thedrifter
02-28-08, 01:20 PM
Liveblogging Afghanistan forum
UPDATE #2 - 7 p.m. - One correction. Col. David Lamm, former chief of staff to Lt. General David Barno (Ret.), former Commander of combined forces in Afghanistan, filled in for his old boss tonight. So every time Col. Lamm talked I thought it was Lt. Col. Barno. So I've gone back and corrected the references to Lt. Col. Barno to reflect that it was Col. Lamm who was actually speaking.
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UPDATE - 6:30 p.m.
A few more highlights.
Col. Lamm made a great point about the U.S. failure to catch Osama bin Laden so far. He pointed out that abortion clinic bomber Eric Rudolph eluded capture in the mountains of North Carolina for several years.
"And we were able to walk over that terrain, and walk dogs over that terrain, and couldn't find him," Col. Lamm said.
Mr. Coll said that bin Laden has acquired some sort of "spiritual status" among some Afghanis, and that the terrain and geography also make it an extremely difficult task to track him down.
Mr. Burns criticized the NATO partners again about their unwillingness to lead provincial reconstruction teams. "We need to see more buy in from some of our allies," he said.
Mr. Burns really bashed NATO a lot. For someone that former U.N. Ambassador John Bolton said was part of the internationally-minded group think at State, Mr. Burns certainly laid the wood to the international community a lot.
Mr. Schieffer then asked a final question about the future in Afghanistan.
Mr. Coll said that a major thing to watch is whether or not the Taliban can delay the elections in Afghanistan that are set for the fall of 2009. If they can, it would be "demoralizing," he said. The other panelists seemed to agree.
Mr. Burns said that a big task is to "convince Congress and our allies that this is a long term effort" and to put a stop to the production of poppies in Afghanistan, which produce heroin.
Poppies, Mr. Burns said, are "poisoning their society ... It's going to cripple that society if they don't get their arms around it."
Mr. Schieffer pointed out that the Taliban had stopped production of poppies when they were in power before the U.S-led coalition drove them out in late 2001 and early 2002.
Mr. Burns responded: "Here's the hypocrisy of the Taliban. Sure they were tough on it when they were in power but now they're living off it."
"But is there anything we can learn from them?" Mr. Schieffer asked.
"We actually can't use those types of methods," Col. Lamm said, drawing laughter from the crowd of about 250 or 300.
Col. Lamm also said that the fight in Afghanistan is "a 20-25 year, a generational effort, and it has to be an international effort."
_____
Bob Schieffer, CBS News' chief Washington correspondent, is hosting a panel on Afghanistan this evening at the Center for Strategic and International Studies.
The panel: Undersecretary of State R. Nicholas Burns, Steve Coll of The New Yorker, Lt. General David Barno (Ret.), fmr Commander, Combined Forces in Afghanistan, and Rick Barton, CSIS Senior Adviser.
The panelists spoke in the order I've listed them.
Mr. Burns listed the challenges in Afghanistan, and said what U.S. officials have been saying for a while now, that NATO is failing to step up and place international troops in the south and east, where the real fighting against al Qaeda and the Taliban is being done primarily by U.S. Marines.
Mr. Burns said NATO's long term viability is at stake: "If NATO cannot succeed in Afghanistan, it may have a very negative impact on its ability to move forward."
Mr. Burns also said that the large amount of economic aid flowing in to the country is not being efficiently organized, and that the United Nations should appoint a "high-powered" individual to organize the aid flows.
Mr. Coll's opening was a bit less cohesive. He hit a few different points.
Things there he said, are "going the wrong direction, but not so precipitously" that they can't be reversed.
He also said that IED attacks are appearing in Afghanistan, and it appears they are being imported from Iraq.
Col. Lamm said that the U.S.-NATO coalition is indeed chaotic.
"If the Taliban could have drawn up the organizational diagram that would inhibit the allies, they would have arrived at this conclusion," he said.
Mr. Barton said that the Afghani people's two biggest concerns haven't been addressed: personal safety and investment outside the capital of Kabul.
Mr. Barton also raised an issue that provoked some interesting discussion: helicopters. One year ago, he said, he was told that the coalition needed 70 to 100 helicopters in Afghanistan but had only 35, and that NATO has 4,000 in Europe but only 11 in Afghanistan.
"There is obviously a capacity opportunity," Mr. Barton said.
Mr. Burns said he didn't know if the 4,000 number was accurate but that "there are certainly thousands of helicopters available."
But "very few have made their way" into Afghanistan, Mr. Burns said, calling that "a major failing" of NATO's.
Mr. Coll once took the conversation in a slightly different direction when he said that he was "not convinced that the United States has the capacity to succeed in Iraq as the current policy foresees, and succeed in Afghanistan as the current policy foresees."
"This current policy will not prove sustainable," he said.
Then Col. Lamm, somewhat surprisingly, said he agreed with Mr. Coll. He pointed out that nearly 50 percent of the German electorate want out of Afghanistan altogether, and 80 percent wants nothing to do with south Afghanistan.
Col. Lamm also dismissed the helicopter debate.
"That's probably not the way to go about your strategy, flying over your problems ... we did that in Vietnam," he said.
He said that getting mixed diplomatic and military teams, or provincial reconstruction teams, out "interfacing with people every day" is what "secures the center of gravity [which is] the Afghani people."
