Drill Instructor guilty of abusing recruits

[testforecho2112]

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/11/14/marine.instructor.ap/index.html <br />
<br />
SAN DIEGO, California (AP) -- A Marine boot camp drill instructor was convicted Wednesday of abusing recruits under his command. <br />
...

[Big Jim]

Is this it?!?! Is this all?! Yeah, he may have been abusive but how many good Marines has he turned out at the MCRD. In my opinion, I think the recruit just went crying to mama and she called the Senator and then heads started rolling. I was hit and beat in boot camp...yeah I was...as was alot of other recruits! I needed it and I thanked my DI's for it after I graduated! Just liike a bunch of other kids needed it...and I'm still here and I was a BETTER Marine and person for it!!! This is also how the "stress cards" were introduced and how this deteriorated our Marine ranks with selfish Marines and NCOs. I seen changes in the USMC before I got out, some good, some bad. Different generations of Marines can tell you the same that it wasn't like that when they were in...it was tougher...and what made us tough you ask? Our beloved Drill Instructors who taught us by the numbers and if we didn't learn, we paid for it with pain and sweat!! IT MADE US STRONGER!!!

Now, I'm not saying I'm for abusing anyone, especially a recruit but I'm not against Corporal or Capital punishment either. Its about firm, fair consistency and I believe when the politicians get involved with our beloved Corps...unfavorable policies start coming into play. Which means a domino effect that makes for lax rules and less strict enforcment and less cohesion of our comraderie and less intention to be a good and honest Marine. If the recruit couldn't hack boot camp...they should've sent his ass home!!!

Sorry....just came out!

[greensideout]

Well---I'm going to step out of line here a bit on this one---A jury that most likely didn't have a clue as to what Marine training is really like made a really dumb ass call on this one!!! If they had any idea of what MY Drill Instructors were like they would likely **** their panties! I belive that this Drill Instructor was doing his best to prepare the recruits for the combat that they would soon be in. He has been there! A man, in this case a Marine, is to be judged by his peers. Likely, he was not!!! :mad:

[warren peck]

WHAT THE HELL IS HAPPENING TO THE CORPS ? I WENT THRU PARRIS ISLAND IN 1953 AND GOT THE **** KICKED OUT OF ME , THE SAME AS ALL MY PLATOON BUDDIES DID. THAT'S WHAT MADE US MARINES. BIG JIM, YOU HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD-THAT PUSS RAN TO MOMMY.:evilgrin:

[killerinstinct]

Whats funny is they cant do anything like that in bootcamp but i always find it funny, how in the fleet,you can get taped to a chair rolled out in the back and stay there....

H

[Old Marine]

Well---I'm going to step out of line here a bit on this one---A jury that most likely didn't have a clue as to what Marine training is really like made a really dumb ass call on this one!!! If they had any idea of what MY Drill Instructors were like they would likely **** their panties! I belive that this Drill Instructor was doing his best to prepare the recruits for the combat that they would soon be in. He has been there! A man, in this case a Marine, is to be judged by his peers. Likely, he was not!!! :mad:

Did you read the article? It was a court Martial and had a military jury that consisted of enlisted and officers. Even if it was BS.

[Duke1970]

Just like the rest of you, I received my share of 'thumps' for boot camp infractions. However I do not recall any DI breaking personal items by stomping on shaving kits or anything like that. When I was on the receiving end of a DI's displeasure, it was for something I did and I never did the wrong thing twice!

I just wonder what else happened that was not in the article?

[Buckeye]

They want the title of Marine,but not willing to go through the steps....These pussies are making my Marine Corps. weak......:evilgrin: .GO HOME!!!This is why everyone can't be Marines!!!!!

[Rowdy1948]

I wonder what they thought Marine training was going to be like, if your going to be a Marine you have got to be trained to be a Marine, Yes its tough that is why One reason i'm here today alive and talking about it,because you have to tough it out. Semper Fi. Do or Die.

