Generation Kill On HBO (USMC in Iraq)

[jetdawgg]

http://www.hbo.com/generationkill/

[Pete0331]

I read the book, it was alright. A little to much bravado though.
And I had the distinct feeling that some of the info the author had was taken from the "Lance Corporal Underground."

With that said, I'll still watch it.

[fontman]

Camp Pendleton Marines laud drama's authenticity
Miniseries portrays unit in early days of Iraq war
By Rick Rogers
SAN DIEGO UNION-TRIBUNE STAFF WRITER
July 10, 2008

Camp Pendleton officials rolled out a red carpet last night for the warts-and-glory miniseries “Generation Kill,” a drama about an elite unit from their base that played a pivotal role in the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq in 2003.

In seven hour-long episodes, actors and a real-life Marine chronicle 40 days in the lives of troops from the Bravo Company, 1st Reconnaissance Battalion as they battle their way to Baghdad.

They are shown fighting insurgents, bonding with each other as a second family, making homophobic and sexist comments, degrading Iraqis, talking about the thrill of killing, joking to lighten the stress of combat and pondering their post-war existence.

They also complain about poor, even incompetent, leadership by their commanders and rail against the Marine Corps' frequent changes to its rules of engagement.

“I think the majority of the guys are very happy with the series,” said former Staff Sgt. Eric Kocher, 28, who helped lead the reconnaissance unit and is a veteran of five combat tours in Iraq and Afghanistan.

“Just watching it makes you feel like you're there because of the detailed accuracy put into the filming,” said Kocher, who served as a technical adviser for the project.

Cpl. Josh Ray Person, another Marine portrayed in the miniseries, said the Marine Corps might not be happy with the show because it expects perfection from its troops.

“But every family has its problems. I hope audiences will see that the war is being fought by real people,” said Person, 27, who left the military shortly after his 2003 deployment and lives in Kansas City, Mo.

“I may come off in the movie as hating the Marine Corps,” he said, “but I actually love the service to death and I'm grateful for what it has given me – the leadership skills and the call to action.”

The Marine Corps, like the Army, has an office in Hollywood that advises producers, directors and writers working on projects that involve military subjects. But it did not participate in making “Generation Kill” and does not endorse it.

Nonetheless, Camp Pendleton officials allowed the miniseries to be shown yesterday in a theater on the base. In a statement, they thanked HBO for providing free, off-duty entertainment.

Actors and former members of Bravo Company attended last night's event, where Marines and their families watched two episodes.

“Generation Kill” will start airing Sunday. HBO adapted the controversial Rolling Stone magazine series and subsequent book from a journalist who was embedded with the unit.

The drama's creators and many of the servicemen portrayed in it, including 11 who are still in uniform, said they hope the show will resonate with the public.

“We are trying to depict young men in a modern war and what war has become,” said David Simon, the show's screenwriter and executive producer who was the creative force behind the HBO drama “The Wire.”

“The one thing that I hope people get out of this film, whether pro-or anti-war, is its impact on the people who fight it. . . . It might be nice if there was any reflection about what the Iraqis have endured for five years,” he said. “War is a lot less precise and pristine than we think it is.”

Commanders usually use reconnaissance Marines to find the enemy and infiltrate its ranks. As a rule, such Marines fail in their mission if they have to fire a shot or otherwise give away their position.

Members of Bravo Company carried out reconnaissance work in Iraq, but they also joined standard combat operations.

They and Marines from other units in the 1st Reconnaissance Battalion left Camp Pendleton for their first Iraq war deployment in January 2003. The men crossed into Iraq on March 21 of that year.

In the following weeks, they fought battles in Safwan – just across the border with Kuwait – then rolled through Nasiriyah and Kut before reaching Baghdad. Often, their unit was the one that penetrated deepest behind enemy lines.

No one from the 374-member battalion died by the time they returned to Camp Pendleton in June. The Marines survived at least 17 firefights, many ambushes and at least one minefield.

The creators of “Generation Kill” said they strived for the utmost authenticity in depicting Kocher, Person and the other Marines.

On the HBO Web site for the miniseries, they describe the show as “a gritty, uncompromising account of the Iraq invasion . . . from the point of view of the guys on the ground.”

While taping the episodes, the producers held screenings in which they shared excerpts with Marines and sought their comment. They also decided to spend $150,000 on special effects after concluding that the natural setting in South Africa, Mozambique and Namibia didn't sufficiently resemble Iraq's landscape.

The result is one incredibly realistic episode after another – down to the chatter on the radio that's heard during many scenes, said some of the troops portrayed in the miniseries.

“People are going to be entertained,” said Antonio Espera, 35, who left the Marine Corps after eight years. “We have a very unique culture.”

Creators of the show said that in addition to accuracy, they tried to avoid politicizing the war. They wanted to convey an enduring message of how the Marines showed courage, forged unwavering unity and displayed a commitment to honorable behavior – even if they didn't always behave that way – despite the dehumanizing nature of war.

“I think overall, this is going to help the recon community and the Marine Corps,” Kocher said. “Our bad is that not that bad and our good is very good. The series is something positive coming out of the war.”

The project sprang from the writings of Evan Wright, a journalist who spent seven weeks in spring 2003 with the 1st Reconnaissance Battalion.

Wright's series for Rolling Stone won the National Magazine Award for Excellence in Reporting in 2004. That year, he published a book by the same name and it went on to win the PEN USA Award, J. Anthony Lukas Book Prize and the Los Angeles Times Book Award. It also was honored with the Gen. Wallace Greene Award from the Marine Corps Heritage Foundation.

“What I hope the series does,” Wright said, “is expose the public to the human story of a bunch of 20-somethings who are fighting because we sent them there.”

[ZSKI]

I have the first episode set to record on my DVR, incase i miss it. I want to see what its all about before i judge.

[fontman]

A grunt's-eye-view of war's snafus
Posted on Fri, Jul. 11, 2008
BY GLENN GARVIN
ggarvin@MiamiHerald.com

• Generation Kill, 9-10:15 p.m. Sunday, HBO

Two bedraggled enlisted men, exhausted after days of dodging snipers and artillery barrages, are awakened to search for a captain who went to a latrine outside the perimeter and got lost in the desert. 'Bleepin' officers will be the death of us yet,'' grumbles one as they resignedly head off into the night.

The moment is both the perfect distillation of every grunt's war, from Thermopylae to Valley Forge to Fajullah, and the perfect summation of Generation Kill, a raucous, raunchy and utterly loving account of life at the bottom of the military food chain.

A seven-part miniseries that debuts Sunday on HBO, Generation Kill is adapted from the nonfiction book of the same name by Evan Wright, a Rolling Stone reporter embedded with a Marine reconnaissance platoon during the 2003 invasion of Iraq. With a cast of outstanding if mostly unknown actors, it offers an unapologetic grunt's-eye view of the military, in which a brass hat is less a symbol of authority than an indelible mark of stupidity, cupidity or both. ''To think I believed the judge when he said the Marine Corps was a superior alternative to jail,'' sighs one Marine after yet another senseless order filters down from headquarters.

A kind of Catch-22 for the millennial generation, Generation Kill documents life inside an armed bureaucracy governed by martinets, morons and maniacs. One officer, nicknamed Encino Man after a cloddish movie caveman, mistakenly calls down a potentially murderous artillery strike on his own men; they survive only because he got the map coordinates wrong. A gunnery sergeant who forgets to order lubricants for the unit's machine guns, leaving them hopelessly jammed by Iraq's ubiquitous sandstorms, offers the men counseling instead: ``Remember, I am a certified combat stress instructor.''

Against officers who can mislay a truck containing the unit's entire supply of food and explosives, then bawl out a corporal who lost his helmet during an attack, the men have no weapon but irony. They deploy it to stinging effect, greeting every new cascade of contradictory orders with a deadpan twist of the Marine motto: ''Semper Gumby'' -- always flexible.

Rough-and-tumble fratboy humor, in fact, is their defense against almost everything: lousy food, dysentery, malfunctioning radios, errant fire from units of idiot reservists, Dear John letters from home. They posture as racists, loony-left conspiracy theorists (favorite: the mainstream media have suppressed news of the death of J.Lo to avoid a collapse in military morale), right-wing nuts and raving homophobes -- especially once the unit is joined by a reporter they enjoy twitting -- but it's all bluff. In reality, they divide the world, regardless of race, religion or even nationality, into two camps: The men in the foxholes around them, who've got their backs, and the loathsome POGs, Persons Other than Grunts -- that is, everybody else.

Generation Kill's title is mordant wordplay on the Greatest Generation label bestowed on the men and women who fought World War II, a reminder that no matter how great their cause, soldiers achieve it by killing people and blowing things up. It's a realization that comes slowly to the men of Bravo Platoon, who as they train for the invasion seem to think they're at the controls of a video game. ''That was cool,'' says one Marine after machine-gunning a truck during an exercise. ``I wonder what it would look like if it hit a person?''

He'll find out soon enough. The real war, when it arrives, is confusing, bloody and maddeningly oblique. After one battle, Bravo Platoon encounters a Marine wandering through a field, mourning a friend whose stomach has been blown to pieces. ''We returned fire and shot a donkey's head off,'' he says desolately. ``We didn't see much else.''

If the Marines in Generation Kill sometimes seem callow, why shouldn't they? Most of them are barely out of their teens. It's not fashionable to say so, but so was the Greatest Generation. As American troops fought another desert war 65 years ago, against the Nazis in North Africa, their commanders were horrified by an Army survey that showed the overwhelming majority had no idea what the war was about. The winning entry in an essay contest titled Why I Fight read, in its entirety: ``Because I was drafted.''

Generation Kill never condescends to its characters. It's written and produced by David Simon and Ed Burns, the team behind The Wire, HBO's morbid dissection of the criminal justice system's war on drugs, and they've retained The Wire's recurring theme of good people trapped in a bad system.

That's never more apparent than when they're dealing with the rules of engagement, or ROE, the ever-shifting regulations about when and at whom the Marines can fire their guns. In the opening hours of the invasion, the rules are so tight that when a convoy of armed Iraqis blocks the highway ahead, Bravo Platoon can only wave. ''Our ROE states uniformed soldiers only, and they should be firing at us,'' explains a headquarters officer on what it would take to authorize shooting. (It later turns out the men belonged to Saddam Hussein's death squads, hunting Iraqi army deserters.) Within a day or two, the rules have been relaxed enough that young boys tending camels are approved targets.

Even when headquarters stays out of it, the Marines learn, the war is a collection of painful uncertainties calling for split-second, life-or-death decisions. A man spotted through binoculars, 300 yards off -- is that a rifle in his hand, or a walking stick? Is that vehicle speeding toward the roadblock driven by a suicide bomber intent on mayhem or a desperate refugee fleeing Saddam?

One night, the lights of a village shimmering with the heat is mistaken for an approaching column of Iraqi armor, resulting in an air strike -- again botched by bad map coordinates. ''Eleven thousand pounds of ordnance dropped,'' muses an officer the next day, ``and we didn't hit any armor. Didn't destroy any villages, though, either. I guess that sort of goes in the win column, right?''

