National Defense Service Medal

[Sgt Leprechaun]

Here is the criteria for the National Defense Service Medal. Called "The firewatch medal" by Vietnam era veterans, "The pizza stain" by Desert Storm era veterans.

One of the most common medals seen on Marines (and military members, period), since it merely requires graduation of recruit training and/or time on active duty.

All award criteria listed are from the Department of the Navy's Website, which has not been updated in some cases.

http://www.history.navy.mil/medals/index.html

But...because I'm a nice guy (LOL) I'll post them, as well as medal pics. Makes it easier on everyone.

Here is the criteria:

*******
The National Defense Service Medal will be awarded to all persons in the Naval service who served on active duty at any time between 27 June 1950 and 27 July 1954. All personnel serving on active duty during the above period are eligible for this award with the exception of reserve personnel on active duty for training, reserve personnel on short tours of active duty to serve on boards, courts, commissions, etc., and any persons ordered to active duty who, on physical examination incident thereto, are disqualified and immediately released from active duty. (Executive Order No. 10448 of 22 April 1953 and Department of Defense Directive 1348.7 of 15 July 1953.)


Designed by the Army's Institute of Heraldry in Cameron Station, Va., the first medals were issued during the Korean War era and note active federal service performed as part of normal extended duty between 27 June 1950 and 27 July 1954, both dates inclusive.

The next period of eligibility coincided with that of the Vietnam War, with duty between 01 Jan. 1961 and 14 Aug. 1974 being the criteria for the award, both dates inclusive. This amended period of eligibility was established by Executive Order 11265 of 11 January 1966.

The next period of award encompasses Southwest Asia service, with eligibility beginning 02 Aug. 1990, based on Executive Order 12776 from President George Bush on 18 October 1991. The terminal eligibility date for this period later was set as 30 Nov. 1995. The final period of award eligibility encompasses the War on Terror, with eligibility beginning 11 September 2001 and not yet ended. The NDSM was reinstated by memorandum from The Deputy Secretary of Defense, dated 26 April 2002, from 11 September 2001 to a termination date to be determined in the future.
****
Miscellenous facts:

Interestingly, because of the expanded role of military reservists in "Desert Shield" and "Desert Storm," President Bush's executive order extended the medal's award to those drilling members of the Selected Reserve.

Sailors and Marines with active duty in two or more of the periods wear a small bronze service star on the ribbon for each additional eligibility period.

Any member of the Naval Reserve who, after 31 December 1960, becomes eligible for the award of the Armed Forces Expeditionary Medal (http://www.history.navy.mil/medals/afem.htm) or the Vietnam Service Medal (http://www.history.navy.mil/medals/vsn.htm), is also eligible for award of the National Defense Service Medal.*****

Eligibility, General:

For the purpose of the award, the following persons will NOT be considered as performing active service:
(1) Guard and Reserve forces personnel on short tours of duty to fulfill training obligations under an inactive duty training program.
(2) Any person on active duty for the sole purpose of undergoing a physical examination.
(3) Any person on temporary active duty to serve on boards, courts, commissions and like organizations or on active duty for purposes other than extended active duty.

(4) A one time only exception, for members of the Army National Guard and United States Army Reserve, who were part of the selected reserve in good standing, was authorized, per executive orders 12778, dated 18 October 1991, for the period 2 August 1990 to 30 November 1995.

b. The National Defense Service Medal may be awarded to members of the Reserve Components who are ordered to Federal active duty, regardless of duration, except for the categories listed above.

c. To signify receipt of a second or subsequent award of the NDSM, a bronze service star will be worn on the service ribbon by those so qualified. Second or third award of the NDSM is authorized for those who served in one or more of the four qualifying time periods. It is not authorized for those who met the criteria in one time period, left active duty and returned during the same period of eligibility.
d. Cadets of the U.S. Military Academy are eligible for the NDSM, during any of the inclusive periods listed above, upon completion of the swearing-in ceremonies as a cadet.
e. The NDSM may be issued posthumously.

[Sgt Leprechaun]

http://www.homeofheroes.com/medals/images_wh/wh_24.jpg

[davblay]

So, from the way I read this, a reservist who only goes to boot camp and SOI/MCT and school, is not qualified for the NDSM unless/until their unit is deployed or put on active duty status? But should/would not get one out of Boot camp? That's the way is was in my day, during the Nam years! I am just trying to get this straight in my old head.

I am sure we have some actve reserve members on the site, will someone please clear this up for me?

Thanks, and Semper Fi,

Dave

[Sgt Leprechaun]

Dave;

Technically you are correct, the NDSM shouldn't be awarded to reservists only on AcDu for 'training'. But, I'll bet you that it's awarded to everyone who goes to recruit training upon graduation, as 'common practice'.

The GWOTSM rules seem to be followed pretty strictly from what I can tell.

[davblay]

The reason I brought that up is because during our final inspection, and graduation, the reservist stood out like a turd in a punchbowl, because they only had a shooting badge! I checked my Boot Camp Book to be sure.

Thanks for the clarification,

Dave

[Sgt Leprechaun]

Dave:

Nice to see confirmation that it was, in fact, done that way.

I think we need to hear from a current reservist to find out if it still is, or not. I've seen current Air Guardsmen, with no deployment or other active duty time, wearing the NDSM.

[davblay]

I PM'd Isrowie and asked him if they issue them on the island as well. Just waiting for his reply. I'll let you know what he says.

Dave

[davblay]

I sent you a PM Sgt Lep!

Dave

[Isrowei]

Reservest are awarded the NDSM at recruit training because they are considered on active duty until the completion of SOI/MCT and they check into their reserve unit properly. At that point, they beign their "reserve" time. All the time before that is active duty.

[Sgt Leprechaun]

Ah ha! Now that makes some sense. Obviously the rules have changed since the last time the NDSM was awarded.

Thanks for clearing that one up Lt.

[TressInBlack]

Why do they call it 'the pizza stain'?

(I'm guessing it's not a positive comment!)

[1stbn Old Man]

I just graduated from PISC and all new marines got awarded the NDSM

[Sgt Leprechaun]

To answer the question: "Why do they call it 'the pizza stain'?"

Because the ribbon of the medal when worn on the uniform has a distinctive coloring. When it's the only ribbon worn it looks kinda like that.

[Native Warrior]

What surprises me is that those of us that served in Lebanon and Grenada were awarded the Combat Action ribbon along with combat pay, but are not authorized the NDSM. Seems that since it was called a Peacekeeping mission that period of service is often overlooked. Any thoughts?

[Sgt Leprechaun]

Honestly, I'm not sure. The NDSM was originally done for the Korean callup (lots of WWII vets brought back and civilians drafted). It was brought back again for Vietnam, but pretty much languished until the Gulf war. Dropped again, it came back after 9/11. And, I'm thinkin that the 'powers that be' probably wouldn't have brought it back if they would have had foresight enough to realize that the GWOTSM/GWOTEM were going to come around.

While that doesn't really answer your question, perhaps in a roundabout way it does. Neither Lebanon nor Grenada were considered "National" emergencies. Most folks, even Marines, on active duty at the time, didn't see service in either of those places, yours truly among them. Since the NDSM is sort of a 'blanket' award, perhaps that is the reason why.

Oh, and those who did "Just Cause" in Panama in 1989 didn't get it, either. So don't feel too bad.

Thanks for your service, BTW.

[Native Warrior]

It's not that I need another item on my salad bar, it just irks me that the MC is handing out ribbons now almost as easy as the other branches, when for so long it was tough to get anything other than GCM. I remember getting back from Lebanon and Grenada with 9 ribbons and having E-7 and up *****ing about it and asking for proof that I was entitled to them. Now seems like anyone with a year or more of service is wearing a full service salad buffet.

Besides, as a Marine we don't need ribbons or medals to validate our worth and purpose to America, its people or to the world. We get that validation in our daily life both internal and externally.

[Sgt Leprechaun]

I do happen to agree with you. When I got out the first time in 1989, I had 4 ribbons (and one of them was from the Air Force!) after 2 WestPac's and multiple other deployments.

After doing just one teeney little "med" float that happened to involve an embassy evac and Kosovo, I think we got something like 5 medals and ribbons just for that. I had young Marines who went out on that float 'slick' chested who came back with: JMUC, NUC, Humanitarian Service, & SSDR, and then a year later comes the KCM and NATO medal and another NUC. That's seven total awards for one float! Those who got end of tour NAM's or GCM's at the normal time looked like freakin war heroes!

I understand exactly what you are saying though.

[SGT7477]

It's not that I need another item on my salad bar, it just irks me that the MC is handing out ribbons now almost as easy as the other branches, when for so long it was tough to get anything other than GCM. I remember getting back from Lebanon and Grenada with 9 ribbons and having E-7 and up *****ing about it and asking for proof that I was entitled to them. Now seems like anyone with a year or more of service is wearing a full service salad buffet.

Besides, as a Marine we don't need ribbons or medals to validate our worth and purpose to America, its people or to the world. We get that validation in our daily life both internal and externally.
You got that right ribbons don't make the warrior.:flag:

[Dan Berkery]

I just checked my "DD-214" for Decorations ......

It says ... "Good Conduct Medal, 1st. Award" ... "Armed Forces Expeditionary Medal" ... "National Defense Service Medal".

It didn't say anything about the "Vietnam Service Medal" although I was in Nam during 1965.

