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MillRatUSMC
04-06-03, 09:22 AM
http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/040503/opl_12197185.shtml
Another idiot...Wayne Francis...we should send his sorry a$$ to Iraq along with Nickolas De Genova and their like.

IRAQ: War is a waste of resources and lives

Countless conservative, right-wing supporters of President Bush continue to believe that their king can do no wrong, and that this war in Iraq is morally justified.
Somehow our Republican leaders have convinced their credulous constituencies that fighting Iraq will help us win the war on terrorism. Much of this country, as well as the rest of the planet, knows better. This is why we have filled the streets to protest this war.
While people like Osama bin Laden and countries like Saudi Arabia and North Korea enjoy unprecedented freedom and liberty to terrorize whomever they wish, hundreds of innocent Iraqi citizens are being murdered, starved and forced from their homes, all in the name of "liberation" from Saddam Hussein, a man who has not threatened or harmed the United States for 12 years.
Then, it comes as no surprise that of the 190 countries in the world, only two have a majority of citizens that support Bush's war against Iraq. The United States and Israel both have slight majorities that support Bush's war.
This is at a time when our media have demonstrated a level of bias toward the right that is un- paralleled in American history.
The rhetoric coming from the right ranges from the silly (America has a liberal media) to the downright absurd (anyone who protests this war is an un-American, Saddam sympathizer).
Such nonsense is spoon-fed to conservatives by news networks and radio personalities. Many times, it is hard to tell one Bush supporter from the next, because they repeat the same talking points over and over, obviously unable to form an original thought on their own.
The people who protest Bush's war want to win the war against terrorism, but not at the expense of the deaths of Iraqi citizens. We want to find bin Laden and use whatever means necessary to fight the al-Qaida terrorist network.
We are now $75 billion into the war. Several hundred people on both sides have died. For what?
In the end, history will judge this war as morally unjustified and a colossal waste of resources and human life.
WAYNE FRANCIS
Jacksonville, Florida

What an idiot...what's his thinking on this?
"While people like Osama bin Laden and countries like Saudi Arabia and North Korea enjoy unprecedented freedom and liberty to terrorize whomever they wish, hundreds of innocent Iraqi citizens are being murdered, starved and forced from their homes, all in the name of "liberation" from Saddam Hussein, a man who has not threatened or harmed the United States for 12 years."

Semper Fidelis
Ricardo

greybeard
04-06-03, 11:00 AM
Wonder why he didn't complain when the Iraqi regime was killing thousands and driving thousands of others from their homes. Selective compassion.

lurchenstein
04-06-03, 01:41 PM
Such nonsense is spoon-fed to conservatives by news networks and radio personalities. Many times, it is hard to tell one Bush supporter from the next, because they repeat the same talking points over and over, obviously unable to form an original thought on their own.

Sounds like classic anti-war protestor tactics & commentary.
Think this boy is confused?:qmark:

BigCat
04-06-03, 05:30 PM
Sounds alot like Susan Saranwrap....."What has Iraq done to us?"....These left wingers just don't get it. It's not what he's done to us....It's what he's done to his own people and the potential to export his brand of terrorism thoughout the world using any number of terrorist organizations and cells.....The only way the left wing will ever learn this is when 9/11 happens all over again....And even then, I don't think they'll get it!

MAJMike
04-06-03, 09:28 PM
Staff Sergeant:

I would remind you that any American citizen has the right voice his or her opinion about this war, this government or any other thing he or she wishes to comment upon as long as it is not libelous, scandelous or is a breach of national security.

In fact, I would point out that the reason that some 250,000 coalition troops are fighting and dying in Iraq is to give the Iraqi people the freedom to speak their mind about their government, something that would have brought them the most severe repercussions under the Sadam regime.

While you may not agree with Mr. Francis, Mr. De Genova or any other American exercising one of our most basic freedoms, do not for one instance deny or attempt to punish him for speaking his mind.

I, you, and most everyone else on this forum, fought and sacrificed to defend freedom, of which freedom of speech is an integral part. Marines today are fighting to give millions of Iraqi's the same basic freedoms. Let's not deny it to any of our own.

May I remind you of a famous remark by that great patriot Patrick Henry quoting Voltaire: "I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to my death your right to say it."

