thedrifter
05-04-08, 09:17 AM
Iraq veterans reflect on war
Correspondents Report - Sunday, 4 May , 2008
Reporter: Geoff Thompson
BRENDAN TREMBATH: It's five years since the US President George W. Bush gave his "Mission Accomplished" speech on an aircraft carrier in the Pacific. It was meant to mark the end of what he called "major combat operations" in Iraq.
When US-led forces first invaded Iraq, the ABC's Geoff Thompson was embedded with US marines travelling from Kuwait to Baghdad.
Geoff recently returned to Iraq and the United States to catch up with some of the marines he met five years ago. He found that just as American attitudes to the war had changed, so have the men who fought.
GEOFF THOMSON: Embedding with the US military in Iraq or Afghanistan has been controversial from the outset, and not least among journalists who are quick to argue that reporters cannot possibly get the whole story when they are utterly dependent on their military hosts for food, shelter and security.
I think that's true. But if you never pretend to tell the whole story, embedding does provide extraordinary access to the American war machine, and the vast variety of characters who make it run. That story can be revealing too.
In 2003, I was embedded with American marines from Kuwait to Baghdad and I think perhaps more than anything else, I was struck by the youth and inexperience of so many of the troops relative to the gravity of the responsibility thrust upon them.
I was also, perhaps unexpectedly, impressed by the intelligence and wisdom of some the officers implementing a decision to go to war which was not their own.
This year, as the fifth anniversary of the war passed, we tracked down five of the marines I met in 2003 for a story which airs on Foreign Correspondent this week. Four of them were living in the States and one was in Iraq.
In 2003, Joe Gomez, he was just 23 and I met him during his first experience of war as he stood in front of the bodies of dead civilians. Back then he said, though it might sound messed up to say it, he found the experience "kind of motivating".
These days Gomez is a recruiter spending his time visiting high schools in Chicago, trying to entice students to sign up to the marine corps. When not donning his dress uniform and playing poster boy, he is a gentle family man.
Patrick Payne's life went in a different direction. In 2003 at just 21, he was providing security for a convoy we were in when he and some other marines opened fire on a vehicle they considered to be a threat. Three civilians were killed and to this day, Payne has no regrets. "We did what we had to do," he says.
Payne is a father too these days too these days, but he's left the Marine Corps and is living with his parents just outside LA. Payne offers some surprising views about the abuses revealed at Baghdad's Abu Ghraib prison in 2004.
He says "it was no big deal" but just bored people "entertaining themselves" and he believes the only person who should be punished is the one who took the pictures because "he was stupid to get caught".
On the other side of the world, and at the other end of the spectrum, is Captain Steven Thompson. I met him when in command of an artillery battery in 2003.
The following year, he returned to Iraq and was blown up by a roadside bomb. His back, an arm and a leg were severely injured. But that didn't hold him down for long.
Seven months after his injury, Thompson returned to active duty and soon qualified to fly Cobra attack helicopters - which he is doing right now back in Iraq.
For me, Thompson epitomised the formidable drive and peculiar optimism which so often defines Americans. It's an energy which is remarkably effective when propelling a cause, but can be equally dangerous when the cause veers off track.
Five years on, every one of the marines we spoke to believed that whatever one thinks about the original decision to invade Iraq, now the US military should stay until it is no longer needed.
The majority of Americans are now opposed to the war in Iraq, and as one of the marines we met again said, "I think all Americans want it to end, it's just how we want it to end which is really the thing that people are contentious about”.
Captain Thompson summed up the reality on the ground in Iraq: "This country has been ruled by tribes for thousands of years", he said, "So it's bringing tribes and religions together to stay under one nation and once they start accepting each other a little more I think we can hand it over, but I think that until the infighting goes away, it's going to be hard to do".
A recent Pentagon report which labelled the Iraq war "a major debacle" ended with a quote from Winston Churchill: "Always remember, however sure you are that you can easily win, that there would not be a war if the other man did not think that he also had a chance", Churchill said.