In the world of Generation Kill, definitely. War, Simon and Burns are reminding us, is a mighty club, powerful but also crude and -- for all our modern technology -- undiscriminating. ''Make no mistake!'' an officer bellows at the Marines as they assemble for the invasion. ''There will be no bleep-ups!'' Oh yes there will.

[idvs]

Reading the book about two years ago, I felt as though I was in the company of Marines. I'm currently stationed more than a thousand miles away from a Marine base and I re-read the book when ever I want to get nostalgic about my buddies.

What resonates with me more than the war stories or the (very) occasional politics is the idle jokes and friendly insults, the jabs between brothers who shrug their differences and know that the men around them are among the very best they'll ever know.

[fontman]

'Kill' shows savagery, cynicism of war <br />
By David Zurawik <br />
Baltimore Sun Television Critic <br />
July 13, 2008 <br />
<br />
In HBO's Generation Kill, the dust is endless, and the hostile terrain is marked by one...

[POOLEE DEAN]

I read the book, &quot; One Bullet Away&quot;, it is written by retired Captain Nathaniel fick, the Lt. in charge of the unit. I figured his book would be a lot less over the top and exaggerated then it's...

[gobuffs10]

The show was ok. Pretty funny. I dunno how the public will react. Racism and homophobia, intense desire to kill...who knows how folks will take all that? Oh well. Entertaining at least.

[thedrifter]

Posted on Sun, Jul. 13, 2008
A grunt's-eye-view of war's snafus
BY GLENN GARVIN
• Generation Kill, 9-10:15 p.m. Sunday, HBO

Two bedraggled enlisted men, exhausted after days of dodging snipers and artillery barrages, are awakened to search for a captain who went to a latrine outside the perimeter and got lost in the desert. 'Bleepin' officers will be the death of us yet,'' grumbles one as they resignedly head off into the night.

The moment is both the perfect distillation of every grunt's war, from Thermopylae to Valley Forge to Fajullah, and the perfect summation of Generation Kill, a raucous, raunchy and utterly loving account of life at the bottom of the military food chain.

A seven-part miniseries that debuts Sunday on HBO, Generation Kill is adapted from the nonfiction book of the same name by Evan Wright, a Rolling Stone reporter embedded with a Marine reconnaissance platoon during the 2003 invasion of Iraq. With a cast of outstanding if mostly unknown actors, it offers an unapologetic grunt's-eye view of the military, in which a brass hat is less a symbol of authority than an indelible mark of stupidity, cupidity or both. ''To think I believed the judge when he said the Marine Corps was a superior alternative to jail,'' sighs one Marine after yet another senseless order filters down from headquarters.

A kind of Catch-22 for the millennial generation, Generation Kill documents life inside an armed bureaucracy governed by martinets, morons and maniacs. One officer, nicknamed Encino Man after a cloddish movie caveman, mistakenly calls down a potentially murderous artillery strike on his own men; they survive only because he got the map coordinates wrong. A gunnery sergeant who forgets to order lubricants for the unit's machine guns, leaving them hopelessly jammed by Iraq's ubiquitous sandstorms, offers the men counseling instead: ``Remember, I am a certified combat stress instructor.''

Against officers who can mislay a truck containing the unit's entire supply of food and explosives, then bawl out a corporal who lost his helmet during an attack, the men have no weapon but irony. They deploy it to stinging effect, greeting every new cascade of contradictory orders with a deadpan twist of the Marine motto: ''Semper Gumby'' -- always flexible.

Rough-and-tumble fratboy humor, in fact, is their defense against almost everything: lousy food, dysentery, malfunctioning radios, errant fire from units of idiot reservists, Dear John letters from home. They posture as racists, loony-left conspiracy theorists (favorite: the mainstream media have suppressed news of the death of J.Lo to avoid a collapse in military morale), right-wing nuts and raving homophobes -- especially once the unit is joined by a reporter they enjoy twitting -- but it's all bluff. In reality, they divide the world, regardless of race, religion or even nationality, into two camps: The men in the foxholes around them, who've got their backs, and the loathsome POGs, Persons Other than Grunts -- that is, everybody else.

Generation Kill's title is mordant wordplay on the Greatest Generation label bestowed on the men and women who fought World War II, a reminder that no matter how great their cause, soldiers achieve it by killing people and blowing things up. It's a realization that comes slowly to the men of Bravo Platoon, who as they train for the invasion seem to think they're at the controls of a video game. ''That was cool,'' says one Marine after machine-gunning a truck during an exercise. ``I wonder what it would look like if it hit a person?''

He'll find out soon enough. The real war, when it arrives, is confusing, bloody and maddeningly oblique. After one battle, Bravo Platoon encounters a Marine wandering through a field, mourning a friend whose stomach has been blown to pieces. ''We returned fire and shot a donkey's head off,'' he says desolately. ``We didn't see much else.''

If the Marines in Generation Kill sometimes seem callow, why shouldn't they? Most of them are barely out of their teens. It's not fashionable to say so, but so was the Greatest Generation. As American troops fought another desert war 65 years ago, against the Nazis in North Africa, their commanders were horrified by an Army survey that showed the overwhelming majority had no idea what the war was about. The winning entry in an essay contest titled Why I Fight read, in its entirety: ``Because I was drafted.''

Generation Kill never condescends to its characters. It's written and produced by David Simon and Ed Burns, the team behind The Wire, HBO's morbid dissection of the criminal justice system's war on drugs, and they've retained The Wire's recurring theme of good people trapped in a bad system.

That's never more apparent than when they're dealing with the rules of engagement, or ROE, the ever-shifting regulations about when and at whom the Marines can fire their guns. In the opening hours of the invasion, the rules are so tight that when a convoy of armed Iraqis blocks the highway ahead, Bravo Platoon can only wave. ''Our ROE states uniformed soldiers only, and they should be firing at us,'' explains a headquarters officer on what it would take to authorize shooting. (It later turns out the men belonged to Saddam Hussein's death squads, hunting Iraqi army deserters.) Within a day or two, the rules have been relaxed enough that young boys tending camels are approved targets.

Even when headquarters stays out of it, the Marines learn, the war is a collection of painful uncertainties calling for split-second, life-or-death decisions. A man spotted through binoculars, 300 yards off -- is that a rifle in his hand, or a walking stick? Is that vehicle speeding toward the roadblock driven by a suicide bomber intent on mayhem or a desperate refugee fleeing Saddam?

One night, the lights of a village shimmering with the heat is mistaken for an approaching column of Iraqi armor, resulting in an air strike -- again botched by bad map coordinates. ''Eleven thousand pounds of ordnance dropped,'' muses an officer the next day, ``and we didn't hit any armor. Didn't destroy any villages, though, either. I guess that sort of goes in the win column, right?''

In the world of Generation Kill, definitely. War, Simon and Burns are reminding us, is a mighty club, powerful but also crude and -- for all our modern technology -- undiscriminating. ''Make no mistake!'' an officer bellows at the Marines as they assemble for the invasion. ''There will be no bleep-ups!'' Oh yes there will.

Ellie

[thedrifter]

July 14, 2008
Why we fight: Not enough sex
By 24 HOURS NEWS SERVICES


James Ransone's character in Generation Kill has a theory about war. Apparently war has nothing to do with power, security or oil. It's all about sex, or the lack thereof.

According to Cpl. Ray Person, who is portrayed by Ransone, if everyone in the world were getting enough sex, there would be no conflicts.

Sex or no sex, Cpl. Person and his fellow U.S. Marines do find themselves in a war - the 2003 invasion of Iraq - in Generation Kill. It's a new seven-part dramatic mini-series from HBO.

Generation Kill comes from the creative minds of David Simon and Ed Burns, who were responsible for the acclaimed series The Wire. Also serving as a consulting producer is Evan Wright, who wrote the book upon which Generation Kill is based. After spending two months embedded with the Marines in '03, Wright wrote a series of articles for Rolling Stone magazine. Those articles became the basis for his awardwinning book, Generation Kill: Devil Dogs, Iceman, Captain America and the New Face of American War.

In the small-screen version of Generation Kill, Wright is portrayed by Lee Tergesen. There's an amusing scene early in the first episode when the scribe arrives and is bombarded with insults about the peacenik, dope-smoking, hippie rag for which he writes. However, when Tergesen's character reveals that he used to write for Hustler ... well, talk about instant respect!

Now, speaking purely in cinematic terms, wars that occur in the desert don't offer a wide array of dramatic visuals. So for the first half-hour of Generation Kill's first episode viewers may feel as if they're lost in a blizzard of sand. A lot of characters are introduced, they're all dressed the same, and it's difficult to get a firm grasp of who's who. There's a lot of military lingo, too.

Nonetheless, by the end of the premiere episode, you'll be sucked into the tense and edgy narrative.

Call it bridging the Generation Kill gap.

Ellie

[thedrifter]

‘Generation Kill’: Police That Mustache!

“Hurry up and wait”: It’s a ruling concept of military life, and it was the ruling conceit of the first installment in HBO’s seven-part Iraq-war mini-series — which, after all, was written by David Simon and Ed Burns, reality-obsessed masterminds of The Wire, and based on the account of an embedded reporter for Rolling Stone. So, yeah, nothing really happened last night: As we meet them, the First Reconnaissance Battalion Marines are hanging around Camp Mathilda in Kuwait, indulging their homoerotic impulses and wondering when they’ll get to invade Iraq; then they begin leading the invasion of Iraq. But this onion’s got layers, of course. And if the tears aren’t flowing yet, the series has at least started revealing itself. We’ve color-coded our recap: Red for the hawkish, un-p.c. stuff, Blue for the blue-state bait, and Rainbow, well, that’s where we round up all the homoerotic happenings.

Red
An opening monologue, delivered over a robust ****, ends this way: “It’s destiny, dog. White man’s gotta rule the world.” We’re not sure, but this may prove germane to the animating conflict of the series. Mostly, though, our grunts jabber for bravado’s sake. A letter from a schoolboy elicits a ha-ha rant from Corporal Ray Person (James Ransom — Ziggy from The Wire) that turns on the phrases “Wine-sipping Communist dicksuck” and “Peace sucks a hairy *******.” And then you have the charming Corporal James Chaffin (Eric Ladin) telling Scribe (Lee Tergesen), as he arrives from Rolling Stone and is assigned a bunk, “They got you in the ghetto” as a prelude to some racial slurs that we didn’t even realize were in use anymore. The ensuing tension wends its way to Chaffin declaring that he and a buddy should go and “talk about what we’re gonna do when we get out of the Corps — join border patrol and shoot us some wetbacks.” It all comes to a fine point as they Marines are told how to deal with the fact that they might not able to distinguish Iraqi innocents from enemies: “If in your mind you fire to protect yourself or your team, it’s the right thing.” (Whispered aside: “Yo, I don’t wanna shoot no ****in’ farmer.” Offscreen rejoinder: “I’d shoot a ****in’ farmer.”)

