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jerryd6818
02-09-08, 05:27 PM
I qualified three times during my enlistment. All three times I qualified as Expert (documented in my SRB - Weapons Firing Record section). My unit didn't issue a requalification bar on my second and third qualifications.

I've searched and read MCOs until my eyes are falling out. The only thing I can find is this:


01August2007
MCO 3574.2K

2. Re-qualification Bars

a. When a Marine who has qualified as an Expert the previous year requalifies as an Expert with the rifle on a re-qualification detail, that
individual earns a re-qualification bar to be attached to the Rifle Expert
Badge.

b. The first re-qualification bar earned is recognized as the second
award since the original Expert Badge was earned first. Subsequent Expert requalification Bars will be issued by the Marine’s Commanding Officer.

c. Marines are authorized the subsequent re-qualification bar each time
they fire expert for record. The Expert qualifications do not have to be
earned on back-to-back years (i.e., if a Marine fires Expert during Recruit
Training, Sharp Shooter the first year in the Operating Forces, and Expert
the third year in the Operating Forces, then the Marine rates an Expert badge
with a 2nd Award re-qualification bar for the current FY).

d. Only one re-qualification bar earned by the individual will be worn.

With all that said, my question is; do I qualify for the third award bar or just the second award bar. The reason I ask? Two of the qualifications were on the A range (the first being in boot camp of course) and one was on the B range.

I hope I've made this clear.

The Few. The Proud.
Jerry D.

Brewer0311
02-09-08, 05:58 PM
I know that the requal bars aren't issued. You have to to buy it from clothing (7day store, PX, annex doesn't sell them) As far as what you rate to wear I couldn't tell you. I know under your basic info on MOL it will tell you "Expert Qualifications: 2" or 3 or 1. I'm assuming that's what you rate. I however didn't shoot expert at boot and have only went to the range once in the fleet so I have only shot expert once. Hope that helps you out somewhat.

Big Jim
02-09-08, 07:14 PM
c. Marines are authorized the subsequent re-qualification bar each time
they fire expert for record. The Expert qualifications do not have to be
earned on back-to-back years (i.e., if a Marine fires Expert during Recruit
Training, Sharp Shooter the first year in the Operating Forces, and Expert
the third year in the Operating Forces, then the Marine rates an Expert badge
with a 2nd Award re-qualification bar for the current FY).



This is true...but if you shot below expert on the current year...you have to wear your CURRENT qualification badge. It can get confusing I know...but that doesn't seem to be the case right? Like Brewer said, you have to buy those things...and the Commanding Officer just has to make sure those things are made available to you for your current uniform accessories. But, if you're off active duty...just go to a surplus store...I see those things there all the time for a buck or two! Good luck!! ~Jim

thewookie
02-09-08, 11:29 PM
[quote=jerryd6818]
With all that said, my question is; do I qualify for the third award bar or just the second award bar. The reason I ask? Two of the qualifications were on the A range (the first being in boot camp of course) and one was on the B range.

quote]

Sounds like you rate to wear a third award. I'm not sure what a B range is, was it a KD course? A Known Distance course, the same as the other two or was it some type of combat qualification course? If you qualified on a KD course 3 times as expert, and it's your current classification then you rate to wear the 3rd award.

Sgt Leprechaun
02-10-08, 05:45 AM
Jerry:

To sum up....

Once you shoot expert the first time, any time you make expert again, you can add a bar to the shooting badge. So, if you shot expert in Recruit training, you rate the 'basic' badge. You get to the fleet, have a bad week, shoot marksman. The next year, you shoot expert again. Now, you get to wear your crossed rifles again with a '2nd award' badge. And so on.

Units no longer issue the re-qual badges, you have to buy them yourself.

Lastly, the MCO states you wear what you last shot. That goes for both rifle and pistol badges, for those who rate em.

Back in the days of musketloaders, your rifle qualifications were in your SRB and it was easy to check. Now, it should be on your training record and/or master brief sheet.

jerryd6818
02-10-08, 09:19 AM
Jerry:

To sum up....

