Help me out Marines

[egbutler1]

I am diagnosed with PTSD and rated at 50% on the first go around. Well I was wondering if these symptoms are common cause its really ****in me off. First out of many, is that I have become unreliable which aggravates me because this is unlike myself. Which brings me to another ‘symptom’ of being angry all the time I will go off on people for reasons unknown to me. They can just say one word or sentence or do something very insignificant and I will go off the wall. I can’t seem to want to get myself out of the house or be around anybody. I have no friends (other than my marine buddies that I can talk “Marine” with), I keep myself out of just about every situation I can think of by coming up with excuse sometimes even becoming violently ill thinking about doing something as simple as going to a restaurant. Also my short term memory is completely shot I forget stuff im attempting to do or where I parked my car. Which in turn ****es me off I was at the mall the other day and had to leave cause of the crowed of people and went out to find my car and well I wondered the parking lot till the mall cop pulled me over and said I looked like I was going to break into a car. I lost it. Apparently I go nuts sometimes at night and my wife says I get this complete blank look on my face and she cant snap me out of it for awhile. Dreams are horrible visions of death and slow-motion replays of m time in Iraq. Sleep is a rarity the VA has me on ambien but I don’t want to get hooked on it so I only take it once and awhile and even than I only sleep for like 4 hours. My normal night consists of TV leatherneck.com and xbox till about 04-05, than I go to lay next to my wife and sit there staring at the ceiling thinking about Iraq, marines that have been lost or even about someone breaking into my house and the ways i could dispatch them to hell. Many times i have found myself "patrolling" the perimeter of my house cause i'm paranoid. Finally after sometimes 2 hours of that I just crash. Than I wake up and the damn process starts all over again. Also I haven’t been able to stop taking like 15 showers a day for like almost the last 2 years, counting steps according to my pace count and stupid little **** like that. I can’t talk about the **** that happened over there to my wife and she understands but I want to but its so freaking hard to explain to someone who hasn’t been there. There is so much more but those are the basics and now my fingers hurt from typing lol. So I know it’s a lot to take in Marines but if you have been diagnosed with PTSD could you let me know if any of these match your ‘symptoms’? It’d much appreciated.
Cpl. Butler (0311 EAS 07/21/2006)

[Jonny Destroyer]

I am diagnosed with PTSD and rated at 50% on the first go around. Well I was wondering if these symptoms are common cause its really ****in me off. First out of many, is that I have become unreliable which aggravates me because this is unlike myself. Which brings me to another ‘symptom’ of being angry all the time I will go off on people for reasons unknown to me. They can just say one word or sentence or do something very insignificant and I will go off the wall. I can’t seem to want to get myself out of the house or be around anybody. I have no friends (other than my marine buddies that I can talk “Marine” with), I keep myself out of just about every situation I can think of by coming up with excuse sometimes even becoming violently ill thinking about doing something as simple as going to a restaurant. Also my short term memory is completely shot I forget stuff im attempting to do or where I parked my car. Which in turn ****es me off I was at the mall the other day and had to leave cause of the crowed of people and went out to find my car and well I wondered the parking lot till the mall cop pulled me over and said I looked like I was going to break into a car. I lost it. Apparently I go nuts sometimes at night and my wife says I get this complete blank look on my face and she cant snap me out of it for awhile. Dreams are horrible visions of death and slow-motion replays of m time in Iraq. Sleep is a rarity the VA has me on ambien but I don’t want to get hooked on it so I only take it once and awhile and even than I only sleep for like 4 hours. My normal night consists of TV leatherneck.com and xbox till about 04-05, than I go to lay next to my wife and sit there staring at the ceiling thinking about Iraq, marines that have been lost or even about someone breaking into my house and the ways i could dispatch them to hell. Many times i have found myself "patrolling" the perimeter of my house cause i'm paranoid. Finally after sometimes 2 hours of that I just crash. Than I wake up and the damn process starts all over again. Also I haven’t been able to stop taking like 15 showers a day for like almost the last 2 years, counting steps according to my pace count and stupid little **** like that. I can’t talk about the **** that happened over there to my wife and she understands but I want to but its so freaking hard to explain to someone who hasn’t been there. There is so much more but those are the basics and now my fingers hurt from typing lol. So I know it’s a lot to take in Marines but if you have been diagnosed with PTSD could you let me know if any of these match your ‘symptoms’? It’d much appreciated.
Cpl. Butler (0311 EAS 07/21/2006)


Like I said in my other post, I was diagnosed with the same thing. Sounds like textbook PTSD to me. Go to your local VA clinic and look into getting counseling. Like I said before, there are SO many services they offer, and its really to your advantage to use them. Its not gonna go away on your own...and its not going to go away fast. Hell, there are things that are gonna stick with you forever, brother, but thats our life as a Marine. Thats the life we chose. Just do yourself a favor and get help for it. Im currently going to counseling from the VA every Friday...although its a slow and sometimes frustrating process, its something. And thats better than doing nothing at all.

I know if I didnt get help soon, I'd probably wind up drinking myself to death or something something else stupid.

Trust me, as a fellow Marine, contact the VA as soon as you can. Dont put it off.

Best of luck my friend
-CPL Maines

[egbutler1]

Thanks man, i didn't mean for you to have to reply again. Just didn't get really any responses from before and wanted to be on top of the posts again to see if i could get some more help. Yeah I do the whole VA thing and have been for almost 2 years. But like you said its slow and i don't get to see my Doc but ever 2-4 months, and we have nowhere to get counseling or group which im sure would help me talk bout this crap. But thanks again for your help. Its much appreciated. I signed up for this and i knew of PTSD a while before i ever entered the Corps I took the oath well before there was even a war going on. So i'm taking it in stride. Thanks again Semper FI!

[Jonny Destroyer]

Thanks man, i didn't mean for you to have to reply again. Just didn't get really any responses from before and wanted to be on top of the posts again to see if i could get some more help. Yeah I do the whole VA thing and have been for almost 2 years. But like you said its slow and i don't get to see my Doc but ever 2-4 months, and we have nowhere to get counseling or group which im sure would help me talk bout this crap. But thanks again for your help. Its much appreciated. I signed up for this and i knew of PTSD a while before i ever entered the Corps I took the oath well before there was even a war going on. So i'm taking it in stride. Thanks again Semper FI!