I did a search and found this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armed_Forces_Expeditionary_Medal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armed_Forces_Expeditionary_Medal)

[bucksgted]

Sgt. Lep, you can call it the fire watch ribbon, pogey bait ribbon or what ever, but please note the end date of 1954 and restart date of 1961. Those years in between are excluded for the NDSM unless one is eligible for the AFEM. I just discovered a few weeks back that in 1961, Pres. Kennedy signed the authorization for the AFEM for Taiwan Strait involvement covering 23 AUG 1958 to 01 JAN 1959. I am in the process of attempting to get my records fixed so that I can "officially wear" the NDSM and the AFEM. My travel arrangements to Taiwan in Aug '58 were courtesy of Pres. Ike. Our rules of engagement tied our hands, so if they ran, all we could do was chase the b-terds back across the border for our ROC brothers.

[egbutler1]

I think i got a fare amount for what i did in the corps and one CerCom for actions in Combat, thats bout it so i'm not stacked but thats pretty standerd for an 0311 these days.

1 CAR
1 GWOTSM
1 GC
1 OIF
2 SDSea
1 NDSR

[GeeTee]

Hey Marines!

I wanted to check out some stuff relative to this "Firewatch Medal" I was awarded for not getting thrown out for my first 180 days in the Corps. My current employer is well meaning but would not know the difference between a National Defense Medal and an American Defence Medal or even a China Service Medal! (You know how it goes with civilians so I don't need to tell you.)

Thank you, Sgt Leprechaun for starting and maintaining the topic!

If anyone needs anything, "Gray Up!" has a habit of working. At the moment, I am short on Pogey Bait but not too bad on ammo!

Gung Ho!!!

:thumbup:

[Moules]

It amazes me how easily the other services give out ribbons and medals, My best friend joined the Air Force and went to BMT at the same time I joined the Marine Corps and left for recruit training, He graduated boot camp with four ribbons on his chest. I remember getting pictures mailed to me of his graduation then looking at some of the Drill Instructors and some had four and then a few had three. It amazes me the readiness to hand out something that should be sacred and revered in the United States military service.

[Sgt Leprechaun]

It's been a common complaint from Marines since at least the 1980's.

Look at it this way, you'll EARN your ribbons and medals through every drop of sweat, strain, blood and tears. You may not have many of them, but you'll damn well know what they are for.

[regal1975]

I am trying to figure out why MOL has said for years that I rate 2 ndsm's... I joined in jan 2003.... Ive never worn a star with it, but it does say I rate it...Must be a typo...

[Sgt Leprechaun]

Quite likely, yeah. It happens. You can check with your admin section to try and get it fixed.

[0231Marine]

Yes, it was likely a typo.

Now a days, with the frequent deployments of some units, it's not uncommon to see some Marines like myself with quite a few ribbons and medals after doing numerous consecutive tours to hostile areas.

[joecoul89]

I just recently graduated boot camp from PI and on graduation day, after the ceremony, the people in the clothing store sold all the new Marines the NDSM to go with the ribbon. They said it was awarded to anyone who joined the military service in a time of war now. Since we are still in wars with Iraq and Afghanistan, everyone pretty much gets it now...

[itzs4m]

correct.

[SGT7477]

I just recently graduated boot camp from PI and on graduation day, after the ceremony, the people in the clothing store sold all the new Marines the NDSM to go with the ribbon. They said it was awarded to anyone who joined the military service in a time of war now. Since we are still in wars with Iraq and Afghanistan, everyone pretty much gets it now...

When we were awarded that ribbon we got the medal with it.:evilgrin:

[FistFu68]

:usmc: EARNING THE EAGLE,GLOBE AND ANCHOR SPEAKS 4ITSELF.PLUS MEDALS DON'T FEED THE BULLDOG :usmc: :iwo:

[aerocrazy7]

way to go man !

[seagoingbellhop]

Yeah, now they give out ribbons for sea service, overseas service, next they'll be giving them out for boot camp like the Air Force does. I served 4 yrs and 3 mos during and after the Korean war with two years overseas and all I came back with was a good conduct medal and a National Defense. We had two big flaps during that period but no actual combat with my unit. C'est la Vie!

[PaidinBlood]

I think i got a fare amount for what i did in the corps and one CerCom for actions in Combat, thats bout it so i'm not stacked but thats pretty standerd for an 0311 these days.

1 CAR
1 GWOTSM
1 GC
1 OIF
2 SDSea
1 NDSR


Cpl Butler is 100% right-this is a pretty standard package, barring Purple Hearts (God willing) and NAM/NavyComs. Why is everyone so mad? Is it like generations past? Guess not. At least I can tell you each and every award I rate and when I rated it. And at least we don't have the Army's gay ass rainbow ribbon


http://www.marksmedals.com/us_medals_files/ribbons/army_service_ribbon.JPG

[nvusmcsgt]

I only have the four myself. Good Conduct W/1 star, NDSM, Armed Forces Expeditionary Medal, and Sea Service Deployment Ribbon W/1 star. I was in the Air Wing and did two separate West Pacs'. I do remember on my second West Pac we rated a Marine Corps Expeditionary medal but they told us if we already have the Armed Forces Ex. we did not rate it. I thought that was a bit funny because it is two separate awards. Oh well I never really looked into it.

[oifvet23]

I did pretty good for my four yrs, I have 11

[oifvet23]

I did pretty good for my four yrs, I have 11


NAM, NUC, MUC, GCON, NATD, AFEM, IFM, GWOTE, GWOTS, AFSM, SSD :beer:

[Sgt Leprechaun]

You guys see what I have, but that's for service in 3 different branches since 1982. (Minus the gay rainbow ribbon and army NCO school, and Air Force 'longevity' ribbon, which they use instead of service stripes) I can well understand the Pre-Vietnam Marines looking at all of us since then with a ton of ribbons and just shaking their heads. Guys who had serious combat time in WWII in muliple island campaigns came home with, usually 3 ribbons; Asiatic Pacific Campaign, American Campain (for stateside service) and the WWII victory medal. Now, some also got the PUC and NUC, but that was usually about it.

The army didn't do much else, either, usually just the European Campaign, and the same last two.

Korean war vets normally came back with at least 3 ribbons, National Defense, Korean War Service, and UN Service.

Those who served 'between the wars' didn't get much in the way of ribbons and medals. Just the way it was.

[SoapO]

Would someone please correct me if I'm wrong. Marines in the IRR (Individual Ready Reserve) are eligible for the National Defense Service Medal ? For example, if you were discharged from active...

[GeeTee]

Howdy, Marine!

My knowlege is a bit rusty and goes back to Parris Island in 1969. I was told that Marines who served on active duty for 180 days or more were eligible. 180 days was a magic number for a lot of things. Back in that period, Marine reservists went through the necessary Recruit Training, ITR, MOS schooling, etc. This would take longer than 180 days so these reservists were eligible for the National Defense Medal.

I hope that helps.
Semper-Fi

[Camper51]

When I went through boot camp it was 90 days for eligibility for the firewatch ribbon. I got out after 8 years 3 months and 21 days wearing the firewatch ribbon and the Good Conduct medal (2nd award) My NUC was awarded to a unit I was in after I left it but I happened to be there during the period of eligibility and only found out about the award when I requested my service records a few years ago....

[GeeTee]

@Camper51

Well Marine, it appears there is life to this thread!

I cannot say Aye or Nay to your 90 day rule, but SoapO now has two good tidbits to chew on!

I did not call it a Firewatch Medal in this thread. That is what we called it, however, back in the '60s. I did not want to sound like I was belittling it!

My father was awarded the American Defense Medal for his service in the US Coast Guard (North Africa, Sicilly, Normandy) during WWII and then the National Defense medal for his service in the US Navy during the Korean War.

My uncle was awarded the American Defense Medal for his service in the US Army in WWII. (Guadalcanal, Phillipines).

We may call this the "Firewatch Medal". Certainly it means less than an award for valor. Yet this award means something!

During the 1960s, people could avoid this award.
1. They could come up "Sick, Lame, or Lazy"!
2. They could say they "wet the bed"!
3. They could say they "Liked" people of the same sex (Worked for Van Johnson in WWII).
4. They could go to another country for the duration.

For the rest of us, we showed up when we were supposed to! I don't know about you but I "Beat the Draft" by enlisting.

While the "National Defense Medal" may seem like a lowly award, most of our "Fellow Americans" do not qualify for it. Those of you who qualify for it are special!

Never forget that!

Gung-Ho!

[Sgt Leprechaun]

You need to fill out your profile.

[AgentQ70]

It's not that I need another item on my salad bar, it just irks me that the MC is handing out ribbons now almost as easy as the other branches, when for so long it was tough to get anything other than GCM. I remember getting back from Lebanon and Grenada with 9 ribbons and having E-7 and up *****ing about it and asking for proof that I was entitled to them. Now seems like anyone with a year or more of service is wearing a full service salad buffet.

Besides, as a Marine we don't need ribbons or medals to validate our worth and purpose to America, its people or to the world. We get that validation in our daily life both internal and externally.

I will agree with you, it does seem as if the MC is just giving them away, I still think the army tops the cake for giving out ribbons/medals. an e-3 with 2 years in had around 8 for a single deployment that just doesn't seem right to me.

[390 Mach I]

So, If I read this right, I would be eligible for this as well... <br />
Interesting.

[William Hardy]

I had my NDM status checked before I left the Army National Guard for retirement. I rated the first one because I served during the Vietnam War era. I rated the second one because my Gurad unit was activted, but we stood down before being sent to Desert Storm. I rated the third one because I was activated for 18 months to do a tour in Iraq. So my retirement DD214 has NDSM (3). After 41 years, I'll wear it with 2 stars.

[Sgt Leprechaun]

THAT is cool. Not too many of you folks around to be sure.

[echo3oscar1833]

I had my NDM status checked before I left the Army National Guard for retirement. I rated the first one because I served during the Vietnam War era. I rated the second one because my Gurad unit was activted, but we stood down before being sent to Desert Storm. I rated the third one because I was activated for 18 months to do a tour in Iraq. So my retirement DD214 has NDSM (3). After 41 years, I'll wear it with 2 stars.