More to come if they say more of interest.
Ellie
UPDATE #2 - 7 p.m. - One correction. Col. David Lamm, former chief of staff to Lt. General David Barno (Ret.), former Commander of combined forces in Afghanistan, filled in for his old boss tonight. So every time Col. Lamm talked I thought it was Lt. Col. Barno. So I've gone back and corrected the references to Lt. Col. Barno to reflect that it was Col. Lamm who was actually speaking.
-----
UPDATE - 6:30 p.m.
A few more highlights.
Col. Lamm made a great point about the U.S. failure to catch Osama bin Laden so far. He pointed out that abortion clinic bomber Eric Rudolph eluded capture in the mountains of North Carolina for several years.
"And we were able to walk over that terrain, and walk dogs over that terrain, and couldn't find him," Col. Lamm said.
Mr. Coll said that bin Laden has acquired some sort of "spiritual status" among some Afghanis, and that the terrain and geography also make it an extremely difficult task to track him down.
Mr. Burns criticized the NATO partners again about their unwillingness to lead provincial reconstruction teams. "We need to see more buy in from some of our allies," he said.
Mr. Burns really bashed NATO a lot. For someone that former U.N. Ambassador John Bolton said was part of the internationally-minded group think at State, Mr. Burns certainly laid the wood to the international community a lot.
Mr. Schieffer then asked a final question about the future in Afghanistan.
Mr. Coll said that a major thing to watch is whether or not the Taliban can delay the elections in Afghanistan that are set for the fall of 2009. If they can, it would be "demoralizing," he said. The other panelists seemed to agree.
Mr. Burns said that a big task is to "convince Congress and our allies that this is a long term effort" and to put a stop to the production of poppies in Afghanistan, which produce heroin.
Poppies, Mr. Burns said, are "poisoning their society ... It's going to cripple that society if they don't get their arms around it."
Mr. Schieffer pointed out that the Taliban had stopped production of poppies when they were in power before the U.S-led coalition drove them out in late 2001 and early 2002.
Mr. Burns responded: "Here's the hypocrisy of the Taliban. Sure they were tough on it when they were in power but now they're living off it."
"But is there anything we can learn from them?" Mr. Schieffer asked.
"We actually can't use those types of methods," Col. Lamm said, drawing laughter from the crowd of about 250 or 300.
Col. Lamm also said that the fight in Afghanistan is "a 20-25 year, a generational effort, and it has to be an international effort."
_____
Bob Schieffer, CBS News' chief Washington correspondent, is hosting a panel on Afghanistan this evening at the Center for Strategic and International Studies.
The panel: Undersecretary of State R. Nicholas Burns, Steve Coll of The New Yorker, Lt. General David Barno (Ret.), fmr Commander, Combined Forces in Afghanistan, and Rick Barton, CSIS Senior Adviser.
The panelists spoke in the order I've listed them.
Mr. Burns listed the challenges in Afghanistan, and said what U.S. officials have been saying for a while now, that NATO is failing to step up and place international troops in the south and east, where the real fighting against al Qaeda and the Taliban is being done primarily by U.S. Marines.
Mr. Burns said NATO's long term viability is at stake: "If NATO cannot succeed in Afghanistan, it may have a very negative impact on its ability to move forward."
Mr. Burns also said that the large amount of economic aid flowing in to the country is not being efficiently organized, and that the United Nations should appoint a "high-powered" individual to organize the aid flows.
Mr. Coll's opening was a bit less cohesive. He hit a few different points.
Things there he said, are "going the wrong direction, but not so precipitously" that they can't be reversed.
He also said that IED attacks are appearing in Afghanistan, and it appears they are being imported from Iraq.
Col. Lamm said that the U.S.-NATO coalition is indeed chaotic.
"If the Taliban could have drawn up the organizational diagram that would inhibit the allies, they would have arrived at this conclusion," he said.
Mr. Barton said that the Afghani people's two biggest concerns haven't been addressed: personal safety and investment outside the capital of Kabul.
Mr. Barton also raised an issue that provoked some interesting discussion: helicopters. One year ago, he said, he was told that the coalition needed 70 to 100 helicopters in Afghanistan but had only 35, and that NATO has 4,000 in Europe but only 11 in Afghanistan.
"There is obviously a capacity opportunity," Mr. Barton said.
Mr. Burns said he didn't know if the 4,000 number was accurate but that "there are certainly thousands of helicopters available."
But "very few have made their way" into Afghanistan, Mr. Burns said, calling that "a major failing" of NATO's.
Mr. Coll once took the conversation in a slightly different direction when he said that he was "not convinced that the United States has the capacity to succeed in Iraq as the current policy foresees, and succeed in Afghanistan as the current policy foresees."
"This current policy will not prove sustainable," he said.
Then Col. Lamm, somewhat surprisingly, said he agreed with Mr. Coll. He pointed out that nearly 50 percent of the German electorate want out of Afghanistan altogether, and 80 percent wants nothing to do with south Afghanistan.
Col. Lamm also dismissed the helicopter debate.
"That's probably not the way to go about your strategy, flying over your problems ... we did that in Vietnam," he said.
He said that getting mixed diplomatic and military teams, or provincial reconstruction teams, out "interfacing with people every day" is what "secures the center of gravity [which is] the Afghani people."
More to come if they say more of interest.
Ellie