Once you shoot expert the first time, any time you make expert again, you can add a bar to the shooting badge. So, if you shot expert in Recruit training, you rate the 'basic' badge. You get to the fleet, have a bad week, shoot marksman. The next year, you shoot expert again. Now, you get to wear your crossed rifles again with a '2nd award' badge. And so on.

Units no longer issue the re-qual badges, you have to buy them yourself.

Lastly, the MCO states you wear what you last shot. That goes for both rifle and pistol badges, for those who rate em.

Back in the days of musketloaders, your rifle qualifications were in your SRB and it was easy to check. Now, it should be on your training record and/or master brief sheet.

Doesn't look like anyone checked my profile. I am from back in the days of "musketloaders" (M-14 with 20 round magazine):D

I knew I wasn't making the question clear. What I'm trying to find out, is if the 'B' course qualifies to be used as criteria for wearing requalification bars.

While both courses are know distance, the 'A' Course is the one we fired in boot camp. Fifty rounds, twenty from the 200 yard line, twenty from the 300 yard line & ten from the 500 yard line. The 'B' Course is fifty rounds but they're all from the 200 yard line. (I think. Could have been 200 & 300 but I think it was all at 200 yards)

thewookie No wonder you came closest to figuring out my question. Dang, dude. Looks like you spent a lot of time putting rounds down range.

The Few. The Proud.
Jerry D.

Sgt Leprechaun
02-10-08, 09:40 AM
Now I see.

I would ask the questions then...

1: Did you qualify as expert on it?

and,

2: Did that qualification count as your annual rifle qual?

If the answer to both is "Yes", then I'd say you rate the award.

When I was at Marine Barracks Annapolis, we qualified on our own rifle range, also with our duty weapon, the M-14. I shot expert twice, and wore the 2nd award bar. Our course was NOT the regular A course.

Does that help?

thewookie
02-10-08, 09:53 AM
thewookie No wonder you came closest to figuring out my question. Dang, dude. Looks like you spent a lot of time putting rounds down range.

Yes, normally I feel pretty comfortable answering range questions, but you have me here!

With that additional info I'd say you rate a 2nd award. I think the B course you described is more of a BZO confirmation type of course. Back when I worked at the range at Dam Neck, on Friday after we finished qualing them we would then break them for chow, and then after chow we'd spend the afternoon running them through something like the B course you described. And I think you're correct it was from the 200 and 300 if I remember correctly. Been a few days,,,

Semper Fi

thewookie
02-10-08, 09:57 AM
When I was at Marine Barracks Annapolis, we qualified on our own rifle range, also with our duty weapon, the M-14. I shot expert twice, and wore the 2nd award bar. Our course was NOT the regular A course.

I've heard of this in extreme circumstances or in locations where a KD course isn't possible or available. We didn't have a "typical" KD course in Greece either but they ran annual quals there also. I guess it all boils down to whether or not the CO signs off on it, then if it's in your book then I guess it counts!

jerryd6818
02-10-08, 10:38 AM
Now I see.

I would ask the questions then...

1: Did you qualify as expert on it?

and,

2: Did that qualification count as your annual rifle qual?

If the answer to both is "Yes", then I'd say you rate the award.

When I was at Marine Barracks Annapolis, we qualified on our own rifle range, also with our duty weapon, the M-14. I shot expert twice, and wore the 2nd award bar. Our course was NOT the regular A course.

Does that help?

Answer to #1 is yes
Answer to #2 is I think so. 'B' Course was Dec '64 and 'A' Course was April '65
Both recorded in my SRB.

Not like I'm going to be wearing them anytime soon (let's hope) but I would like them displayed upon my death and want them to be accurate.

Thanks to all for your expertise and opinions.

The Few. The Proud.
Jerry D.