I know this thread is a sticky and old, but I just wanted to tip my hat to you Gunny, Semper Fi Brother:beer:

[nightstalker2]

yes why question ribbons unless you're the ribbon police. I served from 1978 to 1993 and I was awarded ribbon I have'nt received to this day. So can someone tell me who can help or assist in getting me what I deserved. Beside a hard time I served with honor too.

[William Hardy]

Go to

Marine CorpsWhere to write for medalsNavy Personnel Command
Liaison Office Room 5409
9700 Page Avenue
St. Louis, MO 63132-5100Where medals are mailed fromNavy Personnel Command
Liaison Office Room 5409
9700 Page Avenue
St. Louis, MO 63132-5100Where to write in case of a problem
or an appealCommandant of the Marine Corps
Military Awards Branch (MMMA)
3280 Russell Road
Quantico VA 22134-5100

http://www.archives.gov/veterans/military-service-records/replacement-medals.html#marine

The information you need is there.

[telly141]

i was in us army in march 2007 and get out dec 2007. My dd214 have national defense service medal... and now i received other from usmc. Can you explain what means: "left active duty and returned during the same period of eligibility." and if can i meet all requeriments?












Here is the criteria for the National Defense Service Medal. Called "The firewatch medal" by Vietnam era veterans, "The pizza stain" by Desert Storm era veterans.

One of the most common medals seen on Marines (and military members, period), since it merely requires graduation of recruit training and/or time on active duty.

All award criteria listed are from the Department of the Navy's Website, which has not been updated in some cases.

http://www.history.navy.mil/medals/index.html

But...because I'm a nice guy (LOL) I'll post them, as well as medal pics. Makes it easier on everyone.

Here is the criteria:

*******
The National Defense Service Medal will be awarded to all persons in the Naval service who served on active duty at any time between 27 June 1950 and 27 July 1954. All personnel serving on active duty during the above period are eligible for this award with the exception of reserve personnel on active duty for training, reserve personnel on short tours of active duty to serve on boards, courts, commissions, etc., and any persons ordered to active duty who, on physical examination incident thereto, are disqualified and immediately released from active duty. (Executive Order No. 10448 of 22 April 1953 and Department of Defense Directive 1348.7 of 15 July 1953.)


Designed by the Army's Institute of Heraldry in Cameron Station, Va., the first medals were issued during the Korean War era and note active federal service performed as part of normal extended duty between 27 June 1950 and 27 July 1954, both dates inclusive.

The next period of eligibility coincided with that of the Vietnam War, with duty between 01 Jan. 1961 and 14 Aug. 1974 being the criteria for the award, both dates inclusive. This amended period of eligibility was established by Executive Order 11265 of 11 January 1966.

The next period of award encompasses Southwest Asia service, with eligibility beginning 02 Aug. 1990, based on Executive Order 12776 from President George Bush on 18 October 1991. The terminal eligibility date for this period later was set as 30 Nov. 1995. The final period of award eligibility encompasses the War on Terror, with eligibility beginning 11 September 2001 and not yet ended. The NDSM was reinstated by memorandum from The Deputy Secretary of Defense, dated 26 April 2002, from 11 September 2001 to a termination date to be determined in the future.
****
Miscellenous facts:

Interestingly, because of the expanded role of military reservists in "Desert Shield" and "Desert Storm," President Bush's executive order extended the medal's award to those drilling members of the Selected Reserve.

Sailors and Marines with active duty in two or more of the periods wear a small bronze service star on the ribbon for each additional eligibility period.

Any member of the Naval Reserve who, after 31 December 1960, becomes eligible for the award of the Armed Forces Expeditionary Medal (http://www.history.navy.mil/medals/afem.htm) or the Vietnam Service Medal (http://www.history.navy.mil/medals/vsn.htm), is also eligible for award of the National Defense Service Medal.*****

Eligibility, General:

For the purpose of the award, the following persons will NOT be considered as performing active service:
(1) Guard and Reserve forces personnel on short tours of duty to fulfill training obligations under an inactive duty training program.
(2) Any person on active duty for the sole purpose of undergoing a physical examination.
(3) Any person on temporary active duty to serve on boards, courts, commissions and like organizations or on active duty for purposes other than extended active duty.

(4) A one time only exception, for members of the Army National Guard and United States Army Reserve, who were part of the selected reserve in good standing, was authorized, per executive orders 12778, dated 18 October 1991, for the period 2 August 1990 to 30 November 1995.

b. The National Defense Service Medal may be awarded to members of the Reserve Components who are ordered to Federal active duty, regardless of duration, except for the categories listed above.

c. To signify receipt of a second or subsequent award of the NDSM, a bronze service star will be worn on the service ribbon by those so qualified. Second or third award of the NDSM is authorized for those who served in one or more of the four qualifying time periods. It is not authorized for those who met the criteria in one time period, left active duty and returned during the same period of eligibility.
d. Cadets of the U.S. Military Academy are eligible for the NDSM, during any of the inclusive periods listed above, upon completion of the swearing-in ceremonies as a cadet.
e. The NDSM may be issued posthumously.

[Sgt Leprechaun]

I have difficulty understanding your question (due in part to horrible grammar and disjointed sentences).

You say you served in the Army for enough time to get the NDSM. Now you are a Marine. You do not rate another NDSM for serving again, the eligibility period is a 'one time only' shot no matter how many branches you serve in.

Not trying to be difficult but your question is hard to understand.

[William Hardy]

The quick answer is simple
There are 3 recent times of eligibility for current members
1. Vietnam Era
2. Desert Storm
3. Current War on Terror (Iraq & Afghan.)

I am assuming that you only rate 1 NDM because you served in two branches during one time of national emergency...The current War on Terror.

For the "way older vets" they may over lap WWII, Korea, and Vietnam. Being an "older vet", I overlap Vietnam, Desert Storm, and Iraq. Some of the younger ones rate two awards since they overlap Desert Storm and the War on Terror. Some like yourself rate just the one because you have served during the War on Terror. The number of services you have been enlisted in has no bearing on the number of NDM you get, just times of national emergency.

[Sgt Leprechaun]

Thanks, Gunny. (I rate a star on my NDSM for that reason).

[Wyoming]

I have difficulty understanding your question (due in part to horrible grammar and disjointed sentences).

You say you served in the Army for enough time to get the NDSM. Now you are a Marine. You do not rate another NDSM for serving again, the eligibility period is a 'one time only' shot no matter how many branches you serve in.

Not trying to be difficult but your question is hard to understand.

... and he is in Administration. Go figure.

[Sgt Leprechaun]

Is it just ME? Am I being a 'grammar Nazi'??

[Wyoming]

Is it just ME? Am I being a 'grammar Nazi'??Nope, but allowing this **** to continue, or allowing posters to post, AND get answers, or whatever, without a proper profile, will only encourage them.:evilgrin:

[Sgt Leprechaun]

True. I try not to be an azzhole out of the chute, cause I hate that crap for the most part when I'm new on a site...but still....dammmmit, rules are rules....

[doc h fmf]

Not That It Matter , But Iwas Active Duty During Desert Sheild/storm. I Know This Is Stupid Question But Would You Wear A Star With The Ribbon Probly Not.

[William Hardy]

Doc - you get a NDSM for serving during Desert Shield/Storm. No star unless you were also in during the War on Terror. The dates are listed in the earlier post on this page.

[iamcloudlander]

In 1965 when I graduated from boot camp no one in my series or company at ITR had any ribbons except prior service. I did not see anyone wear any ribbons except the higher ranks or the men returning from vietnam. I stood many inspections and no one wore just the NDSM. We weren't issued them in boot camp (we weren't issued the vietnam medals either had to buy them in Okinawa) They weren't even on my first DD214 but were all on my second 214.

[echo3oscar1833]

I remember when I graduated boot camp the only award I had was my Rifle Badge, and we all felt like kings when we got our Rifle Badges. 9/11 had just happened less than a month when I graduated. The...

[echo3oscar1833]

I also remember when a Marine had a National Defense Service Medal, and Sea Service Deployment Ribbon, and Rifle Expert Badge 2nd Award he was the shizzle. If you had jump wings with that to you where a freaking stud. :D

[Supersquishy]

If a Marine were AD until Sept 12th do they rate the NDSM? this may sound silly but Im sure a few Marines got the NDSM this way if this is true.

[awbrown1462]

Ah ha! Now that makes some sense. Obviously the rules have changed since the last time the NDSM was awarded.

Thanks for clearing that one up Capt.
Fixed LOL

[3522]

Gunny Hardy, I don't see the NDSM on the stack in your sig. Am I just blind?

[FistFu68]

:usmc: It's not the Medal it's what it Stands For S/F :usmc: :iwo:

[DocGreek]

:D....This ribbon/medal was a BIG joke back in the 60's....walked out of boot with that ONE, silly ribbon!!! If you REALLY want one.....I'll send you MINE!!!!......HA!HA!HA!HA!

[William Hardy]

Thank you 3522 - I went to the the signature site and the NDSM was checked, but it was not highlighted. I clicked and it is now showing. I wish they had all the state awards as well.

[echo3oscar1833]

If a Marine were AD until Sept 12th do they rate the NDSM? this may sound silly but Im sure a few Marines got the NDSM this way if this is true.