Dude, no problem about the multiple replies, I just want you to get some help. Thats **** that you only see your Doc every 2-4 months...I just looked up the VA places in FLA, and theres a TON of them. Im sure you can transfer your primary care facility to somewhere closer to you, so you have a more personalized, one-on-one type of deal. Many of the VA Outpatient Clinics offer counseling. Go to http://www.va.gov and click the "Find Facilities" link and see if there is anything closer to you. Trust me man, 2-4 months is way too long for something that needs induvidual/group counseling. I urge you to look into it, for your benefit.

[egbutler1]

Yeah i'm currently in a OPC in tallahassee. I'm trying to work with the Vets Center for the counseling part cause they are not a busy as our tinny little OPC here. But still who knows, i'm outta FL here in a few months and off to AL with my wife so she can get her PHd and they have a VA hospital right there on campus so maybe ill have better luck. I seem to think my Head Doc at my MH OPC is just there to fix my meds and **** not there to hear me, but thats is alot of my falut cause i don't open up. Well thanks man. KILL!

[Warmachine0352]

Hey Devil,

I been out for almost four years now. I have had similiar experiences. I haven't gotten treatment yet, and it still hasn't gone away. I've just had so much trouble trying to get help from the VA and then not getting taken care of at all, I dont even want to call again. We're trained to deal with any situation and now its like we have to go call someone up and ask for help.

I guess trying to push through by myself still hasn't worked, so I would suggest continuing to get help. I have to call sometime soon, but thats what I have been saying for the last 3 years or so.

Most days of the week I get like 2-3 hours of sleep, same deal as you, my girlfriend goes to sleep and I just lay there for hours. Usually thinking of what I would do if people were to break in. I get up check things outs, lay back down. Eventually, usually at about 0500 I can go to sleep. I think it's because I dont feel confortable enough to sleep unless someone is on gaurd at night, then in the morning the threat level is lower and people are awake so that a warning will be shout if something happens.

I dont want to be around anyone either. I force myself to, but so many times I dont want to go. I go to college atm, I get mostly As, and Bs, one C (should have been an B). But yeah, I miss SOOO much class cause I'll wake up, get in the car, start to drive there, and just the traffic and the thought of walking in the class will turn me around, even on the way there! So yeah, so hard to push through that stuff.


My dreams are usually of ensuring my Marines are trained and prepared enough to go over. One dream I had we were underfire, and none of my Marines had weapons. I pushed up and grabbed weapons from fallen guys and started passing them out in the fire fight.

I think for me I try not to think too much on it. The more I focus on these problems the worse they get. I think I need to deal with them, but also except they will be there no matter what, I just have to overcome.

Good luck with it man, let me know how the counciling goes. Thats the other irony, the way you gotta deal with it is to do exactly what you usually dont do in the Corps. Get together and share you feelings with other devil dogs. So funny!

-CPL Keyes

[Jonny Destroyer]

Hey Devil,

I been out for almost four years now. I have had similiar experiences. I haven't gotten treatment yet, and it still hasn't gone away. I've just had so much trouble trying to get help from the VA and then not getting taken care of at all, I dont even want to call again. We're trained to deal with any situation and now its like we have to go call someone up and ask for help.

I guess trying to push through by myself still hasn't worked, so I would suggest continuing to get help. I have to call sometime soon, but thats what I have been saying for the last 3 years or so.

Most days of the week I get like 2-3 hours of sleep, same deal as you, my girlfriend goes to sleep and I just lay there for hours. Usually thinking of what I would do if people were to break in. I get up check things outs, lay back down. Eventually, usually at about 0500 I can go to sleep. I think it's because I dont feel confortable enough to sleep unless someone is on gaurd at night, then in the morning the threat level is lower and people are awake so that a warning will be shout if something happens.

I dont want to be around anyone either. I force myself to, but so many times I dont want to go. I go to college atm, I get mostly As, and Bs, one C (should have been an B). But yeah, I miss SOOO much class cause I'll wake up, get in the car, start to drive there, and just the traffic and the thought of walking in the class will turn me around, even on the way there! So yeah, so hard to push through that stuff.


My dreams are usually of ensuring my Marines are trained and prepared enough to go over. One dream I had we were underfire, and none of my Marines had weapons. I pushed up and grabbed weapons from fallen guys and started passing them out in the fire fight.

I think for me I try not to think too much on it. The more I focus on these problems the worse they get. I think I need to deal with them, but also except they will be there no matter what, I just have to overcome.

Good luck with it man, let me know how the counciling goes. Thats the other irony, the way you gotta deal with it is to do exactly what you usually dont do in the Corps. Get together and share you feelings with other devil dogs. So funny!

-CPL Keyes


I know the VA is a pain in the a$$, but its in your favor to deal with the BS and get into counseling. I literally JUST came home from my counseler...they're a real help. Marines, I know we're the toughest SOB's on the planet, and we have overcome more adversity than anyone could ever imagine, but theres honestly NO shame in seeking help. I've only been on Leatherneck.com for about 3 days, but I feel like I've said this a million times. SEEK HELP. It wont just go away on its own, its something serious, and it needs to be addressed. We're fortunate enough to have these services offered to us now...its terrible to know back in the WWII/Vietnam/Korean wars, vets were coming home with no kind of help available to them. Thankfully they have TONS of programs out there, specifically for us vets to use so we can better our lives.

Its no fun having PTSD. They just persribed me with Paxil (sp?), some anti-depressant, so I can start feeling normal again...hopefully cut down on my drinking, because its become not only a mental and physical problem for me, but a financial one as well.

PLEASE, brothers, seek the help you deserve. Dont just think you can make it go away on your own, because its deeper than that. Not only that, but you can file a claim and get compensation money for it for the rest of your life! Free money? Hell, i'll take that!

Take care of yourselves, and I hope you find enough courage to get what you need done.

Semper Fi
-CPL Maines:usmc:

[IITheKidII]

I have had very similiar experiences and come very close to doing something stupid. I get 4 hours of sleep on a good night. I have to take my gun, lock it in a case, and lock it in my vehicle when I come home to my apartment so I can try and focus on the real world. I almost completely lost it several times and have just started going to a counselor because what was happening and running through my head was not right. I would recommend it. I can't talk to my friends or relatives about this stuff because it doesn't make any sense (even to me). Do yourself a favor and talk to a therapist. It took me a while to man up enough to do that because it always seemed like such a weakness to go for help like that but if I hadn't I guarantee I wouldn't be here today. I tried to just wait it out and let time take care of it but it only got worse. My mind is in a million places at once and none of them are good. Get some help for yourself. Remember there are folks that want to see you beat this thing. Good luck brother and Semper Fi!