[jetdawgg]

Isn't USMC boot camp available for video game playing now?:usmc:

Unreal

[jinelson]

I've said it many times before and I will say it again I was never touched, sworn at, or harrassed in any way shape or form during my recruit training. What happened in the platoon stayed in the platoon. All I can offer as proof is that I'm here to say this, I got through the Nam and the happy homecoming and I owe that to my Drill Instructors and no one else.

Semper Fi Bro's

Jim

[maverickmarine]

I had good training, that's what I call it, as well. I didn't know too much about the Corps before I went in other than it was going to be tough and that's just what it was. I hate it when recruits start crying home and then mama's gotta get involved. Personally, I didn't read anything that worth the punishment that he received.

[Old Marine]

As a DI, I learned that if you teach the recruits there can be thumping(held at a minimum). I used to have a Pvt who could not drill with the platoon and I made him sneak along the parade deck and hide behind the palm trees during drill.(Called him Gomer) He finally came around and made squad leader.

When I went through Boot, I received a can of Planters Peanuts in the mail. Was called to the Duty Hut and had to stand at attention in front of the DI's desk and he threw one peanut at a time to my open mouth. For every one I missed, the Pfc. D.I. gave me a love tap in the gut. Sure was glad when the peanuts ran out. Maybe things are getting soft these days at both Recruit depots. Have to remember that a BAM is the CG at MCRD, San Diego. Not that I have anything against BAMS.

[MarineNCO]

There are very specific guidelines as to what is and is not acceptable behavior towards recruits during recruit training. I am sure all facets were considered before this Marine got convicted. That being said he must have done some pretty crazy crap to get 11 years.

[oneshot649]

I had good training, that's what I call it, as well. I didn't know too much about the Corps before I went in other than it was going to be tough and that's just what it was. I hate it when recruits start crying home and then mama's gotta get involved. Personally, I didn't read anything that worth the punishment that he received.

Reading from an LA Times article on it, it wasn't one of the recruits who was listed as being abused that came forward, but a recruit that witnessed it. Apparently, the incident that sparked it involved a recruit overtaking Sgt. Glass and instead of calling out "By your leave, good evening, sir" he only said "good evening, sir". Sgt. Glass then reportedly took the recruit's moonbeam and started striking him over the head with it repeatedly until the recruit was crying. It was another recruit who witnessed it and reported it to his SDI, which then sparked the investigation, etc.

When i was at PI, i was on 3rd Deck, Follow Series, "the land God never set eyes on". We got hit by one DI or another starting the second week of training and continuing until we got to the rifle range, upon which every day resembled one of those russian-conscript-beatdown videos. The physical abuse never bothered me actually, i preferred to get slugged, or kicked, in the chest any day instead of spending 10 or more minutes on the QD. Once i was through training though, i asked around other platoons (who are always looking to show how much tougher they are) and i don't remember any of them having gotten touched more than once or twice. My best friend went through PI in the same company a few months after i got out and reported never seeing what happened in my platoon, his actual quote being: "You must have been in a really jacked-up platoon."

So my question after boot was this: Is a recruit who was hit and kicked by his DI's any tougher or more of a Marine than a recruit who just spent half his cycle on the QD? From the Marines i've known, the only difference seems to be that the ones who were hit like to talk about how having been hit makes them better than the ones who weren't hit. Not saying that's representative of all you old salts out there, but that seems to be the trend i've noticed with guys coming out recently.

[outlaw3179]

Unfuc*ingbelivable. Complet BullS*it. Semper Fu*cking Fi.

[gutinstinct]

Living in New York City I see (everyday)the effects of our liberal politicians at work. I pray to God that they DO NOT try to interfere with the way the Marine Corps trains it's recruits do to a little momma's boy who didn't like what was going on in boot camp. What the hell was he thinking when he joined the Corps ? I don't want to get into boot camp war stories but our DI"s would make us drink and until empty from our (full)canteens and than PT us until we puked. Whats the big deal ? Furthermore, I got my ass kicked plenty of times. I feel to this day that some how it made me a better person. If I could locate my DI's today I would thank them for the type of training they gave me in boot camp. Big Jim am with you brother.