I bet they did, including those in the reserves as well. Since this time around it was extended to the reserves as well. Semper :D

[Sgt Leprechaun]

Yes, to answer Squishy's question. And that works with any other unit awards as well. For example, if the time period for a unit award (or even the NDSM) begins on 11 Sept 2001, and ends, say, on 9 December 2010, and you enter active duty on 9 December 2010, you rate said award. OR, if your EAS was 11 September 2001, even if on terminal leave from Active duty (you are still considered 'active'), you rate the award.

As long as you were serving during that time period, or any day thereof, you rate the award.

[Supersquishy]

Yes, to answer Squishy's question. And that works with any other unit awards as well. For example, if the time period for a unit award (or even the NDSM) begins on 11 Sept 2001, and ends, say, on 9 December 2010, and you enter active duty on 9 December 2010, you rate said award. OR, if your EAS was 11 September 2001, even if on terminal leave from Active duty (you are still considered 'active'), you rate the award.

As long as you were serving during that time period, or any day thereof, you rate the award.

Thanks for that informative answer! I do know a person who was on terminal leave during 9/11, and had 56 days of leave that was approved. :D

[Sgt Leprechaun]

I'm one of 'em. I went 'terminal' on 23 September with about that many as well. And the NDSM (2nd award) is on my DD-214, as is the GWOTSM. I figure the latter is the only award I'll get for being at the Pentagon on 9/11, so it actually means something more to me than most I guess.

[bobpettit]

What is the meaning of "two or more periods" ? I was on active duty for 6 yrs. Do I get to wear the medal with 3 small bronze stars or 2 or just 1 ? I served Aug 1961 to July 1967. Served in Cuba blockade and a year in Vietnam.

Quote from Reg; "Sailors and Marines with active duty in two or more of the periods wear a small bronze service star on the ribbon for each additional eligibility period. "

Thank you for your service and attention to this post, Bob Pettit

[DanM]

What is the meaning of "two or more periods" ? I was on active duty for 6 yrs. Do I get to wear the medal with 3 small bronze stars or 2 or just 1 ? I served Aug 1961 to July 1967. Served in Cuba blockade and a year in Vietnam.

Quote from Reg; "Sailors and Marines with active duty in two or more of the periods wear a small bronze service star on the ribbon for each additional eligibility period. "

Thank you for your service and attention to this post, Bob Pettit

It appears you were active duty for one period,therefore only one medal.

"The next period of eligibility coincided with that of the Vietnam War, with duty between 01 Jan. 1961 and 14 Aug. 1974 being the criteria for the award, both dates inclusive. This amended period of eligibility was established by Executive Order 11265 of 11 January 1966. "

[AAV Crewchief]

So, from the way I read this, a reservist who only goes to boot camp and SOI/MCT and school, is not qualified for the NDSM unless/until their unit is deployed or put on active duty status? But should/would not get one out of Boot camp? That's the way is was in my day, during the Nam years! I am just trying to get this straight in my old head.

I am sure we have some actve reserve members on the site, will someone please clear this up for me?

Thanks, and Semper Fi,

Dave

I've got kids in my unit who have never deployed with 5 ribbons. WTF??? One is the National Defense ribbon.

[William Hardy]

What is the meaning of "two or more periods" ? I was on active duty for 6 yrs. Do I get to wear the medal with 3 small bronze stars or 2 or just 1 ? I served Aug 1961 to July 1967. Served in Cuba blockade and a year in Vietnam.

Quote from Reg; "Sailors and Marines with active duty in two or more of the periods wear a small bronze service star on the ribbon for each additional eligibility period. "

Thank you for your service and attention to this post, Bob Pettit

I read the reg on this one -
If you served during the Vietnam Era or earlier
If you served during the 1st Gulf War
If you served during the current conflicts

Between these periods the NDSM was not being awarded - Depending upon when you served you might qualifiy for 1 to 3 issuances of the medal. Because my service time on active duty and reserve time stretched across all three, I have two stars on mine. It only means you served during a time of crisis...no big deal.

[Sgt Leprechaun]

1 medal, 1 award sir. Your period encompasses only 1 'award period'.

[Laurens]

Some here say (with all due respect) that medals don't mean anything..
Well, i'm not a Marine (not even close!)

But, in my opinion, medals are to remind the Marine of what he has accomplished, and what he has done for his country. A wound is a Purple Heart, if it was a minor wound, a stranger wouldn't be able to tell that he had bled for his country, but that medal would proof he did. You can't look at a person and tell if he's a 'hero' and shows great courage on the battlefield.. But you can tell if he has been awarded the Medal Of Honor, Navy Cross, Silver Star or Bronze Star (for example)..

I personally believe medals mean alot to all the service members, because that way, they can prove what they have done for their country.. without ever needing to say a word. Is a man with less ribbons then another less of a Soldier/Marine/Sailor? No, it only tells that he didn't get the chance to EARN that ribbon/award.

But then again, i'm no Marine, so what do I know :)

[viper1833]

Some here say (with all due respect) that medals don't mean anything..
Well, i'm not a Marine (not even close!)

But, in my opinion, medals are to remind the Marine of what he has accomplished, and what he has done for his country. A wound is a Purple Heart, if it was a minor wound, a stranger wouldn't be able to tell that he had bled for his country, but that medal would proof he did. You can't look at a person and tell if he's a 'hero' and shows great courage on the battlefield.. But you can tell if he has been awarded the Medal Of Honor, Navy Cross, Silver Star or Bronze Star (for example)..

I personally believe medals mean alot to all the service members, because that way, they can prove what they have done for their country.. without ever needing to say a word. Is a man with less ribbons then another less of a Soldier/Marine/Sailor? No, it only tells that he didn't get the chance to EARN that ribbon/award.

But then again, i'm no Marine, so what do I know :)


Ur point exactly :D:beer:

[Laurens]

Ur point exactly :D:beer:


Damn, Marines are mean.. :evilgrin:

[Wyoming]

Damn, Marines are mean.. :evilgrin:

You ain't seen or heard **** yet.

... and, your 'Favorite Quote', is a bit sick and lame, *******.



Favorite Quote - "Discussing Over The Internet Is Like The Special Olympics, No Matter Who Wins, You're Still Retarded.

[Laurens]

You ain't seen or heard **** yet.

... and, your 'Favorite Quote', is a bit sick and lame, *******.



Favorite Quote - "Discussing Over The Internet Is Like The Special Olympics, No Matter Who Wins, You're Still Retarded.

I'll just shut up, since someone here can always find something wrong with anything I say.. Sure, i'm a kid, i'm a nasty civilian, but atleast try and educate me instead of always downtalking..

[DrZ]

Unless I had to.... I didn't wear the ribbons. Gave the inspecting officers less to stare at and less to find wrong. You would get some young O1 or O2 who was given the duty to do the morning inspection. They boys had rulers and spent way too much time checking and measuring and such. Some of them had a firewatch ribbon and some didn't.
Didn't need flak from some kid.

[pocatellodave]

I have the Good Conduct Medal and the Armed Forces Expeditionary Medal.I fell in the proper time frame for the National Defense Medal,but never was awarded the medal.A case could be made for receiving the Viet Nam Service Medal and the Viet Nam Campaign medal I guess,as my ship was involved in combat,and we lost two aircraft to AAA during attacks.Several planes came back shoot up real bad,but we weren't supposed to be doing that sort of thing according to the news back then.Navel reservist rate the medals from 1960 till 1973.Advisers rated the medals from 1962,but we didn't even though we were in actual combat.It was another cover up and lie by the government.I just wonder why they omitted the N.D.M.No big deal,as the whole who deserves what medal has always been a little suspect.Officers get medals for pushing units around on a map,and winning battles.The grunts get medals for doing the close in stuff,getting wounded,and dying!Just my 2 cents worth.
Dave

[tracyk859]

Thanks for the post. Hi guys, Im a newbie. Nice to join this forum.

[pocatellodave]

Welcome aboard!
Semper Fi
Dave

[tracs1833]

I read with interest the posts regarding the National Defence Medal. I went through the Island in Jan 1969 and we all called it the &quot;Firewatch Ribbon. I wore one with my shooting badge when I...

[Quinbo]

The DD-214 is documentation of release from active duty. I would have to look but I think mine also has a good conduct start date on it. There is a block on there that lists your awards and if it contains the medals you mentioned then it was either a clerical error or you rate them. Reservists do have a seperate and distinct good conduct medal. If you did 3 years on active duty and stayed out of trouble then I believe you would rate the good conduct medal. Otherwise you do not.

[tracs1833]

The DD-214 is documentation of release from active duty. I would have to look but I think mine also has a good conduct start date on it. There is a block on there that lists your awards and if it contains the medals you mentioned then it was either a clerical error or you rate them. Reservists do have a seperate and distinct good conduct medal. If you did 3 years on active duty and stayed out of trouble then I believe you would rate the good conduct medal. Otherwise you do not.
Thanks for the info. On another site, I had listed the Good Conduct, National Defence and Organized Marine Corps Reserve as my awards. I think I'll go back over and take off the Good Conduct and National Defence. I don't want to claim, even through error, anything I am not entitled to. H**l, just the title of marine is far good enough for me. Thanks again, and Semper Fi.

[Quinbo]

Semper Fi Marine :thumbup::thumbup:

[William Hardy]

You rate the National Defense medal. You may rate the good conduct. There was a change to policy somewhere along the line, not sure when...at any rate, I did 11 1/2 years active and was awarded the GC 3 times (6 months short for the 4th). Later I joined the Army National Guard. I never received a good conduct when I retired the first time. After I went back in to do a tour in Iraq, admin went through my records and ended up with several awards that were overlooked the first time around..mostly reservist medals and ribbons, but it did include the Army Good Conduct for years I spent in the Guard. When I finally retired at age 59, my records had been updated. I requested my records from St. Louis and got a large package with all my service records, both Marine and Army. A little later they sent me a package with all my medals and ribbons. You should do that...request your records. Whatever you get is what you rate.

