View Full Version : Religion
OhioJamSk8er
07-07-08, 10:36 PM
I am a teenager in highschool possibly considering the Marine Corps. Only problem is that I am a christian. And I know that God is in a Marines heart. But my question is how do you teach yourself that it is alright to fight even though the ten commandments say thou shall not kill. I struggle with passing this barrier.
Isrowei
07-07-08, 10:53 PM
God puts a prohibition on murder. War is a state function. Ask yourself how the same God that required the Israelites to "not kill" also required them to kill every single man, woman, and child of the city of AI? What about Jericho? The Caananites?
Murder is wrong. But God definately sanctions killing under certain circumstances.
dutch1291
07-07-08, 11:17 PM
Well put, Lieutenant.
As the good Lt. states the commandment really translates to "You shall not murder"
As Christians we are called to make peace and forbidden to murder, but but we can legitimately defend ourselves with deadly force when the time calls for it for preservation of self or state.
Jesus even acknowledges the legitimate use of force In Luke 22:36 when he tells the Apostles "let him who has no sword sell his mantle and buy one"
In Luke 3:14 when asked by Roman soldiers about what they should do, John the Baptist tells them "Do not practice extortion, do not falsely accuse anyone, and be satisfied with you wages." He never tells them to throw away their swords and become pacifist.
davblay
07-08-08, 01:28 AM
That question was asked one time, by a Soldier, of his Commanding officer. The year was 1917, the War was World War I. This Commanding officer, a religious man himself, told this soldier to take ten...
Gary Hall
07-08-08, 06:59 AM
Thank you, Sir. Gary Hall.
Dave,
Excellent story. Sgt. York was a heck of a soldier and a man deeply devoted to God.
Our history is filled with men who are deeply committed Christians and warriors. The difference is a soldier / Marine is fighting to protect the weak and there peoples freedoms.
God commands us to look out for the weak, to protect them. He commanded the Israelites to rebuild a wall around the city with a sword in one hand.
A list of men who have served that are devote Christians are Oliver North ( Marine ret.), Chesty Puller ( Marine ret.) Sgt. York ( Army ), Teddy Roosevelt ( president and commander of Rough Riders in Spanish American war), Gen. Robert E. Lee, George Washington and many, many more.
Alpha1Devildog
07-08-08, 07:46 AM
I am a teenager in highschool possibly considering the Marine Corps. Only problem is that I am a christian. And I know that God is in a Marines heart. But my question is how do you teach yourself that it is alright to fight even though the ten commandments say thou shall not kill. I struggle with passing this barrier.
If you ever get the chance watch the movie Sgt. York. Better yet, study Alvin York, and see what decision(s) he came to.
Woops. . . . Seems davblay beat me to that suggestion. But it's a good one.
Isrowei
07-08-08, 08:00 AM
Thanks for filling in some chaper and verse references Gents. I didn't have a Bible handy when posted. All good stuff.
Sgt. York is an excellent story and one that I think every Marine should read, whether they are religious or not.
CH53MetalMan
07-08-08, 08:25 AM
OhioJam
You're asking a personal question that only you can answer. It is a very tough and deep question that we all should reflect upon and from tme to time, over the course of our lives, perhaps even changing our views on, if you believe personal growth requires change. You mentioned that you are a 'Christian' so consider that God knew dark powers would rule our world, during this age. But that is if you're only looking into the Old Testament Bible. Christianity begins with the New Testament and the birth of Jesus - - so now the question becomes would Jesus consider any war as 'just' - - and I don't know the answer to that one. I know that Jesus desciples carried swords as one cut the ear off from one of the abductors that took Jesus away to be judged. But Jesus reattached the ear, so I don't know for certain where he stands on self defense and his comment about turning the other cheek doesn't bode well for self defense.
Even still, I'd hate to get this one wrong and live as a slave, same too with the rest of my family and country. Freedom is the driving force behind our military forces.
Good Luck
For someone who said, "thou shall not kill" he has done a crap load of killing himself. Suppose what I'm saying is if you have a good reason to "smoke" someone its ok, at least to me it is.