[jpkenny]

Some combat marines seem to have a rougher occasion of PTSD than others. My own personal experience sounded similar to yours, but when I returned from Vietnam, it was not diagnosed. It was my wife who brought my behavior to my attention and I was in 100% denial of what she was telling me. Back then, it was alcohol that seemed to be the crutch of choice to get you through the nights. I can tell you that my first year home was a year of drinking scotch every night until I fell asleep in my chair, then going to work and sweating it out in PT etc the next day. I was stationed a Camp Horno and I can tell you the PT was a God saver. What I have learned since I stopped the alcohol abuse, is that I have to fill my every waking hour with positive activity, whether it is a form of PT, work, or just having a good time with lots of people. Nights finally got better about 10yrs ago. A lot of that had to do with learning how to rehumanize the enemy so I could rehumanize myself. I believed then and I still believe that combat tears holes in your very soul. Once I figured you can mend the holes and live with the scars on your soul, then I started to sleep. If you like the outdoors, take a look at what Camp Patriot and others are doing (www.camppatriot.org (http://www.camppatriot.org)) there is also an organization called Sancutary that leans specifically in the area of PTSD.
(www.agapaosanctuary.org (http://www.agapaosanctuary.org)) The key is don't think of it as a cure, but as a pathway to understanding yourself. Semper fidelis, brother.
Swift Chuck

[David Jameson]

You have to go to the VA.Make sure your in the system.It would be nice but you really have to show up and explain to them you want to see whatever kind of doctor and why.You will get priority because your service connected.
you said your 50 %service connected.Thats the Number you want.ALL your
Medical problem will be handled for free including any perscriptions for any condition now or in the future .You related a lot of concerns.If you 50% for PTSD then its a little hard to under stand how that information was not already relayed to you.you get over $700 a mouth and free .. MED for the rest of your life .Use it

[Jonny Destroyer]

Some combat marines seem to have a rougher occasion of PTSD than others. My own personal experience sounded similar to yours, but when I returned from Vietnam, it was not diagnosed. It was my wife who brought my behavior to my attention and I was in 100% denial of what she was telling me. Back then, it was alcohol that seemed to be the crutch of choice to get you through the nights. I can tell you that my first year home was a year of drinking scotch every night until I fell asleep in my chair, then going to work and sweating it out in PT etc the next day. I was stationed a Camp Horno and I can tell you the PT was a God saver. What I have learned since I stopped the alcohol abuse, is that I have to fill my every waking hour with positive activity, whether it is a form of PT, work, or just having a good time with lots of people. Nights finally got better about 10yrs ago. A lot of that had to do with learning how to rehumanize the enemy so I could rehumanize myself. I believed then and I still believe that combat tears holes in your very soul. Once I figured you can mend the holes and live with the scars on your soul, then I started to sleep. If you like the outdoors, take a look at what Camp Patriot and others are doing (www.camppatriot.org (http://www.camppatriot.org)) there is also an organization called Sancutary that leans specifically in the area of PTSD.
(www.agapaosanctuary.org (http://www.agapaosanctuary.org)) The key is don't think of it as a cure, but as a pathway to understanding yourself. Semper fidelis, brother.
Swift Chuck


Yeah, from my understanding, they didnt offer any PTSD counseling through the VA during the Vietnam Era.

No matter what war-era, though, all the symptoms are the same. People telling you that you're not acting like yourself is a big heads up. Im guilty of the alcohol abuse myself...I wish I caught it earlier, because maybe I could have avoided this DUI I got about 3 weeks ago. I remember coming home from my first tour in Iraq in 2003, and I'd sit in the barracks by myself taking shots of Jack Daniels and Jagermeister. At the time, I didnt realize it was a serious problem. We're Marines, we love to drink! But eventually it HAS become a problem. Thankfully theres help out there now through the VA to take care of such a disorder.

-CPL Maines:usmc:

[David Jameson]

PS.--If your moving request your records be sent to the VA hospital near you AFTER you re locate.NOT before.And for all you people out there with problems .I would ask you might consider looking for work with the VA.You would all be able to relate and help because you can relate. You might find it helps you also.Have a good weekend

[Warmachine0352]

I have to fill my every waking hour with positive activity,

This is totally true. If I have spent the whole day on productive work, and kicking my ass into doing fulfilling things every minute of the day I can actually sleep when I get home.

[maverickmarine]

Hey Marine,

I got out in 1995 and have experienced similar things ever since. I didn't go get help, well I tried and had the same crap with the VA so gave up. I went through hell the first 5 or 6 years and then started reaching out to my Marine Corps family at the Marine Corps League, friends of mine that are Marines and have seen combat, hell even just other combat vets and even some on here. I just started actually talking about it and it made it much better. Now, don't get me wrong, I still don't sleep well, the nightmares are still there, but not as often, I still eyeball the area for what I joking call "people plottin' on me", but you know why I do it and what i'm talking about and I do still do some drinking. However, it has been 100 times better since I at least started talking about it and believe or not you are taking your first step by posting here. Oh, and I totally get the 15 showers a day. I did that too and it does lighten up but I still take several. I think it has a little to do with not being able in many situations and also a feeling of washing away what you're feeling. Let me know if there's anything you need. Good luck to you as well.

Semper Fi.

[Warmachine0352]

yeah for some reason I take like 3 baths a day. I dont know why, just makes me feel better.

[Riven37]

Yeah i'm currently in a OPC in tallahassee. I'm trying to work with the Vets Center for the counseling part cause they are not a busy as our tinny little OPC here. But still who knows, i'm outta FL here in a few months and off to AL with my wife so she can get her PHd and they have a VA hospital right there on campus so maybe ill have better luck. I seem to think my Head Doc at my MH OPC is just there to fix my meds and **** not there to hear me, but thats is alot of my falut cause i don't open up. Well thanks man. KILL!


You know, some of the best help you can ever receive from yourself is hook up with those men you served with. Many Nam vets like myself, still search for those we were with, and many like myself come up empty handed. If you still know the men you served with hook back up with them. Start a yearly get together, and talk about those times in Iraq, I a sure you, it will be best help you can receive than any VA can help you with. I believe today, if I was able to fine any of the men I knew still alive I would have been better off.

