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BlindZeal08
03-02-08, 08:51 PM
Heinrich Severloh (born 23 June 1923 in Metzingen (now Eldingen), died 14 January 2006 in Lachendorf, both near Celle) was at the time of the Second World War a soldier in the German 352nd Infantry Division, which was stationed in Normandy in 1944. He rose to notoriety as a machine gunner in an emplacement known as “Widerstandsnest 62”, whose position allegedly allowed him to kill or injure 2000-2500 American soldiers caught while landing as part of Operation Overlord, according to his own claims. He has been referred to as the “Beast of Omaha Beach” in the media in English speaking countries.

Birth

Heinrich Severloh was born in 1923, the son of a farmer from the Lüneburg Heath region near Metzingen and near to Celle. Until his conscription, he had never had any grand intentions to join the war.

Service in the Wehrmacht

Heinrich Severloh was conscripted on the 23rd of July 1942, at the age of 19. He was allocated to the 19th Light Artillery Replacement Division in Hannover-Bothfeld. On the 9th of August, he was transferred to France and joined the 3rd Battery of the 321st Artillery Regiment, where he was trained inter alia as a dispatch rider. In December 1942, he was sent to the Eastern Front, where he was employed in the rear of his division as the driver of a sleigh.

As punishment for critical remarks, Severloh was required to carry out disciplinary exercises, which left him with permanent health problems. The immediate consequence was a lengthy stay in a military hospital, which lasted until June 1943, and which was followed by several weeks leave (partly because of the need for manpower during the harvest). In October 1943, Severloh was sent to junior officer training in Braunschweig, but after his unit, which had suffered heavy casualties, was transferred back to France, he was obliged to break off his training to rejoin it.

In December, Severloh reached his unit again, which had in the meantime been reclassified as the 352nd Infantry Division and was stationed in Normandy. Severloh’s service in the Wehrmacht ended on the 7th of June 1944, when he was taken prisoner by the Americans.


Widerstandsnest 62

The site of Severloh’s last active mission was a simple foxhole in the section of the “Omaha Beach” known as “Easy Red” by the Americans, close to the present site of the U.S. War Cemetery near Colleville. Severloh’s superiors had ordered him to use all means to drive back the landing Americans. His foxhole was part of a medium-sized emplacement known as “Widerstandsnest 62” (English: resistance nest 62), which was to become a turning point both in Severloh’s life and in that of his opponents in the space of several hours. In the absence of a well-developed defensive line, such “resistance nests” had been established along the Atlantic coast and allocated numbers for identification. There were radio and telephone connections between the various emplacements, and many were also within eyesight of one another. This meant that a coordination of firing lines was possible.

Severloh was assigned as an orderly to lieutenant Frerking. While Frerking coordinated the artillery fire of his battery from a bunker, the young Severloh manned a MG42. He fired on the waves of approaching American G.I.s with the machine gun and two Karabiner 98k rifles, using ammunition provided in a more or less permanent flow by comrades. By 3 p.m., Severloh had fired off approximately 12,000 rounds of machine gun ammunition and 400 rounds with the two rifles. According to experts, this resulted in an estimated 2000-2500 American deaths and injuries, before the G.I.s finally found a thinly manned gap between resistance nests 62 and 64 (directly below the site of the U.S. War Cemetery) and were thus able to attack Widerstandsnest 62 from behind and take it out (resistance nest 63 was a command centre in Colleville and not an emplacement).

Lieutenant Frerking’s artillery observation bunker and Widerstandsnest 62 still exist and can be visited at the beach below the village of Colleville in Normandy. The foxhole can only be vaguely discerned.

G.I. David Silva

One of the few survivors of Severloh’s MG salvoes was the 19-year-old G.I. David Silva, who was heavily injured in the incident. Severloh found David Silva’s name in a book about the invasion years after the war. Wanting to find this man that he had once shot at, Severloh wrote him a letter. Several months later, Severloh discovered that Silva was once more active in the U.S. Army and was stationed in Karlsruhe, Germany. It was there that they met for the second time. The erstwhile enemies became good friends and at the 2005 reunion of the Allied Forces in Normandy, Severloh and Silva met again. According to eyewitnesses, the two seemed to be “the best of friends”.

Captivity

Severloh was injured at Omaha Beach. He withdrew with one comrade to the nearby village of Colleville. He was taken captive by American soldiers whilst escorting American prisoners from a dugout to a prisoner collection point.

