Reserve or Active Duty Recon?

[PittsMom]

My son is planing on joining the Marines and is going to sign a Reconnaissance contract. What are the pros/cons of recon active duty versus reserve?
Thanks!

[mattlw201]

My son is planing on joining the Marines and is going to sign a Reconnaissance contract. What are the pros/cons of recon active duty versus reserve?
Thanks!

Im not the most qualified to answer this question but he has to make it through the Recon indoc and the BRC (Basic Reconnaissance Course) after boot camp, which is supposedly one of the hardest military schools to go through. I also asked my recruiter if I can get a spot guaranted for the indoc on my contract when I enlisted and he said there was no such guarantees possible. You have to make it through boot camp and SOI then you volunteer for the indoc if you have a really high pft. Seeing that I am still a poolee I am just going off of what my recruiter said. Dont take this information to heart unless a Marine backs me up.

[Mikewebe]

As far as I know we do not offer a recon contract. first he has to be eligible by test scores and be free of any problems physical or otherwise.

Then he needs to graduate boot and SOI. Recon will screen all of those eligible for them in SOI. I was made to take the indoc. As were everyone else in my class that were screened.

As far as active or reserve, the only real difference is going to be how much time he actually spends doing the job. 40+ hours a week or 40 hours a month.

[PittsMom]

He's already taken the ASVAB and qualifies for the job.
I was wondering if he signs reserve would he be living at home or on a base?
And also, does a reserve contract loose the GI bill?

Thank you both so much.

[Mikewebe]

If he goes reserve he will live at home after schooling. But depending on where you live there may not be a recon unit around. So unless your close to Pendleton or Lejeune, I am not sure what is still around as far as recon units for the reserve

[mattlw201]

He's already taken the ASVAB and qualifies for the job.
I was wondering if he signs reserve would he be living at home or on a base?
And also, does a reserve contract loose the GI bill?

Thank you both so much.

He still has to get through the one of the toughest schools in the military before he becomes recon.

Marine Recon INDOC1st Force Recon's current "indoc" or RIP is a 48 hr. evolution. Previously, in order to even get invited to attend the indoctrination course, you must have between 3-4 years of experience in the field and should be scoring at least 285 on the Marine Corp PFT: As with any Special Operation units, you must be a stellar Marine with a near flawless record. Recently, the new program mentioned above will allow highly motivated new recruits a chance to attend RIP. As long as they are physically above average and are able to reach the scores above (275 enlisted – 285 officer) they can attend after bootcamp. Below scores represent a perfect 300 on the USMC PFT:



3 mile run (18:00min 100pts)
20 pullups (dead hang) 100pts
80 situps/2min. 100pts.You will be required to perform two obstacle courses in under 2:00 each time, swim 500 meters in full cammies in 17:00, and other fun water activities. 10 mile ruck with 50lbs pack in under 2 hours is also graded.

It helps to prepare months in advance with swimming at least 4-5 times a week. Wear cammies and fins at least once a week too. Minimum swim practice time should be an hour daily.

You will also be required to perform what is called a Level Test which is:



Max Push ups 2min.
Max Sit ups 2min.
Max Pull ups 2min.
Max Flutter Kicks 2min.
Max 8 Count pushups in 2:00
Max scissors in 2:00 Your calisthenics workouts should consist of the above exercises performed every other day for a total of 3-4 times per week. The day of PT rest will help your muscles recover and be able to gain more reps in two minutes. Also practice perfect form but do each of the exercises as fast as you can. Speed and endurance is your goal.

Running is also a major part of INDOC. You should run at least 4-5 times per week and perform a rucksack run once a week in order to prepare for the following:



Forced March (or "Hump") for 20 miles @ 4-5mph
Rucksack Run 3-4 miles timed (with 50 lb)After repeating the Marine PFT again you get to interview with the Team Leader and Company CO/XO. You may physically make it but still not get selected. Usually, it is attitude and teamwork difficulties that get you rejected at this phase of INDOC.

Once selected, the Marines are assigned Recon Indoctrination Platoon. This is similar to going back to bootcamp. The Marines have only supervised liberty, physical training and classes at all time of the day and night at the Amphibious Reconnaissance School (ARS) in Little Creek, VA or Coronado, CA. Once the Marine finishes ARS, he is a Reconnaissance Marine.

He doesnt lose the GI bill if he is a reservist.

[Echo_Four_Bravo]

All a recon contract promises is that he will get a chance to tryout. It doesn't ensure he will ever be a reconman, because there is no way to know if he can hack it until they watch him try.

The active vs. reserve debate is the same for any job. He won't be as good if he is a reservist, but he can do other things he may want to do in addition to being a Marine. If there is a reserve recon unit near your home that is a possibility. If there isn't, then active duty would be his only option.

[outlaw3179]

He still has to get through the one of the toughest schools in the military before he becomes recon.

