View Full Version : What do the poolees and civvie wannabes think?
05-02-03, 04:42 AM
This was posted by ladileatherneck on a different forum. I'll keep my own political view out of this (for now) but I'm curious as to what my peers think of this:
Calif. Offers Textbook Case of Political Correctness
Wednesday, April 30, 2003
By Anita Vogel
LOS ANGELES — A textbook review process in California has changed or eliminated references to everything from the Founding Fathers (search) to hot dogs, leaving many to charge the state with distorting history in the name of political correctness.
The textbook review process, which is routinely done in many states, is meant to eliminate or replace outdated words or phrases. But what’s happening in California has a lot of people wondering – quite literally – "Where’s the beef?"
That’s because many California textbooks will no longer feature pictures of hot dogs, sodas, cakes, butter and other kinds of food that are not considered nutritious. Nor will the books contain any phrases judged to be sexist or politically insensitive.
The Founding Fathers, for instance, are now referred to as "The Framers," in an apparent effort to make them sound less male-dominant. And there will be no more reading about Mount Rushmore (search), where the faces of four U.S. presidents are carved into stone, because it appears to offend some American-Indian groups.
The changes, which reflect a wide range of political correctness (search), have been brought about by pressure groups on both sides of the political aisle, as both Democratic and Republican legislators have been lobbied.
Snowman? No more. Melt that image and replace with Snowperson. Want to sail away on a yacht? No, again. It’s too elitist.
And if you think grandpa is a senior citizen, guess what? You’re wrong. That’s demeaning, according to the new standards. He is now simply an "older person."
The laundry list of words and images banned or considered offensive is not a short one. The word "jungle" has been replaced with "rain forest." The word "devil" has disappeared entirely, with no replacement.
Many of the changes seem to represent a direct assault on historical accuracy. For example, the new guidelines dictate American Indians should not be depicted with long braids, in rural settings or on reservations. There are no suggestions on how they should be depicted, however.
The problem there, say historians, is that some American Indians did wear their hair in braids, and generally lived in rural settings before being relocated to reservations.
Some say the changes are needed to better reach out to today’s diverse student population. Others have a different name for it.
"It's outright censorship," said author Diane Ravitch, who has written extensively on the subject of how the nation's schools have dealt with the issue. "It dumbs down our textbooks, makes them bland, far less interesting than anything children might see in the movies -- even in G-rated movies or TV.
"The problems that have happened in education is that the textbook publishers and the test developers have become so sensitive to any controversy that whenever they receive a complaint it is very likely that they will remove the source of the complaint," explained Ravitch.
Textbook publishers admit they are in a bind. They say if they don't adopt the changes made by large states like California and Texas, they would suffer severe economic consequences.
Still, there are those who defend the changes made.
"I think our textbooks should to our greatest capacity be free of any type of stereotyping," said Sue Stickel, deputy superintendent for curriculum and instruction for the California Department of Education (search). "We need to make sure that all ethnicities are represented. We need to make sure that both males and females are represented. We need to make sure that our materials cover the full gamut."
05-02-03, 06:39 AM
In my Personal Opinion,
Society is becoming to concerned on being liberal. Too much political correction, Too much affirmative action, Too much time being spent to make sure everyone feels "equal". I think Americans need to move forward and discover better ways of being a cohesive society, which is what this intended to do, but at the same time I believe that we should keep many of our culture traits even if they are condsidered "Barbaric" or "behind the times" because its what makes our society unique from others.
I could be wrong though. Who knows perhaps this is the best step for America. Also this is only happening in California. The state is about as liberal as it can be. Spreading the changes to other states that are more conservative, like South Carolina, is somewhat different
05-02-03, 07:30 AM
I think it's just stupid. It sounds like they're changing history to make it sound better, why change the Founding Fathers becasue it's to male dominating? They WERE male dominated. And snowman? For one thing it doesn't even snow in California (at least i dont think it does), and well, it's IS a snowman until you put breasts on it right? and whats the point of changing jungle to rain forest? These people are just trying to cause as much trouble as they can...I like things the way they were when I was in grade school, they're dumbing stuff down so much it's getting pathetic.
05-02-03, 07:31 AM
I do like the idea of changing senior citizen back to old. Tell it as it is.
Its hard to belive people can fine time for all this BS.
05-02-03, 08:23 AM
I agree that 99% of what they are doing is BS. However, I am a Senior Citizen, but I am NOT "old".
If it ever happens, I'll accept my children (1,3,7,8) calling me their "old man", but God help anyone else who tries it.
