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Achped
09-18-08, 01:38 AM
I understand a standard is a standard. Marines don't compromise, and if you are out of the standard you are unsat.

However, is there any chance that the body fat percentage standard is just a little...hmm...unreasonable?

Case in point.

A devil dog I work with is a PFC, his Date of Rank is January 1st 2008. He should have been a Lance a while ago, but was put on BCP and was non-rec'd for 6 months.

His re-evaluation just came up, 19% body fat. 18% maximum allowed. non-rec'd again for 6 months. Meaning he will be a PFC for a full 15 months.

Again, I understand a standard is a standard.

But this Marine doesn't look fat. He doesn't look unproportional out of uniform, and the kicker? He runs a 270 PFT! He's got about 18 pullups, a 21 minute run, and 100 crunches.

I'm trying to help this guy out, it's absolutely ridiculous that they've got him out there PTing with the fat bodies. If he can't get below 19% again, he will have been a PFC for 21 months, as well as had a tour in Iraq under his belt!

Do any of you know of any "loopholes" (For lack of a better word. I remember reading somewhere that a commander may let someone off BCP if he thinks the Marine looks presentable in uniform)

Mikewebe
09-18-08, 01:50 AM
I don't know about loopholes but his performance should be enough. I failed 2 years ago in the guard if you can believe that when I was was competing in powerlifting, while our fat assed medics and CO couldn't pass the pft. Its BS and as stated on another thread,I have seen some big boys running around. 1% ain't but a few hours in the sauna, he either needs to just cut it or appeal to legal. And 15 is petty bs. I do agree with you about the standard but we aren't all built the same. What if he was 6'5 and weighed 140. No bueno to me but he probably wouldn't get sweated for s**t. So he can probably work something. Request Mast or something.

hawks
09-18-08, 01:50 AM
yah, lose some fat is a sweet loophole. Quit looking for loopholes, and just lose some fat, its not that hard

Mikewebe
09-18-08, 01:57 AM
With a 270 pft he shouldn't suffer the same as those who have 210's or whatever number. I'm 38 years old now, not the same as I was when I was 18. 1% can be gone easy but come on a PFC for 15 months with a 270 ? BS!

Achped
09-18-08, 02:41 AM
yah, lose some fat is a sweet loophole. Quit looking for loopholes, and just lose some fat, its not that hard

I bet you money he spends more time in the gym than you do.

thewookie
09-18-08, 06:04 AM
I bet you money he spends more time in the gym than you do.

Spending time in the gym is one thing - doing something about it is another.

I go to the gym 6 or 7 days a week, I'm about to go right now,,, and more then likely I'll see the same muscle-heads standing around the water cooler "catching a break in between rep's". - yeah right.

I feel for the guy but if you told me you'd pay me a little more, give me a little more respect and responsibility, then I'd lose that 1% rickety split.

I wrestled in HS so I know how tough it can be to lose those last few pounds, but it's doable.

- Tell him to get off the weights and to only do cardio.
- Tell him to workout before EVERY meal because it gets your metabolism going before you eat and that definitely helps you burn calories.
- Tell him to stop sneaking snacks and cheating - stick to the plan.
- Tell him to take some spin classes and some high speed aerobics classes -- you want to talk about azz kicking, spin is azz kicking.

A lot of people in the weight loss, or body fat loss game are not as disciplined as they make themselves out to be. Back in my day I knew a Marine that swore he was doing all he could to lose weight until one day I caught him sneaking some bacon at chow.

There is no excuse for something like this if you ask me, it's something he can control - no matter how much he swears he's doing all he can - he isn't.

Cut and dry.

Losing weight is like doing simple math, eat less or burn more then you take in -- it's not some Jenny Craig secret.

sparkie
09-18-08, 06:09 AM
My son in law had the same issue,1%. I told him NO more starches. Breads, potatoes,crackers,rice, nothing. He retested in a week and was fine.
Like what was said, we are all different, I knew a Capt. built like a whisky barrel, but strong and fast. He was amazing.

yellowwing
09-18-08, 07:06 AM
The only loophole is presenting a good argument to the 1st Sgt. And you better have your **** together in one sock. He's got about 100 other silly ass LCpls to tend to. So in your 8 seconds, have it together.

SupChf
09-18-08, 07:34 AM
A great exercise is PUSH-AWAY'S....push away from the table. Too many Marines believe that if they have a good workout and sweat a lot, they can eat until they are bursting at the seams...

Send him over to the MCCS Gym and get him hooked up with a nutritionist. I've seen this work for many Marines that I have worked with. It works and it's free.