Quinbo
03-04-08, 03:11 PM
If I remember correctly the "B" course was designed for units that did not have a 500 yard range available. There are also units qualifying in indoor ranges and yes it does count as an annual requlification based on the signature of the training officer and Commanding officer.

ssgtedusmc
03-28-08, 01:16 AM
I qualified marksman in boot camp in December 1974, then marksman again once I got back to Pendleton from Japan in 1976. The I shot expert next year and the year after both on KD courses. I didn't shoot the next year being in school again and then after I got to El Toro I shot on a B course in late 1980 which was the last time I had the opportunity to requalify before I got out in 1983. I didn't shoot expert on the B course and when I asked the admin people which badge I was to wear I was told the expert badge with the 2nd award bar since the B course didn't change my qualification for record. The rifle range at Camp Pendleton where I requalified three times was the same range that I fired at when I was with the airwing at El Toro. The range was a mile from the 7th Regiment and was run by the airwing and was named El Toro range. It had firing lines at 200, 300 and 500 yards. So, it may have been up to the individual command to determine which course was the course used to determine the qualification badge and which course wasn't.

JRHD72
04-12-08, 12:45 AM
I was in 4 years 72-76 qualified for record 5 times shot rifle expert 4 times what should my bar read?

JRHD72
04-12-08, 12:47 AM
addendum

JRHD72
04-12-08, 12:48 AM
more for the above. boot camp m14 rifle expert 9 bulls

Quinbo
04-12-08, 01:11 AM
You would rate a 4th award bar.

Tovarish1
04-10-09, 04:00 PM
How many points do you need to score Expert? What's the process like?

MLMonk
04-10-09, 08:46 PM
You need a combined score of table 1 and 2 of 305+ to qualify as expert. Table 1 is a maximum of 250 points while table 2 is 100. Here's an example, say you shoot a 225 on table 1, and table 2 you shot a 80, 225+80=305, you now qualify as an expert. They recently changed the rifle qualifying I think in October of 2008, because I shot a 225 on table 1 in September, and in October they made table 2 count, so we did that, and I shot a 72 or so due to my weapon jammed with 5 rounds left in the magazine and the couches didn't see me do immediate action. Oh well, I'll requal this year as expert.

Tovarish1
04-10-09, 10:33 PM
Oh alrighty then. Because I wanna make it into Force Recon. Although I'm only 13, I'm extremely concerned as to whether I'll make it or not. I read you needed to get a certain score w/ the the M16 (even though you'll later be stuck w/ an M4). But still investigating some stuff. Taking practice ASVAB tests etc. Thanks. Too many changes in the Corps. Like no more tattoos lol.

MLMonk
04-11-09, 03:29 AM
You sure your 13? Lol, don't act like one. You have a long way ahead of you, good thing you will probably start early and by the time you get there, you will be more then ready. Don't focus on shooting, at all, pay attention to the marksmanship instructors while at bootcamp though. If you learn yourself, you will create hard to fix habits. Just start PTing right now, I'd advise using crossfit.com, since that is what the Marine Corps is soon going to change into. It's a PT system that works on your level. You have 5 years left to train yourself physically, even though a 300 PFT isn't all too hard to get, just takes commitment.

The Marines aren't getting tattoos banned, just making it harder to get one and where you want it, like no sleeve tattoos, Sgt Maj Kent is trying to make your career after the Corps more successful since jobs are hirings less and less people with displayable tattoos and such.

Tovarish1
04-11-09, 06:40 AM
I actually do PT right now. I wrote down my goal on a piece of paper. I wrote down 3 mile run in 20:20 which is 86 points, 20 pullups which is 100 points and 80 sit ups which is also 100 points adding up to a PFT of 286, one point over the minimum for enlisted officers lol. 80 sit ups is nothing. But my record for the 3 mile run was like 17 minutes and I don't know how many seconds. And 20 pullups dead hang isn't much either.

MLMonk
04-11-09, 06:00 PM
We're getting off topic now so I'll PM you.

tapiaje
04-09-13, 05:08 PM
MCO 3574.2K is most current , but 3574.2J is coming soon due to the Combat Pistol Program (CPP). In regards to your question and reference you listed it should stay the same. The easiest way is to go off what's in MCTFS or MOL. They do not make 1st award expert bars as the actual badge is the first award. If MOL says you shot expert 3 times, then you would be wearing an expert badge with a 3rd award bar attached. Your unit will not issue you the bar either. Don't worry about the course of fire, if you shot expert, you shot expert. Again go off what MCTFS/MOL says.