Blue
Muses Corporal Jeff Carisalez, as he wrenches on his broke-down Hummer (we bet it’s not properly armored, either): “Once a year we need holiday where the blue-collar man gets to go into the home of the white-collar man, eat his food, sleep in his bed, and **** his **** up.” Replies Person: “Jeff, you realize you’re a Communist.” “**** I am!” Class war, though, isn’t the issue here — it’s plain war, and whether the troops are properly supplied and supported. Captain America is already a fount of bitterness. Scribe, he’s from the liberal media, so naturally he’s gonna ask, “You’re invading Iraq with just one translator?” But when we finally meet some Iraqis, on the run from the death squads, and they are “unsurrendered” so the soldiers can keep on the move, we witness the kind of thing that makes your heart bleed: that one translator confiscating the Iraqis’ cigarettes as they trudge off, destination unknown.

Rainbow
Well, there’s Rudy “Rhymes With Fruity” Reyes (apparently playing himself). He likes being naked around the other guys; he talks of moving to San Francisco after the war — with his girlfriend, which prompts some good-natured jeers. And of course there’s all the chatter (Person, shortly after shoving a truck part between Jeff’s legs: “I had to suck an officer’s cock to get this”), some intense shirtless wrestling, and close moments made possible by Hustler. Sergeant Major Sixta, meanwhile, uncorks his rage when he notices improperly trimmed facial hair (“Police that mustache!”) or an untucked shirt (“What are you, some kind of ******* hippie faggot?” — and what if Person said he was?). It’s all very cute, until one of those surrenders is found to have a photo of himself embracing a male friend, and the excitement ratchets up to something like you might see on a battlefield. —Nick Catucci


Ellie

[yellowwing]

I saw most of the first episode. Pretty good do far. Some of it seemed far fetched.

[Pete0331]

So far it's been pretty good.

[KABAR7]

I would have given my left nut to have been in the invasion rather than my last tour with the Corps over here. Late 2004 to early 2006 was total sheeeeit in Iraq. That being said, I don't get HBO here in Baghdad but I bet its spun cinematically to the left as much as a Rolling Stone journalist's writing and the producers of "The Wire" can get. I guess we'll see.

[Pete0331]

I would have given my left nut to have been in the invasion rather than my last tour with the Corps over here. Late 2004 to early 2006 was total sheeeeit in Iraq. That being said, I don't get HBO here in Baghdad but I bet its spun cinematically to the left as much as a Rolling Stone journalist's writing and the producers of "The Wire" can get. I guess we'll see.

You can find the first part on the internet. Thats how I watched it.

[usmchauer]

If you've got Verizon FIOS for your TV you can search for it. It's listed under video's on demand and you can watch the first episode for free. I liked it, and it was realistic. I completely forgot about how everyone refused to eat charms.

[sgtrock1970]

I watched the first installment of the series last night and so far so good. Marines will be Marines whatever era they're from. The same BS has gone around squadbays, fighting holes, bunkers since the BEGINNING so that much is realistic. being a Vietnam Marine the equipment is different but I liked it so far. Let's hope the rest is as good. SF

[darkgreen0311]

Yeah,i saw that bull. If that redneck Marine would of called me a jig he would of got busted in the mouth.





:marine:Semper Fi 4 Life
Give Me Liberty Or I'll Get It Myself

[SlingerDun]

I heard that JB and if you didn't pole-axe him i'd probably dismiss it to having the flu or overall poor health.

Before those actors were born or perhaps still draggin on the tit, derogatory racial insults were not doled out or received lightly in the grunts on civie streets or in corrals. Slamming a guy's very existence, was and still is in my world often accompanied by knuckles and takedowns or weapons and you better be ready to prove up. It ain't amusing.

When i heard that spew on HBO i was actually anticipating a staged brawl and they should have scheduled a short round since they are soooo adamant about reality and grithttp://www.leatherneck.com/forums/images/icons/icon6.gif

--->Dave

[darkgreen0311]

I hear you bro and he also made a racial comment about the Mexican Marine and the light Green Marine. I thought one of those Marines would of made him swallow some teeth. Just like you said Slingerdun that would of been a fight especially in the Fleet.







:marine:Semper Fi 4 Life
Give Me Liberty Or I'll Get It Myself

[egbutler1]

awesome book, and the series captures the book very well, so far.

[RLeon]

I don't remember Cpl Person being so annoying in the book.

[thedrifter]

Generation Kill, "Cradle of Civilization": Everything turns to poo
by Alan Sepinwall/The Star-Ledger
Monday July 21, 2008, 12:25 AM

Briefer than I'd like (hey, it's press tour, and Coolio is being really loud outside my window) spoilers for episode two of "Generation Kill" coming up just as soon as I earn my stories...

As First Recon really pushes into Iraq, at one point becoming the northernmost-unit of the invasion, we begin to get a sense of just how FUBAR the entire operation is. Or maybe that's just the way it seems from ground level.

The mission they've been training for gets scrubbed, with no real explanation. Godfather and Sgt. Major Sixta continue to push for the shaving of the moostashes -- and Sixta finds a way to do it that completely kills all the buzz from second platoon surviving the ambush -- and we start to see just how much Godfather is motivated by a desire to do something glamorous and exciting to impress General Matis (played by Hey! It's That Guy! Robert John Burke), regardless of whether it makes sense for his men. They're still inadequately supplied, and after Fick is assured that they'll enter a town under cover of night, we immediately cut to the Marines entering in the daytime. Captain America gets hold of an enemy AK-47 and begins firing it indiscriminately -- never a good idea in a combat zone, given how the Marines are trained to differentiate the sound of their own weapons from those of the enemy, right?

And yet, within that, we begin to get a sense of just how good and smart the Recon Marines themselves are. One of my favorite moments in the episodes I've seen comes the bit where they're rolling through the town, and Colbert reassures Trombley not to panic, without even needing to turn around to see either Trombley or whatever it was that Trombley was apparently scared of. This is a man who pays such close attention to detail that he judges the quality of his bowel movements to help assess his combat readiness; this is a man you do not want to mess with, I think.

(This episode had going number two on its mind quite a bit -- albeit all of it drawn from the book -- as we also got the whole bit about leaving toilet paper and other detritus around versus the neatness of the Afghanistan mission, as well as the Iraqi woman watching a Marine casually take a dump in her yard.)

I'm not sure, to be honest, how much I care for the scenes that are just of Godfather, or Godfather with Mattis, etc. Evan Wright's explanation for why the miniseries is more opaque than the book is that Simon wanted to put us into the heads of the Marines on the ground, and/or Wright himself, and that all the explanatory details about the mission and what's happening away from Colbert's Humvee is stuff that Wright found out way after the fact. And if that's the case, then that makes thematic sense. But then throwing in material about the higher-ups, stuff that the Recon Marines aren't privy to (as opposed to a briefing that Fick might attend) seems to go against the spirit of that. I'd rather the storytelling either adopted an entirely Colbert-centric point of view or else became omniscient enough that some of the chain of command stuff helped to clarify exactly what was going on.

Getting back to Colbert, it's really interesting to observe the dynamic inside the Humvee. Because he's so good at what he does, and because he carries himself in a certain way, his humor sneaks up on you. When he busts on Trombley for knocking up his girlfriend, it sounds at first almost like he's taunting him, but after a while it becomes clear that, no, that's just how Colbert sounds when he's cracking a joke. James Ransone as Person is the obvious standout performance in the mini, but I'm really enjoying watching Alexander Skarsgard work.

What did everybody else think?


Ellie

[LVMY0311]

I'm loving the series. Watched the first and second episode with my husband last night, and all he did was laugh. He usually doesn't like any movies or series about Iraq, the conflict, or the Marine Corps, but I told him I watched the first one and loved it... so I basically forced him to watch it.

I was giving him a back rub and put it on and the background... within 5 minutes he was flipped on his back laughing his butt off. And the great part was the every 10 minutes he would interject with a story of when he was in Iraq, because the series was bringing up all of these memories.

I'm glad he enjoyed it, and this is a great bonding opportunity for us.

love it! : )

[sgtrock1970]

Loved it, loved it, loved it. best Jarhead Flic (so far) since Full Metal Jacket. Is the term Aye, aye sir not used anymore? Just wondering.

[thedrifter]

Generation Kill

By Lt. Col. Gordon Cucullu
FrontPageMagazine.com | 7/22/2008

Five years after Evan Wright was embedded with the Marines in the invasion of Iraq, his book, Generation Kill, has made the small screen. In the HBO opening episode, “Get Some,” we meet the Marines of First Marine Recon Battalion in Kuwait preparing for the attack. In this episode, Wright joins the Marines who react with distain to his Rolling Stone credentials, but respond with enthusiasm when they learn that he was the porn flick reviewer for Hustler magazine in a previous job.

As Wright himself has been quick to point out, this film (and his book) were constructed to reflect “the lance corporal’s point of view.” Early scenes portray the battalion’s sergeant-major as a martinet who is harshly insistent on maintenance of “grooming standards” (“get rid of that moustache!”) but ignores vehicle maintenance and essentials like maps of the area of operations.

All officers higher than the second lieutenant platoon commander suffer from stereotypical portrayal. The company commander is incredibly lax, enjoying a Pizza Hut treat while forgetting to alert his subordinates that a movement to attack is imminent. The battalion commander, a Marine lieutenant colonel with a harsh, grating voice, refers to himself in the third person and seems to be preoccupied with facial hair growth while brushing off mission essential items.

When Wright’s character learns that the speech impairment is a result of throat cancer, he asks the battalion commander if he was a smoker.

“No,” the colonel replied, “Just lucky, I guess.” Meanwhile, the Marines have to scrounge spare parts for their humvees, pay out of their own pockets to get necessary gear such as batteries for their night vision devices, and look with envy at Army units who have better equipment.

Wright does not spare himself, and recounts a humorous incident during a SCUD attack and poison gas alert in which he becomes painfully tangled in his protective gear and has to be cut away by a nearby Marine. "I just performed testicle surgery on the reporter," chortles the Marine after snipping away cords that were tangled around Wright’s groin.

Much has been made of the language and attitudes of the Marines in this opening episode. Comments on harsh dialogue, racial epitaphs, homophobia and preoccupation with sex have been said by some reviewers to mar the script. When I watched episode one, I was in the company of a former Army private who thought that the dialogue mirrored similar experiences. From my days – decades previously – as a junior enlisted man I agreed.

Having very recently returned from an embed with soldiers in Iraq, and from more than two decades spent as enlisted and officer, I can say that the dialogue sounded like authentic soldier-speak to me. If you’re looking for erudite, philosophical discussions, try a coffee shop or college campus. Avoid the barracks. Conversely, some of the dialogue accurately reflected the fighting-man’s point of view about how naively civilians view war, and what war is really about. “We’re here to kill,” one of the characters says. And that is about as succinct a summary of the infantry mission as one is likely to find.