Gunz out ~

MotherGoose
09-18-08, 07:45 AM
Yeah I agree sometimes the bodyfat standard doesn't seem to be universally "fair." He probably needs to examine his diet (i.e carbs... beer...) And do neck exercises, I used to see guys doing neck exercises so that they could gain an inch or so in the neck for the fat body measurement.

ZSKI
09-18-08, 10:23 AM
i think the 18% should apply only to those who don't run a first class. Come on that guy is fighting fit and that skinny **** who can't do ten pull ups is ok?

OB MSG
09-18-08, 10:42 AM
Achped,

Check the regs again. When I got out a few years ago it said that if you could get a 1st class PFT score then you were allowed more body fat, I think it was 22% or something like that. If this Devil Dog is at the 270 level he should have no trouble.

In case I am wrong, have him follow Wookie's advice and lay off the heavyweights and go for the Cardio to bring his weight down.

maverickmarine
09-18-08, 10:44 AM
yeah, it seems like since he appearance is good and his PFT is squared away that there shouldn't be an issue. I had to get body fat tested everytime because my weight didn't meet standards but that was due to hitting the weights. However, for me the body fat testing always came back good to go so never had any issue when it came to that. It was just a pain to know that I would have to go have that done everytime rather than just be good to go at weigh in.

OB MSG
09-18-08, 10:52 AM
Achped,

Check MCO 6100.10B W/CH 1 WEIGHT CONTROL AND MILITARY APPEARANCE

This might be a little dated so look for a newer version before treating this as gospel.

Achped
09-18-08, 11:47 AM
Thats what I told him at first too, I was like wtf, tell MSgt that you have a 1st class PFT. But the new MCO is that males must have 18% body fat from 17-26 years old. No exceptions.

OB MSG
09-18-08, 11:51 AM
Well, then he must go the way of the Wookie. Tell him to stay away from the heavy weight lifting, go with more cardio and ease back on the portions.

Achped
09-18-08, 12:02 PM
It doesn't matter though, he's on BCP/non rec'd for 6 months even if he drops to 10% body fat. I'll make sure he loses it while we're in Iraq.

OB MSG
09-18-08, 12:12 PM
Get him in shape, get him promoted, then pack him full of knowledge and stick his @$$ on a Board. Hell, if you help him get promoted, then stick yourself on a board and get promoted together.

Lead from the front, Marine! ( I know you trying to already and it looks good!)

HurricaneRJ
09-18-08, 03:06 PM
Life just took a turn for the worst.:mad:

Now I'm on PCP now, PT twice a day and once on Saturday.
I ran a 255 on my PFT. I did better than most who are in standards, and I don't even look fat. Got muscle and thats it.

Thank you General Conway

Achped
09-18-08, 04:37 PM
See what I mean?

HurricaneRJ
09-18-08, 04:51 PM
I'm ****ed as hell, one of the top PT'ers in my ****ing platoon and I'm 20% body fat, and since my ******* required weight, is unrealistic for my size, I have to PT. About to start **** bagging now.

Achped
09-18-08, 04:57 PM
Thats how my DEVIL DOG (Sorry Hawks, does that bug you? Devil dog!) feels. He's like whats the point? assuming he stays within limits, he won't rate a cutting score to pick up corporal until he's been in 2 and a half years, 29 freaking months he will have been a non-rate, even as an outstanding Marine with an MOS that's cutting score is usually below 1500.

thewookie
09-18-08, 05:04 PM
You new guys are spoiled if you think waiting 29 months TIS to pick up Corporal is a long time.

Quinbo
09-18-08, 05:05 PM
OK here is the deal. Your body fat percentage is only looked at if your weight exceeds the maximum for your height. Thus if you are overweight by MC standards then an exception can be made if your body fat percentage is at or below 18% . If a Marine is fat in both body weight and body fat percentage then by golly that Marine is fat.

HurricaneRJ
09-18-08, 05:05 PM
Sgt has a point. Back in the old days. A 4 year Lance was the norm back then, we got guys picking up Cpl in 2 years. Not to mention Dominick pick it up in less than a year.

Achped
09-18-08, 05:06 PM
I will have it in 15 months TIS

thewookie
09-18-08, 05:10 PM
I will have it in 15 months TIS

And, when and if that happens you'll be a boot NCO. Better then being just a boot, but that is way to fast as far as I am concerned.


I think 15 months TIS to pick up Corporal is comedy. But, I guess if that is how your MOS promotes then it is what it is.

Achped
09-18-08, 05:14 PM
Thats just how it is with my MOS. Do 3 MCIs, 1st class PFT/Expert on the range and 4.5 pros and cons pretty much guarantee it.