Semper Fi

[AdminAssassin]

As a reservist it's pretty tough to get awards actually. Alot of people just have the NDSM for joining during the war on terrorism. We have to be activated 30+ days to get the GWOT service award, but that can be stateside though if your deployed the time req. is waived. All other awards for us it pretty much takes a deployment to get anything. All in all, it's hard for reservists who don't get deployed to get some "chest candy".

[tracs1833]

Marines,
I appreciate all the feedback. Just to be safe, I have already gone to the other site and removed the reference to the National Defence and Good Conduct medals. I think it best to leave them off, until I see something from the government positively documenting my eligibility for them. Like I said, I don't want to show something I did not earn. Too many intentional posers out there. We don't need unintentional ones also.

[Brianhipwell]

:D....This ribbon/medal was a BIG joke back in the 60's....walked out of boot with that ONE, silly ribbon!!! If you REALLY want one.....I'll send you MINE!!!!......HA!HA!HA!HA!

Be cool...be cool Doc:cool:HIP

[pocatellodave]

Like I said I should have got one,but I really don't care,They told me the reords building burnt down,and they lost a lot of records.I got a Good Conduct medal and an Armed Forces Expeditionary medal.Should have gotten A couple of Vietnam Medals,but didn't so no big deal.I'm just proud to be a Marine!
Semper Fi!

[bpatk]

I might be all wet but I thought one unit was authorized after the fact to wear it from the Grenada/Lebanon fiasco. I belive it was an artillery unit from LeJuene. Native Warrior the NDSM is almost like the awarding of the Legion of Merit upon a retirement of a BGen or above or a E-8/9 if the Marine hasn't stepped on toes. In regards to proving that you rated a bunch of fruit salad in the 80's I seen that first hand. Durnig change of command about 3-4 had FAR more fruit salad than the SgtMaj, soooo he had them remove some and only wear individual awards and bravery awards. This applied to E's and O's even if it was Vietnam awards! Come to find out the SgtMaj was just shy of 30 and HAD NOT ever been overseas!! He had if I recall just a Naval Acheivement, NDSM & GCM. The new CO was a Pentagon/HQMC type he had just GCM,Sea Service,NUC & Legion of Merit(was a retread and a padingus) Several senior NCO's requested mast but to no avail. If they weren't close to retirement I think they would've requested mast straight up to the Commanding General 2nd MarDiv

[William Hardy]

If I remember correctly, the awarding of the National Defense Medal is by date. I don't recall any special exceptions. The last 3 times were for the Vietnam Era, Desert Storm, and the current War on Terror. There are guys at different locations that have earned combat awards for special assignment, but did not get the NDSM. Grenada was going in to help them, not a "national defense" problem.

I have received it 3 times and all it means is that I happen to be serving during part of all of the last 3 issues of the medal. I did serve in Vietnam and in Iraq, so I guess those two awards of the NDSM have a little meaning. I was in the reserves during Desert Storm. We were called up, but never went. I still got it. It basically shows that I was in for a long time and has nothing to do with heroics or serving in harms way.

[Sgt Leprechaun]

Correct. NDSM is by date alone. It cannot be awarded for operations, etc. Originally it was designed for Korea.

I got it twice :)

[FistFu68]

:usmc: It was My 1st.outta any of My Chest Salad,and is very Special too Me,I stood Tall when I first rated it outta Boot(P.I)and till this Day it Is something(NDSM) I Am very Proud off.S/F :beer::iwo:

[pocatellodave]

Correct. NDSM is by date alone. It cannot be awarded for operations, etc. Originally it was designed for Korea.

I got it twice :)
Some of the post on this blog mention the fact that some Marines had to quit wearing awards after they left a certain unit.If I got it right,the whole 3rd Marine Divsion had the the right to wear the P.U.C. for service in Viet Nam,65-67.I know they deserved awards,as they were the first large contingent of military units to go to Vietnam,and they were involved in a lot of actions,Star Light,Jay,Prairie.If my fading memory serves me right General Lew Walt was the Commandant at that time.David M. Shoup was Commandant while I was in the U.S.M.C.I had a friend that fought at Gudalcanal and Tarawa.He was a true hero,and said like all good Marines do,I was only doing my job,and the real heroes were my brothers that gave their all!May the Marine Corps live forever.
Semper Fi

[pocatellodave]

Some of the post on this blog mention the fact that some Marines had to quit wearing awards after they left a certain unit.If I got it right,the whole 3rd Marine Divsion had the the right to wear the P.U.C. for service in Viet Nam,65-67.I know they deserved awards,as they were the first large contingent of military units to go to Vietnam,and they were involved in a lot of actions,Star Light,Jay,Prairie.If my fading memory serves me right General Lew Walt was the Commandant at that time.David M. Shoup was Commandant while I was in the U.S.M.C.I had a friend that fought at Gudalcanal and Tarawa.He was a true hero,and said like all good Marines do,I was only doing my job,and the real heroes were my brothers that gave their all!May the Marine Corps live forever.
Semper Fi
P.S. I was in the Marine Corps from 1962-1966.Someone tell me I rated the National Defense Medal or if I don't.My grand kids think the only two awards I have the Good conduct Medal and the Armed Forces Expeditionary Medal are neat,and I was their hero.I wasn't, and we only came under fire a couple of times during the Domincan Republic crisis,and one of them was from friendly fire,as a Domincan Republic P-51 strafed us by mistake!My unit was one of last units to qualify with the M-1 Garand rifle.We shot at the Marine barracks Bremerton range.I had a real good day, shooting expert with both the M-1 and .45 pistol.My skipper Captain J.J. Burke was a stern but fair man.He overlooked a couple of minor incidents,so I received my Good Conduct Medal,and was promoted to L/cpl,before I was transferred to the 1st Battlion 8th Marines,H&S company.

[pocatellodave]

Thanks a lot.Yes it was a hurry up operation,and My Battalion was trucked to Cherry Point,and then flown to the Dominican Republic via C-130's.The first Marines involved received the Navy Unit Medal.We relieved them,as they had been on station for the heavier fighting.

[Sgt Leprechaun]

Pocatello, you rate both the NDSM, and, IIRC, EITHER the Expeditionary medal OR the Marine Corps Expeditionary. Those two, at one time, were an 'either/or' type of deal. Now, because this was a 'joint' op, you may only rate the AFEM.

Have to double check the regs on it but you for SURE rate the NDSM.

[pocatellodave]

thanks,I was awarded the Armed Forces Expeditionary Medal,and the Good Conduct Medal,and I now know I rate the NDFM.The 6th Marines,I'm not sure which unit,but I think it was 3/6,received the Navy Unit Commendation,as they were the 1st into the Dominican Republic along with units from the 82 Airborne,Some Navy vessels also received the Navy Unit Commendation Medal.I'm proud to have served this great country!
Semper Fi

[iamcloudlander]

As I have read all the posts here I am reminded that on Sept 21,1965, graduation day from MCRD San Diego (we graduated in Trops) no one was awarded the NDSM in our entire company. I did not see any of these medals on Marines chest. When leaving Viet Nam in Aug 68,I still did not any medals. I purchased the ones I wore home from the Air Force PX in Oki. I had to go to Personnel when I reported to my permanent duty station and they researched what I rated and put them in my record book. I recently received from St Louis a package containing most of the ones I had earned including one new one--it was the RVN CAC, none of the foreign medals were included. So I had to buy them from Medals of America.

[pocatellodave]

As I have read all the posts here I am reminded that on Sept 21,1965, graduation day from MCRD San Diego (we graduated in Trops) no one was awarded the NDSM in our entire company. I did not see any of these medals on Marines chest. When leaving Viet Nam in Aug 68,I still did not any medals. I purchased the ones I wore home from the Air Force PX in Oki. I had to go to Personnel when I reported to my permanent duty station and they researched what I rated and put them in my record book. I recently received from St Louis a package containing most of the ones I had earned including one new one--it was the RVN CAC, none of the foreign medals were included. So I had to buy them from Medals of America.
Which unit were you with to be awarded both the PUC and the Navy Unit Commendation sir.
Semper Fi

[cubawatcher]

Which unit were you with to be awarded both the PUC and the Navy Unit Commendation sir.
Semper Fi
I saw your post asking what unit rated the PUC and the NUC.Iwas with VMFA-531.We were in Danang from April -July 1965.We were near the end of our far east tour when we went TDY to Danang fron Atsugi Japan.We were awarded both the PUC and the NUC for that time.Never understood why but there it is.I never received any awards I was eligible for since I was released COG on 15 July 65 since my enlistment was up on 7 Sept.Kind of wish I had received them just to wow my grandkids. lol I work in a high school now and the Marine recruiters are in the school often.Seems everyone sports a chestful of ribbons,but what with two wars going on they probably have earned them the hard way. Semper Fi

[pocatellodave]

Medals can be a hard to understand,as in it takes some guys many years to get a medal they should have received spot on.My unit should have received medals for Vietnam,but because the U.S wasn't admitting are involvement,we got nothing.The Gulf of Tonkin incident was provoked by the U.S.,and planes from my carrier done the retalitory strike on the North Vietnamese PT base.Many planes came back shot full of holes.
Many of you have heard of the Lt.Klusmann story.The Kitty Hawks F8A's were flying recon missions over Laos.I seen Klusmann's F8A after one of his missions.He got back with half a tail and many other holes in his plane.A couple of days later the triple A knocked him out of the sky.There were two Air America choppers near Klusmanns location,but McNamara didn't want to let them help,as it would put egg on the U.S.A.'s face.Finally one of the Navy big shots got the President on the phone and told him the situation.Johnson said go get him out.It was too late,as the clever Pathet Laos knew where Klusmann was and let him keep calling for help,drawing in the helicopters so they could pour it to them.The skipper of the Kitty Hawk had already sent one of the Kitty Hawks Helicopters to try and rescue Klusmann w/o permission from anyone!They didn't have door gunners on them choppers,so several Marines were on board the rescue bird,all with B.A.R.s and Thompson sub machine guns.It was too little,too late.The ground fire was intense,and the rescue mission was called off.
The best part is that Lt.Klusmann escaped with several other prisoners.What a shame to leave a Navy pilot like he meant nothing to are government!
My battalion 1/8 was doing the same thing in the Dominican that 3/6 was,and they got the NUC,and we got the Armed Forces Expeditionary Medal.No big deal,but are C.O. was pizzed!

