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Assaultdog0351
11-04-08, 12:17 PM
The majority of the marines in my company wear riggers belts instead of the traditional MCMAP belts. We were told its unauthorized and out of regulation. this is what i've found from MCO P1020.34G para. 3002(see below). whick leeds me to beleive as long as its worn correct the lengths are correct and the color and type of type buckle are flat black d-type with locking bar, a riggers belt in fact IS authorized. Does anyone know of any other MCMAP belt regulations??:usmc:


6. Martial Arts Utility Belt. The 1-3/4 inch wide nylon utility belt having
black D-type buckle with locking bar will be worn by all martial arts
qualified Marines with the utility uniform. The tip end of the utility belt will pass through the buckle, feeding back around the locking bar to the
wearerís left, with the belt-end extending 4 to 8 inches beyond the buckle.
The buckle will be kept subdued in flat black finish. The buckle will be
worn with the locking bar cinched tightly into the buckle.
a. Qualified Marines will wear only the single color of utility belt with
or without instructor stripes appropriate to their martial arts proficiency,
per the current edition of MCO 1500.54. Martial arts utility belts are not
authorized for wear with civilian attire.
b. Personnel designated as close combat instructors or instructortrainers
will wear the appropriate identifying stripes on their belts.
Instructor stripes will be 1/2-inch tan or red stripes, as appropriate, sewn
on perpendicular to the length of the belt in thread that matches the color
of the stripe. First stripe will be placed 2 inches from the belt-end
holding the buckle, and each subsequent stripe placed 1/4 inch intervals from
the previous stripe.

Echo_Four_Bravo
11-04-08, 01:07 PM
Wow, I would have thought the fight over wearing riggers belts would have ended when they martial arts belts came onto the scene. I understood the problem when we had to wear the web belt with utilities, but not so much now.

Either way, if the local command says it isn't authorized they win in the end. Good luck though.

Assaultdog0351
11-04-08, 09:16 PM
well one of the biggest problems is that the standard martial arts belt is pretty cheap and comes undone or shifts around even under regular wear not to mention during PT or while training/deployed so the riggers belts have thicker nylon and heavy duty buckles and velcro to fasten the loose end. Most of the hassle come from marines that have been dodging the fleet for the past few and have a strictly garrison mindset, however slowly but surely they are seeing the benefits of superior gear

Echo_Four_Bravo
11-04-08, 09:32 PM
Sounds like the same fight we used to have. I hope you find a way through the whole thing, our command finally saying they wouldn't object to riggers belts in the field was one of the best things they ever did.

Assaultdog0351
11-04-08, 09:39 PM
well for now i'm going to get a can of flat black spray paint so the buckle is in regs

Accord
11-05-08, 12:33 AM
well one of the biggest problems is that the standard martial arts belt is pretty cheap and comes undone or shifts around even under regular wear not to mention during PT or while training/deployed so the riggers belts have thicker nylon and heavy duty buckles and velcro to fasten the loose end. Most of the hassle come from marines that have been dodging the fleet for the past few and have a strictly garrison mindset, however slowly but surely they are seeing the benefits of superior gear

Uniform regs don't exist on deployment when you leave the wire, at least where I was. Garrison nazi's complaining about Marines wearing riggers belts... in Afghanistan I don't think I even bloused my boots for 5 solid months and everyone wore tan riggers belts, even our plt sgt who is a black belt instructor. I'm so happy that my chain of command only cares about war fighting and not the stupid stuff Marines in other units have to deal with.

Sgt Leprechaun
11-05-08, 03:38 PM
If it's in regs, it's in regs, and you can wear it. HOWEVER, if the local command has a written policy or SOP that says you can't, then that will hold the 'higher' authority. If it's just one of those 'you can't because.....' orders, it might be someone who is just mis-informed, or trying to set their own policy for whatever reason.

An easy way to find out?

Check with your Plt Sergeant or Company Gunny. If you are really feeling froggy try the 1stSgt.

SlingerDun
11-05-08, 06:21 PM
I once got creative and attached an unassuming D- to the ALICE and another to a field radio but once put to use they did not go undetected long...

2nd Lt: What are those doing on your pack and radio?

Slinger: Carabiners sir, for sliding ropes and securing stuff.

