from the Middle East, Pontius attended the University of California at Berkeley. He stood up in a class and corrected a professor that he said called the Gulf War “the picnic in the desert.”
“Tens of thousands of Iraqi citizens would disagree,” Pontius said. “Kuwaiti citizens would disagree. Saudi citizens. American families who lost loved ones — they would all not say that that was a picnic.”
Father, son connect
Pontius' experience as a veteran allowed him to reconnect with his father, he said.
“I dropped out of college; I was getting bad grades; I was going in all the wrong directions,” he said.
“I joined the Marine Corps out of contempt, basically. I told my parents, ‘I'll show you; I'll join the Marine Corps.'
“My mom started crying. My dad had the newspaper up, and he didn't even take the paper down, and from behind the paper, he said, ‘Good; maybe it will make a man out of you.'”
Thinking his parents would attempt to talk him out of joining, when they didn't, Pontius said he felt obligated to follow through on his threat.
“I stuck out four years of the Marine Corps to prove him wrong,” he said. “I came out the other side having so much respect for that man that he owns every commendation I ever got in the Marine Corps, and I got quite a few.
“Once I got there and I realized who I was, and what (my father) had done for me, what he really meant to me in my life, all I wanted to do was honor him. And I did that until the day he died.
“That's what the Marine Corps did for me.”
Teach the children
Danford spent much of his time after three decades in active duty in the Marines working with school children through sports, as an athletic director, football official and softball umpire.
“I have a great respect in my heart for the youngsters,” he said.
“In our society, we need to stress discipline and leadership and working together more and more, and respecting our fellow American. I see that as leaving us and we need to do something about it.”
Coates said he became a Marine Corps junior ROTC instructor the day after his retirement from active service.
“We need to take what we've learned and experienced and pass it on to the youngsters of our country now,” he said.
Coates said he feels a continuing obligation to instill “the core values of honor, courage and commitment” to young people.
“Teach them leadership traits and leadership principles — not just that are used in the Marine Corps, but what we should use in everyday life,” he said.
“Teach them to respect the flag, respect our fellow citizens, respect our veterans who went before us, who are alive today and served in harm's way. And to respect those who can't be with us here.”
Help vets in need
While all of the veterans had praise for the ongoing community support they and their comrades received, some said society must continue to emphasize caring for its returning warriors.
“First and foremost, we need to take care for the vets that are coming back — and I'm not just talking about the ones that have the obvious injuries,” Pontius said.
“We're getting some kids that are coming home who have seen some horrific stuff. And we need to make sure the systems are in place to help them.”
Pontius said as he returned from the Gulf War, he received a three-page pamphlet titled “Homecoming: A New Beginning.”
“This is what we got coming off the plane, and this was supposed to adapt us to civilian life after we'd spent time in the combat zone,” he said.
“I don't know what they are doing to help the young men and women now, but I do know they need all of the help and support and understanding of this nation.”
Villanueva noted that all of America's service men and women are volunteers.
“Those kids are taking four, five, six years out of their life to give to this country,” he said.
“I think the community has an absolute obligation to see that these kids are assimilated back into our community.”
Villanueva said he doesn't believe the G.I. Bill goes far enough in providing opportunities for returning veterans, nor does the Veterans Administration do enough to take care of veterans.
“A lot of the work being done for these young men and ladies coming out of the service is being done by volunteer organizations like U.S. Vets,” he said.
“That should be the responsibility of the whole society.”
Brotherhood
When asked what veterans' responsibilities are to America, both Villanueva's and Danford's eyes became clouded with tears, their voices choked with emotion.
“He's got the obligation to carry himself well, to never dishonor his service or his country,” Villanueva said.
Added Danford, “You've got to know who you are, hold your head high, and respect your fellow man.”
Veterans have a kinship between one another that those who haven't served in combat cannot fully understand, the men said.
“You develop a brotherhood,” Danford said. “It's really hard to explain to anyone who's never (done) it.”
Said Villanueva, “It's analogous to someone who graduated from high school but never went to college. It's a dimension that's not missing; it's just not there.”
From World War II to Iraq, war remains hell for those who have to fight it.
“Never forget that war is an ugly, ugly thing,” Pontius said. “There is no technology that fixes that guys have got to get down in the dirt.”
Carlyle said he feels America has paid him back for his service in war with “a good life.”
“The American public ought to understand that the combat veteran has been someplace they'll never go, and hopefully they'll never have to. And just appreciate what the hell he did.”
Ellie