[cubawatcher]

I hadn't heard the Klussman story,thanks for sharing.When we were supposed to leave Atsugi for Da Nang we assembled at the airstrip with C130s waiting like 3 days in a row only to be told to go back to the barracks and standby.We actually had boarded once only to off load and be sent back to standby.Finally we boarded,engines fired up but figured they would shut down again,but we took off.Actually they wouldn't tell us where we were going-big secret.We landed in Okinawa where we spent the nite.Another false alarm.Next morning we reboarded and took off-still not being advised of our destination.When we descended it was pitch black,no navigation lights and dropped right out of the sky.When they shut down the engines and opened the ramp it was hot and steamy,lots of activity and we were met by 6buys with armed Marines in them.Not in Kansas anymore Dorthy.We later learned the Japanese government was pitching a ***** about us deploying direct to Viet Nam from their soil.Okinawa had not been returned to them at this time so we actually embared from a US protectorate.I guess this set the stage for a decade of politics and bull**** in the proscution of a war that left many Americans dead on the beaches because of *******s like Mcnamara.You know the rest of the story. Semper Fi Tom

[KaoticMarine11]

someone is motto lol. honestly i think it looks good on the uniform to have atleast one ribbon or medal on the uniform wen you come out of boot but i think you should only be awarded national defense if sent to war because the key word is defense. how are you defending anything out of boot. look at it this way atleast we arent like the army navy and airforce that graduate basic with 2-3 medals and ribbons lol. my best friend just got home from the navy and has 2 ribbons right out of basic lmao. rediculous how they throw out ribbons and medals. gotta love the boots wen they think they have done something just cuz of that ndsm lol. i have been in the corps a year now and i see boots on boot leave all the time walking around in their blues with the ndsm walking around like they made a difference in the world. myself i have not deployed. i kno i have not made a difference. but i will get my chance next year. i agree with you sgt on not giving the ndsm to everyone who passes basic

[pocatellodave]

I prefer not to worry about how many ribbons a Marine has been awarded.More power to them and they deserve the honor.
I received 3 medals for my time in the Marine Corps.Armed Forces Expeditionary,Good Conduct,and the National Defense Medal.3/6 got the Navy Unit Commendation Medal for doing the same job we did,go figure.Good for them.They were in to the Dominican Republic a couple of days before us,so I guess that was the reasoning behind why they got the NUC.
Semper Fi

[FistFu68]

:evilgrin: Medals and Ribbon's do not Feed tha BULLDOG...Hell when that Rocket blew our REMFERS up in Dong Ha or Quang Tri believe Me alot of our Chit was never put on our DD214's but St.Louis will put All Unit and Personal Awards on Your DD215!!! Semper Fidelis :beer: :iwo:

[William Hardy]

someone is motto lol. honestly i think it looks good on the uniform to have atleast one ribbon or medal on the uniform wen you come out of boot but i think you should only be awarded national defense if sent to war because the key word is defense. how are you defending anything out of boot. look at it this way atleast we arent like the army navy and airforce that graduate basic with 2-3 medals and ribbons lol. my best friend just got home from the navy and has 2 ribbons right out of basic lmao. rediculous how they throw out ribbons and medals. gotta love the boots wen they think they have done something just cuz of that ndsm lol. i have been in the corps a year now and i see boots on boot leave all the time walking around in their blues with the ndsm walking around like they made a difference in the world. myself i have not deployed. i kno i have not made a difference. but i will get my chance next year. i agree with you sgt on not giving the ndsm to everyone who passes basic

Hey numbnuts - the NDSM means you served during a period of "national defense" not that you did anything heroic or if you served in a hostile area. If you have not contributed to the national defense by being a member, you must be hell of a slacker. Whether stateside or overseas, everyone who is involved is doing their part. You may be preparing, but for every (wo)man on the ground, there are many other behind the scenes making it possible for the Marine/Soldier/Airman/Sailor to do their job. You better and everyone else better get their head out of their butt and pay attention to what is going on around you. Where do you think you get everything you have and what you eat? When in a combat zone, it all starts stateside with thousands of people doing their part to obtain, sort, and pack what you need. They may not be in a combat zone, but they are contributing to the success of the guy on the ground. They may not even be military, but they are contributing. Hell, I think those people who are working in different areas providing support should get some kind of civilian medal for their efforts. People see the grunt, but rarely do they see the others...the guy in finance, the cook, the supply clerk, the people in transportation, engineers, communicators, the people at AAFES, the USO, and the people in the Chaplains office. (Sorry I couldn't list everyone, but there just isn't enough room)...the point is, there are hundreds supporting a single person on the ground in the combat zone. You numbnuts out there better learn some respect and expand you pea-brains. You contributed when you decided to become a part of what is going on...and that goes for our fellow warriors in the Army, Navy, Air Force, and yes, the Coast Guard. I respect all of them, including you numbnuts, and along with every civilian who is working to support the military and the United States of America. You said you had not gone over yet...then it is your duty to train hard and be prepared for the day you do go over...I truly hope you do not...but be ready when the call comes. Just because a person doesn't have to dodge bullets on a daily basis does not mean they didn't do anything. I'd like to see how much you could actually do if all those people didn't do their jobs in supporting you. Grow up numbnuts and have respect for everyone who is in the show. Think about who got the tents you sleep in, the food you ate, the clothes you wear. Think outside of your little world and you might be able to appreciate life a little better. Say thank you every chance you get to those who are supporting you and don't worry about the other services. They have their own way of doing things.

I learned very early on in Vietnam to appreciate what I had. I always said nice things to all the cooks and servers as I went though the line to get chow. I smiled and said thank you to the people at the PX. You would be surprised at how much better service I got than my fellow Marines who were not so nice. I did the same when I went to Baghdad in 2006. Respect and good manners worked in 1969 and it still worked in 2006.

Thank you for your service Marine. You rate the NDSM.

[pocatellodave]

If you are awarded a medal are any other award,like shooting medals,then you have earned them.The Marine Corps doesn't give anything away,and we wouldn't have it any other way!
Semper Fi

[cubawatcher]

someone is motto lol. honestly i think it looks good on the uniform to have atleast one ribbon or medal on the uniform wen you come out of boot but i think you should only be awarded national defense if sent to war because the key word is defense. how are you defending anything out of boot. look at it this way atleast we arent like the army navy and airforce that graduate basic with 2-3 medals and ribbons lol. my best friend just got home from the navy and has 2 ribbons right out of basic lmao. rediculous how they throw out ribbons and medals. gotta love the boots wen they think they have done something just cuz of that ndsm lol. i have been in the corps a year now and i see boots on boot leave all the time walking around in their blues with the ndsm walking around like they made a difference in the world. myself i have not deployed. i kno i have not made a difference. but i will get my chance next year. i agree with you sgt on not giving the ndsm to everyone who passes basic

It's my understanding that if you are not wearing the awards(medals ) you have been awarded you are out of uniform.Far wiser heads than a PFC have made the decision that you should be wearing this medal-or ribbon.Be proud of your service,your butt might be put on the line at any moment.Our country is in a state of war undeclared or not and you are standing ready to provide national defense-which I thank you for since I'm to damned old to do it anymore. Semper Fi Marine:flag:

[Sgt Leprechaun]

The regs are actually interesting on this particular issue, Cuba. Basically you have a choice:

Wear them all.
Wear the first three earned.
Wear none.

Usually you only see senior officers wearing the top three earned or 'none'. Most enlisted Marines wear them all, or wear nothing (in Charlies and such).

Alphas and blues, you wear them all.

[cubawatcher]

The regs are actually interesting on this particular issue, Cuba. Basically you have a choice:

Wear them all.
Wear the first three earned.
Wear none.

Usually you only see senior officers wearing the top three earned or 'none'. Most enlisted Marines wear them all, or wear nothing (in Charlies and such).

Alphas and blues, you wear them all.

I hear you sarge.I noticed you have all yours displayed.The corps has never "given" medals for no reason unlike some other branches,who come out of basic E3s on occasion with fire watch ribbons etc.As SSGT Hardy stated there is a reason these awards are made.I think the troops need to respect that and wear them with pride as part of their uniform which I hope they do wear with pride.

[HAWK0331]

I couldn't agree with you more, but the Korean Service Medal I'm entitled to and have spent four years trying to get sure would help on my Civil Service promotional test score.

[Carpshooter]

I rate two of these ribbons , could care less now ! :iwo:

[sgthammer]

Thanks Sgt Leprechaun, I feel that Head Quarters Marine Corps needs to add another era to the list: Early 1980's (not for me, I went Active Reserve in 1976, and Discharged in 1978, 6-years total) and...

[Sgt Leprechaun]

Aye. Well said.

[Snakeman2502]

Sgt Leprechaun, in your readings did you or have you seen what qualified as active duty during the periods stated for Vietnam era?