The VA system is all about the numbers, and not about the men who served. I am 100 disabled 80% PTSD, 20 % Unemployable plus other health conditions. I've went through two Combat Stress Units only feel worse then better. I've gone through 3 marriages, years of alcoholism now sober & clean 25 years. Parts of my brain have gone through changes due to PTSD as we all experience but few know about. I still Isolate myself, and limited my time around too many people. I avoid wide open spaces, crowded places, I still scan the ground when walking, I don't hunt, I haven't handle a weapon since Nam. I still have my nightmares, sweats, shacking hands, hearing voices in the night, I still see the faces of old buddies I once knew. I still feel I deserve little for what I've done during my tour of duty. I still feel I should have died while other should have lived because they were better then I. I could go on, and on however my point is no one will ever understand you except for those men who were with you at that time. Today, the Iraq Veterans have better documentation on the War then Nam Vets did. Use that product, fine those men, buddies, stay close, keep in touch with each other or you will one day wish you had.

[BMATT]

It is a step at a time...in doing this, we live "in the moment".
This is critical for all of us...yesterday is history, tomorrow is
mystery...all we have is the here and now!
I'm not saying to ignore the trauma, embrace it and make a
fervent effort to process and heal yourself. We are all, regardless
of what we have done, entitled to happiness...IT IS OUR BIRTHRIGHT!!!
SEMPER FI!!!

[MotivatorOfTheGuard]

For the record Marines, do not forget, that this community can be a tool for you as well. Many of the Marines here i know are willing to be there to listen and offer encouragment and advice whenever needed. Whether its from some salty SNCO who remembers "the bush", or even a Marine still on active duty. We are all here for each other. Marines take care of their own, and if you cannot find what you need at the VA, don't hesitate to talk to someone here.

Semper Fi Marines, You are in my prayers.
:flag:

[Sterge]

The good news is that you are not alone, the bad news is that you are not alone. I read through the advice given by your fellow Marines, and they are all right. The problem is you may not be getting the consistent and necessary counseling and coping skills training you need to deal with the "here and now." In Batavia, New York, there is an outstanding PTSD in-patient program, as well as an out-patient group program designed for combat veterans. We also have a Veterans Court and other services that are ramping up to help all veterans returning from OIF and Afghanistan. You can find out if there are similar services available to assist. The idea is to get veterans diverted from (for example) criminal, domestic violence, and civil court and into the services they need. You may also want to seek out the services of a private psychologist or psychiatrist who specializes in combat-related PTSD.

As far as your symptoms are concerned, they are normal for what you have experienced, and are actually a sign of health-if you did not have these symptoms following everything you saw and did, that would be a sign of significant mental illness. What you are experiencing now is your body and mind's way of dealing emotionally with all the **** you had to do, see, and feel. The mind has a way of shielding itself during the traumatic or high-stress situation so you can continue to function-it is a defense mechanism. Now that you are in a place of safety, your mind is essentially unwinding itself. With regard to your 50% PTSD disability, you may want to go back and ask for a re-evaluation. That may help with compensation that you can then use to search more consistent and more frequent avenues of counseling and help.

[Sterge]

I quickly re-read your symptoms-part of the problem of being a civilian woman who is in love with a Marine is the lack of comprehension as to what her man has gone through. I would recommend, to both of you, Lt. Col. Dave Grossman's books "On Killing" and "On Combat." I would also recommend "Marine Sniper" and "Blood Stripes." While they do not possibly put someone in a position to know what combat feels like, it is a starting point for understanding, patience, and discussion. One of the problems with relationships upon a Marine or soldier's return is that he or she believes the partner will not understand, is unable, unwilling, or is burdened by knowledge. The burden a partner feels is not knowing what is going on, feeling boxed out, and feeling helpless. While civilians will never understand combat related PTSD, they do understand love, nurturing, and compassion, and are able to provide that. I truly do believe that the greatest sacrifice is not the injuries or death on the battlefield, but the life that the veteran comes home to after war. You cannot rewind the clock once having your eyes open, and that loss of comfortable innocence or naivety replaced by pain and memory is probably the toughest loss of all. There is a light at the end of the tunnel, however. It can be a rough road ahead, but if you allow yourself the room to go through the counseling and allow your wife to love you, because you are loved, and you are lovable, you can have a good life. You have earned it. Keep at it, the danger is over.

[gunnyhiles]

My wife and I went to the Wall for the 10th Anniversary. We got there several days before the ceremony. On our 1st day we down and viewed and visited, no problem, all went well. Later that evening around 2300 we went again, the transformation was almost eerie. I felt weak and scared like there were men whose names were there asking why I came back but they didn’t, the same question I asked myself daily. As I exited the Wall there was a single tent still up and a young lady there. We went over and she asked if we would sign her petition. It was for Nam Vets and I signed it. Then she asked if I was in Vietnam, I said yes. Then she said something no one else had said to me, “Welcome Home”. I literally fell to pieces right there. When we got home after a few days, I was at work when this terrible feeling came over me. I had seen my Dr. for depression and was on meds, but until then the Nam did not link with my condition. He said to get in and see him right away. Long story short I was having a breakdown and was admitted to the “Shrink” hospital. Having Tricare (Champus) and work insurance I was good financially. I stayed for 2 weeks while my meds were stabilized and got in group discussion with others that experienced what I had. That was some 20+ years ago. I am still on meds, have a PTSD VA rating along with other combat related wounds that have approached 90%. That was back when AOL and Prodigy were about the only online services that allowed some sort of dialog. Eventually we grew into a community of Nam Vets representing all branches. Then for about 8 years we would all meet in DC over Memorial Day, visit the Wall and share what only we can share. Long story short, it was therapeutic for us all, but we had to be willing to open up. Sitting at a keyboard has advantages, you are more willing to talk, and most important, listen. As the years go by I remember less of the bad and remember the good, oh yea, there were good times. Now I’m 70, my memory adjusts itself to sometimes being confused from past events which might be a good thing. Maybe the Moderators will start a Room where we can meet and talk like we did on Prodigy.

[yellowwing]

My Apache Bro is a combat Veteran. 40 years later he still has episodes. Its part of your life now. Deal with it or suffer. The sooner the better.

[PANTHER50]

I went to what was the Viet Nam Vet Center IN 1982 and they told me I had PTSD? I didnt know what they were talking about. I though It was normal since I spent a 17 month tour IN V.N. 68/69.The problem Is I still have it 40 years later. It can a will lead to pysical problams over the long haul. Get good treatment,if your not find a place were you can get it.If you can reajust do it. your only as good as you treate yourself. S/F John

[Riven37]

39 years later I still feel like I'm not home, and that welcome home saying is so hollow to my ears. I know, I will die messed up, and that's OK. It belongs to me.