Severloh was released from captivity quite quickly, in 1947. He had first been sent as a prisoner of war to Boston in the USA, where he was held until May 1946. In December of the same year, he arrived in Bedfordshire in England, where he helped with the construction of roads. Severloh regained his freedom as the result of a request made by his father to the British military authorities, as Severloh was needed to work in the fields of his parents’ grange.

Psychological traumas

Heinrich Severloh told nobody apart from his wife about what he had experienced for many decades. He claims not to have realised what he was actually doing during the landings at Omaha Beach. Yet from time to time, he had been forced to resort to the two rifles he had because his machine gun had overheated. In so doing, he moved from the unconscious slaughter of nameless and faceless waves of soldiers to the targeted killing of a man. Severloh saw a man he had hit stop rigidly, saw his helmet fall to the beach, and saw how he folded over, bleeding heavily. In this moment, Severloh understood for the first time what he had been doing for hours with his MG42. Nonetheless, only when he was injured did the young soldier withdraw further inland to Widerstandsnest 63. He was captured on the 7th of June 1944 by the Americans.

Severloh buried his experiences in his mind, until one day a reporter directly asked him about them, having discovered that Severloh was thought to be the (in)famous “Beast of Omaha”. Severloh, who was by this time an old man, was relieved to be able to break his silence, and recounted what he had done on the day of the invasion. He also wrote a book about his experiences.

Most American war veterans who took part in the landing in Normandy have forgiven Severloh, or recognise that his actions were robot-like, according to his belief: “If I don’t shoot them, then one of them will shoot me”. In contrast, criticism and even open animosity towards Severloh is to be found amongst the descendents of these war veterans and amongst those of the fallen soldiers.

Beast of Omaha Beach

For decades, this title was given to the unknown German soldier who had so horribly impeded the G.I.s during the landing at “Easy Red”. Thousands of soldiers fell victim to the misplaced belief that this section of the beach and all of the Wehrmacht’s emplacements had already been cleared before the invasion.

As none of the Allied landing forces knew who had operated the MG42 for so many hours, it was impossible to punish anyone for this. The “Beast of Omaha Beach” was more or less still unknown until the last memorial reunion commemorating the landing of the Allies in Normandy.

When Severloh was taken captive, he knew that he could tell nobody, not even his comrades, how many men he had probably killed during the landing. He knew that he could be murdered if the Americans ever found out what he had done.

Further factors

According to Severloh, there were only two or three active emplacements with machine guns in his section of the beach at the time of the landing. The 19-year-old Franz Gockel positioned next to Severloh was in any case also armed with a machine gun. Whether and to what extent Severloh’s claims that just 30 soldiers defended the beach or that just two or three men were necessary to keep an entire armada of enemy soldiers at bay is unclear. There can however be no doubt that the emplacements were so tactically well placed that they could cover the beach with overlapping target areas. The few cannons available provided considerable support for the machine guns from their armoured positions, which had been built so as to be able to target the entirety of Omaha Beach. These were protected by concrete walls several metres thick from direct attack by enemy ship-borne artillery. This meant that they could not fire directly out to sea, but they were able to fire along the entire beach. These positions were almost all knocked out by invading tanks. Widerstandsnest 62 had in addition to its machine guns two Czech-made 7.62 cm field cannons; the neighbouring resistance nest had an 88 mm flak gun. Additional losses were caused to the U.S. troops by artillery fire from further inland. Meanwhile, many landing boats hit mines, exploded, sank, or burned.

The American G.I.s had from the outset bad tactical positions during the storming of the beach. Between the edge of the water and the dunes, there was a very wide, treacherous strip of sand to cover, which was completely flat and without cover. The preceding bombing of the German defensive positions had not produced concrete results. Severloh’s line of fire almost entirely included the sections of beach known as Easy Red and Fox Green. Furthermore, the Americans took several hours to pinpoint Severloh’s position. Only when the lack of standard combat ammunition led to the use of tracer ammunition instead were U.S. war ships able to locate Severloh’s foxhole and attack it with heavy artillery.

Moreover, Heinrich Severloh with his MG42 was forced back into his bunker at least twice as the result of precise grenade attacks and yet he returned to the position he had been ordered to hold each time and continued to fire. This was more the result of Severloh’s obedience than of a blind desire to fight. The bunker, which can still be visited today, is only a couple of square metres in size. It had been built as an observation post for an artillery spotter (on 6. June 1944, this was lieutenant Frerking). Some sources therefore claim that Severloh only stood in a foxhole beside it.