Thanks
snakeman2502:flag:

[Sgt Leprechaun]

Snakeman, basically it has to be 'non training' Active duty. Recruit Training, MOS school, etc, typically doesn't count.

[nightstalker2]

hey guys do you remember leaving boot camp and thinking only the few would ever make it through boot camp. I guess the marine corps feel the same way and this medal is showing their appreciation for the troops.

[pocatellodave]

I think a few Marines had that thought run through their minds Nightstalker,but they sucked it up and got the job done.The NDM is a Medal awarded during times when we are defending America against any enemy.Maybe some branches of the military award people for making it through boot camp,I really don't know that for sure.The Marine Corps has a Recruiting and D.I. medal,which I can't recall being in effect when I was in the Corps.
It's the guys you see wearing Recon hats and rows of ribbons they don't deserve what they are wearing that bothers me.I will ask them a few questions,and you can catch them in their lies very quickly.Every one can't be recon or a sniper.Someone has to cook,fix things etc.You have to have very low self esteem to do such things,and it bothers me because there were Brother Marines who where killed or wounded for them awards!

[pocatellodave]

Steve my wife and I are on a fixed income.I retired from the Post Office so we have it better than most,and I'm thankful for that.Why don't they tax the people who pay a lot of money to a lawyer so they can beat the system,and pay less taxes?The middle class carry this Country,and I'm proud to be middle class!

[sgthammer]

Hey Jarheads, great threads by the way. In all my years, I have YET to meet a MARINE wearing ribbons they don't rate. It's a Brotherhood, Honor, & Disipline thing I believe. Even though I joined three years before the end of the South-East Asian War Games, I could NEVER get transfered to a Hot-Spot NO matter how had I begged and I hated their guts for it but now I realized they saved my life to help my Family become better Americans. I ONLY have two ribbons: National Defense and Good Conduct. I'm Proud of them, not because of what they are, but of WHO I was at the time... A United States Marine ! Not a Swabby, or a Doggie, or some Eagle Crapper, But a REAL Leatherneck... I'm Damn Proud and thats something that can never be taken away from me.

[dirtyirish]

When I Graduated back in 69 I Volunteered and wor the NDSM like I had WON it it has nothind to do with Salad Bars or rows or anything!but in saying that I am so proud of My Marines that I would trade places with any Married Marine who has to play in ANY sandbox!
never mind the NDSM we Joined we fought (some of us) came back changed forever but one thing NEVER CHANGED WE ARE MARINES and always will be
Semper Fi
John Baker
Vietnam vet USMC
:iwo::flag:

[Carpshooter]

Dirtyrish , please fill out your profile more , it doesn't make sense ! :iwo:

[gunnyperk]

i remember when i first went in the Corps (1974) and i saw those old salts with a star on their fire watch. i thought that was the 'old guys'. then in dersert shield/strom it got authorized again, and i got a star. i rememebred that-wow, now i'm the 'old guy'.
you can stop a check, but you can't stop the clock.

DI quote when thet passed it out: "red is the blood you've never shed, blue is the seas you've never sailed, and yellow is the reason why. now put it in your seabags!"

[Bruce59]

OK. lets see if I got this right, I was active from 1959 to 1963 and I should
be eligible for a national defense even though on my DD214 says I am only
award is a good conduct. Wear will I find the room, lets see, on the right or
the left side of my good conduct ribbon. Now I try to stay away from the left
as much as possible so,,,I guess it will go on the right.

[carrvy1]

The medal was called the firewatch ribbon in 1954.

[carrvy1]

Looks like I got a star on mine, something I didn't know, but now I can't find the medal and my good conduct medal with a star.LOL. But I was always proud to wear them.

[Old Marine]

I think a few Marines had that thought run through their minds Nightstalker,but they sucked it up and got the job done.The NDM is a Medal awarded during times when we are defending America against any enemy.Maybe some branches of the military award people for making it through boot camp,I really don't know that for sure.The Marine Corps has a Recruiting and D.I. medal,which I can't recall being in effect when I was in the Corps.
It's the guys you see wearing Recon hats and rows of ribbons they don't deserve what they are wearing that bothers me.I will ask them a few questions,and you can catch them in their lies very quickly.Every one can't be recon or a sniper.Someone has to cook,fix things etc.You have to have very low self esteem to do such things,and it bothers me because there were Brother Marines who where killed or wounded for them awards!

What is a Recon hat? Are you talking about a ball cap which says Recon on the front?

[ChuckH]

I think it is the floppy rain hat we had in Nam.

[redclyde]

Oohrah Pocatellodave,well said!

S/F

Redclyde!

[William Hardy]

Steve my wife and I are on a fixed income.I retired from the Post Office so we have it better than most,and I'm thankful for that.Why don't they tax the people who pay a lot of money to a lawyer so they can beat the system,and pay less taxes?The middle class carry this Country,and I'm proud to be middle class!

I said the same thing a few weeks back. If the people who use lawyers to get a tax settlement would just pay up what they owe, it would lift a big burden off of everyone's shoulders. It makes me made every time I see those commercials, especially when they say they hablo espanoil. Then if we could fix the welfare system to assist the needed and not the lazy, we wouldn't have a tax problem in this country.

Next subject: NDSM

I have received many decorations over the course of 40+ years..18 Federal and 4 State. I was recently asked which award I held in the highest esteem. I said it was the National Defense Medal. The reason is that it has 2 stars showing I received it 3 times. It is the medal that shows my longevity during some trying times in our history...Vietnam, Desert Storm, and the War on Terror. I served in Vietnam when I was 20 and in Iraq when I was 58. Wish I could could have continued serving. At the same time, if a Marine did not serve during any of the periods that rated the NDSM, so what...the fact that you served meant you were willing to go...I respect you for that just as much as if you had a chest full of ribbons.
Semper Fi Brothers

[sgthammer]

William Hardy, Your HARDCORP and I would be proud to shake your hand. Your the type of MARINE I always wanted to be right up to the point that they lost my Re-enlistment Doucument. and I suddenly realized I could no longer provide for my family being shipped out to Okinawa, with out my wife getting my BAQ and Comrats along with my pay totaling $850. a month living on Base. I got out to be a Cop and go back to school so I could go back in as a Warrant Officer on a GunShip. But when I went back The Marine Corp denied me because I had too many dependants. It would have been alright if we had all of kids while I was on active duty.... I have kicked my self in the ass ever since. I take my hat off to you William Hardy, You really make me proud to have been a MARINE.
SEMPER FI.

[nfountai]

Was the National Defense Medal awarded after Boot Camp PI in 1966. Was there any other awards given to all recruits at graduation. My memory fails me after nearly 50 years. I finally took a position as "Sergeant at Arms" at an Amvets post. We are required to wear a cover at the meetings. I've seen some of the other "old salts" covers adorned with pins and I'd like to add some to mine when I get mine next month.

[William Hardy]

Yes. What you do is look at your DD214 and it will show what you have earned. You can always ask for a records check. You might have earned some ribbons or medals that you did not know about at the...

[FistFu68]

I'm telling Yah Gunny H anymore of those Decorations and We will have to Hold You up with a Crane LOL! Oh speaking of Ribbons Cpl.Billy Collins your out of Uniform Brother You rate the PUC for Operation Meade River the 3rd Bn.26th Marines were Awarded the Presidential Unit Citation.Go Easy Semper Fi :iwo:

[William Hardy]

Mine are for being there - only 2 for achievement - none for combat action
After 42 years, they add up - Some like my VN service medal has 3 stars..how I got 3 is beyond me when a lot of combat Marines only had 1. You have to remember that I got the standard ribbons for Nam and then the standard ones for Iraq. Then, because I was in the National Guard, I got a couple of more for being activated, like the Reserve Achievement Medal.

[FistFu68]

Your a Good Man Gunny H! My Cover goes off too Yah Go Easy Semper Fi :beer: :iwo:

[29palms]

Someone on some other forum posted that he wrote to DOD about the NDSM, and that they were looking into considering it for the years 1974-1990. My only guess is that the period that covers those years involved Beruit, Grenada, Nicaragua, El Salvador, Iranian Crisis, Afghanistan invasion and Panama. Or proxy wars of the 1980's. Though this wasn't mentioned, apparently this was considered, but however, it was later mentioned by decorations officer that there were no further plans to expand the NDSM. An NDSM seems appropriate for this time frame. Too bad.

[SGT7477]

Someone on some other forum posted that he wrote to DOD about the NDSM, and that they were looking into considering it for the years 1974-1990. My only guess is that the period that covers those years involved Beruit, Grenada, Nicaragua, El Salvador, Iranian Crisis, Afghanistan invasion and Panama. Or proxy wars of the 1980's. Though this wasn't mentioned, apparently this was considered, but however, it was later mentioned by decorations officer that there were no further plans to expand the NDSM. An NDSM seems appropriate for this time frame. Too bad.

Vietnam, Semper Fidelis.

[Rocky C]

Ronnie , I'm back !!!

Any new tat's ?

Good to see you Brother !!!

29palms, If you or anyone were on an MEU during that time period you rate it.

[29palms]

I thought it only had to do with Korea, Vietnam, and Persian Gulf, war on terrorism. Are you sure about this Rocky? National Defense Service Medal?

[Kegler300]

I received two for my service between 1975-2005 ...

[TolzerVman]

Extract DOD Manual 1348.33,Volume 2, dated November 23, 2010 Incorporating Change 2, May 15, 2015 <br />
<br />
14. NATIONAL DEFENSE SERVICEMEDAL (NDSM) <br />
a. Introduction. The NDSM was establishedby E.O....

