Army Chaplain Sells Water To Troops

[SHOOTER1]

Did anybody else read about the Army Chaplan who had a 500 gal tank of water, but would not give any to the troops unless they let him Baptize them? This cant be,In the middle of the Desert, a...

[yellowwing]

The Western/Anglo beliefs have always facinated us Native Americans. A Chaplain in a combat unit bewilders us. That's almost as curious a putting a man to death, but first we will give him one last great meal!

[firstsgtmike]

In the early 60's a serviceman stationed overseas had to get permission in order to marry. For Marines on Okinawa the paperwork required was quite extensive.

One of the many requirements was counseling of the Marine and his fiancee by a chaplain.

I learned from the experiences of Marines who preceeded me. Our base chaplain was catholic. He REQUIRED the fiancee to take bible classes and convert to catholicism before he would sign the form that the Marine had been counseled according to MCO xxxxx.

Two "christian" chaplains on two other bases had similar reqirements. I went to DIVHQ, found a Jewish chaplain and told him I was an athiest. Therefore, the counseling required by MCO xxx should be limited to the social ramifications of me marrying outside my "religion".

We chatted for an hour and a half. When I returned with my fiancee the following day, the chaplain's secretary served us tea and cookies.

My friend Juan Rios, who came from a Catholic Mexican-American family, had his wife baptized by the catholic chaplain and received the "I have counseled" form.

Neither Juan or his wife ever stepped foot in a church again. His four children have never been baptized, and I doubt if his three grandchildren have been baptized either.

I wonder if the chaplain in the lead article realizes exactly what a drink of water cost him and his church. And I would remind him that the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

[Barrio_rat]

Okay, but what if I have already been baptized but not in the faith or in the manner of doctrine that this chaplain follows? Would I need to be baptized again - under a different faith? The sh.thead in me says, yeah, I'll get baptized for some water that I desprately want/need. But when this chaplain pours/sprinkles/douses me with the holy water, I'd probably scream.. IT BURNS, IT BURNS.. OH GREAT SATAN STOP THE BURNING! I know it'd get a laugh from someone. Now, even with that, would I still get my water? After all, I followed his rules.

[wrbones]

Naw, Rat, ya cut yerself in fer a part of the deal, then take over! ;)

It's called a church split! Lots of fun! Ya oughta try it sometime!

[Barrio_rat]

I suppose... But I'd have a hard time makin profit off others needs - at least and especially in that type of environment....

[Fox 2/23]

not all Europeans in this country are Anglos, though most probably speak English. Call an Irishman or a Scot an Anglo and you may have a problem on your hands. They are Celtic in origin, not Germanic.

[thedrifter]

Posted on Thu, Apr. 10, 2003

Army investigates chaplain trading water for baptisms
By TONY PUGH and KEN GARFIELD
Knight Ridder Newspapers

WASHINGTON - The U.S. Army Office of the Chief of Chaplains is checking into a report by Knight Ridder Newspapers that an Army chaplain in Iraq withheld clean bathing water from U.S. soldiers who did not first agree to hear a sermon and be baptized.

The allegation against Chaplain Josh Llano, 32, of Houston, has drawn heated responses from religious, civil libertarian and atheist groups who say the practice amounts to religious coercion. Army officials said that so far their investigation hasn't shown that to be true.

"Neither the Army nor the Army Chief of Chaplains approves of religious coercion, but reports we've gotten indicate that's not what this was at all," said Pentagon spokesperson Martha Rudd, who added that there was plenty of additional water available to soldiers at that camp.

"We don't have any information at this time that the chaplain was coercing anyone. But we're still looking into it."

Army Chief of Chaplains Gaylord Gunhus said he believes Llano was simply joking with soldiers of the Army V Corps combat support system at Camp Bushmaster near Najaf.

"I have confidence in my chaplains," Gunhus said from his office at the Pentagon. "It had nothing to do with keeping people from having water or anything at all. Speculation is, he was jesting with a bunch of folks."

Llano, a Southern Baptist, recently told a Knight Ridder reporter that he makes soldiers sit through a 90-minute sermon and then take part in baptismal services in a 500-gallon container used only for baptisms. Rudd said many of the soldiers had gone up to 10 days without a shower.

In the story, which appeared in newspapers throughout the country, Llano said the soldiers willingly agreed to his terms. Said Llano in the story: "It's simple. They want water. I have it, as long as they agree to get baptized."

Llano could not be reached for comment on Thursday. But Rudd said Llano told investigators he does not recall making those statements. She said Llano's commanders have denied the water-for-baptism allegations. Knight Ridder reporter Meg Laughlin, who wrote the original story, noted that she was not alone when Llano made the statements.

But the media accounts have set off a controversy. Military chaplains are supposed to provide services when asked - and with no conditions, said Edd Doerr, executive director of Americans for Religious Liberty, a multi-faith group in Washington that advocates for separation of church and state. Requiring soldiers to be baptized in exchange for water ignores their right to religious freedom, Doerr said.

"This guy went way overboard," Doerr said of Llano. "Chaplains have got to have an appreciation for the diverse faiths of the men they're serving."

Doerr said his group has sent a letter asking Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld to "do whatever it takes to get (Llano) to behave."

Llano is trying to "lure potential converts and he is preying on vulnerable, stressed-out military men and women," to do so, according to a statement by Kathleen Johnson, military director for American Atheists, a civil rights advocacy group in Parsippany, N.J.

"Pastor Llano should share water and other resources with all needy troops. He's using government resources to advance his particular religious agenda," Johnson's statement said.

Llano was an Army drill sergeant before he was ordained, and served as a military chaplain through the Southern Baptist Convention's North American Mission Board in Alpharetta, Ga. The convention has 320 military chaplains serving in the Middle East.

North American Mission Board Vice President John Yarbrough said he will wait to see what the Army finds before responding. The options include counseling Llano or revoking his endorsement to serve as a military chaplain through the Southern Baptist Convention.

While not confirming whether Llano erred, Yarbrough said: "This is very atypical of the way our chaplains would function."

Rudd said the investigation would be conducted on an informal basis and would not require input from the Army Office of Inspector General.

(Garfield reported from Charlotte, Pugh from Washington.)

Sempers,

Roger

[greensideout]

Careful here.

Give the chaplain "his day in court" before you burn him at the stake.