<table cellspacing="10"><tbody><tr><td>
</td> <td align="left"> SAB (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/), Brick Testament (http://www.thebricktestament.com/)</td> <th align="right">Number Killed</th> <th align="right">Cummulative Total</th></tr></tbody></table> <table cellspacing="10"><tbody><tr><td>God drowns everyone on earth (except Noah and his family)</td> <td>Genesis 7:23 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/gen/7.html#23), BT (http://www.thebricktestament.com//genesis/the_flood/gn06_11.html)</td> <td align="right">30,000,000? (http://dwindlinginunbelief.blogspot.com/2007/01/gods-uncounted-killings-revisited-with.html#flood)</td> <td align="right">30,000,000</td> </tr> <tr> <td>God rains fire and brimstone on Sodom and Gomorrah, killing everyone.</td> <td>Gen.19:24 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/gen/19.html#24), BT (http://www.thebricktestament.com//genesis/sodom_and_gomorrah/gn19_01.html)</td> <td align="right">1000? (http://dwindlinginunbelief.blogspot.com/2007/01/gods-uncounted-killings-revisited-with.html#sodom)</td> <td align="right">30,001,000</td> </tr> <tr> <td>Lot’s wife for looking back</td> <td>Gen.19:26 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/gen/19.html#26), BT (http://www.thebricktestament.com//genesis/sodom_and_gomorrah/gn19_26a.html)</td> <td align="right">1</td> <td align="right">30,001,001</td> </tr> <tr> <td>Er who was “wicked in the sight of the Lord”</td> <td>Gen.38:7 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/gen/38.html#7), BT (http://www.thebricktestament.com//genesis/er_and_onan/gn38_01.html)</td> <td align="right">1</td> <td align="right">30,001,002</td> </tr> <tr> <td>Onan for spilling his seed</td> <td>Gen.38:10 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/gen/38.html#10), BT (http://www.thebricktestament.com//genesis/er_and_onan/gn38_01.html)</td> <td align="right">1</td> <td align="right">30,001,003</td> </tr> <tr> <td>7th Egyptian Plague: Hail</td> <td>Exodus 9:25 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/ex/9.html#25), BT (http://www.thebricktestament.com//exodus/the_seventh_plague/ex09_13.html)</td> <td align="right">30,000? (http://dwindlinginunbelief.blogspot.com/2007/01/gods-uncounted-killings-revisited-with.html#seventh)</td> <td align="right">30,031,003</td> </tr> <tr> <td>God kills every Egyptian firstborn child.</td> <td>Ex.12:29-30 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/ex/12.html#29), BT (http://www.thebricktestament.com//exodus/the_tenth_plague/ex11_01.html)</td> <td align="right">500,000? (http://dwindlinginunbelief.blogspot.com/2007/01/gods-uncounted-killings-revisited-with.html#firstborn)</td> <td align="right">30,531,003</td> </tr> <tr> <td>God drowns Egyptian army</td> <td>Ex.14:28 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/ex/14.html#28), BT (http://www.thebricktestament.com//exodus/egyptians_drowned/ex12_37.html)</td> <td align="right">1000? (http://dwindlinginunbelief.blogspot.com/2007/01/gods-uncounted-killings-revisited-with.html#army)</td> <td align="right">30,532,003</td> </tr> <tr> <td>God and Moses help Joshua kill the Amalekites</td> <td>Ex.17:13 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/ex/17.html#13), BT (http://www.thebricktestament.com//exodus/war_with_the_amalekites/ex17_08.html)</td> <td align="right">1000? (http://dwindlinginunbelief.blogspot.com/2007/01/gods-uncounted-killings-revisited-with.html#amalek)</td> <td align="right">30,533,003</td> </tr> <tr> <td>For dancing naked around Aaron’s golden calf</td> <td>Ex.32:27-28, 35 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/ex/32.html#27), BT (http://www.thebricktestament.com/exodus/the_golden_calf/ex24_12.html)</td> <td align="right">3000</td> <td align="right">30,536,003</td> </tr> <tr> <td>Aaron’s sons for offering strange fire before the Lord</td> <td>Lev.10:1-3 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/lev/10.html#1), Num.3:4 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/num/3.html#4), 26:61 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/num/26.html#61), BT (http://www.thebricktestament.com//the_wilderness/god_kills_aarons_sons/lv10_01a.html)</td> <td align="right">2</td> <td align="right">30,536,005</td></tr></tbody></table>And the list goes on and on.........
http://flux64.wordpress.com/2007/02/27/how-many-has-god-killed-complete-list-and-estimated-total/
Rowe907
07-08-08, 11:23 AM
I totally forgot about Sgt. York!!! Awesome story.
If God has a hard-on for Marines, He's got a chubby for Pooles and Recruits, right?
Isrowei
07-08-08, 12:43 PM
If God has a .....
Sometimes I don't mind a little crassness. I don't think this is the place for it though.
An honest discussion on religion should at least remain free of vulgarity simply out of respect.
I don't think that's too much to ask. Do you?
Sometimes I don't mind a little crassness. I don't think this is the place for it though.
An honest discussion on religion should at least remain free of vulgarity simply out of respect.
I don't think that's too much to ask. Do you?
Thank you sir.
Wing, just trying to give them another viewpoint on it....to look at it at a different angle, so to speak, ooops, my bad. ;)
Zulu 36
07-08-08, 06:23 PM
This divine dichotomy is something you have to come to a personal accommodation over. I agree that the Commandment at issue truly prohibits "murder" (an unlawful killing). Killing an enemy of your country under orders, or killing an attacker in self-defense, or defense of others, is not murder.
This is a mind set you must have to be a Marine, soldier, a police officer, or anyone else that lawfully carries a weapon for offense or defense. Any mental reservations have to be discarded well ahead of time, otherwise you, or others, could die that otherwise may not.
In boot camp, my drill instructors were quite blunt about the subject (all three were infantry vets of Vietnam). When I taught firearms at the police academy, we (instructor staff) were equally blunt. If you aren't 100% willing to pull the trigger, the military (or police work) isn't for you.
semperfi170
07-08-08, 08:15 PM
The recent Chairman of the JCS - General Peter Pace - Marine is also a devout Christian and fought in Vietnam.
Basically, it boils down to your belief set as was already stated. If you believe the interpretation that the commandment means other than a prohibition against murder, DON'T BECOME A MARINE. But, think about this when trying to figure out what it means to you: what if your mother, father, sister, brother, wife, children, were being attacked and it required deadly force to prevent their being killed. What would you do? Than equate your answer to defending this country and being in the Marine Corps.
Nick Valdez
07-08-08, 08:20 PM
:!:
I am a teenager in highschool possibly considering the Marine Corps. Only problem is that I am a christian. And I know that God is in a Marines heart. But my question is how do you teach yourself that it is alright to fight even though the ten commandments say thou shall not kill. I struggle with passing this barrier.
:flag: I'm a ordained deacon in the catholic church and a Viet Nam vet. The catholic church teaches that if it is a just war then it is ok to take another person's life. The question is what is a just war? That is something you have to think about. Hope this helps you. Semper Fi