[TolzerVman]

The Short Version:

National Defense Service Medal (NDSM) – AUTHORIZED CONFLICTS

The table below lists the designated conflicts and associated inclusive dates authorized for award
of the NDSM . The Military Departments are responsible for determining individual eligibility
for the NDSM. Please refer individual eligibility questions to your respective Military
Department.


Conflict/Inclusive Dates

Korean War June 27, 1950 to July 27, 1954

Vietnam Conflict January 1, 1961 to August 14, 1974

Gulf War August 2, 1990 to November 30, 1995

War on Terrorism September 11, 2001 to TBD

[SGT7477]

Ronnie , I'm back !!!

Any new tat's ?

Good to see you Brother !!!

29palms, If you or anyone were on an MEU during that time period you rate it.
Good to see you back Rocky, I haven't been on for quite sometime myself, busy with the construction season and the ground up restoration on my Vette, no new tats but when I get more ink it will be a Marine theme, Carry on and Semper Fidelis Brother.

[SGT7477]

I received two for my service between 1975-2005 ...
It still had to be awarded in 75 because of Nam, Semper Fidelis.

[Rocky C]

I thought it only had to do with Korea, Vietnam, and Persian Gulf, war on terrorism. Are you sure about this Rocky? National Defense Service Medal?

I was awarded one in 1978 for an MEU I was with. Can't say much more than that TSSC, OPSEC but it was peacetime service period.... Cold War....

[29palms]

mmmm.....Rocky, check it out again, are you sure it wasn't a Sea Expeditionary Medal? Or Marine Corps Expeditionary Medal? Everything I'm reading on this points to strictly Korea, Vietnam Persian Gulf, and War on Terrorism. Didn't know they offered it during peace time.

[Rocky C]

Of course I'm sure !!!

Did you see this ?

Quote Originally Posted by Kegler300

I received two for my service between 1975-2005 ...

[TolzerVman]

Of course I'm sure !!!

Did you see this ?

Quote Originally Posted by Kegler300


I received two for my service between 1975-2005 ...

That period covers the Gulf War and the War on Terrorism. But if you don't want to believe what DoD puts out there is nothing I can do about that.

[Kegler300]

It still had to be awarded in 75 because of Nam, Semper Fidelis.

The NAM-era NDSM was awarded for service up to 29 April 1975. I came in afterwards, so I only have two vice three.

[Rocky C]

That period covers the Gulf War and the War on Terrorism. But if you don't want to believe what DoD puts out there is nothing I can do about that.

I don't know what more I can tell you. Cold War period, on an MEU, in Europe, engaged by someone, awarded a NDSM which is unheard of during peacetime because it is a Wartime medal and I can't go further.

[USMC 2571]

It's kind of funny that people assume a Marine doesn't know what medal he has. Like we can't tell the difference between a Good Conduct Medal and a Navy Cross. LOL

Gee I got this Medal Of Honor when all this time I thought it was an Overseas Service Ribbon.

[Rocky C]

Hahahaha. I know Dave.

[TolzerVman]

Rocky: I am not doubting you have the NDSM. It is possible that it was given out as an Admin Error. You are not the first person I saw have an award on their DD Form 214 that should not have been on there. It was awarded and you accepted it. Or maybe there is a Department of Navy authorization that none of us are aware of.

My answer was to show the two for Kegler300's time in service that covered two periods where the NDSM was authorized.

[29palms]

Of course I'm sure !!!

Did you see this ?

Quote Originally Posted by Kegler300

I received two for my service between 1975-2005 ...



The way I read this is he got the NDSM in 1975 for Vietnam and another during the Persian Gulf War 90-95. Should have three, the last for GWOT???

[Rocky C]

Rocky: I am not doubting you have the NDSM. It is possible that it was given out as an Admin Error. You are not the first person I saw have an award on their DD Form 214 that should not have been on there. It was awarded and you accepted it. Or maybe there is a Department of Navy authorization that none of us are aware of.

My answer was to show the two for Kegler300's time in service that covered two periods where the NDSM was authorized.

No mistake. I also received a Met service medal. The authorization came from the Sec of the Navy.

I know you were talking about Keglar.

[29palms]

Kind of strange how DOD determines "State of Emergency". What constitutes? Do they go by numbers deployed? Gravity of the situation? I would assume a state of emergency would be like if our homeland was being attacked. Our citizens in imminent danger. Fighting the enemy in our shores. I suppose Korea and Vietnam was viewed as in stopping the world from communism, and Persian Gulf War viewed as to keep Saddam in check.

I don't know how the cold war with various engagements and state of alertness weighs less than global war on terrorism. I am not gun-ho about the cold war medal, certificate, whatever, but I have to admit, they do have a valid point when it comes to the NDSM. I don't believe in a stand alone cold war medal, but I am in favor of an NDSM issued out to cold war veterans if recognition is to be given to this group. Retroactively.

[SGT7477]

The NAM-era NDSM was awarded for service up to 29 April 1975. I came in afterwards, so I only have two vice three.

I know I have one from 1974, Semper Fidelis.

[29palms]

The National Defense Service Medal is a service medal of the United States Armed Forces established by President Dwight D. Eisenhower in 1953. The medal was first intended to be a "blanket campaign medal" awarded to service members who served honorably during a designated time period of which a "national emergency" had been declared during a time of war or conflict. It may also be issued to active military members for any other period that the Secretary of Defense designates.

(As in the case as Rocky.)

[Rocky C]

Yes Indeed Brother. Not many of us during that period have been issued it.

[29palms]

That is quite impressive Rocky. I would probably cherish that highly issued under circumstances that drives the Sec of Def to issue this medal aside those normally given war dates. Never heard of that before.

[Rocky C]

Thank you Brother. It came at a price tho but I did my job.

[Hammer]

Ah Yes! The National Defense medal. Commonly called the "Fire Watch" medal. I was awarded the medal; and have the medal in a drawer somewhere along with a few others. I thought it was issued to those who survived boot camp. If it wasn't, it should have been.

[Rocky C]

Hahahahahaha, Love it Mitch, lol....

[29palms]

For those that survived boot camp during certain time periods. But....ya gotta have that time period. Just like joining American Legion.

[jerryd6818]

I went to Viet Nam in August of 1965 and caught my freedom bird 22 August 1966. I was not a combat Marine. These are the ribbons I came home with. I do not apologize for any of that.

29943

A few years ago while talking to a guy I was stationed with in Viet Nam, the talk turned to ribbons and he said we rated more than we had returned home with. I sent in a request for an update to my ribbons and awards. This is what they sent to me. They are official. I do not apologize for them. They do not embarrass me.

29944

[MunkyVsRobot]

Is there something special about this medal? If there is I am not sure of it, mainly because right now everyone who completes bootcamp rates it same thing like the GWOT all you have to do is spend 30 days in the fleet and you get it.

[William Hardy]

Ah Yes! The National Defense medal. Commonly called the "Fire Watch" medal. I was awarded the medal; and have the medal in a drawer somewhere along with a few others. I thought it was issued to those who survived boot camp. If it wasn't, it should have been.

Odd how some of us look at things differently. My NDSM is a very special one for me. The reason and times for issuance of the medal is explained at: http://www.afpc.af.mil/library/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=7803

I was awarded the NDSM 3 times. Once for Vietnam, once for Desert Storm, and once for the War on Terror. You may dismiss it but it shows you served when your country needed you. I served hitches over a long period of time and I am proud that I was there when my country needed me. I was activated and in the process of going to Desert Storm, but as everyone knows, it didn't last very long.

I have a nice set of medals and ribbons, but when you serve over a course of some 40 years, and serve in two combat zones, you get a ribbon or two.

http://www.leatherneck.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=29946&stc=1

[William Hardy]

PS - everyone who served a full tour in Vietnam should have 3 service stars on their ribbon. There is a list of the various operations. I had a friend who was wondering how a communicator with 1st MAW had more service stars than a person who served with 1st MARDIV. I told him I didn't and that he was out of uniform. He checked with the admin chief and updated his rack. You see, it makes no difference where you served, only the time of service. It isn't about individual patrols and staying in the field. To earn service stars is to have served in country during specific times. Kind of takes the starch out of the stars doesn't it? The CAR is not far behind. No matter how much "combat" you saw, you must meet the requirements of being named by a SNCO or Officer and you must have exchanged small arms fire (fire fight). As a result of the way the rules were written, many people with Purple Hearts do not have a CAR, including those that were killed by incoming rockets and mortars. Those that were a part of a group that repelled sappers or others who guarded the perimeter did not qualify under the rules for a CAR. Because of that, it takes away a lot from those that earned it but was never awarded the ribbon. Just ask any Wing Wiper about the number of times they had to go through s#!t; had buddies killed, etc. and nobody got jack for it. At least the NDSM recognizes everyone who served during a time of National defense, regardless of where they served. Without the efforts of our members in MOSs such as logistics, those in the field would never have what they needed to carry out their missions. The second award I was given (not earned) was the MUC. After boot, I went to ITR, but my company was not up to strength for training. We were all Marines destined for various "A" schools and did not go through the long course in ITR. It took 2 weeks to get enough people to train. In the meanwhile, I was farmed out to 2nd Service BN (officially on the books). I spent 2 weeks picking up paper and cleaning up the rec rooms. 6 years later when I made SSgt, my roommate was the Admin Chief at Camp Foster and he sent off for an update on my awards. It came back with a letter that said the 2nd Service BN was awarded the MUC for support of combat activities in Vietnam. Because I was attached to them for 2 weeks on police duty, I was given the award.

[Rocky C]

Is there something special about this medal? If there is I am not sure of it, mainly because right now everyone who completes bootcamp rates it same thing like the GWOT all you have to do is spend 30 days in the fleet and you get it.

For some of us it represents a huge sacrifice that we live with everyday. Some can't talk about it, some won't.