This is Geoff Thompson for Correspondents Report.
Ellie
Correspondents Report - Sunday, 4 May , 2008
Reporter: Geoff Thompson
BRENDAN TREMBATH: It's five years since the US President George W. Bush gave his "Mission Accomplished" speech on an aircraft carrier in the Pacific. It was meant to mark the end of what he called "major combat operations" in Iraq.
When US-led forces first invaded Iraq, the ABC's Geoff Thompson was embedded with US marines travelling from Kuwait to Baghdad.
Geoff recently returned to Iraq and the United States to catch up with some of the marines he met five years ago. He found that just as American attitudes to the war had changed, so have the men who fought.
GEOFF THOMSON: Embedding with the US military in Iraq or Afghanistan has been controversial from the outset, and not least among journalists who are quick to argue that reporters cannot possibly get the whole story when they are utterly dependent on their military hosts for food, shelter and security.
I think that's true. But if you never pretend to tell the whole story, embedding does provide extraordinary access to the American war machine, and the vast variety of characters who make it run. That story can be revealing too.
In 2003, I was embedded with American marines from Kuwait to Baghdad and I think perhaps more than anything else, I was struck by the youth and inexperience of so many of the troops relative to the gravity of the responsibility thrust upon them.
I was also, perhaps unexpectedly, impressed by the intelligence and wisdom of some the officers implementing a decision to go to war which was not their own.
This year, as the fifth anniversary of the war passed, we tracked down five of the marines I met in 2003 for a story which airs on Foreign Correspondent this week. Four of them were living in the States and one was in Iraq.
In 2003, Joe Gomez, he was just 23 and I met him during his first experience of war as he stood in front of the bodies of dead civilians. Back then he said, though it might sound messed up to say it, he found the experience "kind of motivating".
These days Gomez is a recruiter spending his time visiting high schools in Chicago, trying to entice students to sign up to the marine corps. When not donning his dress uniform and playing poster boy, he is a gentle family man.
Patrick Payne's life went in a different direction. In 2003 at just 21, he was providing security for a convoy we were in when he and some other marines opened fire on a vehicle they considered to be a threat. Three civilians were killed and to this day, Payne has no regrets. "We did what we had to do," he says.
Payne is a father too these days too these days, but he's left the Marine Corps and is living with his parents just outside LA. Payne offers some surprising views about the abuses revealed at Baghdad's Abu Ghraib prison in 2004.
He says "it was no big deal" but just bored people "entertaining themselves" and he believes the only person who should be punished is the one who took the pictures because "he was stupid to get caught".
On the other side of the world, and at the other end of the spectrum, is Captain Steven Thompson. I met him when in command of an artillery battery in 2003.
The following year, he returned to Iraq and was blown up by a roadside bomb. His back, an arm and a leg were severely injured. But that didn't hold him down for long.
Seven months after his injury, Thompson returned to active duty and soon qualified to fly Cobra attack helicopters - which he is doing right now back in Iraq.
For me, Thompson epitomised the formidable drive and peculiar optimism which so often defines Americans. It's an energy which is remarkably effective when propelling a cause, but can be equally dangerous when the cause veers off track.
Five years on, every one of the marines we spoke to believed that whatever one thinks about the original decision to invade Iraq, now the US military should stay until it is no longer needed.
The majority of Americans are now opposed to the war in Iraq, and as one of the marines we met again said, "I think all Americans want it to end, it's just how we want it to end which is really the thing that people are contentious about”.
Captain Thompson summed up the reality on the ground in Iraq: "This country has been ruled by tribes for thousands of years", he said, "So it's bringing tribes and religions together to stay under one nation and once they start accepting each other a little more I think we can hand it over, but I think that until the infighting goes away, it's going to be hard to do".
A recent Pentagon report which labelled the Iraq war "a major debacle" ended with a quote from Winston Churchill: "Always remember, however sure you are that you can easily win, that there would not be a war if the other man did not think that he also had a chance", Churchill said.
This is Geoff Thompson for Correspondents Report.
Ellie