It is also notable that Severloh continued to fire using a rifle while he had to wait for both barrels of his MG42 to cool off (he only had access to one replacement barrel). Even with this quite slow weapon (it takes quite a long time to load in comparison to semi-automatic weapons), he was able to fire more than 400 times, until his rifle failed and had to be replaced. According to Severloh, even “kicking the loading lever” didn’t help any more, as the weapon had been distorted by heat.

Severloh’s loader was an unknown soldier who had arrived as with reinforcements from further inland. Severloh’s direct superior was lieutenant Frerking. When Frerking noticed that Widerstandsnest 62 had been bypassed and was being attacked from the side, he ordered a retreat. Frerking himself was hit in the head and killed by one of the invading soldiers a matter of seconds after Severloh had left the emplacement and was fleeing towards Colleville. Frerking was buried at the German War Cemetery in La Cambe.

His final years

In his final years, Severloh lived more happily and more at ease than ever before. The “personal redemption” from his horrible memories of this day that he achieved when he broke his silence had helped him to move on from his experiences. Meeting David Silva had also helped to encourage a process of healing and forgiving. Severloh died on the 14th of January 2006 in Lachendorf near his hometown of Metzingen.

Motto Poolee
03-02-08, 09:05 PM
I wonder if he went to hell?

BlindZeal08
03-02-08, 09:08 PM
................:devious:

crazymjb
03-02-08, 10:14 PM
I truely feel WWII, moreso than ever, was a battle between good and evil. While I recognize that the regular German army had no choice but to fight as they were conscripted, I don't think I can forgive any of them for what they helped to defend. This is a bit personal as I have family who survived the holocaust, and just lost an aunt who escaped hiding in the woods while her entire family was executed by the Germans.

**** em is all I have to say

Mike

Twehman
03-03-08, 01:23 AM
I truely feel WWII, moreso than ever, was a battle between good and evil. While I recognize that the regular German army had no choice but to fight as they were conscripted, I don't think I can forgive any of them for what they helped to defend. This is a bit personal as I have family who survived the holocaust, and just lost an aunt who escaped hiding in the woods while her entire family was executed by the Germans.

**** em is all I have to say

Mike

You can't really blame them. I am sure the punishment for refusal to fight was pretty severe in Nazi Germany. The SS, yeah, but you can't blame the German Army.

crazymjb
03-03-08, 10:34 AM
I understand, but I can't forgive them. Also, this guy clearly went above and beyond to help his cause...

Mike

BlindZeal08
03-03-08, 11:04 AM
What did you expect him to do, not keep fighting and let his country men get rolled by the allies? As far as he knew back then both sides were fighting for the same thing. Besides fighting to keep your brothers alive in the moment trancscendes whatever hind sight political bs we can come up with to make him seem like a monster over 60 years later. What he did was what all warriors are expected to do, and something you should be prepared to do if the chance ever arose. Granted, it would be absurd someone killed that many people in modern combat but....

I don't want this to go into politics, but if you think the allies were so rightous in WW2 you can go talk to 5 million indians the british starved to death, or the 2 million German civilians that got fire and carpet bombed to death, or the millions of Europeans that got slaughtered by the Soviets while the British and Americans watched it happening....Hell the Allies knew what was happening in the concentration camps, they were getting reports from resistance memebers as far back as before the war even started. They did nothing to help them. So lets not drag this into good vs evil debate.

He was a warrior, and this is his story.

Also if you care to read the entire thing, he got ****ed up really bad for talking bad about the Nazis. Gave him health problems for the rest of his life.

Motto Poolee
03-03-08, 12:24 PM
What did you expect him to do, not keep fighting and let his country men get rolled by the allies? As far as he knew back then both sides were fighting for the same thing. Besides fighting to keep your brothers alive in the moment trancscendes whatever hind sight political bs we can come up with to make him seem like a monster over 60 years later. What he did was what all warriors are expected to do, and something you should be prepared to do if the chance ever arose. Granted, it would be absurd someone killed that many people in modern combat but....

I don't want this to go into politics, but if you think the allies were so rightous in WW2 you can go talk to 5 million indians the british starved to death, or the 2 million German civilians that got fire and carpet bombed to death, or the millions of Europeans that got slaughtered by the Soviets while the British and Americans watched it happening....Hell the Allies knew what was happening in the concentration camps, they were getting reports from resistance memebers as far back as before the war even started. They did nothing to help them. So lets not drag this into good vs evil debate.

He was a warrior, and this is his story.