While accomplishing his goal to present war from a grunt’s-eye view, Wright missed much of what has to take place at the senior non-commissioned officer and officer levels in order to bring the entire force to the show. He repeats Marines’ lines about officer and NCO incompetence, leaving the uninitiated viewer to believe that such observations are factual. By doing so, Wright, perhaps unintentionally, creates the distinct impression that the enlisted Marines are victims of the system, simple troops trying to accomplish an impossible mission while being led by incompetents.

It is somewhat amusing to be told that this generation is somehow different from legions of their predecessors. One can easily imagine similar dialogue from disgruntled Roman legionnaires, griping about lack of adequate equipment, stupidity of leaders, constant changes of mission, and conflicting orders as they prepared to cross into Gaul to take on the barbarians.

When bigoted white Marines verbally assault black and Hispanic comrades, it is evocative of the scene in Samuel Fuller’s Big Red One when a new squad member derided one of the veterans for his Italian heritage. “What do they let Wops into this man’s Army for?” the character asks just before an M-1 is shoved into his mouth, effectively silencing him. The more things seem to change, the more they simply repeat.

Wright said that he intentionally selected the title Generation Kill to contrast today’s soldiers with those of the Second World War’s “greatest generation.” But anyone who has spent time with the military in any war will quickly recognize characters from their own experiences. Perhaps the most important point to glean from this episode is that enlisted soldiers preparing to go into combat are rough, tough, and lean – particularly in the area of political correctness, regardless of the era.

It is also helpful for the viewer to maintain perspective. In essence, the Marines of Generation Kill were from a peacetime military establishment. Every unit in every war must complete the often painful transition from garrison duty to combat, and it must be accomplished virtually overnight. We see this happening in episode one.

It is axiomatic that when wars begin, orders are confusing – and are often conflicting.

Rules of engagement that sound perfectly logical in base camp in Kuwait, for example, become suddenly inapplicable when unforeseen situations arise. In one scene what turns out to be fedayeen Saddam death squads are waved off on orders from battalion because the enemy is not wearing uniforms. Such incidents quickly became part of lessons learned and Marines adjusted accordingly. They are less likely to happen today because soldiers are aware that neither al Qaeda nor militia fighters wear uniforms.

While platoon members grouse about this seemingly irrational order, the viewer is unaware of the command reality of issuing orders to kill what may turn out to be civilians. In Iraq the American military is under strictest orders to avoid collateral damage – harming innocent civilians – and the choice between possibly letting an enemy go and enduring scathing criticism from judgmental media continues to be problematic to this day.

Through his characters, Wright points out chronic Marine Corps issues, such as having to go to war with old, worn equipment. This gripe too, while it has some legitimacy, has been around so long that it has become a point of pride with Marines that they fight better than anyone else with antiquated gear.

This series has value for the viewer. Wright successfully puts you into the heads of the grunts who are fighting the war. Unlike the failed scene in Heartbreak Ridge in which Marines get somber and introspective when told that they are going into Grenada to fight, the reality is better portrayed in Generation Kill. Whenever highly trained, motivated soldiers or Marines – such as the First Recon unit, are alerted for a fight they engage the prospect with enthusiasm. Wright captures this attitude precisely in this first episode.

The unfortunate lack of bigger-picture perspective ultimately mars the final product and is sure to confuse civilian viewers who may mentally turn the Marines into victims and the senior leaders into mindless robots. Neither is factually correct, and the grunts on the ground will be the first to express contempt at any attempt to victimize them.
Lt. Col. Gordon Cucullu has been an Army Green Beret lieutenant colonel, as well as a writer, popular speaker, business executive and farmer. His most recent book is Separated at Birth, about North and South Korea. He returned recently from an embed with soldiers in Iraq and has launched a web site called Support American Soldiers to assist traveling soldiers.

Ellie

[sgtrock1970]

True to form regarding supplies. When in Nam there were sundries packages which contained cigeretttes, candies, cigars and other items. We usually recieved one per platoon very seldom. But we met up with a doggy unit and every squad got one once a week. So the Corps hasn't changed.

[Pete0331]

Is the term Aye, aye sir not used anymore? Just wondering.

It still is but is used when formally speaking. It doesn't come up in idle converation as much as it used to.

[ZSKI]

Depends what boot camp you went to. Apparently MCRDSD says aye, aye sir. And MCRDPI says aye sir.

[egbutler1]

I went to MCRD SD and always said "Aye, Aye, Sir" and thats what I said when taking orders from an officer for 4 years. I had no idea that it might be different on the other coast.


Yeah I'm a SD Marine, you had your sand fleas but I had the mountains. LOL I think thats how the argument went while I was in.

[Brewer0311]

.
Yeah I'm a SD Marine, you had your sand fleas but I had the mountains. LOL I think thats how the argument went while I was in.

I think it was we had sand fleas and you guys had your movie special effects :marine:.

[jinelson]

Play nice bro's!

Jim

[Brewer0311]

Play nice bro's!

Jim


Ah I'm just kidding.

Back to the actual subject of the thread. Not too bad of a show. I checked it out last night for the first time. Seems pretty accurate to some of the Marines I know.

The racial part I didn't understand. I've never met any Marines that were racist. At least not openly to where we knew it. Probably wouldn't have ended to well for him if it was out in the open. Karma is a ***** :D

[nptwildcat]

I really like the show. But the redneck would have been beat down in my time. We razzed each other, but that's way over the line!

[KABAR7]

If you've got Verizon FIOS for your TV you can search for it. It's listed under video's on demand and you can watch the first episode for free. I liked it, and it was realistic. I completely forgot about how everyone refused to eat charms.


Charms make it rain, dawg!

They took them out of the MRE's sometime between 2003 and 2005

Probably because CHARMS caused the insurgency.

[Brewer0311]

Charms make it rain, dawg!

They took them out of the MRE's sometime between 2003 and 2005

Probably because CHARMS caused the insurgency.


My unit has gotten some of the MREs in the past 6 months that had charms in them. Thank God for the shelf life :D

[yellowwing]

Ah I'm just kidding.

Back to the actual subject of the thread. Not too bad of a show. I checked it out last night for the first time. Seems pretty accurate to some of the Marines I know.

The racial part I didn't understand. I've never met any Marines that were racist. At least not openly to where we knew it. Probably wouldn't have ended to well for him if it was out in the open. Karma is a ***** :D
In 83-89 neither did I. We were busy razzing each other on who was Sat and Unsat.

I've so far missed the second episode on this. Is there some action this time?

[Brewer0311]

In 83-89 neither did I. We were busy razzing each other on who was Sat and Unsat.

I've so far missed the second episode on this. Is there some action this time?


There was a little bit. It was definately better than the first episode to me. Watching the sniper do some work was a nice touch.

[sgtrock1970]

Pop tarts and charms, long way from pound cake , peaches and ham and mother****ers

[jetdawgg]

There was a little bit. It was definately better than the first episode to me. Watching the sniper do some work was a nice touch.

I agree, that was really cool:usmc:

[usmchauer]

Charms make it rain, dawg!

They took them out of the MRE's sometime between 2003 and 2005

Probably because CHARMS caused the insurgency.



:D I almost fell outta my chair on that one!

I was over at Pendleton to see a friend the other day. We ran into a LtCol that knew "The Godfather". Said that is exactly how he talks. :thumbup:

[thewookie]

Do you have to have HBO to watch this?

Or is there another way....:confused:

[ZSKI]

Now im not telling you to bend or outright violate the laws. But if you have a program that reads torrent files such as vuze or bit-torrent then say go to thepiratebay.org/ then search for generation kill. You download the torrent and open it this will initiate a download of said show and well given some time you will have a copy on your computer.

[2ndCEBSupply]

This movie described exactly how we act especially junior marines (just a little bit overacted though). Im glad that America can see how we keep our spirit up in a desert. The way its made is that ppl are not feeling sorry for us just trying to relate what we go through or have gone through ecvery marine i have talked to loves it.

[SlingerDun]

Do you have to have HBO to watch this?HBO mini-series same same Sopranos, out on DVD soon enough, capiche?http://www.leatherneck.com/forums/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Pete0331]

Do you have to have HBO to watch this?

Or is there another way....:confused:

Shoot me a PM, I know another way.

[yellowwing]

I finally saw Episode 2. Pretty good sniper work. Scared the **** out of the rpg hadji before he was smoked.

After rolling through the hot ville, the joy and celebration of everyone living through a firefight was good to see.

[Pete0331]

I remember the road being wider in Naseriya.
I remember the corpse van.
Anybody remember the pizza hadji the entire I MEF ran over, with only the one finger sticking up?
Good times.

[thedrifter]

Brian Patrick Wade gets his moment in HBO’s ‘Generation Kill’
By Mark A. Perigard | Sunday, July 27, 2008 | http://www.bostonherald.com | Television News


In HBO’s miniseries “Generation Kill,” young Marines have their beliefs about combat challenged as they invade Iraq.

The same happened offscreen for actor Brian Patrick Wade.

Wade plays Capt. Craig “Encino Man” Schwetje. In tonight’s episode (at 9 p.m.), Encino Man orders an artillery strike and inadvertently jeopardizes his own men.

“When this whole thing started, I was pro-war - and now as it has dragged on and on, it has become less and less about what I thought it was,” Wade said. He recounted some of the difficulties the Marines had to deal with when they first arrived in Iraq, such as overzealous commanders and the lack of appropriate equipment, all detailed in the miniseries.

“I don’t think pulling everyone out is the answer, but I don’t know how we can continue to lose men. It’s one of those things, we’re going to have to be there for a long time occupying it to make things right.”

Working with real-life Marines who served as advisers on the show, Wade came to a new appreciation for the soldiers who fight in Iraq.

“They hold themselves to a different standard and a different sense and code of honor than many other Americans do,” he said.

“Generation Kill” is based on the best-selling nonfiction book of the same name by journalist Evan Wright.

Along with his fellow actors, Wade spent six months in Africa filming the miniseries. Each episode took approximately one month to film, in part because of the intricate combat sequences, he said.

As part of his preparation for the role, Wade spent three days in a boot camp for officers, where he underwent weapons training.

Wade has been acting professionally for about five years and may be best known to audiences for his guest spots on CBS’ “Big Bang Theory,” in which he plays Penny’s imposing ex-boyfriend. His appearances there have been so well-received that producers have promised to bring him back in the new season, he said.

For “Generation Kill,” Wade was very much aware he was playing a real person. He declined the opportunity to meet the real Encino Man, reasoning that he wanted to play the man depicted in the book.

“I didn’t want to form any biases against him. I wanted to play him the way he should be played.

“Leadership is not his strong suit. With Bravo Company, he makes a lot of bad decisions, but not maliciously. He just doesn’t know any better.”

The miniseries has been met with generally positive reviews.

“I don’t know how the military will embrace it,” Wade said. “I know they won’t be able to deny it.”