Call me an old man, and I better remember yo momma, or you can ask her if she remembers me.
05-02-03, 08:30 AM
Georgians Plan Whites-Only Prom Party
Fri May 2, 3:51 AM ET Add U.S. National - AP to My Yahoo!
By ELLIOTT MINOR, Associated Press Writer
ALBANY, Ga. - Gerica McCrary said she cried when she heard about the decision to hold a separate white-only prom only a year after she helped bring black and white students together in her rural high school's first integrated prom.
Many white students at Taylor County High School said they plan to attend next week's mixed prom, but a small number of whites said they also wanted a private party.
Juniors are charged with planning the prom each year and last year they decided to have just one dance — the first integrated prom in 31 years in the rural Georgia county 150 miles south of Atlanta.
Until then, parents and students organized separate proms for whites and blacks after school officials stopped sponsoring dances, in part because they wanted to avoid problems arising from interracial dating.
After school integration, separate proms were common in the rural South. Taylor County was among the last to cling to the practice.
Erin Posey, a white senior, said the entire junior class joined together in hosting last year's prom, but this year's junior class wasn't as unified.
"I think a lot of seniors were disappointed," she said. "Now we have to choose between two groups of friends."
The school has 439 students, 232 of them black. McCrary, who is black, and a white friend passed out fliers informing students of all races that they would be welcome at the May 9 prom at nearby Fort Valley State University. The private prom is Friday night 50 miles away in Columbus.
"I would have liked to see it together this year," said Gerard Latimore, a black junior class president who helped organize this year's integrated prom night. "My class would have, too. It just didn't happen this year."
Gerard's mother, Glenda Latimore, a 1972 graduate, attended a segregated prom. She said relatives in Philadelphia and New Jersey laugh when they read about Taylor County's prom.
"It seems like it's something secret," she said. "The white people are afraid to speak up against the separation.
"But I went to a black prom and I had fun," she added. "It didn't kill me, so I tell my son, 'Just go to the prom and have fun. Don't come out hating anyone.'"
05-02-03, 08:35 AM
I think we're forgetting where political correctness is needed and where it's not.
If it's used in a derogatory manner, it's not correct, period. Forget the political part of it, it's just not correct. (In reference to Older person vs. Senior Citizen)
If key information is neglected to be taught, it's wrong, period. Forget the politicalness of it, we need to teach our children something ... they will be the ones running this country soon enough. This world is male dominated. I understand and accept that. In no way does that mean that women aren't important parts of society, because they are, but our founding fathers did happen to be men. (In reference to changes in textbooks.)
... just saying I agree with ya'll.
05-02-03, 10:37 AM
I grew up in a mix-race neighborhood. If any one, non-white, was not welcome at any type of party or social event - I would not attend that s-o-b racist event, period - end of statement. That's not political correctness - lets get that straight from the get go. It's simply good manners in their simiplest form.
05-02-03, 10:55 AM
I agree with you.
The older I get (and I'm still a young'un) the more shocked I am at how people act.
05-02-03, 04:38 PM
I don't think there is ever a place for political correctness in our society. We have laws that tell us everyone is equal, but the in comes the PC monster to tell us that they really aren't. They seem to think that some classes need special protection. While some classes are protected by the federal government, it isn't meant for situations like this. Instead they are to ensure that everyone enjoys "Equal Protection of the Laws" as the Fourteenth Amendment to our Constitution says they should. This means that persons over 40 are protected in the work place. You can't fire someone over 40 years old, just for their age, unless there is a compelling state interest to do so. (Think FBI, Secret Service, Military, etc.) Notice, there is a hard limit, you can fire someone that is 39 years and 364 days old for their age without a legal problem. Gender, race, some disabilities, age, and religion are the things protected. But, the Congress nor the Courts have decided that it is improper to call an old person old (Clearly not you First Sgt.) it is instead the liberal media and entertainment world that has brought these practices into our world. It isn't wrong to be politically incorrect and more than it is wrong to follow the "rules" imposed upon us by those 'elite' people that think they know better than the rest of us. So, they can put anything they want in a book, I will still teach my children about the real America, and trust my children will do the same for their children.
Now, if you will excuse me, I am going to go fire up the grill, cook a hot dog, get in my yaht, sail to Mt. Rushmore, wave at some old people, play bingo with the Indians and just in general think of California the same way I think of France and Germany... as an enemy to the American way of life.
05-02-03, 08:21 PM
PC is a funny thing....
Once a person was a cripple... then we changed it to being handycap... then it changed to disabled and now it is called physically challenged... it all means the same thing in the dictionay. The VA says I am disabled... but I dont think I am physically challenged....