2nd Lt: I know what they arehttp://www.leatherneck.com/forums/images/icons/icon6.gif why are they there?

Slinger: Full canteens, i don't have to carry them on my hips

2nd Lt: Thats why you were issued an H-harness and web gear, lose the outward bound clips

--->Dave

Sgt Leprechaun
11-06-08, 07:40 AM
LOL. Field Marines make s**t WORK for them, not what looks pretty. I've seen and used some seriously non reg stuff on float (back when they actually DID such things LOL) that would never fly, even in the field at Lejeune.

But...Lt's will be Lt's..... :)

Mad Russian
07-16-09, 02:17 PM
Have been doing research on this question,
and that what I stumbble on:
MARADMIN 143/01
paragraph 3 states :

"THE GREEN RIGGERS BELT IS NOW PART OF THE MARTIAL ARTS BELT
SYSTEM, AND WILL BE WORN AS A THIRD LEVEL QUALIFYING BELT. THE
MARTIAL ARTS BELT WILL BECOME THE REQUIRED BELT FOR THE
UTILITY UNIFORM ONCE A MARINE MEETS THE MINIMUM
QUALIFICATIONS. THE RECRUIT TRAINING DEPOTS BEGAN TRAINING
RECRUITS IN THE MARTIAL ARTS PROGRAM DURING JAN 01."

That should be self explanatory, considering riggers bels comming in all colors (MCMAP)

Achped
07-16-09, 04:22 PM
Most of the hassle come from marines that have been dodging the fleet for the past few and have a strictly garrison mindset


http://www.pe.com/imagesdaily/2007/12-18/drill18merc_1_400.jpg

Petz
07-16-09, 04:50 PM
Uniform regs don't exist on deployment when you leave the wire, at least where I was. Garrison nazi's complaining about Marines wearing riggers belts... in Afghanistan I don't think I even bloused my boots for 5 solid months and everyone wore tan riggers belts, even our plt sgt who is a black belt instructor. I'm so happy that my chain of command only cares about war fighting and not the stupid stuff Marines in other units have to deal with.

I'm shocked that you make this seem as though it wasn't for a purpose...

do you think the enemy doesn't know what the belt system means? you think if they captured someone that they would let the guy with the black belt live and possibly destroy them in hand to hand?

sometimes you're right, garrison regs shouldn't exist in combat and you should use your heads when it comes to your qualifications... it's the same reason officers wear black rank... they don't want their head to explode.

Petz
07-16-09, 04:55 PM
Have been doing research on this question,
and that what I stumbble on:
MARADMIN 143/01
paragraph 3 states :

"THE GREEN RIGGERS BELT IS NOW PART OF THE MARTIAL ARTS BELT
SYSTEM, AND WILL BE WORN AS A THIRD LEVEL QUALIFYING BELT. THE
MARTIAL ARTS BELT WILL BECOME THE REQUIRED BELT FOR THE
UTILITY UNIFORM ONCE A MARINE MEETS THE MINIMUM
QUALIFICATIONS. THE RECRUIT TRAINING DEPOTS BEGAN TRAINING
RECRUITS IN THE MARTIAL ARTS PROGRAM DURING JAN 01."

That should be self explanatory, considering riggers bels comming in all colors (MCMAP)


consider the date of your MARADMIN... back then they authorized riggers belts because they didn't have a huge supply of the MCMAP belts... in about '03 - '04 you'll find one that says riggers belts are not authorized MCMAP belts...

but I see nothing wrong with a riggers belt used while deployed or in the field... many times the command will never see the riggers belt.

if you know you have an inspection then have your MCMAP belt with you.

I don't see the reason for all this complaining... I have never had a problem with my MCMAP belts... maybe you should tighten it up so it doesn't loosen up on you... it stays tight only if the locking bar has pressure on it.

Mad Russian
07-16-09, 07:02 PM
consider the date of your MARADMIN... back then they authorized riggers belts because they didn't have a huge supply of the MCMAP belts... in about '03 - '04 you'll find one that says riggers belts are not authorized MCMAP belts...



it's pretty good point of view...
However... Perhaps my research have not proved me otherwise. If you be so kind to enlight me with reference to anything that I can present to my fellow Marines, that would be greately appreciatefull,
"...about '03-'04 ..." does not really work as a reference in this case.