[PANTHER50]

I know what you mean,but it does mean something.It means something to you. It,s like rideing down a road with a lot of hills and valley,s.One day you can take on the world and win,the next you do,nt know what day it is and do,nt care.To hell with what everybody think,s.I,ve never come home and never will (long storey), but I manage to keep going at least enough to get by.I know Ill never be like John Q public and after all these years I dont what to be.
S/F Marine John J

[jimmie]

i live in alabama i get 30% for pstd... i ran over a land mine the sweepers missed and wore a body cast for 6 months or longer i have a freind who is 100 % on pstd he stayed in the mental hospital all he talks about is veitnam this 'nam that it drives me crazy i dont keep guns in the house or very sharp knives i went for my re-eval 3 months ago they were supposed to send me refills of my meds (seraquil) still havent got it my back legs arm and shoulder is messed up due to the land mind but the va says it was because i fell at the skating rink the night before i left for boot i took my bro and sisters i was 17 when i joined volintarily my freind gets mad beccause i wont talk about it i cant i cant find the words to describe the things i saw and the things that had to be done to survive over there so i yell cuss pitch a fit what ever you want to call it i have to sleep on the couch by the door i will not live in a house that has a back door cuz i cant whatch them both how can i explain to my family what it was like being in a foxhole with a guy just a few yards away and not be able to talk to him just to find out if hes still alive? i feel sometimes that the va dont really care about us from the veitman era, heck i've got skin cancer from head to toes i cant even get the va docs to tell me if agent orange caused it it took me almost 2 yrs to be able to see a real dr instead of a nurse practictioner sorry to gripe so much i have so much bottled up inside its like a bomb fixing to go off

[PANTHER50]

I do,nt talk to most of my family JIMMIE, I know that part of them care for me but there afraid of me. They watch tv and all the bull**** they say,but they were not there and do,nt understand. DONT expect them to.Do not think about day to day event,s in v. n.I know a lot of it is in the back of your mind and will most likley allway,s be.Date,s something you see or hear will set you off and you dont know what it is most of the time.Sometimes just sitting under a shade tree help,s more than a pill will and clear your mind.(VA)THERE,S NOTHING FAIR ABOUT VA.You have to back everything with a civilan doc.If your V.S.O. Officer is not helping you find one who will, a smart one that cares can help you a lot.there are docs out there freindly to vets! Do,nt be afraid to appeal.Go were you have to go to get a fair deal!
S/F John J

[Riven37]

Tomorrow I see a new psych doc, I've been angry most of the time lately. The bad part is this new psych doc is only in her 20's, and I am not going to spill my guts for a kid. Some of my anger is directed towards the VA because they know this Nam vet can't relate to a 20 year old when it comes to my experiences.

[Riven37]

i live in alabama i get 30% for pstd... i ran over a land mine the sweepers missed and wore a body cast for 6 months or longer i have a freind who is 100 % on pstd he stayed in the mental hospital all he talks about is veitnam this 'nam that it drives me crazy i dont keep guns in the house or very sharp knives i went for my re-eval 3 months ago they were supposed to send me refills of my meds (seraquil) still havent got it my back legs arm and shoulder is messed up due to the land mind but the va says it was because i fell at the skating rink the night before i left for boot i took my bro and sisters i was 17 when i joined volintarily my freind gets mad beccause i wont talk about it i cant i cant find the words to describe the things i saw and the things that had to be done to survive over there so i yell cuss pitch a fit what ever you want to call it i have to sleep on the couch by the door i will not live in a house that has a back door cuz i cant whatch them both how can i explain to my family what it was like being in a foxhole with a guy just a few yards away and not be able to talk to him just to find out if hes still alive? i feel sometimes that the va dont really care about us from the veitman era, heck i've got skin cancer from head to toes i cant even get the va docs to tell me if agent orange caused it it took me almost 2 yrs to be able to see a real dr instead of a nurse practictioner sorry to gripe so much i have so much bottled up inside its like a bomb fixing to go off


Jimmie,

Some guys are just stuck in time inside their own heads, I

[Petz]

I am diagnosed with PTSD and rated at 50% on the first go around. Well I was wondering if these symptoms are common cause its really ****in me off. First out of many, is that I have become unreliable which aggravates me because this is unlike myself. Which brings me to another ‘symptom’ of being angry all the time I will go off on people for reasons unknown to me. They can just say one word or sentence or do something very insignificant and I will go off the wall. I can’t seem to want to get myself out of the house or be around anybody. I have no friends (other than my marine buddies that I can talk “Marine” with), I keep myself out of just about every situation I can think of by coming up with excuse sometimes even becoming violently ill thinking about doing something as simple as going to a restaurant. Also my short term memory is completely shot I forget stuff im attempting to do or where I parked my car. Which in turn ****es me off I was at the mall the other day and had to leave cause of the crowed of people and went out to find my car and well I wondered the parking lot till the mall cop pulled me over and said I looked like I was going to break into a car. I lost it. Apparently I go nuts sometimes at night and my wife says I get this complete blank look on my face and she cant snap me out of it for awhile. Dreams are horrible visions of death and slow-motion replays of m time in Iraq. Sleep is a rarity the VA has me on ambien but I don’t want to get hooked on it so I only take it once and awhile and even than I only sleep for like 4 hours. My normal night consists of TV leatherneck.com and xbox till about 04-05, than I go to lay next to my wife and sit there staring at the ceiling thinking about Iraq, marines that have been lost or even about someone breaking into my house and the ways i could dispatch them to hell. Many times i have found myself "patrolling" the perimeter of my house cause i'm paranoid. Finally after sometimes 2 hours of that I just crash. Than I wake up and the damn process starts all over again. Also I haven’t been able to stop taking like 15 showers a day for like almost the last 2 years, counting steps according to my pace count and stupid little **** like that. I can’t talk about the **** that happened over there to my wife and she understands but I want to but its so freaking hard to explain to someone who hasn’t been there. There is so much more but those are the basics and now my fingers hurt from typing lol. So I know it’s a lot to take in Marines but if you have been diagnosed with PTSD could you let me know if any of these match your ‘symptoms’? It’d much appreciated.
Cpl. Butler (0311 EAS 07/21/2006)


I skimed through your post and I can relate to a lot of what you said... to include the short term memory thing.... My wife is also ****ed at my horrible temper that I have gotten since my last deployment.... are you 50% JUST for PTSD?


as for the sleep... I have trouble being tired... but as soon as my head hits the pillow I'm out... you know how you always try to get sleep when you can? yeah... even after 10 hours of sleep on my days off, if I lay down with my daughter so she takes her nap, I'm out right along side her.....


sorry for being out of sequence there... I went back and read more of your short story.