Also if you care to read the entire thing, he got ****ed up really bad for talking bad about the Nazis. Gave him health problems for the rest of his life.

Are you serious, fighting for his country!? WWII was not a war for the Nazis to fight for their country or cause. What happened to people in the war by the Nazis was horrible. Thats a horrible excuse man, and uncalled for. How can you respect somebody fighting for something like that?

BlindZeal08
03-03-08, 12:41 PM
All I can suggest is that you read something other than your 8th grade history book Motto. Just because your teacher covered WW2 in 2 weeks in class dosn't make you an expert in what people were fighting for. Generalizations and Bias dont make you an expert on WW2, period.

Twehman
03-03-08, 12:47 PM
I don't know Zeal, it is kind of messed up that you are sitting here praising a guy that mauled 2000+ American soldiers.

Sgt Leprechaun
03-03-08, 01:25 PM
Allright kids.

First, while I enjoyed the story, (its the first time I've heard it) I question the reason it was posted here.

It has nothing to do with Marines, the Marine Corps, or whatever else.

However, while the thread is still around (I predict it won't be much longer), some comments:

This soldier wasn't a nazi. Matter of fact, the 352nd Infantry Division was just a regular line infantry unit. Nothing more, nothing less. They weren't 'elite', but just a bunch of German grunts doing a job they were assigned to do. They had already done a tour on the Eastern front, as many units in Normandy had. They were combat vets already.

He did what he was assigned to do. Yes, that killed (the 2000 number is highly speculative in my opinion) many men and wounded more. He didn't torture anyone, kill women or children, etc. He did what he was supposed to do. He was on the opposite side while doing it.

You don't have to like what he did, or admire it. But hating it is wrong.

Oh, and I've been studying military history for longer than most you lads have been alive, and even helped make some history as a Marine. But I invite any and all comers that feel like debating to fire away.

Motto Poolee
03-03-08, 01:33 PM
I agree on some aspect Sgt. But not every German could be a Nazi. They were elite. He might have had that mind set. To me he did. It is not robotic to kill 2000 people okay...any way you put it. Sure it was is duty, but you must have some serious hate in you to mow down 1 person let alone 2000...come on? You cannot tell me that while this guy was killing all these people he wasn't cheering or feeling good about himself. The Germans knew what they were fighting for, they knew it all. It doesnt matter if he was serving water to the soldiers on the front or manning an LMG nest, he still supported the actions WWII led too. PERIOD.

BlindZeal08
03-03-08, 01:50 PM
It was posted here, because it's a true story of a warrior. And I thought Marines liked stuff like this, anyways....

This is the history of the start of the war Motto, because you obviously don't know anything about it. In 1939 it is suspected that the Nazis after taking power finally; Staged a false flag attack on the Reichstag. Under orders from Hitler they burned the Reichstag, and blaimed it on radical communist that were hell bent on destroying the German way of life and their culture. None of this is actually proven that the Nazis did it.

Hitler decreed this as an attack by socialist Poland, and found a Polish arsonist who actually was bragging that he would get the Riechstag burned. They blaimed it on him, and started **** with Poland.

The way it was presented to the German people, it sounded like their country was under attack by communists and socialists, particullarly Poland. After getting the country behind him, Hitler later staged another false flag attack and launched an invasion into Poland. To the German people this seemed justified. When Britain and France declared war on Germany, this started ww2, and to the Germans they were just defending themselves from their long time enemies and rivals, also the people that they felt were responsible for crippling Germany with the Versaille Treaty.

If you can rememeber something that happened on Septermber 11th, several of Americas famous buildings were attacked, and the entire country banded together, and wanted justice, and we went into Afghanistan to get the Taliban, and later into Iraq. Does it sound different to you in any way what so ever? Buildings attacked, nationalism, must destroy evil radicals, invasion, war.

So your whole theory that Germans were mostly evil people who caused ww2, is totally subjective and definantly debatable. As the same thing happened in 2001 with our country, and you support what we did and what were doing. So what would make you any different from one of the Germans in ww2. Nothing under your logic.

Motto Poolee
03-03-08, 02:01 PM
It was posted here, because it's a true story of a warrior. And I thought Marines liked stuff like this, anyways....

This is the history of the start of the war Motto, because you obviously don't know anything about it. In 1939 it is suspected that the Nazis after taking power finally; Staged a false flag attack on the Reichstag. Under orders from Hitler they burned the Reichstag, and blaimed it on radical communist that were hell bent on destroying the German way of life and their culture. None of this is actually proven that the Nazis did it.