Ellie

[thedrifter]

The incredible story behind "Generation Kill"



You see it on the screen, and it seems very realistic: A group of the U.S. military's elite fighting forces, the First Reconnaissance Battalion of Marines, operating behind enemy lines in the opening days of the Iraq War in HBO's gritty new drama miniseries, "Generation Kill."

What you probably don't know is how amazingly realistic it is — and what one journalist went through in order to write the story that the creators of "The Wire" would then convert into the television event of the summer.

At the time, the invasion of Iraq in 2003 seemed like a high-tech race to Baghdad, with bunker busters and 3-D maps and real-time video from sat phones.

But in Evan Wright’s mesmerizing book Generation Kill — and the faithful adaptation of it currently airing on HBO — the war plays out more like Hannibal’s army on elephants: slower, dustier and a whole lot bloodier than what we saw on the news.

On assignment for Rolling Stone, Wright was an embedded reporter with the Marines of Bravo Company, 1st Reconnaissance Battalion, who acted as the “spear tip” of the invasion. Severing all contact with the outside world, Wright joined the fewer than 400 men who lumbered northward in aging Humvees toward the Iraqi capital, often ahead of all other U.S. forces, taking on and returning enemy fire through 16 firefights.

Despite the constant peril — the chilling ambush that opens the book would prove typical — Wright stayed embedded and won the Marines’ trust. He kept copious notes, in pen. When there was a break in the action, he would interview others, triangulating their recollections to create vivid and accurate accounts of what they were going through.

The first Marine he bonded with was Lt. Nathaniel Fick, the platoon’s Dartmouth-educated commander. Wright had studied medieval history, and Fick, who was interested in antiquity, would soon become Virgil to his Dante, guiding the author through the rings of Hell en route to Baghdad.

“Every time (the convoy stopped), I would get out and go to Fick and say, ‘What happened?’ ” Wright says. “As a result, my book is written with an artificial omniscience.”

Wright says Fick made one request of him, and it’s a line heard in this second episode of “Generation Kill”: Turning to the reporter (played by Lee Tergesen), Fick (Stark Sands) says simply, “Write this as you see it.”

The author wrote down what he heard as well, and these conversations among the men of Bravo Company are what endear them to the reader. Postmodern accounts of war, like the novel The Farther Shore by Kansas Citian Matthew Eck, plunge the reader into the disorienting fog of war.

Wright, by contrast, calls attention to the community formed by the Marines of Bravo Company, primarily through storytelling and shared experience. The fog, or dust cloud, is still there, but it often seems unimportant to these expertly trained killers, who pride themselves on being utterly prepared for anything.

When Wright got home, he transcribed 1,000 pages of material from his notes and wrote “The Killer Elite,” a three-part series for the magazine. Empathy combined with hard work and the luxury of magazine deadlines resulted in an instant classic of war journalism.

“Not only did he have the time to construct a coherent and almost artistic narrative,” an admiring reviewer later wrote, “but also he was writing for a publication willing to print the unexpurgated musings of the Marines. Wright could include the homoerotic joking, their violent fantasies and even their discussions of bowel movements.”

“The Killer Elite” was optioned by HBO, which also bought the rights to Wright’s book-length version. Yet it would be two years before the story of this new band of brothers would find its way into the hands of producers who were ideally suited — perhaps even predestined — to bring it to the small screen.

Through storytelling and shared experience, HBO’s “Generation Kill” focuses on the community of the Marines of Bravo Company, 1st Reconnaissance Battalion. Jonah Lotan, who plays Doc, helps a child in this scene.

David Simon had just wrapped the third season of “The Wire,” another gritty study of an American subculture, when Kary Antholis, a senior vice president of HBO Films, offered him Generation Kill.

A former newspaper writer, Simon had read In the Company of Soldiers by former KC Star reporter Rick Atkinson, but hadn’t heard of Wright’s book until then. He immediately took to it and told the author at their first meeting that he wanted to reproduce it as closely as possible.

“We’re going to make your book if we can,” he said.

Ed Burns, Simon’s co-executive producer, broke down the book into scripts while Simon involved Wright in writing, casting and the training of actors on location in Africa.

Both men credit Eric Kocher — who served five tours in Iraq and Afghanistan and was hired as a key military adviser for the TV series— with ensuring the final product was both accurate and realistic from a Marine’s point of view. (Above: Simon, Kocher and Burns on the set in Africa.)

During the intensive mixing of the series’ multilayered audio track, Kocher wrote much of the radio chatter and suggested other lines that could be dropped into the background (“Semper Gumby — always flexible!”).

As the final episodes were in post-production, Kocher started firing off increasingly antagonistic e-mails complaining about the so-called light armored vehicles. They were not actual “LAVs,” in fact, but South African-made trucks that the producers tried to pass off as LAVs on screen. Finally, Kocher declared that the fake LAVs made him “want to vomit.”

Freedom isn’t free — nor, it turns out, is verisimilitude. HBO spent $210,000 to have the vehicles digitally altered to look like the real deals.

I’m at poolside with Kocher, Wright, Simon, P.J. Ransone (one of the actors) and another First Recon member, Jeff Carisalez, who advised on the series.

They’re sitting around a table, eating, drinking, telling stories on one another and laughing uproariously. Having gone through unbelievable violence together, both inflicted and suffered, these men now proudly belong to the P-T-S fraternity. (“To me,” says Kocher, “it’s not a disorder. It’s just P-T-S: post-traumatic stress.”)

As the storytelling gets louder, Wright leans over my recorder.

“Strange as it sounds,” he says, “when I was in Iraq, we were up on this one bridge about 20 kilometers from any other U.S. forces. We were totally surrounded. There were only about 50 of us. And — it was fun. I don’t know why. Maybe it’s the way we’re wired as humans, or as men.”

Ellie

[sgtrock1970]

Still good so far.

[outlaw3179]

I love this show. Its pretty good to go.

[chicoluv USMC]

Yep I can't complain ,And thank God that those marines survive their Tour .
Pound cake & charms ? wat happen ? I wonder if they know wat a John wayne was ?

[yellowwing]

Episode three is out?

[chicoluv USMC]

Episode three is out?

yup Godfather wants his airfield .:tank: :tank: :tank:

[yellowwing]

yup Godfather wants his airfield .
I like Godfather so far. Sending his BN through hostile country with no air cover and his only real worry is dissapointing General Mattis! :thumbup:
http://iraq-kill-maim.org/ik31/pict17.jpg

[jetdawgg]

Sounds like the Army took it on the chin in episode 3. Lotta choppers lost

[FistFu68]

:beer: TAINTED LOVE :beer: :banana:

[Pete0331]

I like Godfather so far. Sending his BN through hostile country with no air cover and his only real worry is dissapointing General Mattis! :thumbup:
http://iraq-kill-maim.org/ik31/pict17.jpg

Have you seen part 3? There were to many un-calculated risks.

[thedrifter]

Generation Kill Episode 4 Review <br />
By Keith Uhlich <br />
<br />
A &quot;combat jack&quot; is a masturbation session on the battlefield, half-private/half-public due to the unpredictable nature of the terrain (physical...

[thedrifter]

"Baghdad High": Teen life at war

By Paul Farhi

The Washington Post

Little by little, HBO — yes, HBO — has carved a niche as the TV home of some of the most compelling programs about the Iraq war. From the gripping 2006 documentary "Baghdad ER" to the epic (if little watched) Marines-in-combat miniseries, "Generation Kill," the network best known for Larry David and "Sex and the City" has shown viewers a few things about Iraq that they're not seeing anywhere else.

Now comes "Baghdad High"(airing at 9 tonight), which does no harm to HBO's burgeoning war cred. The 90-minute documentary doesn't say much about the larger issues facing Iraq, but it does capture some small and captivating human stories.

"High" focuses on a group largely ignored in previous works about the war, teenagers. Its point of view is literally that of four Iraqi high-school boys, who spent a year pointing borrowed video cameras at their friends, family, school and themselves. The finished documentary is the distillation of some 300 hours of self-taped material.

The film's time frame is the boys' senior year, 2006-07, which turns out to have been a particularly harrowing period. As the boys trudge through classes (at a school that appears to have all the charm of an abandoned prison), the world just beyond their school walls smolders and quakes. Saddam Hussein is tried and executed. Civil war looms. Violence is a given. Responding to the mounting chaos, the United States ships in an additional 30,000 troops.

The film's director-producers, Ivan O'Mahoney and Laura Winter, were also fortunate to have found some appealing subjects. The four buddies — Ali, Hayder, Anmar and baby-faced Mohammad — are thoughtful, polite, likable kids. Although they come from Sunni, Shia, Christian and Kurdish families, there isn't a hint of sectarian rivalry or animosity.

Indeed, they mostly struggle to be like teenagers everywhere. They listen to American rap music (one boy while studying the Koran), play basketball and soccer, roughhouse or just hang out (curiously absent from their lives, or perhaps just the film: girls, girlfriends, or any sense of their romantic interests).

Problem is, they happen to live in what one boy describes as "the most dangerous city on Earth." You don't see much of Iraq's violence in "High," but you surely feel its gravity and their dread. Every one of the boys' activities, no matter how mundane, seems to be a terrifying adventure. Visiting a friend who lives a few hundred yards away involves running a potential gantlet of kidnappers and snipers; getting to school on time means navigating military checkpoints. Before a big exam, teachers frisk their students for explosives.

Early on, Anmar grows anxious that his girlfriend (never seen) hasn't called or texted him in a few days. His hangdog look suggests he's been dumped. But it soon becomes clear that he isn't worried that she has met someone else. He's worried that she's been murdered or kidnapped.

These larger forces keep pressing in, twisting the kids' lives this way and that. With Iraq's economy a shambles, Hayder's father loses his job, bringing financial hardship to his family. Relatives from other parts of the country take refuge in some of the boys' homes, testing everyone's patience. Ali and his family go the other way. They flee Baghdad to live with relatives in the peaceful Kurdish north, leaving Ali's best friend, Mohammad, heartbroken ("Why, God?" he asks). Later, a bored Ali checks in from his pleasant new home in Erbil, saying he misses "the action" in Baghdad.

The filmmakers reserve much of their screen time for Mohammad. It's clear why: A short, roly-poly kid with an endearing smile, Mohammad has the most expressive emotional range of the four friends, from his despair over Ali's departure to his tender concern for a household mouse he "adopts."

Aside from his physical survival, the big question for Mohammad is whether his mother can track down his long-absent dad. She needs his signature on nationality papers for their son. As this subplot unfolds, it becomes apparent that more than just record-keeping is at stake; the papers will enable Mohammad to go to college and to get a passport — in essence, to have a chance at a future.

Ellie

[Thompson_AllenB]

:usmc:I find the incompetence of the chain of command the E-9; the platoon leaders, the company commander; the battalion commander; and even the regimental CO, I think we saw the 1st MARDIV’s CO in there too, to be somewhat remarkable. These Grunts appears more like 3rd MAW air-wing POG’s than recon.