Another good one - I can tell this because my wife is Filipino - a friend of mine was told that he could not call a "Flip Chart" a "Flip" Chart anymore - they said it was disrespectful to Filipino's because a derogotory name for Filipino is "Flip"!
05-04-03, 06:00 PM
The funny thing to me is... How can you make history politically correct? It wasn't! Women had little rights. Slaves had none! Native Americans were kicked right out of their ancestrial homelands. The list goes on. No country's history has been politically sensitive like they're trying to make it. "The Founding Fathers, for instance, are now referred to as "The Framers," in an apparent effort to make them sound less male-dominant." hmmm someone decided to make it sooouuund as if society then was less male dominant. IT WAS male dominant. So why not talk about it that way and put it into perspective in a way students can learn from it instead of sugar coating things in a way that is untrue. I get all fired up talking about this stuff so before I scorch my keyboard... What some people call liberal i call sensorship
05-04-03, 07:39 PM
Originally posted by top1371
Another good one - I can tell this because my wife is Filipino - a friend of mine was told that he could not call a "Flip Chart" a "Flip" Chart anymore - they said it was disrespectful to Filipino's because a derogotory name for Filipino is "Flip"!
At yearly inservice I heard that and let the instructor know "As a person of Filipino descent and having a wife and a child who were born in the Philippines, it's okay with us if you use the term 'flip chart'." It got a few laughs, but they still wouldn't use the term. LOL
Here's one.. How many of you remember the term "black board" ?
I had a sign for a while which read:
POLITICALLY CORRECT: THE INABILITY OR UNWILLINGNESS OF ONE TO THINK FOR THEMSELVES.
05-04-03, 11:13 PM
The "dumbing down of America" has begun, and is in full swing. Why is it, that there are all-African American colleges, but no all white colleges? Is this pollitically correct? We all use pollitical correctness at times, but I agree with Jchristin: out of respect. As for the textbook thing, I find it absurd, and am dissapointed that the parents would keep their child in that school knowing that is going on, or rather, would know if they helped their kid with studies and actually read the book. Please correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't a school need a certain number of attendees to retain all of its funding? Seems like some people need to create an uproar. Or is that too much work, just like going for a walk after dinner to burn off that hot dog and hamburger?
05-05-03, 07:14 AM
I agree Robo, lets all get on a plane to California and have ourselves a RIOT! WHO'S WITH ME! I'll bring the soda, someone else bring the chips.
05-05-03, 08:09 AM
Students at all-female Smith College in Massachusetts have voted to remove all feminine pronouns from the school constitution and replace them with gender-neutral ones, reports the Daily Hampshire Gazette.
The move is part of an effort to make transgender students feel more welcome. According to the report, a growing number of such students are uncomfortable with the pronouns "she" and "her."
An elementary school student in Nampa, Idaho has been told he cannot wear a T-shirt with a U.S. soldier on it because the gun the soldier is holding might send the wrong message, reports KCBI-TV in Boise.
The Daily Telegraph reports that in Britain the term "brainstorming" is now frowned upon because it might offend people with epilepsy.
The town of Shutesbury, Mass. has created “fragrance zones” at an upcoming town meeting to accommodate people who can’t tolerate the smell of cologne, perfume or deodorant, reports the Associated Press.
People attending the meeting will be segregated by scent. Those who never use smelly stuff will sit in one area. Those who sometime wear fragrances but didn’t that particular day will sit in another, and those who forgot and wore something that day will sit in a third.
Town Administrator David Ames, who is responsible for making the town compliant with the Americans with Disabilities Act, said using fragrances is akin to smoking in public.
(NOTE:I wonder if they will make farting a capitol offense.)
Grobe's suit alleged that her employer was negligent "for placing the tables in the entrance and for failing to comply with store policy by not having two male employees available." Perhaps we're missing something, but wouldn't the employer have faced likely liability exposure if it had enforced a policy of "having two male employees available" to handle heavy deliveries? As any self-respecting sex-discrimination litigator would point out, such a policy closes off some work opportunities to women and trades on impermissible (no matter how generally accurate) stereotypes of men as wielding greater upper-body strength.
A Massachusetts rehab hospital has banned employees from wearing yellow ribbons in support of U.S. troops in Iraq because it doesn’t want its patients reminded of the war, reports the Boston Herald.
Patients at the Rehabilitation Hospital of the Cape and Islands can read papers and watch the news, but the ribbons on nurses’ and doctors’ uniforms might prove too upsetting, they said.