Hitler decreed this as an attack by socialist Poland, and found a Polish arsonist who actually was bragging that he would get the Riechstag burned. They blaimed it on him, and started **** with Poland.

The way it was presented to the German people, it sounded like their country was under attack by communists and socialists, particullarly Poland. After getting the country behind him, Hitler later staged another false flag attack and launched an invasion into Poland. To the German people this seemed justified. When Britain and France declared war on Germany, this started ww2, and to the Germans they were just defending themselves from their long time enemies and rivals, also the people that they felt were responsible for crippling Germany with the Versaille Treaty.

If you can rememeber something that happened on Septermber 11th, several of Americas famous buildings were attacked, and the entire country banded together, and wanted justice, and we went into Afghanistan to get the Taliban, and later into Iraq. Does it sound different to you in any way what so ever? Buildings attacked, nationalism, must destroy evil radicals, invasion, war.

So your whole theory that Germans were mostly evil people who caused ww2, is totally subjective and definantly debatable. As the same thing happened in 2001 with our country, and you support what we did and what were doing. So what would make you any different from one of the Germans in ww2. Nothing under your logic.

Ya it does sound a bit different to me...I dont remember rounding up all the Jews and torturing them and burning them alive, men, women and children? Or did I miss us doing that.

BlindZeal08
03-03-08, 02:03 PM
That has nothing to do with what I just said. And that happened way after the war started.

Debating is one thing, but argueing just to argue is another I am done.

Sgt Leprechaun
03-03-08, 02:12 PM
I agree on some aspect Sgt. But not every German could be a Nazi. They were elite. He might have had that mind set. To me he did. It is not robotic to kill 2000 people okay...any way you put it. Sure it was is duty, but you must have some serious hate in you to mow down 1 person let alone 2000...come on? You cannot tell me that while this guy was killing all these people he wasn't cheering or feeling good about himself. The Germans knew what they were fighting for, they knew it all. It doesnt matter if he was serving water to the soldiers on the front or manning an LMG nest, he still supported the actions WWII led too. PERIOD.

Quite simply put, bullcrap.

You are ASSUMING that he killed 2000 people. And he did it because he was some kind of dedicated nazi superkiller or some such.

He 'knew' what his job was. "Hold this position".

So you are saying he 'supported' the actions WWII led to? A grunt does what he's told to do. He doesn't have the luxury of saying "No, I'm not going to fire this MG".

Note that he wasn't chained to the machine gun, nor did he 'fanatically' hold his position. When it became untenable, he retreated. He didn't 'fight to the death' or whatever.

You are putting motives on a low level grunt. If he was a prussian officer or some such, yeah, I'd buy off on it....but he's not.

Let's not get too high and mighty.

Sgt Leprechaun
03-03-08, 02:27 PM
Zeal, now I get your name.

Okkaay. Let's do some fact checking here.

First, the Concentration camp system was started in circa 1933-34 after the first of the "Nuremberg Laws" came into play. Among other things (gun confiscation, barring inter-racial marriage of jews and germans, germans and gypsies, etc) it also started the eventual downslide to "the camps".

The 'nazis', as you say, did the Reichstag fire in 1933 after Hitler was actually elected to the position of President. Paul von Hindenburg was Chancellor. The Reichstag burns, Hitler demands emergency powers that usurp the Republic and over rule the duly elected members of the Reichstag (or, German parliment, if you prefer). The fire was likely started by the Gestapo, (led at that time by Herman Goering) who planted a Dutch communist, named Marianas Van der Lubbe. He ended up in a concentration camp under a death sentence, which wasn't carried out until the 1940's if I recall.

(Yes, I'm doing this from memory, which is why there are no references listed).

Hitler in 1938 then annexes the Sudentenland, which was supposed to be de-militarized, under the terms of the Versailles treaty (WWI). He also marches troops into the Ruhr industrial district, another violation of the treaty. He and his generals both admit afterwards that if the French (who were responsible for administering the area) had resisted in any way, "it would have all been over".

Austria, then Czechoslovakia follows.

These were known at the time as the "War of the flowers", because in many places, people showered the German troops with flowers. Some of this was staged, but much of it was genuine.

Poland was attacked after a 'suprise' attack on a German radio station, called Gliewitcz, near the border, staged by the SS and using people from concentration camps (called 'canned goods') who were then executed on site, wearing Polish uniforms, as provocation for the invasion.