I saw the first two shows, and said maybe.
The last two put me in mind a diddy-boping anti-war movie of an army unit in Viet Nam.

Do these guys really still stand behind this movies accuracy?

You know they killed the DI in "Born to Kill" Full Metal Jacket, but that was understood to be just movie-stuff and epitomized every boot's dream of killing their tormenter. :thumbdown

Not real, but good theater. This is (I hope) just more of the same Hollywood BS…

[sgtrock1970]

Don't know about accuracy but still better than reality shows(which I don't watch any way)- Life's like that ( corporate, military, goverment),everything is run on the Peter Plus, Plus, Plus, principle. People are promoted three levels above their incompetence. Still pretty good show. Hey Bros it's just a show written by a writer from Rolling Stone. Keep that in perspective. Enjoy or not. SF

[Petz]

the Dilbert theory is that you get promoted to the level of your incompetence.

[Thompson_AllenB]

Did he also say that was exactly how stupid he is, too?
In my day officers and senior NCOs looked out after their men.
These guys look like typical Eighth Army troops in Korea, or ditty-boppers from Viet Nam. Perhaps they watched too much of “Heartbreak ridge.” That was a recon outfit too.

[sgtrock1970]

Maybe that's the way the new Corps is. But I doubt it. From a Vietnam veteran NCO's perspective, you saw alot of stupid **** up the ladder and usually that **** is running down on you and your troops but that's life.

[Travbabble]

Try this website out if you want to watch it online

CLICK ME (http://tv-links.cc/tv/generation-kill.htm)

[Travbabble]

Fyi, the real godfather

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0AtCjgIJrY

[Petz]

Did he also say that was exactly how stupid he is, too?
In my day officers and senior NCOs looked out after their men.
These guys look like typical Eighth Army troops in Korea, or ditty-boppers from Viet Nam. Perhaps they watched too much of “Heartbreak ridge.” That was a recon outfit too.


you sir, are truely old Corps!! no cross rifles!! I am thoroughly impressed... honestly:usmc::flag::iwo:

Thank you for you hard work and dedication.

[Thompson_AllenB]

the Dilbert theory is that you get promoted to the level of your incompetence.
The "Peter Principle"

That is a civilian concept, where you can change jobs among other things.
In the Marines that will get you and your men killed.
If I had seen this HOB flick before I enlisted, I would have joined the Girl Scouts in preference… I really don’t like it and I don’t understand the several Marines in it that apparently endorse its tripe.:evilgrin:

[Petz]

I've only heard it in the dilbert comic strip.... thanks for the info though!!! semper fi brother.

[thedrifter]

Conditions extreme in making of ‘Kill'

Terry Morrow
Scripps Howard News Service

Several months after his tour of duty with the HBO miniseries “Generation Kill,” Lee Tergesen sounds a little post-traumatic.

“The unknown freaked me out,” he says when talking about why he was hesitant about doing the project. “It was bizarre.”

It was one of the reasons he accepted, then declined and then accepted again the chance to play an embedded journalist in the show about soldiers in the Iraq war’s first phase. “Kill” often dwells on the day-to-day life: the loneliness, uneasiness, shifting morale and anger.

The seven-hour miniseries (airing at 9 p.m. Sundays) is based on the book of the same name that was written by Evan Wright, who detailed his experiences. Tergesen plays Wright, who was a fish out of water among the soldiers.

“He wasn’t out to expose anything,” Tergesen, 43, says. “He’s telling human stories. He is fascinated by the extremes.”

Wright wasn’t accepted quickly. The soldiers took offense to a reporter watching them and, perhaps, taking their experiences out of context. Through his eyes, viewers see what war can be firsthand.

For Tergesen, who is used to dark situations since playing Tobias Beecher on HBO’s prison drama “Oz,” “Kill” was a bit more than he thought he wanted to do.

“I talked to everyone I knew about it,” he says. “They all kept saying, ‘Do it. Do it,’ but I just couldn’t bring myself to (settle on) it. I was reminded this is why I am an actor – to have these kinds of experiences and to tell these stories.”

“Kill” took seven months to make and was shot on location in Namibia, Mozambique and South Africa. “It was an arduous journey,” Tergesen says. “I got there in the beginning of June and got back a week before Christmas.”

Actors attended a boot camp and learned the history behind the Marines and recon missions.

Shooting had its intensity, with some scenes including actors as corpses and children playing war victims without legs.

The days were hot and draining. Tergesen and the rest of the cast were “in the middle of nowhere” in South Africa. Even Internet connections were difficult to come by.

He was cut off from his friends and family, working in an unforgiving environment. Tergesen had his good days and his bad ones.

He says he was “unclear” on how important his role would be. Giving up months of his life for a role that might be relegated to the background wasn’t exactly inspiring.

“When I got to Africa and finally met Evan, that’s when everything clicked with me,” he says. “He’s like a big puppy dog. He’s funny. He’s a little clumsy. He’s intelligent. That opened up a lot for me to play with. It allowed me to open up.”

In the end, Tergesen is glad he forced himself to do “Kill.”

“It turned out all right,” he says. “Now, I’m glad I said I would do it.”

Ellie

[thedrifter]

Generation Kill, "A Burning Dog": A bridge too pothole-riddled
by Alan Sepinwall/The Star-Ledger
Sunday August 10, 2008, 10:10 PM

Spoilers for the latest episode of "Generation Kill" coming up just as soon as I enter my Ferrari into a demolition derby...

"This is why we're here." -Encino Man

We're in the home stretch now, and "A Burning Dog" presents the longest, most thrilling/frightening combat sequence yet, as First Recon gets ambushed on a bridge at nightfall, saved only by the Spidey-sense of Iceman Colbert. But even though the firefight, shot predominantly from the point of view of the Marines' night vision goggles and target scopes, was impressive, what really stands out in this episode is the arc for Lt. Fick.

(And allow me to pause for a moment to warn you that this post is going to be about as political as I get on this blog. When you're discussing a docudrama about an ongoing war, one that pointedly and repeatedly criticizes the tactics and philosophies behind it, it becomes hard to discuss it without in some way agreeing or disagreeing -- and therefore attacking or defending the architects of said war.)

Early on, after he awesomely pulls rank on Casey Kasem ("And nobody f-ing spoke to you!") and accepts Encino Man's peace offering, he reluctantly turns into a spokesman for the same messed-up command hierarchy that he's been trying to protect his men from since the invasion began. Even as he's doing it, even as he's shutting down complaints from Colbert and the others, he knows he's making a tough choice, maybe the wrong choice, to honor the olive branch from a superior officer. But if he's had questions about command from the start of the invasion, he's never questioned the invasion itself... until Meesh explains about the Syrian student who entered Iraq after the invasion started with "jihad" listed on his passport as his reason for entering the country.

Encino Man is too thick-headed to understand what that means, but Fick gets it, asking Gunny Wynn, "Isn't this the exact opposite of what we wanted to have happen?"

Early in the episode, one of the Marines complains that "We keep making the same f-ing mistakes." All of them in some way stem from arrogance, from the leaders of this invasion -- whether it's someone at Encino Man's level, or Godfather's, or Rumsfeld's, or President Bush himself -- believing beyond a shadow of a doubt that they know what they're doing, and that they can impose their will on others to achieve the result they want. And just as no one put enough thought into how we would go about rebuilding Iraq after we deposed Saddam, it never occurred to anyone that, if the terrorists claimed to hate us for meddling too much in other people's affairs, then invading a sovereign nation (albeit one run by a very bad man) might actually generate more anti-US sentiments, not less.

While Fick is realizing the dangers of being a true believer going against other true believers, the episode's other major character movement contrasts how Iceman is holding up under the strains of the mission with how Hasser the turret gunner is taking things. As the man riding up top (and a mid-mission swap for Garza at that), Hasser hasn't gotten as much screen time as the other four guys in the Humvee, but all we need to know here is that he's too tired to function properly and too wired to sleep. Colbert can take a dump tactically, can get tiny amounts of sleep when the opportunity arises, and can summon enough focus in spite of the fatigue to foil the ambush before it even started. Hasser's not superhuman like that; he's all too human, a point brought painfully home when he shoots and kills the driver of a car at the roadblock without waiting for Brad's gas grenade plan to work. It's not that Hasser is necessarily wrong, but that nobody should be asked to make such a fine judgment call under these physical conditions, and yet that's what the Marines have to do all the time. Even Colbert quickly recognizes that there's no point in chewing him out, that this is unfortunate fallout from the nature and stresses of their mission, but for a second there, the Iceman facade cracks, badly.

Some other thoughts on "A Burning Dog":

• Major Eckloff, the officer who marches onto the bridge and gives Encino Man the football-themed pep talk, is played by Ben Busch, whom "Wire" fans might recognize as Officer Colicchio, the hot-headed Western district narcotics cop with the awful haircut. Busch actually served as a Marine for two tours in Iraq, rising to the rank of Lt. Colonel. Note that Eckloff can tell how badly Encino Man is handling things, but rather then chew him out, he gives him a pep talk in a language (football) that he knows the guy can understand. That's something resembling genuine leadership, and it's the kind of thing First Recon could use a lot more of.

• Also note that Eckloff is able to shut down Captain America with little more than a stare. Even though he's heeded Kocher's warning about the AK's (he gathers up a bunch and then tosses them into the river), he seems more out of control than ever.

• I like the moment where the reporter comes to Colbert with what he thinks is a brilliant, left-field observation about where the mortar fire has been coming from, and Colbert politely but firmly explains that he knows what he's doing, thank you very much.

• Despite all the heavy fire they've taken, Pappy having to be casevac'ed because of his foot is the only real loss the Marines have suffered so far. As Pappy himself notes earlier in the episode, they're so good at what they do that they're preventing command from realizing what asinine decisions they keep making.

What did everybody else think?


Ellie

[silverdollar]

The "Peter Principle"

That is a civilian concept, where you can change jobs among other things.
In the Marines that will get you and your men killed.
If I had seen this HOB flick before I enlisted, I would have joined the Girl Scouts in preference… I really don’t like it and I don’t understand the several Marines in it that apparently endorse its tripe.:evilgrin:


Sgt. Thompson,I agree with you 100%. what the hell happened to the Marine Corp?

[thedrifter]

Science coaxes clues to mystery frozen in time

By MARY PEMBERTON, Associated Press
First published: Monday, August 18, 2008
ANCHORAGE, Alaska -- Nine years of sleuthing, advanced DNA science and cutting-edge forensic techniques have finally put a name to a mummified hand and arm found in an Alaska glacier.

The remains belong to Francis Joseph Van Zandt, a 36-year-old merchant marine from Roanoke, Va., who was on a plane rumored to contain a cargo of gold when it smashed into the side of a mountain 60 years ago. Thirty people died in the crash.

"This is the oldest identification of fingerprints by post-mortem remains," said latent fingerprint expert Mike Grimm Sr. in a teleconference Friday, during which the two pilots who found the remains, genetic scientists and genealogists talked about the discovery.