Mad Russian
07-16-09, 07:06 PM
.

Donut Brigade
07-17-09, 02:31 AM
Talked to our squadron 1st Sgt few weeks ago, saw him wear a TAG brown riggers belt, and I asked very politely "1st Sgt, many times Marines corrected me for wearing a riggers belt (not the issued "riggers" belt) and told me it's unauthorized but I see many Marines, mostly higher rank, wearing them. What's the deal?"

He said technically it's OK, as long as they are in proper color and don't look like trash, and he agreed that real riggers belts are a much better alternative, but he also agreed that an issued belt should be worn for inspections.

I know it's not the order and at least one 1st Sgt's opinion...so in the end it just depends on your command and how lenient they are with certain regs.

Since then I got attached to MCAS Miramar, and I'm yet to see anyone wear anything other than an issued belt, so that's what I wear here.

Pete0331
07-17-09, 02:49 AM
Yet another piece of gear for Marines to waste their money on.
80% of the Marines who have them don't need them.
I have one of the hefty ones from TAG.
They are heavy compared to the bull crap issued ones.
The issued ones suck.

Heres a little tip for those with the issued belt:
Buy some velcro.
Both hook and loop sides.
Attach the hook side velcro to the end of the belt.
Attach the loop side of the the velcro to the place on the belt where the end meets.
If you do it correctly none of the velcro will show and neither will the stitching.
You don't cut the end of the belt.
You fold it over until it is the proper length.

If it were up to me, suspenders would be authorized as well.

Donut Brigade
07-17-09, 04:23 AM
But what if I want to look tacticool in my air-conditioned shop with 3 Sailors in charge?

Pete0331
07-17-09, 05:07 AM
But what if I want to look tacticool in my air-conditioned shop with 3 Sailors in charge?

Go to jump school. :marine:

Caesar Augustus
09-13-09, 06:45 AM
Uniform regs don't exist on deployment when you leave the wire, at least where I was. Garrison nazi's complaining about Marines wearing riggers belts... in Afghanistan I don't think I even bloused my boots for 5 solid months and everyone wore tan riggers belts, even our plt sgt who is a black belt instructor. I'm so happy that my chain of command only cares about war fighting and not the stupid stuff Marines in other units have to deal with.

**** we couldn't wear our beanies because not every Marine was wearing them. We also emptied all our sandbags out because some were green and some were tan. We couldn't have our polypro tops come up from under our cammies to cover our necks, weren't supposed to wear brown under armor, you damn sure better have your boots bloused and heaven forbid you don't have ear pro, eye pro, and throat pro when you walk out of the **** house you're running patrols out of when you need to ****.

2cnd MarDiv SUCKED when it came to all their garrison bs rules.

Assaultdog0351
11-20-09, 03:09 AM
2/2 is full of heros! you guys just relieved us over here in afghanistan and I saw lots of motivated misguidance... kill!

Twitchell
11-29-09, 04:01 PM
http://www.pe.com/imagesdaily/2007/12-18/drill18merc_1_400.jpg
:thumbup:
HEY.... I think that Fsgt. in the middle was one of my DI's if I'm not mistaken! Ssgt. Andrade in 1999.

Marine1955
11-30-09, 09:20 AM
I know this sounds stupid to some of you ,but what the frack are you talking about belts ?? when I went in they didn't have belts like this, so can someone show me what it is please.

Twitchell
11-30-09, 11:40 AM
It is the MCMAP (Marine Corps Martial Arts Program), belt. You take it in boot camp and have to qualify for it, "I think", and it is issued to you to be worn with your camies. Basically like the rifle marksmanship badge, but with hand to hand combat! Throughout your time in you have different opportunities to improve and move up in belts.

That's about all I know about it. They still did LINE training when I was in which was basically the same thing, but not as in depth, and they didn't give you belts for it!



http://www.okinawa.usmc.mil/public%20affairs%20Info/Images%20Complete/HighResImages/061020-mcmap.jpg

TheLoeppster
11-30-09, 12:46 PM
who gives a **** about the pettyness of wearing a riggers belt??? Only the admin poague bia's that dont ever get out to the field or they would not be so objective and against wearing it.

I have both types and I wear one in the field and the other in Garrison. The riggers belt is a lot stronger & made of quality which is extremely beneficial in "combat" and isnt that our middle name???