[Riven37]

I do,nt talk to most of my family JIMMIE, I know that part of them care for me but there afraid of me. They watch tv and all the bull**** they say,but they were not there and do,nt understand. DONT expect them to.Do not think about day to day event,s in v. n.I know a lot of it is in the back of your mind and will most likley allway,s be.Date,s something you see or hear will set you off and you dont know what it is most of the time.Sometimes just sitting under a shade tree help,s more than a pill will and clear your mind.(VA)THERE,S NOTHING FAIR ABOUT VA.You have to back everything with a civilan doc.If your V.S.O. Officer is not helping you find one who will, a smart one that cares can help you a lot.there are docs out there freindly to vets! Do,nt be afraid to appeal.Go were you have to go to get a fair deal!
S/F John J

Your right on how we think, I felt a bit bad reading Jimmies writing about hitting a mine trigger. I was a sweeper of and on, not saying it was I but the word association of mine sweeper, and some of my experiences causes that trigger inside me, ties to my feelings allowing me to feel bad about Jimmie's wounds; then I feel real sad for the lost of a friend KIA by a 'Bouncing Betty'.

Sitting under a shade tree is OK so long its not in the open fields, near a treeline because I am sure I'll start seeing things like the majority of you have one time or another.

[PANTHER50]

You may teach her a thing or two Riven37.New is not allways bad . VA allway,s makes me mad.Give her a try if you cant relate tell her so. I,VE done it.One old psych lied about me one time. I requested another visit with the same guy and told him about it.
S/F John J

[Riven37]

You may teach her a thing or two Riven37.New is not allways bad . VA allway,s makes me mad.Give her a try if you cant relate tell her so. I,VE done it.One old psych lied about me one time. I requested another visit with the same guy and told him about it.
S/F John J

Had my visit, she wasn't to bad, she asked me more question about what she has heard about other workers lol So, I gave her an ear full. I see her in 4 weeks she'll try to find me another group for me.

[PANTHER50]

I am glad to hear it Riven37. Good luck!!
S/F John J

[jimmie]

with so much crap going on over there at that time i cant lay the blame at anyones dorrstep. i may hve been hurt i may have hurt for a long time but im alive and im free my kids are blessed everyday for the freedoms they have id go back in tomorrow if i could

[PANTHER50]

with so much crap going on over there at that time i cant lay the blame at anyones dorrstep. i may hve been hurt i may have hurt for a long time but im alive and im free my kids are blessed everyday for the freedoms they have id go back in tomorrow if i could
I would to jimmie! I feel the same.I want the people that are in it right now know that Marines like me and you understand.
S/F John J

[MillRatUSMC]

Poke the brains of a lot Vietnam veterans, we been there and done that, and we're willing to listen.
I too came back very angry and I never knew why a small thing would set me off.
Try to drown some of my memories in a bottle, that only made things worst.
Till one day, it finally dawn on me that I wasn't God, what happened was out my control and what happen, I could finally meet head on.
Seeing that we're all military or Marines, what would be a normal reaction on seeing so much wounding or death, it was denied us, so we -in the words of another Marine, we just held it inside us.
But all we held inside has a way of coming out, than we have to deal with it.
PTSD isn't a weakness but a normal re-action of the mind and body of what we dealt with on a day to day bases.
For some it comes right a way, for others it might be a lot of years down the line.
We also re-act to smells, loud sounds and even people who resemble those we saw where ever we served.
I'm just taking things off my mind and how we dealt with them.
Oh! I almost forget 'survivor guilt', times we might question, 'why did I survive and others died',
That's a normal re-action but one that doesn't have an answer.
Times I think I survived, so I could be here to offer whatever I can.

[tgwkreu7]

if you don't get any response from the VA hospital or a VA office do what i did i wrote a letter to the secretary of VA and stated my problem to him that is what he is there for in no time i hade a letter to report to ther VA hospital and i also had help from the DAV they were with me when i had to state my case in person i won my case give it a shot you have nothing to lose and everything to gain--
jarhaedjoe11

[PANTHER50]

Listen to what these Marines are trying to tell you. VA and A lot of people in the system do not care! You have to fight for your rights. Long and short term PTSD can and will do you harm . I know a lot of you read this and think you mite have it and say nothing . Deal with it.If you want to deal with it in your own way fine,but alcohol is not the answer in the long term.theres to much to say .
S/F John J

[jimmie]

my oldest kid reads alot and even though she says you never understand until you hike a mile in another duDes shoes she dont put up with my bull... she hands it right back to me ( a marines daughter thru and thru) i had a bad flashback when she was 14 i dont remember it but she pulled me thru it snapped me back to reality she could be a shoulder for anyone she may not have ever been there but she listens really listens i tell her the fun stuff AND i have to say even thru all the bad was alot of good times and really good people
GOOD NIGHT MARINES WHEREVER YOU ARE

[PANTHER50]

my oldest kid reads alot and even though she says you never understand until you hike a mile in another duDes shoes she dont put up with my bull... she hands it right back to me ( a marines daughter thru and thru) i had a bad flashback when she was 14 i dont remember it but she pulled me thru it snapped me back to reality she could be a shoulder for anyone she may not have ever been there but she listens really listens i tell her the fun stuff AND i have to say even thru all the bad was alot of good times and really good people
GOOD NIGHT MARINES WHEREVER YOU ARE
It does,nt get much better than that,to have a loved one who loves back! MY Wife does it for me yes I finaly found one who can or she found me I dont know.
S/F John J

[FistFu68]

:usmc: WELCOME HOME MARINES :usmc: :iwo:

[PANTHER50]

This is the kind of stuff you get from a very wise person. He said little but said much.
S/F John J

[tenyearsgone28]

you mentioned forgetting things in your post. That's also a sign of a traumatic brain injury. Tell your primary care/therapist and they'll get you tested. It also comes into play during disability claims.