Quinbo
09-18-08, 06:02 PM
That is good news that speedy promotions are out there now for our young warriors. Hopefully these high speed promotees will be able to fill the shoes.

sparkie
09-18-08, 06:13 PM
I had speed for promotions, but they needed warm bodies back then. { There were a lot of cold ones laying around}. Made Sgt. in 4. But, let me say,,,,, As Sgt, I had men to command, and I answered to the C.O. I didn't fill shoes, I made em. Whats going on now? Gov got too much money? NCO's ARE the Marines.

Quinbo
09-18-08, 06:25 PM
Long time ago I was par for the course. I made PFC on 1 Dec 1985, Lcpl 2 Dec 1985, Cpl 1 Oct 1988 and Sgt 1 Sept 1992 and wore Sgt till Feb 1998. Hope I never see a Marine speck 4

thewookie
09-18-08, 06:34 PM
I had to do some checking myself -

PFC - August 1st 1991
LCpl - April 1st 1992
CPL - June 1st 1993 - had the promotion on the 2nd but a bad judgement call cost me that.
Sgt - March 1st 1996

For me it was 29 months TIS to pick-up CPL.

Quinbo
09-18-08, 06:40 PM
I think this thread has gone way off track. We were originally discussing whether a fatbody could find a loophole to get promoted. I'm thinking they should be looking for loopholes to stay in the Corps.

Achped
09-18-08, 08:31 PM
My question is, if the "fat body" doesn't look bad in uniform, and can do a PFT almost perfectly...why shouldn't he be promoted?

LanceCriminal
09-18-08, 08:37 PM
My question is, if the "fat body" doesn't look bad in uniform, and can do a PFT almost perfectly...why shouldn't he be promoted?


That is a load of bull****! We have a LCpl in my unit who (I am disgraced to say this) Has failed 3 PFTs in a row and UNQed on the range twice.:sick: He weighes like 240 pounds and is only about 5'9....and they still havent kicked him out yet. Your PFC should have gotten promoted and it is bull that he hasn't. I am on a wrestling team out here and honestly if it is only a few pounds he needs to lose he can do our workout for two weeks and just not drink any water the day he has to weigh in and I can promise you he will be within his weight standard.

UsmcMotorT
09-18-08, 08:43 PM
I think the body fat standards are tying in with the new appearance standard. But you say he looks good to go so I'm not sure.

I would always fail the height and weight standard but I would make the BF standard plus I get a high first class.

I was the BCP coordinator and he can get extended after the first 6 months on the BCP if he has shown improvement, but after that, if he doesn't make standards then he should get separated.

LanceCriminal
09-18-08, 08:50 PM
I think the body fat standards are tying in with the new appearance standard. But you say he looks good to go so I'm not sure.

I would always fail the height and weight standard but I would make the BF standard plus I get a high first class.

I was the BCP coordinator and he can get extended after the first 6 months on the BCP if he has shown improvement, but after that, if he doesn't make standards then he should get separated.

With the new standards they have 120 days before they even get put on the BCP program. It is up to the unit to get them down to weight and if they are not in those 120 days they get BCP. But if the Marine is not trying (as is the case with my LCpl) then having the unit get him down to weight is not going to help any. And personally it is my belief that if you are a Marine you should be a Marine in all aspects. Even if he DOES get into weight standards he still cant shoot. I mean even a pizza box is ok, UNQing with a score in the low 100's is rediculous.

LanceCriminal
09-18-08, 08:52 PM
Even so...I dont like the new body fat standard because of this problem he is having with this PFC. I know a couple of Marine in BCP who have SIX PACKS and are out of their weight range so they got put on BCP. They need to find a new way of determining body fat instead of taping. It doesnt always work out right.

Mikewebe
09-18-08, 09:17 PM
Lance Criminal has it on the head. Why would I want to compete anymore against other branches or countries if I was a Fricken fatbody Cpl. for 2 4 6 8 lbs. and 1-3 percent over

SGT VAS
09-19-08, 06:59 AM
I had speed for promotions, but they needed warm bodies back then. { There were a lot of cold ones laying around}. Made Sgt. in 4. But, let me say,,,,, As Sgt, I had men to command, and I answered to the C.O. I didn't fill shoes, I made em. Whats going on now? Gov got too much money? NCO's ARE the Marines.

Were you also one of those poor guys in boot camp coming out as a PVT while everyone else graduated with their mosquito wings?:) I loved watching those tables turn when I picked up Sergeant and those fuks were still Lances.:marine:

sparkie
09-19-08, 07:11 AM
Only 1 came out promoted in those days, and it wasn't me. Only 1 got the Blues. There was no promotions for doing this or that before even going in. I don't know what thats about.
As far as fatbodies in those days, once caught, they didn't stay fat very long.