Britain and France, per treaty agreements with Poland, then declare war on Germany on 3 Sept 1939. BTW, there was no mass 'cheering in the streets' of Berlin like there was during August 1914. The German people knew well what they were getting into and weren't exactly 'jubilant' about it.

Now, if you are going to start comparing 1939 Germany with 2001 US, I think we are de-railing the train or doing the apples and oranges thing.

crazymjb
03-03-08, 04:27 PM
I understand he was fighting for his country, and at the moment may very well have been fighting for those next to him. That said, as I said, **** em. I don't go by the my country right or wrong thing.

I can't help not making this personal, and I aknowlege I am bias. Believe me, I know that the allies were far from perfect in their campaigns, from everything from turning away refugee ships to carpet bombing, and the disgusting overturning of rights of Japanese Americans. But we didn't start the war, and we didn't do what either the Japanese or Germans did.

These people built factories to exterminate people. They threw babies off roofs and used them as target practice. They used children for medical experimentation... Which segways into Japan's Unit 731 and Bataan and so fourth. The people who these countries produced to fight on their fronts really astound me. I don't know about any of you, but I would put one in my head before I did half the **** the Japanese and Germans did. Again, I have family that saw it all first hand. I have family that were murdered as children because they were Jewish. The old man up my street has a tatoo on his arm from the people who murdered his family.

Mike

Sgt Leprechaun
03-03-08, 04:36 PM
With the holocaust that is directly in your family, correct? Then I understand and fully emphasize with that.

As long as you acknowledge your bias, then you are ok.

That having been said, the grunts at the front lines hated the people running the camps and the camp guards almost as much as you do. They thought they were scum, pure and simple.

But I won't paint with the same brush camp guards and grunts. Nor will I paint with the same brush regular beat cops and traffic units in Germany with the SD or the Gestapo.

crazymjb
03-03-08, 04:45 PM
Yes, the holocaust directly effected my family. Fortunatly it wasn't my grandparents but many first cousins still living in Europe. The one who just lost a battle with cancer lost 8 brothers and sisters and her parents. If I recall she witnessed them being shot (read: executed). Somehow she escaped through the woods. And yes, I aknowlege my bias.

While I definitely recognize a difference between Nazis, and the SS, and the regular german military I still can't find myself ever sympathizing with them. Also, I don't understand how someone who landed on D-Day is able to forgive those they came up against. I know I certainly couldn't, but maybe thats a flaw on my part.

My misunderstanding comes in why so many more germans didn't try to defect. I know if the U.S. started rounding up all middle easterners and executing them (of course it wouldn't happen, but I am trying to draw a parallel) I would rather die than in any way support that. Heck, it would be easier than living with that... As soon as I saw any invading force I'd turn myself over. Alas it wasn't that easy...

Mike

ttracker65
03-04-08, 01:40 AM
how many women and children died at Hiroshima? It is not the job of ground troops to set the rules. Our job is to follow them to the best of our ability. When you start debating atrocity's you might as well through in the North American Indian and the millions that were wiped out by illness as well as the inslavement of our darker green brothers ancestors. The people of today are they ones we have to deal with not those of 50-60 years ago and they should be the focus.

SlingerDun
03-04-08, 02:45 AM
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</TD><TD class=alt1 id=td_post_326937><!-- icon and title -->Touching Story...from a "Marine Friend"
Hey f__k off


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Sgt Leprechaun
03-04-08, 05:40 AM
Mike, good on ya for steppin up.

Combat vets, as they get older, tend to forgive the grunt on the other side. This isn't wishful thinking but fact. It's quite common nowadays to see WWII vets getting together to BS about "the war" and trade stories. Interestingly, conflicts that are based on ideology (such as the Eastern Front) have far less of this than those based on 'war' in general.

Mike, you don't 'defect' because after all, it's your country. It's difficult to explain, though. Having read personal accounts of German soldiers fighting to the end of the war, one wonders the same thing sometimes, but it's a difficult thing to actually explain. Many of the German troops who fought it out around the Reichskanzellery above the Hitler bunker were actually French SS troops from the "Charlamagne" Division. They weren't even German nationals, for God's sake, but they fought to the bitter end.

Once you have actually 'been there' (and no disrespect is intended by this) a lot of the idealogic BS falls by the wayside and you fight for the guy beside you. It's not country, the cuff title on your sleeve, or the political party, but the grunt in the next hole. You don't want to let him down.

Once 'its over', and you survive, you can feel more charity for the OTHER guy in HIS hole, and you realize he was just trying to get thru the day like you were.