[Riven37]

Poke the brains of a lot Vietnam veterans, we been there and done that, and we're willing to listen.
I too came back very angry and I never knew why a small thing would set me off.
Try to drown some of my memories in a bottle, that only made things worst.
Till one day, it finally dawn on me that I wasn't God, what happened was out my control and what happen, I could finally meet head on.
Seeing that we're all military or Marines, what would be a normal reaction on seeing so much wounding or death, it was denied us, so we -in the words of another Marine, we just held it inside us.
But all we held inside has a way of coming out, than we have to deal with it.
PTSD isn't a weakness but a normal re-action of the mind and body of what we dealt with on a day to day bases.
For some it comes right a way, for others it might be a lot of years down the line.
We also re-act to smells, loud sounds and even people who resemble those we saw where ever we served.
I'm just taking things off my mind and how we dealt with them.
Oh! I almost forget 'survivor guilt', times we might question, 'why did I survive and others died',
That's a normal re-action but one that doesn't have an answer.
Times I think I survived, so I could be here to offer whatever I can.


Well said !!

[Riven37]

It doesn't get much better than that,to have a loved one who loves back! MY Wife does it for me yes I finally found one who can or she found me I don't know.
S/F John J

Then you have the other side of the coin where love ones leave, go away because of your odd behaviors to them but you know you're normal; whatever normal is. Walking my property at night is normal to me but not to love ones, they'll think you a bit off but never said it to you right !

[Riven37]

Well said !!

I remember standing in front of my bathroom mirror talking to my self saying OK witch will it be booze or drugs ! I chose booze. From 1971 to 1983 I placed my faith in the bottle, I mean my whole faith. Toward the end I was drinking in the mornings, having more, and more flashbacks, and more violent ones. I knew I had to stop drinking because it wasn't doing what I thought it would do for me. Sure at first, it may have help me to sleep but it was short lived. What it did do is my drinking had suppressed my memories for those 12 years; however, there was a price paid for my dumb idea. Three marriages, and two kids all gone....I live alone, in nearly total isolation with antisocial behaviors. Yep ! there was a price I paid...So you new Vets of Iraq don't think booze will help ya it wont.

[PANTHER50]

I bought 10+acers in the 80s finaced by the Vetrans land board lived in a tee pee on it for two years,built a small house with other Vets help (labor).You have to call to come in here Its fenced, not many people do. I tell my current Wife if she wants company to go visit them she seems ok with it.As long as I pay 180.00 a month I can stay here.As long as shes ok with it she can stay here. Right or wrong thats the way it is. I find some what peace here.We like to ride my H.D. when possible.Theres a life worth living for everyone out there.
S/F John J

[Riven37]

I bought 10+acers in the 80s finaced by the Vetrans land board lived in a tee pee on it for two years,built a small house with other Vets help (labor).You have to call to come in here Its fenced, not many people do. I tell my current Wife if she wants company to go visit them she seems ok with it.As long as I pay 180.00 a month I can stay here.As long as shes ok with it she can stay here. Right or wrong thats the way it is. I find some what peace here.We like to ride my H.D. when possible.Theres a life worth living for everyone out there.
S/F John J

You sound like, just short of a trip wire .... does your wife realize she's your point man lol Have you tried booby traps like those toe poppers lol...God we're all so twisted.

[PANTHER50]

I,am to hard.my wife is to soft hearted so the mix works well.It was about 20 years from the first wife 1982 she didnt last long till this one 2001.And I did have booby traps till about 94 just in side the wire.I raise my own beef,heat my house with wood, grow vegatables,mix a little deer meat in once in a wile.I work for my self now much better! Like I said theres life worth living out there for all of us Riven37 you just have to find your own thing.I take the point here and everybody around here knows it and respects it.
S/F John J

[PANTHER50]

There are State sponsered low interist loans in most states now.With a low down payment.Land , home improvment,build a home ect.A lot of them are better than the fed loan program. We have to many VETS on the street! Look on your states web site.

[Riven37]

I,am to hard.my wife is to soft hearted so the mix works well.It was about 20 years from the first wife 1982 she didn't last long till this one 2001.And I did have booby traps till about 94 just in side the wire.I raise my own beef,heat my house with wood, grow vegetables,mix a little deer meat in once in a wile.I work for my self now much better! Like I said there's life worth living out there for all of us Riven37 you just have to find your own thing.I take the point here and everybody around here knows it and respects it.
S/F John J

Yeah I hear ya. Three time the wives here, and no more of that. I did my life, my life just didn't do me.

[Riven37]

There are State sponsered low interist loans in most states now.With a low down payment.Land , home improvment,build a home ect.A lot of them are better than the fed loan program. We have to many VETS on the street! Look on your states web site.

Who me ? I own my own LZ ....

[CORPSVET]

I have surveyed 5 previous wives-something about intimacy and the ability to reach someone on an "Inner level". You don't have to live on a mountain to be alone.

[Riven37]

I have surveyed 5 previous wives-something about intimacy and the ability to reach someone on an "Inner level". You don't have to live on a mountain to be alone.


:confused: what mountian / I don't live on a mountain never did. :confused:

[Riven37]

I have surveyed 5 previous wives-something about intimacy and the ability to reach someone on an "Inner level". You don't have to live on a mountain to be alone.

and I thought I was bad with 3 wives. They all called me cold harted telling me I'm a person without feelings among other nice words. But did those wives of mine push on me to talk about Nam, and I did against my better judgement thinking it would be OK; they all ran away calling me nuts !!!! Hum, I'm not nuts. I isolate, live alone, I talk to my self; may be I am nuts big No. 10 Dinky Dau.:banana:

[PANTHER50]

and I thought I was bad with 3 wives. They all called me cold harted telling me I'm a person without feelings among other nice words. But did those wives of mine push on me to talk about Nam, and I did against my better judgement thinking it would be OK; they all ran away calling me nuts !!!! Hum, I'm not nuts. I isolate, live alone, I talk to my self; may be I am nuts big No. 10 Dinky Dau.:banana:
Well I would bet that most of you guy,s thought you would never live this long, but you have.You need to find your own LZ were ever that,s at . V.A. will only rate you and most likey **** you off even more. Some Vet center,s are better than other,s.Most will always have PTSD.And when it comes wright down to it the one you have to please is you and no one can do that but you.
S/F John J

[Riven37]

Well I would bet that most of you guy,s thought you would never live this long, but you have.You need to find your own LZ were ever that,s at . V.A. will only rate you and most likey **** you off even more. Some Vet center,s are better than other,s.Most will always have PTSD.And when it comes wright down to it the one you have to please is you and no one can do that but you.
S/F John J

lol I've been running ahead of the Ripper for all my life, nearly had me in Nam a few times but I walked away. Back in the world I rapped my car around a tree, and walked away from that too. I had a heart attack 5 years ago, and walked away from that...I'm sure, and I know there is a bullet out there with my name on it, its all about when. I never see my name in the death notices each week so I must still be a live.:banana:

[PANTHER50]

I know what you mean.I,ve dodged the Ripper many times in the last forty years, but I,ve SURVIED it all AND SO HAVE YOU Riven 37.I think were on this Form to tell the young ones that long term stress/PTSD can cause a heart attack and many other things. Its not to be played with! So you see you do have a place in life.
S/F John J

[Riven37]

I know what you mean.I,ve dodged the Ripper many times in the last forty years, but I,ve SURVIED it all AND SO HAVE YOU Riven 37.I think were on this Form to tell the young ones that long term stress/PTSD can cause a heart attack and many other things. Its not to be played with! So you see you do have a place in life.
S/F John J




OK, Father John lol

[PANTHER50]

I was the #114 VN Vet to walk through the door of the local Vet (1982) center on my second visit they told me I had PTSD.VA has told me the same on many visits.I am not trying to prove anything to anybody because I dont have to. I BELIEVE that self help is the path to walk down because if you dont help yourself nobody else will.
S/F Father John (I kind of like that thanks Riven37)

[Riven37]

I was the #114 VN Vet to walk through the door of the local Vet (1982) center on my second visit they told me I had PTSD.VA has told me the same on many visits.I am not trying to prove anything to anybody because I dont have to. I BELIEVE that self help is the path to walk down because if you dont help yourself nobody else will.
S/F Father John (I kind of like that thanks Riven37)


Hum, self help meaning what exactly father John; counseling ! reading do it yourself books, find GOD I left him in Nam; build a fine bunker out post laid with concertina wire, booby traps, claymores; sorry no air support etc...

[PANTHER50]

Hum, self help meaning what exactly father John; counseling ! reading do it yourself books, find GOD I left him in Nam; build a fine bunker out post laid with concertina wire, booby traps, claymores; sorry no air support etc...
(Counseling) it helped at first to know I was,nt the only one going through this,but let,s face it after a while for some of us its turns in to the same old song and dance.Others like it and dont feel that way.(Do it your self books) I dont think so.(GOD) I will leave that one alone.I like to say I left Nam but Nam has never left me.I have had some good times in this life.If all or some of the above doesn,t work for you,it didnt me so I looked back to see what did .The good times mixed in along the way. Thats a form of self help and if you dont help your self nobody else will. It wont cure you but it makes life better. You have to walk your own path no one can do it for you.
S/F Father John

[Riven37]

(Counseling) it helped at first to know I was,nt the only one going through this,but let,s face it after a while for some of us its turns in to the same old song and dance.Others like it and dont feel that way.(Do it your self books) I dont think so.(GOD) I will leave that one alone.I like to say I left Nam but Nam has never left me.I have had some good times in this life.If all or some of the above doesn,t work for you,it didnt me so I looked back to see what did .The good times mixed in along the way. Thats a form of self help and if you dont help your self nobody else will. It wont cure you but it makes life better. You have to walk your own path no one can do it for you.
S/F Father John



lol you make me laugh....I've been in counseling since 1982, 9 years at vet center, rest at VA hospital. My therapist retired out, and I'm still here lol. I spent that much time in Rap Groups until the VA placed me out to pasture.

[PANTHER50]

lol you make me laugh....I've been in counseling since 1982, 9 years at vet center, rest at VA hospital. My therapist retired out, and I'm still here lol. I spent that much time in Rap Groups until the VA placed me out to pasture.
In post #29 you said you had a 20 year old that wouldnt under stand now you say va put you out to pasture ? This has all been with in a few days? The only one the laughs on is you. Whats wrong not rated like you want to be?Or do you want everybody to read this and say man that guy has got PTSD HES BAD. I started posting on this form to try to help the young ones and all IAM doing is posting to you the one who wears his PTSD like a badge of honor?
?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????

[jahhead88]

It definitely sounds like PTSD. I agree with the previous posts. Go get counseling at the VA or a local Vet Center. I hate to say this, but regarding your wife, she may never completely understand what you're going through. However, the VA offers counseling for spouse. You can find out more information at NCPTSD. VA.Gov. Or google Va National Center for PTSD.

[Riven37]

In post #29 you said you had a 20 year old that wouldnt under stand now you say va put you out to pasture ? This has all been with in a few days? The only one the laughs on is you. Whats wrong not rated like you want to be?Or do you want everybody to read this and say man that guy has got PTSD HES BAD. I started posting on this form to try to help the young ones and all IAM doing is posting to you the one who wears his PTSD like a badge of honor?
?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????

Oh, I meant the doctor was a 20 year. I'm sorry but a 20 year would understand my head nt one bit.

[Riven37]

I'm getting :confused:. I'm just talking here. Father John your confusing me.

[Riven37]

It definitely sounds like PTSD. I agree with the previous posts. Go get counseling at the VA or a local Vet Center. I hate to say this, but regarding your wife, she may never completely understand what you're going through. However, the VA offers counseling for spouse. You can find out more information at NCPTSD. VA.Gov. Or google Va National Center for PTSD.

Who are you speaking to, and what wife, I have no wife lol

[Riven37]

In post #29 you said you had a 20 year old that wouldnt under stand now you say va put you out to pasture ? This has all been with in a few days? The only one the laughs on is you. Whats wrong not rated like you want to be?Or do you want everybody to read this and say man that guy has got PTSD HES BAD. I started posting on this form to try to help the young ones and all IAM doing is posting to you the one who wears his PTSD like a badge of honor?
?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????

I did tell you to reply did I. I do not were my PTSD as a badge of honor that's just the counselor in me. Yes, I was a VA counselor now retired due to my PTSD. You, you act like your some kind of priest don't ya. As for us old dudes I guess you rather have us just go away, I can do that. No reply please, you have important help to do. :p

[PANTHER50]

I am not a preist or counselor if I have sounded like that to some of you I didnt mean it that way! I know that VA is full and under funded and the ones that work there who care are overloaded.I live near A town of 3000 people were I was born,since 1970 10 VN vets have taken there lives. The last early this month. I knew them all. That is with a county vetrans office 10 miles away.I DRIVE 80 miles to stay away from them! Thats part of what I mean when I say self help.If your not getting what you need go were you can.
John J