Marine Recon INDOC1st Force Recon's current "indoc" or RIP is a 48 hr. evolution. Previously, in order to even get invited to attend the indoctrination course, you must have between 3-4 years of experience in the field and should be scoring at least 285 on the Marine Corp PFT: As with any Special Operation units, you must be a stellar Marine with a near flawless record. Recently, the new program mentioned above will allow highly motivated new recruits a chance to attend RIP. As long as they are physically above average and are able to reach the scores above (275 enlisted – 285 officer) they can attend after bootcamp. Below scores represent a perfect 300 on the USMC PFT:



3 mile run (18:00min 100pts)
20 pullups (dead hang) 100pts
80 situps/2min. 100pts.You will be required to perform two obstacle courses in under 2:00 each time, swim 500 meters in full cammies in 17:00, and other fun water activities. 10 mile ruck with 50lbs pack in under 2 hours is also graded.

It helps to prepare months in advance with swimming at least 4-5 times a week. Wear cammies and fins at least once a week too. Minimum swim practice time should be an hour daily.

You will also be required to perform what is called a Level Test which is:



Max Push ups 2min.
Max Sit ups 2min.
Max Pull ups 2min.
Max Flutter Kicks 2min.
Max 8 Count pushups in 2:00
Max scissors in 2:00 Your calisthenics workouts should consist of the above exercises performed every other day for a total of 3-4 times per week. The day of PT rest will help your muscles recover and be able to gain more reps in two minutes. Also practice perfect form but do each of the exercises as fast as you can. Speed and endurance is your goal.

Running is also a major part of INDOC. You should run at least 4-5 times per week and perform a rucksack run once a week in order to prepare for the following:



Forced March (or "Hump") for 20 miles @ 4-5mph
Rucksack Run 3-4 miles timed (with 50 lb)After repeating the Marine PFT again you get to interview with the Team Leader and Company CO/XO. You may physically make it but still not get selected. Usually, it is attitude and teamwork difficulties that get you rejected at this phase of INDOC.

Once selected, the Marines are assigned Recon Indoctrination Platoon. This is similar to going back to bootcamp. The Marines have only supervised liberty, physical training and classes at all time of the day and night at the Amphibious Reconnaissance School (ARS) in Little Creek, VA or Coronado, CA. Once the Marine finishes ARS, he is a Reconnaissance Marine.

He doesnt lose the GI bill if he is a reservist.

Wow Matt ,

you really know alot about Recon. Where did you learn all this cool info. When you went through boot camp or did you do any of this when you were in the fleet?
I guess when yellowing deleted your first post you didnt understand what he mean did you ? Who cares , your probably so squared away you dont need to listen to a Marine on this site , hell you may not even have to go to boot camp . Thats how locked the f*ck on you are.

[Mikewebe]

First off Force is no longer Matt and sit ups are gone as well, and I'd love to see the man that can sustain a 5 mile an hour pace with 50lbs for four hours. Marine Corps policy was 3 mph walk 50 minutes rest 10. Army Rangers and SF do 4mph but 12 miles is their goal not 15 like the Corps.

And both recon units I did live close to are gone. Reno was 4th Force, now a Sniper and Linguist outfit, and Bozeman MT was 4th Battalion and is now Anti Terror Battalion.

[thewookie]

I bet 1 out of 10, probably less -- of those "contract" reconners make it past RIP. And if you take all of those who make it past RIP (or whatever they call it these days, the 1st hazing session)...

[Mikewebe]

No doubt about that and even the hardest grunts aren't cut out for recon. Usually the smaller un assuming types flourish there, even though you do have some muscle heads as with any group.

[AL49BGN]

His contract is just allowing him to tryout for a 0321 Recon man MOS.He must then pass a very tough school.He must then attend additional schools to achieve a 8654 MOS of Scuba and Paratrooper certified Recon man.Good luck to your son.

[AL49BGN]

This is not a forum you are allowed to post on.That is why yellowwing our moderator deleted your first post.Now as yellowwing would say march yourself over to the poolee hall.

[thewookie]

My son is planing on joining the Marines and is going to sign a Reconnaissance contract. What are the pros/cons of recon active duty versus reserve?
Thanks!


Oh and by the way,, thank you, and your son for joining. My comments were meant to be general in nature and reflect my frustration with the constant barrage of poolees and wannabees that think some documentary, or TV show they watched is anything like the real thing.

If he doesn't make it the first time: if he's worth anything it will only fuel the fire and someday if his heart is in the right place -- he MIGHT make it.

Whatever happens, he's got to be a Marine first.

[PittsMom]

Oh so if he doesn't make Recon would he be placed in another job?
Or would he still be infantry?

Thank you all so much!

[thewookie]

Oh so if he doesn't make Recon would he be placed in another job?
Or would he still be infantry?

Thank you all so much!

Assuming he went in on an 03XX (Infantry) contract then he would be sent to the grunts, yes, if he doesn't make it. Then he can learn the basics of what it takes to make it to RIP. It might take a couple of years before he's ready for that.

There are guys that can make it right from the get go, but they are far and few between and born dolphins. The rest spend a while learning to be dolphins that can also run like a gazelle wearing 100 lbs of gear. And,, they need to be real freaking smart, too.

[zx6rdr]

Assuming he went in on an 03XX (Infantry) contract then he would be sent to the grunts, yes, if he doesn't make it. Then he can learn the basics of what it takes to make it to RIP. It might take a couple of years before he's ready for that.