A Massachusetts man is suing the city he lives in because he says he is offended by being forced to vote in a Methodist church, reports the Boston Herald.
Meltzer, a columnist for the Metrowest Daily News, says that his religion - Judaism - prohibits him from entering churches. He says absentee voting is a poor substitute.
A survey of political diversity at Ithaca College in New York found that of 125 professors who registered to vote at the college 93.6 percent did so as Democrats or Greens, reports the Ithacan.
(NOTE: This is at a time when schools at all levels are using quotas, set-asides, and affirmative action to ensure that their students are exposed to diverse racial, ethnic, cultural, and economic groups whose presence is required to provide a proper educational experience. Can we not say the same thing about the teaching staff?
It seems to me that my teachers had a greater influence on my learning experience than ANY of my classmates.)
School officials in El Paso, Texas suspended a 12-year-old boy for sticking his tongue out at a female classmate when she declined his invitation to be his girlfriend, reports the El Paso Times.
School officials said the gesture amounted to sexual harassment and are considering placing Sal Santana II, a student at old Magoffin Middle School, in an alternative school.
In the term "Politically Correct", the word "politically" is a limiting modifier. Other limiting modifiers are "seldom", "occassionally", "almost", "sometimes", etc. etc. I choose NOT to be "correct" with limitations. I prefer to be RIGHT, and when I am right, then YOU have to deal with it.
Cagayan de Oro
05-05-03, 12:09 PM
i thought all rainforests were jungles but not all jungles were rainforests (rainforests need a certain amount of rainfall). this new PC stuff screws up my entire thinking now. and the framers, what if the mafia has a problem with that because it takes away from some of the illegal framing they do. this whole thing seems like a waste of time and money to me.
05-05-03, 12:42 PM
Not all rainforests are jungles. The Pacific Northwest (near Olympia, Washington) has the largest temorate rainforest(meaning it's not a tripical rain forest and consists mainly of pine trees) in the world.. Actually, I think it is the only one in excistance as the rest of the world have destroyed their own. Funny how other countries (and even states) who have destroyed their own natural resources come down on us for preserving ours and then say we can't even use what we have.
05-05-03, 01:29 PM
Since so many people disagree with "political correctness" I begin to wonder how it continues to thrive.
05-06-03, 07:27 AM
Good question DevilPup...is everyone disagrees with it, doesn't that make it politically incorrect? I mean, they do this becasue one or two people get offended by some things, those people need to grow up and face the real world. People have to stop sugarcoating everything because it's starting to get on my nerves, I guess I'll just be "Politically Incorrect" for the rest of my life....
A spellchecker would be nice here :)
05-07-03, 11:04 AM
I think that "Political Corectness" will always be a shifting argument. There's always going to be something that some people feel is wrong and needs change. But as many have put it in this thread, most of the changes mean the same exact thing. Some of it borders on the ridiculous...(The removal of pictures of Hot Dogs...It doesn't change anything) while others do make sense. However, I still find it hard to care at all about it. Political Corectness matters to me if the acts were TRULY wrong in the first place...I don't very much care if I incorrectly call a 'Rain Forest' a 'Jungle' or if I call an 'Older Person' a 'Senior Citizen.' But I do agree that Racism, and topics such as that need to be further analyzed and made more politically correct...because if they're wrong, work on em. But if it aint broke...don't fix it.
05-07-03, 11:24 AM
Originally posted by SmprFiSully
...I don't very much care if I incorrectly call a 'Rain Forest' a 'Jungle' or if I call an 'Older Person' a 'Senior Citizen.' But I do agree that Racism, and topics such as that need to be further analyzed and made more politically correct...because if they're wrong, work on em. But if it aint broke...don't fix it.
Some good points. However, through this so-called "Politcal Correctness" we have also had a "dumbying down" of our society. We have the potential to teach our children far more than we ever have, the resources and the ways we are able to research history have expanded the ability of learning. We now have far more sources and can access experts with just a click of a button where before, if the library didn't have that book you didn't get the info. Or, if the library had the book and you needed only one page out of 2,000, it was tough to find, now you just put what you want into a "search" and you have it.
With this, and part of the reason I quoted you, is the terms we use. Some of them make sense (as you stated) and some are just used because someone thinks it would be better. You used the term "racism". Well, the dictionary I have defines racism as taking pride in ones own herritage and culture. I see nothing wrong with this. I usually confuse people when I tell them that I will raise my children to be racist. Because I see it as a GOOD thing. Bigotry, is the term that racism has replaced in our society? Why? Why not use the term that describes what people are saying? Why bring a new word in to replace it? I personally think it's because bigotry sounds bad (it is bad), where racism kind of rolls off the tongue and is less "offensive sounding." Well, it is an offensive thing that you are describing, why not use something that sounds and brings images to the mind that are offensive?