Worry about our brothers & sisters coming home alive and getting the best rainning ever and not about polticial BS about the right belt.

Zebra29er
11-30-09, 01:39 PM
chit the only belt I need now days , is the one to hold up my Colt 1911 IWB :bunny:

Petz
12-01-09, 12:59 AM
who gives a **** about the pettyness of wearing a riggers belt??? Only the admin poague bia's that dont ever get out to the field or they would not be so objective and against wearing it.

I have both types and I wear one in the field and the other in Garrison. The riggers belt is a lot stronger & made of quality which is extremely beneficial in "combat" and isnt that our middle name???

Worry about our brothers & sisters coming home alive and getting the best rainning ever and not about polticial BS about the right belt.

Detroit City huh? where's about you live brother?

BlknGld0311
12-03-09, 08:14 PM
All this talk of garrison and field crap makes me so ungrateful to be in Quantico. After four years of hatred for the field in Lejeune and wishing I never picked up the saw, my pride was completely re-established when I came to the "Crossroads of the Marine Corps" 75% of the Marines that I work with remember the field as a short painful time in mct.

I made up a quote and posted it on my desk (yeah, I'm living a non-grunts life now)...it says:

"Today is the worst day of your life...So is tommorrow. Welcome to the Infantry."

And yes, I also was told not to wear a riggers belt..by an 01 SSgt that claims he is "Combat Admin"

Sgt Leprechaun
12-03-09, 08:48 PM
AAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!!!!

That is freakin great, bro. I feel your pain. Out of my entire time in the Corps, the only time I spent around the flagpole was 18 months at HQMC. I was in the fleet the rest of my 12 years on active duty.

I'm gonna USE that quote by golly.

And tell 'combat admin' to pound sand.

BlknGld0311
12-04-09, 10:34 AM
Glad you liked the quote. Most of my bosses that came from the infantry loved it.

As far as the SSgt, he's a Black Belt instructor that is also admin.
Former MSG also, but ZERO combat deployments...not even a skate deployment sitting in Camp Ramadi. Nothing like that...yet he still pulls the Combat Admin crap, and has quotes about war in his email at the end.

But I guess we're straying away from the topic! I'll end it at that. PM me if you wanna know anything else.

Sgt Leprechaun
12-07-09, 06:02 PM
No worries! Thanks for the info. Much appreciated.

Vandrel
12-08-09, 10:14 AM
It is the MCMAP (Marine Corps Martial Arts Program), belt.


Throughout your time in you have different opportunities to improve and move up in belts.



That is "IF" your are lucky enough to have a job that allows you time. Personally I think the MCMAP stuff is garbage ever since it came out in 2001. The "instructors" at your unit are your buddy to your left and right that have been to the instructor course.

The belts are nothing more then a check box on your record. Saddly, they just became a big deal for promotions, more so SNCO and above. The 08 SSgt selection board notes listed "Green belt instructor" as one of the key things they were looking for, that's great and dandy for those who don't have a deploying MOS and sit around in the rear all day with nothing to do.

The MCMAP program is such a shame that units have started attempting to crunch in mock courses to get everyone up to a certain belt level before "x" amount of days or "xxxxx" date deadline. This is something that stems down from MEF levels. The shame of it is that on the unit level they don't give a rats ass, just make sure it's complete before the deadline. Because of that attitude towards the program I've seen what should technically be a 2 weeks intructional course for a belt turn into a 2 day goat rope event of just going through some motions to get a signature on the paper. It isn't the instructor's fault, it's the Marine Corps and the unit's fault.

Making things such as annual training a prereq for promotion is wonderful because there is time allocated for such things, but when it starts to stem to down things that are not as strictly regulated such as MCMAP then you end up seeing pen-whipped certificates in the masses just to get them in before the physical year so "no one's name is on the no-go list and effects the unit stats".


Ending my rant.

Don't get me wrong on the actual fundamentals of MCMAP, it's not bad and it works if it's applied and the Marine actually has time allocated to sustain the training so they don't forget it.

I wore a tan belt for 7 years proudly, the same one too. Didn't actually have allocated time to advance until 6 months before my EAS at which time it became pointless other then to have the "check in the box" effect for the stats because I was in the rear at the time.