Remember the words "First to fight for right and freedom..."

Mike Ventura
MAJ USMCR 1968-1975

wrbones
04-06-03, 09:49 PM
I became concerned myself about some words that were being publicly spoken and recorded around the country recently, and began to look up some ifno about certain things regarding the behaviour of those who disagee so strongly with our current stance militarily and geo-politically. I have posted some of that information on this site as I find it. Below is a link to a thread on this site about treason and sedition and what the Constitution and the law say about some types of dissent. I did not coment, leaving it up to each of us to make up our own minds in this matter.

http://www.leatherneck.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3744&highlight=sedition+and+treason

One thing I try to keep in mind is the advice an old Master Sergeant gave me years ago as I was bending his ear about a problem child in my section. Once I wound down a little, he said, "Sergeant, sometimes ya just gotta let the Privates *****." He then walked away without another word.

However, I do know that when the Privates begin talking in a mutinous manner, other actions may become neccessary.


BTW. Some of the esteemed Professor's words are recorded here:

http://www.leatherneck.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5343&highlight=Prof+Genova

Mr. Francis's words are an exercise in freedom of speech. It is our freedom to disagree with him. The Professor's words may be quite another matter.

MillRatUSMC
04-06-03, 11:18 PM
Yes, Major Mike you're correct...we swore to defend and protect the Constitution of the United States of America.
We all have our favorite patroit from the revolutionary war of 1776.
Mine happen to be this patroit;
http://fire.pppl.gov/american_crisis.jpg
Thomas Paine
They have their right to spoud off against the American military and this Nation.
My right is to question where we draw the line on treason and sedation...more commonly known as aiding and abetting an enemy of the United States of America.
Thomas Paine spoke about the sunshine soldier and the sunshine patroit.
The sunshine soldier will shirk his duty.
I don't plan to shirk my duty to the American military.
Something Maria De Marcial Gonzalez said to her grandson'
"If you're invited to a dinner in someone home, it's your duty to repay that kindness."
Her sons, grandsons and great grandsons and many to follow will and have repaid this Nation for her bounty.
I was her oldest grandson.
Thanks Grandma for your wisdom.

Semper Fidelis
Ricardo

firstsgtmike
04-07-03, 01:28 AM
This may **** many people off, but that's their problem, Not Mine.

I'm referring to MillRatUSMC's post. My grandparents were the children of Polish and Irish immigrants. (Before wwi.)

I was never taught patriotism as a family thing. My uncles went off to WWII. Honestly, I don't know who were drafted and who were volunteers. My father tried to volunteer but he was an essential war worker with three children.

I was four, and don't remember hearing about Pearl Harbor. I was 14 when Korea started. That was an abstract, something that interfered with the reading of the sports and comic strips in the newspapers.

I learned my patriotism at the age of 21 when I joined the Marine Corps. (Why is a different story.)

HOWEVER. And this is the meaning of this post; looking back, I have always felt that the truly most patriotic of us were the immigrants following WWI and especially WWII who came to this country for what it represented to them. FREEDOM! And they have appreciated and respected it more than those of us who took it for granted.

I do have a problem with those past arrivals from South America and Mexico who refused to assimulate and set up enclaves in various American cities.

But those who have accepted "American" ideals, have become more "American" than the rest of us.

Thank you Ricardo for reminding me of that which I have known.

Sparrowhawk
04-07-03, 03:42 AM
MAJMike your right and MillRatUSMC your right and stupid WAYNE FRANCIS is wrong.

But, as you said, Francis has every right to be wrong. Anyway, i went to the Jacksonville bulletin web site where Mr. Francis posted his comment and answered him.

<hr>


http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/040503/opl_12197185.shtml

FRANCIS FRANCIS FRANCIS

You are so far left wing, and twisted in your mind, and involved in liberal politics that you can't see what is right from wrong.

According to your reasoning you should be glad the U.S. and British Forces are killing all those Republicans in Iraq.

I have never read a more stupid statement in all the media, if you keep writing like that the Arab tabloids will hire you or perhaps you can have your own column in the New York Times.

It's people like you that I set up the web site
stupidantiwarprotestors.com (http://www.stupidantiwarprotestors.com )

Cook Barela