We have a Government and a media that are dictating to use what words we can or cannot use (the board game Scrabble has deleted the word queer from its dictionary - does that mean it's no longer a word?) and I, for one, personally think it's about control. It may be simple and it may not matter greatly on the grand scale, but it is a form of controlling how we think - how we form our thoughts and how we act. Some of it is for the better, but I think allowing people to think for themselves, ultimately, is the best.
05-07-03, 12:43 PM
I think that all this political correctness was just some crazy joke that has gotten out of control. People these days can be real crazy at times, but those who live that way are really wierd.
05-22-03, 12:58 AM
I just have to say that by changing the way history was to make it sound nice is a crime. I took a class in college called American Radicalism and what i learned in there was never taught in school. We used a history book written by Howard Zinn I can't remember the name but I also used it in a HS class which happened to be in Los Angeles, CA. The only reason was that it was a magnet class. But what I read in there really made me think. He doesn't suger coat things and that is what this country needs. I mean I was talking to a kid at work who is still in HS and he didn't even know about the Japenese inturnment camps from WWII. I learned about them from a juvenille book in the Dear America series. As I hadn't learned about that in HS. Also I now live in MN and I learned froma friend who did a research paper on the Indian Uprising (politally correct) of 1864 I beleive. Well it was that war that gave Hitler his idea of the consentration camps . Now how do you go and make that PC or do you just continue to cover it up and pretend it doesn't exist? Our nations history shows that we controled others but should we just ignore that? No we should learn from it I think if we took a long hard look at the history we will see good and bad things but we will also understand why other countries have the veiws of us that they do. As they say those who don't learn from history are destined to repeat it.
05-22-03, 02:07 AM
Insisting upon "political" correctness is an insiduous form of mind control and a distortion of reality.
If you think your recent experience with "sanitized" American history books was a subtle form of "brainwashing" you "ain't seen nuthin yet."
For one example, check into the recent furor caused by the Japanese version of WWII in "their" history books.
05-22-03, 01:12 PM
Reality check when you decided to become a citizen of the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA you except that this is a seperate country from the one you left we as AMERICANS have our own HISTORY our own LANGUAGE, our own CULTURE and our own BOARDERS, to protect and defend from all eneimes foreign and domestic (aka hollywood leftist commies)
History is a growing, and continual learning experience. Each time you read it, or research it, we learn something new, about ourselves and our great country.
The way these activist groups are re-writing history it does not reflect the actual event's of those time's, or the thinking of the Fore Fathers whom framed the Greatest Country on the Face of the Earth because it is not politically correct.
Sorry! all you leftist libreal friends but our history DOES represent a lot of cultures. Just not always in the light of what makes us FEEL GOOD about that culture, in how it may or may not have been treated or mistreated, by our current and culturally expected system of thinking and or talking about and dealing with people.
Yet we only have this knowledge and these socially excepted acts and way of talking because of the brutal truth of our history.
The Constitution, The Declaration of Independence, and many other historic documents are the framework of our culture, the AMERICAN culture.
In a time where our kids are going to school to try and learn amongst school shootings, bomb threats, gang violence, teen pregnancy, drugs and poorly paid, understaffed and undersupported teachers, (Thank you Gray Davis!) it is no wonder test scores are down.
Now we are inbreeding and perpetuating ignorance of the truth, reality and our American History, by re-writing that history. All for a minority (a small grop of people) who's ignorance is shrouded in a so called degree of intelligence, or whom want to erase America's distinct history, because they don't truly want to be a part of America and it's history or because they think it does not represent them in a positive or feel good uplifting light, ignoring the facts of thier role in history.
History my friends is not politically correct!
the Revolution, Racism, Civil Rights, the Civil War, Hitler, Stalin, the Ku Klux Klan, Saddam, Osama Bin Laden, and more, much more.
These events and people in history, and the mind sets of these indviduals, the language, the hate, the racial slurs and slat in the politics are a part of what has shaped and changed our brutal world.
By re-writing our history to not offend, we down play the significances and sacrafices that were made to keep those events from happening again.
In this the education system make's each new generation ignorant and unappreciative of their American history, and culture. The lessons learned, and the history on which this country was founded right or wrong is for the individual to decied
If you do not like the way we do things here. If you do not like our form of government get the Heck out the same freedom that lets you come here lets you leave and build your communist dream elsewhere.