Twenty-four merchant marines and six crewmen were flying from China to New York City on March 12, 1948, when the DC-4 slammed into Mount Sanford, perhaps because the pilots were blinded by an unusually intense aurora borealis that night. The wreckage disappeared into the glacier within a few days.

The DC-4 was thought to be carrying gold because the merchant marines had just delivered an oil tanker to Shanghai. Though no gold was found, the two commercial airline pilots who discovered the wreckage found themselves on a scientific adventure filled with high-tech sleuthing.

The pilots, Kevin McGregor and Marc Millican, discovered the mummified remains in 1999 while recovering artifacts to identify the wreckage they had found two years earlier.

The Alaska Department of Public Safety attempted to match fingerprints from the remains to numerous databases but came up empty because the details of the fingerprints were unclear.

A few pieces of the arm were sent to a commercial DNA laboratory. However, no data could be obtained because the remains, having been in a frozen and dehydrated state for decades, were too degraded.

In 2006, Dr. Odile Loreille at the Armed Forces DNA Identification Laboratory in Rockville, Md., developed new methods that allowed her to read the hand and arm's mitochondrial DNA.

In the meantime, Edward Robinson, a professor of forensic science at George Washington University, rehydrated the fingers to raise the fingerprint swirls. Special imaging techniques then were used to produce a complete set of fully legible fingerprints.

On Sept. 6, 2007, the prints were compared with some kept at the National Marine Center in Arlington, Va., and a match was found.

Brief spoilers for the penultimate episode of "Generation Kill" coming up just as soon as I guzzle a milkshake...

I'll be honest: this is another week where I feel like I'm running out of things to say. Again, I'm enjoying "Generation Kill" enormously, but as I said a few weeks back, each episode is very much of a piece, and I feel like we've hit most of the major themes by now. I imagine I'll be more inspired to write about the seventh and final episode (which I haven't watched yet), given that it covers the Marines' time in Iraq post-"Mission Accomplished," but this week I'm going to keep it brief and just highlight a few things I either liked or was interested in:

• Colbert's brief moment of Zen -- sprinting around camp doing his best impression of a bird in flight -- was beautiful, a moment of pure joy from a guy who usually carries himself like a machine. In particular, I loved how, after he said "Better now," it was like he flipped a switch and turned back into the Iceman.

• Sgt. Major Sixta returns after being absent for several episodes, and his mangled pronunciations and grammar -- "You inappropriating your chemical filtration device by attempting fornication with! Jesus, do I have to tell you not to dee-secretate your mask for perversions!" -- made me giggle like usual.

• For the most part, we've seen Godfather through Fick's eyes, and it hasn't been the most flattering view, as Fick clearly worries that Godfather is putting his men in danger solely to impress General Matis. But Ferrando's conversation with Colbert -- who, like a lot of the other men, really wants another mission and is pleased to hear he might get one -- shows us another angle on the man.

• They certainly haven't held back in showing Captain America's meltdown, have they? When I interviewed the real Kocher before the miniseries debuted, he said that people ask him all the time whether Cap was really that crazy, and he says that both the book and the miniseries leave out a whole lot of other behavior even more bizarre, possibly because no one would believe it.

What did everybody else think?

Ellie

[SlingerDun]

If I had seen this HOB flick before I enlisted, I would have joined the Girl Scouts in preference…I felt similar as an urchin watching Gomer Pyle prime time on Thursday? nights. I suppose i knew it was acting but i had to ask pops: Is the Marines like that? Naw kid, thats mostly Hollywood, every episode needs to be rehearsed and well articulated in story form or nobody will tune in next week. Sumthin like that.http://www.leatherneck.com/forums/images/icons/icon6.gif

--->Dave

[Thompson_AllenB]

Conditions extreme in making of ‘Kill'

Terry Morrow
Scripps Howard News Service

Several months after his tour of duty with the HBO miniseries “Generation Kill,” Lee Tergesen sounds a little post-traumatic.

“The unknown freaked me out,” he says when talking about why he was hesitant about doing the project. “It was bizarre.”

It was one of the reasons he accepted, then declined and then accepted again the chance to play an embedded journalist in the show about soldiers in the Iraq war’s first phase. “Kill” often dwells on the day-to-day life: the loneliness, uneasiness, shifting morale and anger.

The seven-hour miniseries (airing at 9 p.m. Sundays) is based on the book of the same name that was written by Evan Wright, who detailed his experiences. Tergesen plays Wright, who was a fish out of water among the soldiers.

“He wasn’t out to expose anything,” Tergesen, 43, says. “He’s telling human stories. He is fascinated by the extremes.”

Wright wasn’t accepted quickly. The soldiers took offense to a reporter watching them and, perhaps, taking their experiences out of context. Through his eyes, viewers see what war can be firsthand.

For Tergesen, who is used to dark situations since playing Tobias Beecher on HBO’s prison drama “Oz,” “Kill” was a bit more than he thought he wanted to do.

“I talked to everyone I knew about it,” he says. “They all kept saying, ‘Do it. Do it,’ but I just couldn’t bring myself to (settle on) it. I was reminded this is why I am an actor – to have these kinds of experiences and to tell these stories.”

“Kill” took seven months to make and was shot on location in Namibia, Mozambique and South Africa. “It was an arduous journey,” Tergesen says. “I got there in the beginning of June and got back a week before Christmas.”

Actors attended a boot camp and learned the history behind the Marines and recon missions.

Shooting had its intensity, with some scenes including actors as corpses and children playing war victims without legs.

The days were hot and draining. Tergesen and the rest of the cast were “in the middle of nowhere” in South Africa. Even Internet connections were difficult to come by.

He was cut off from his friends and family, working in an unforgiving environment. Tergesen had his good days and his bad ones.

He says he was “unclear” on how important his role would be. Giving up months of his life for a role that might be relegated to the background wasn’t exactly inspiring.

“When I got to Africa and finally met Evan, that’s when everything clicked with me,” he says. “He’s like a big puppy dog. He’s funny. He’s a little clumsy. He’s intelligent. That opened up a lot for me to play with. It allowed me to open up.”

In the end, Tergesen is glad he forced himself to do “Kill.”

“It turned out all right,” he says. “Now, I’m glad I said I would do it.”

Ellie
It has been a very long six hours, I and no one has said: “Don’t call be sir, I work for a living!” perhaps tomorrow night? That after all, is a standard Army phrase. You never hear that crap from Marines, because Marines respect their officers and know they work just as hard as any private. I’m not saying there are no dumb officers in the Corps, just that this Recon Battalion must have had every one of them assigned to it for this campaign.

[yellowwing]

Marines,

My name is Shannon Coleman. I am a journalist for a newspaper in Lafayette, Louisiana.

I have been watching and reading Reporter's tale of his time with First Recon five years ago. It has come to my attention that one of the Marines featured in the book/HBO series might be from our area.

We'd like to find him, if he is willing. Although I imagine finding a Recon Marine, especially if he doesn't want to found, will be impossible.

We'd like to do a story about this film/book, especially about the film, as it is unlike any other, and fascinating to those of us who will never experience such a thing (I am a female and am not a veteran; I can't even begin to imagine what you all go through on a daily basis).

We'd like to try to find James Chaffin, who was a corporal at the time.

If Marine Chaffin reads this, please contact me. Or if anyone involved in the film reads this, please contact me. I will check back here, or you may e-mail me at shanleighcoleman@gmail.com.

I have a great deal of respect for all of you, and thank you for what you do. You do your jobs, and you do them well.

Shan

Wow! Best of luck to you.

[thedrifter]

Generation Kill, "Bomb in the Garden": Iceman vs. Captain America
by Alan Sepinwall/The Star-Ledger
Sunday August 24, 2008, 10:05 PM

Spoilers for the "Generation Kill" finale coming up just as soon as I score some valium...

When I interviewed the "Generation Kill" producers shortly before it premiered, David Simon said something interesting that didn't make it into the final story. While talking about the thematic similarities between "Generation Kill" and "The Wire" -- specifically, how both shows give their loyalties to the footsoldiers on the ground, and eye their bosses with extreme suspicion -- he said, "To be fair, it would have been a different book if (Wright) had hung with Ferrando."

"Bomb in the Garden" provides some hints of what that book might have been like. We get the throwaway moment between Sgt. Major Sixta and Gunny Wynn when Sixta offers to bring up the grooming standard as a way to combat drooping morale. (The men, of course, hated Sixta for ragging on them about their moo-stashes, but it was usually in that Charlie Finley Oakland A's way, where their mutual hatred of an authority figure brought them all together.) More importantly, we get the reporter (who is never, as far as I can tell, referred to by name at any point in the miniseries) doing his exit interview with Godfather. Ferrando suspects that Captain America is probably unfit for combat, but he has the same perspective on Cap's actions that he does on Lt. Fick's -- which is to say that he has to rely on the reports of men below him, and sometimes below those officers -- and if he deals harshly with one, isn't he obligated to deal harshly with the other? Yes, we know Fick is a great leader and Cap is a nutcase, but we're seeing them from a different point of view, and one that's then filtered through Evan Wright and again through Simon, Ed Burns and company.

By the same token, the wanderings of First Recon during their days in Baghdad seem aimless and counter-productive to Fick and Colbert, but there could have been very rational motives behind each of them from the way command saw things. The explanation behind the lack of night patrols wasn't a terrible one; in that environment, who's to say the presence of the U.S. forces at night might not have made things worse, along with getting our guys killed?

But allowing for the possibility of an alternate perspective only goes so far. There's no way to justify punishing Kocher and Redman for the bayonet incident and promptly reinstate the actual bayonet-wielder, Captain America, for instance. And we are, after all, five years removed from the events depicted here, and our military is still over there trying to clean up the mess we made by breaking the country without having a sound plan to immediately begin fixing it.

In that way, "Bomb in the Garden" is more important than all six previous "Generation Kill" chapters put together. The miniseries has been enormously entertaining (even if, as I've said, the "Groundhog Day" nature of the Marines' lives made it tough to blog at times), but in deconstructing how Operation: Iraqi Freedom went wrong, they were all just a lead up to the events depicted here. As an invasion, this was an enormous success; we took down an entire country in three weeks time. As an attempt to promote democracy and discourage terrorism, it's been a dismal failure, for reasons illustrated by First Recons various misadventures in this hour. You can't just leave the unexploded bomb in the garden, because sooner or later somebody's going to blow the thing up, right?

Some specific moments I liked in the finale:

• The Marines' arrival in the cigarette factory, with the silver paper raining down on them like a ticker-tape parade, was a perfect homage to/parody of President Bush's "Mission Accomplished." The war is allegedly over, but the battles are going to keep going for years and years.

• Much as I love the Rick Rubin-produced Johnny Cash "America" albums, they're dangerously close to becoming a cliche for TV show montages. "Sarah Connor Chronicles," of all shows, already used "The Man Comes Around" at the end of its last season, but I'll give "Generation Kill" a pass because the song is such a perfect fit, between the mix of jaunty tune and somber lyrics (a nice match for the show's black comedy and how the Marines often found their greatest joy when matters were at their worst) and the radio squelch at the beginning and end, which matched the miniseres' opening credits and constant stream of radio chatter.