Actually Sgt, they have changed it. When I went in ('99) I had the 0321 contract and like you said before all it was just a guaranteed "try-out". I was under the impression at the time if I didnt make it I would go back to SOI and complete the rest of my contract as a 03XX (which is what I wanted to do anyway). That was not the case, once I did not make the cut I was informed that I was now assigned as "open contract" and was going to be placed in any MOS other than 03XX. So, I went and got my new MOS-0411.. The rest is history.

[Mikewebe]

Hmm never heard of that before, but you were there not me.

And Mom of the soon to be Marine. Wookie has good advice and things change up often. But as I stated earlier if he goes into the reserve he will be placed in a unit that your state has. For example the only Marine unit in Montana is Infantry. And there are a limited number of spots for other jobs such as Admin and Motor T. SO if you live in a state that only has an Engineer unit lets say thats what he will most likely be

[thewookie]

Actually Sgt, they have changed it. When I went in ('99) I had the 0321 contract and like you said before all it was just a guaranteed "try-out". I was under the impression at the time if I didnt make it I would go back to SOI and complete the rest of my contract as a 03XX (which is what I wanted to do anyway). That was not the case, once I did not make the cut I was informed that I was now assigned as "open contract" and was going to be placed in any MOS other than 03XX. So, I went and got my new MOS-0411.. The rest is history.

Well, just goes to show I don't know jack!

0411 - MIMMS clerk? I OJTed that MOS on my first tour because I was the only fool in the motor pool to volunteer one day. I got my first NAM out of doing it, but it was way too much paperwork for me. I'm sure it's much different now. SF Marine

[PittsMom]

Anyone still out there? Big day tomorrow...selecting MOS & signing on Friday (which is technically tomorrow I guess, at this point).

[DAMNPROUD]

From what ive read going recon i kind of like being a great football player in highschool and going on to the NFL.it happens but not often!

[zx6rdr]

Well, just goes to show I don't know jack!

0411 - MIMMS clerk? I OJTed that MOS on my first tour because I was the only fool in the motor pool to volunteer one day. I got my first NAM out of doing it, but it was way too much paperwork for me. I'm sure it's much different now. SF Marine

Sgt, I didnt mean to imply that you dont know jack! :beer:

Yes, MIMMS clerk. Hahaha funny story- Right after I was assigned that MOS I asked one of the MCT instructors what it was so he directed me to a MOS chart in the squadbay, Marine Itegrated Maintenance Management Specialist.... I thought HMMMM I going to be changing light bulbs and fixing doors on all the buildings around base... hahaha, Boy I was wrong. As for the paperwork.... its still there you just do it and put the info in the computer, Like doing the work twice!!

[thewookie]

Sgt, I didnt mean to imply that you dont know jack! :beer:

I didn't think that you were, I need to tell myself that everyone once in a while to keep my ego in check!

And funny story right back at you -- I went in open contract and got 3531 -- then I OJTed 0411. It's not where you start, but where you end. SF

[MSgt Borrowman]

Assuming he went in on an 03XX (Infantry) contract then he would be sent to the grunts, yes, if he doesn't make it. Then he can learn the basics of what it takes to make it to RIP. It might take a couple of years before he's ready for that.

There are guys that can make it right from the get go, but they are far and few between and born dolphins. The rest spend a while learning to be dolphins that can also run like a gazelle wearing 100 lbs of gear. And,, they need to be real freaking smart, too.

Currently the initial qualifications have been lowered in order to meet Marine Corps end strength increases in 0321, so chances are good that he will make it to the course if he is in decent shape. The initial requirements are not nearly as rigorous as they once were.


He may need to serve on one deployment with an infantry battalion initially, but as long as he scores a 200 or higher on the PFT, has a 105 GT or higher, a 3rd class swim qual, and no vision problems, he should be able to hack BRC. It will be rigorous, but the intent of the course is not to fail Marines, but rather give them the tools necessary to succeed. If he really wants it, he can make it.

To answer the original question, the advantage of being a reservist vice active duty would be more time to complete higher education and the ability to serve and advance in a civilian profession as well as military.

The disadvantages of being a reservist would be no/less retirement pay(if he decides to stay in to 20/30), no tuition assistance (although the GI Bill may still take care of him), and the possibility of having to drop everything going on in his life at any given moment as a civilian in order to serve the needs of the Marine Corps at any given time in any part of the world.

As active duty Marines, this is understood and a part of life, I can imagine it would be rather disruptive to serve 5 or more years in the reserves, have no deployments, a settled job/family, then pick up and leave all of a sudden.

Of course, a Marine is a Marine, and we all understand (or should) the needs of the Corps above our own personal lives, reservist or not.

And if there does not happen to be a reserve unit with recon Marines in your state, he can always go to the closest state that does have one.

If he goes for it and doesn't pass the Basic Reconnassaince Course (BRC), then he will be reassigned according to the needs of the Corps (any MOS) and can lat move into 0321 later once he corrects his deficiencies.

http://www.marines.mil/news/messages/Pages/2007/Messagesa31.aspx