• The home movie, by the way, was a mixture of footage shot by the production and stuff shot by the actual First Recon Marines during the invasion, much of it scrounged up by the real Eric Kocher.

• Kocher, Wright and others have talked about how quiet Ray Person is in the real world when he's had a lot of sleep and isn't guzzling Ripped Fuel. I liked the acknowledgement of that in the moment where Colbert complains that he isn't talking any more.

• Though the themes are very different, the structure of this episode reminded me in many ways of the finale to HBO's other great war miniseries, "Band of Brothers," which also featured odd vignettes about what the company did after the end of the war but before they got sent home. Both episodes even climax with a sporting event, albeit with divergent tones. In "Band," it's a baseball game that provides the Easy Company soldiers an opportunity to exhale and enjoy the beautiful countryside; here, it's a football game that gives the men (particularly Person and Capt. Patterson) an excuse to physically but unofficially vent their frustration with the likes of Encino Man and Fruity Rudy. (Rudy actually hadn't done much in the past to earn Ray's ire, but Ray's rant about high school jocks suggested his explosion had little to do with Rudy himself.)

• Getting back to the nature of perspective, the new edition of Wright's book (the one with the miniseries' cast on the cover) has an afterword filling in what happened to many of these Marines after the invasion. Of particular interest is the revelation that Casey Kasem turned out to be a hero during combat in a later deployment.

• The original Alan Arkin/Peter Falk version of "The In-Laws" was one of my family's favorite movies when I was growing up, and so when the reporter started zig-zagging while running away from the sniper, I immediately started shouting, "Serpentine, Shel! Serpentine!" But for the reporter to then actually quote the scene? Pure pop culture Nirvana. (I had forgotten that bit from the book, thankfully.) Can someone get that clip up on YouTube already? (The only scene I can find is this one.) I'm not sure how funny it is if you haven't watched Falk torment Arkin for the previous hour, but in context it is one of the most hilarious things ever committed to celluloid.

• Throughout, the singalongs have been a real pleasure, but I especially loved Colbert finally relaxing the ban on country music while Ray was asleep -- and that Ray was just awake enough to realize this.

• Another running gag paid off well: Trombley's "You see, Sergeant? We do shoot dogs in Iraq," followed by him defiantly eating some Charms.

What did everybody else think?

Ellie

[silverdollar]

"What did everybody else think?"


I thought that must be the ****bird Bn.:evilgrin:

[SlingerDun]

Enjoyed the football game when you all get to take a shot at whoever's been p*ssing you off for lord knows how long,,,, off the record:marine:

[Shancoleman]

Since a couple of people have contacted me through here, I thought I'd post an update in case anyone was wondering. We are all OK here in Lafayette, LA after Gustav. Some of my friends and their families have home damage and/or are without electricity for god-knows-when, but all safe and sound. We all pray that Ike goes another way.

Although they are not Marines and are not even regular Army, I'm a bit hesitant to post this part but they are military and we appreciate their hard work -- the Guard deserves a pat on the back for helping out.

[HurricaneRJ]

Glad your safe.

[yellowwing]

Enjoyed the football game when you all get to take a shot at whoever's been p*ssing you off for lord knows how long,,,, off the record:marine:
I had a buddy that travelled with the carnival. The last weekend of the tour they had a big BBQ and all you can guzzle. The next day EVERYONE including the gals had black eyes and minor contusions. It was their last chance to settle old scores! :banana:

[yellowwing]

Overall I thought Generation Kill was a pretty entertaining story. Sgt. Iceman was cool. As far as accuracy, you'd have to ask our newer Bros that sweated out the long hours in a hostile zone.

[HurricaneRJ]

I remember SgtMaj. Kent saying that he only watched 15 mintues of the 1st episode and saying "That isn't the Marine Corps". I invite him to look again.

I can't even count how many times, I've heard ******, Cracker, or Wetback as a racial slur, or how many times Marines say. "Hey Johnson, I'll stop by later to suck your dick."

It's all in good fun and nobody takes the **** serious in the grunts. I don't know how it is on the Pog end of things but as a JEW (Junor Enlisted Warrior). I see this all the time.

[Pete0331]

I remember SgtMaj. Kent saying that he only watched 15 mintues of the 1st episode and saying "That isn't the Marine Corps". I invite him to look again.


It's real simple: SgtMaj. Kent is a REMF who didn't spend any of his time in an Infantry unit.

[yellowwing]

JEW, Junor Enlisted Warrior
Now that's funny! And us Super Pogues know from funny! ;)

[SlingerDun]

...Sgt. Iceman was cool....These guys are hardcore livin out here in the desert on beans and rice......you guys b*tch when you dont get a poptart in your MREhttp://www.leatherneck.com/forums/images/icons/icon14.gif

[madsox]

I caught most of two episodes of this - wasn't sure what to expect, since i didn't read the book and it's about a new generation of Marines (I was at PISC in '84, then was straight Reserve for my 10 years. So I'm not a 100% lifer, but still...)

Anyway, you let the "movieland" stuff pass by, and the "wow, a battle, look how cool it is with all the tracers" video parts, and you have what feels like a pretty real picture of the Marines I served with and those I still know.

Not a documentary, for sure, but a good show to help civvies get an idea of what we're about. Hell, it's entertainment, right? It was pretty damned entertaining AND it made me homesick for my days in the green tree suit.

[silverdollar]

I remember SgtMaj. Kent saying that he only watched 15 mintues of the 1st episode and saying "That isn't the Marine Corps". I invite him to look again.

I can't even count how many times, I've heard ******, Cracker, or Wetback as a racial slur, or how many times Marines say. "Hey Johnson, I'll stop by later to suck your dick."

It's all in good fun and nobody takes the **** serious in the grunts. I don't know how it is on the Pog end of things but as a JEW (Junor Enlisted Warrior). I see this all the time.




Trust me, years ago you would not have heard that crap with out some one getting their ass kicked.

[GIrene]

Don't wanna necro-post the crap outta this but I wanted to share a story that amazed me a bit.

First off, personally I like the show and yes I'm a POG/Pogue (or however the heck people are spelling it these days), but we do the same crap in the Wing. The un-pc stuff flies left and right at work and we horseplay when we can get away with it. (Though no one will ever want to hear that). I would say the incompentency of the command aspect comes from the Lance Underground for sure. This guy was riding with the NCOs and Nonrates and hearing mostly from their POV the whole time, until he finally sat down with LtCol Ferrando and actually talked to him and found out there was a method to the madness of not really having a clear cut objective (and supposedly is one of the reasons Gen Mattis's callsign is "Chaos") I think the book outlined that fact pretty well when the writing got there and the series touched upon it. Sadly they didn't say other facts brought out in the book like the ****bird Gunny becoming their Platoon Sergeant and having a total 180 to his leadership (and actually saving a good chunk of their unit) or the fact that the next time they went in they were facing the 2nd/3rd generation baddies (as they call them) and found that the same plan did not work for them in Nasiriyah and the battalion suffered casualties (even SSGT Kocher was wounded once or twice IIRC). Overexaggerations aside, I think its a great show and have had Marine vets (of the 80s and Desert Shield/Storm generation) say that "Those are like the guys I served with."

Now for my interesting story. Since I didn't go home on leave for Christmas (the family was coming to see me in Janauary) I ended up dog sitting for one of my reenactor friends and spend Christmas Eve and Day with other friends from my reenactor unit. On Christmas Eve at one friend's house, his parents had come out from Reno to visit. He is a retired Captain and Vietnam vet. (He served as an interrogation officer but some of his stories has my friend wondering if he was something more.) As we talked about the fact I was a Marine (and he was enamored with the fact I was an NCO, as he said, "If you want something done, tell a Marine Coproral to take care of it.") we eventually got onto the subject of the show and I grit my teeth. "Oh no, this probably won't be good."

And the man looked me right in the eye and said, "I watched it, and I LOVE it! It makes me think we have a tougher and better Marine Corps then when I was in." I was floored speechless. Here's a guy whom I hold in high regards (I put vets and Old Breed Marines on a higher plane then the rest of us service people, especially combat vets, they've done more than most of us will ever know) telling me he actually liked it. So we got into a discussion of why. He thinks that the kids of his generation and mine are very very different, but he says if we're actually smart enough to not be lazy and seize the day, we can achieve so much more because we have had much better upbringings and access to much more education/training/equipment that his fellows could only dream of (like combat training for us REMFs and the ability for everyone to learn to be better combat leaders, etc). And he said the one thing that keeps that going is unlike the Army, the Marine Corps has never lost sight of how to Make Marines and thats what will always set people up for success. In all it was an interesting talk to compare the Corps over 40 years, and I'm actually honored he thinks highly of the current serving generation.

[Thompson_AllenB]

Believe me, too. From 62-66 you would not have heard that crap with out some one getting their ass kicked.

[BR34]

I got to meet the &quot;Godfather&quot; at Pendleton. He was somehow in charge of the Western Division Shooting Competition, and he spoke with us for a few minutes on the first day.

[Gunner 0313]

:flag:I just watched the series last week and thought it was excellent. I thought it was very accurate in it's depiction of the mentality of Marines. Too bad they didn't make the series longer. I give it two thumbs up.

[GIrene]

Some jerk off at a military history site I'm at tried telling me the first battle (Al Kut?) was "too Hollywood" I tried telling the idiot that it was based off a real battle that all these Marines WENT through and they DIDN'T take any casualties, he stayed by his uninformed assumption.

[Pete0331]

Some jerk off at a military history site I'm at tried telling me the first battle (Al Kut?) was "too Hollywood" I tried telling the idiot that it was based off a real battle that all these Marines WENT through and they DIDN'T take any casualties, he stayed by his uninformed assumption.

If it was al Kut I'll have to re-watch and pay more attention to detail.
My company (reinforced with tanks) was the spearhead for that.

[GIrene]

Well I know the show just showed the Recon Battalion movin' through but I mean its not rocket science, if no one got killed (I think they had like 1-2 WIA) then no one got bloody killed. So if the show shows that, and the guys who were there are pretty sure it wasn't that, then its not "Hollywood", its reality.

[Pete0331]

Well I know the show just showed the Recon Battalion movin' through but I mean its not rocket science, if no one got killed (I think they had like 1-2 WIA) then no one got bloody killed. So if the show shows that, and the guys who were there are pretty sure it wasn't that, then its not "Hollywood", its reality.

You talking about the bridge where Kocher gets separated?

[Pete0331]

If it was, the casualties were accurate in the series.
Both books have some discrepancies as to the actual event, but both comment on the 2 WIA.

[GIrene]

You talking about the bridge where Kocher gets separated?

Nah their first "real battle" after they spent all that time rolling around I think it was the 2nd Episode.

Adjust fire lol: It was Al Gharraf but its the 2nd episode.