[tankertor]

i went through boot camp in 1961--i was beaten, cursed at, degraded, you name it, and those depraved D I"s did it all--and i wish i could meet each an every one of those jerks look them in the eye and personally thank them for making me a man--they did it, (the beating's etc ) i deserved it, and i am better off because of them today--to those men i say semper fi, god bless you and your families--if there were more men like them, and less like are politicians, we would probably win a few wars--to all those DI"s out on the grinder, take it to them.

[yellowwing]

Despite Mothers of America and Barbara Streisand types, today's Marines are still doing a tremendous job up to each challenge we ask of them.

Today's Marines are no less because their Drill Instructors did not pummel them.

Sgt. Glass was given specific orders that he was found guilty of violating. We all know that the UCMJ is very inflexible and unforgiving.

But the UCMJ is inflexible and unforgiving for everyone with a DOD ID Card.

[Merc6432]

Not to be supportive of these whiny sniveling little recruit f***ups but let's face it, these DI's are no saints. Yes, they are supposed to be tough but the DIs have orders to follow as well. How can...

[OLE SARG]

What outlaw3179 said!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

They keep this Bull**** up and we will lose our wonderful recruit training - I went through Bootcamp in July 1961, and just like Old Marine, I got my fair share of THUMPS and I probably deserved every one I got!!!!!! You seem to learn better with a DI stuck in your ear and screaming at the top of his lungs. I know it worked with me!!!!!!!!!!!

SEMPER FI,

[sparkie]

Too bad for the puke who didn't get his ribs kicked in. Making a Marine is like a Blacksmith making a weapon. Life is hard.

[yellowwing]

The Corps took Fallujah and secured Al Anbar without the likes of Sgt Glass beating recruits. Buttom line he was given an order and he did not follow it.

Calling those others p*ssies for not getting beaten is cheapening their Honor Courage and Commitment.

[LCPLE3]

Marine gets reduced sentence in recruit abuses <br />
<br />
Drill instructor charged with maltreatment of 23; none seriously injured <br />
<br />
Nov. 15, 2007&lt;SCRIPT language=javascript&gt; function UpdateTimeStamp(pdt)...

[HardJedi]

"They said Glass and another drill instructor would line recruits up after meals and force them to down liters of water from their canteens in a ritual they referred to as "waterbowling.""


that is abuse? we did that every night before we hit the rack. it was to make sure we stayed hydrated. so what?

[yellowwing]

So what? Sgt Glass had predefined conditions to fulfill his orders of, "Train Your Platoon."

Hundreds of other Drill Instructor did not beat their Recruits, and the Recruits graduated and went on to win Iraq.

It takes generations upon generations to change the UCMJ. It really wasn't that long ago where we flogged malcontents.

[HardJedi]

hey, i am all against physical abuse, of any kind, but making people drink water is abuse? thats all I am saying.

[yellowwing]

Flogging, a nine tail whip of heavy leather tipped by brass studs. "OUCH, SHIITE, ! THAT HURTS LIKE HELL!"

But back in the day that was the daily due if you stepped out of line.

Marines accomplished the job in both 1775 and 2007!

[Isrowei]

The reason Sgt Glass was punished and several other DI's have been punished recently is because of one simple concept:

Marines are taught to follow lawful orders. When a Marine refuses to follow a lawful order, he is punished.

Now, for all the self-righteousness in here, please tell me what was UNLAWFUL about the Recruit Training ORDERS that these DIs were duty-bound to uphold. I don't care whether you LIKE them or not.

Here's the second truism of the Corps:

When a Marine shows himself incapable of handling the responsibility he currently has, it is taken away and he is put on a shorter "leash" (given less responsibility).

Many years ago, DIs had far more leeway in how they trained recruits, this is true. But there were abuses of the system... this cannot be argued. It happened. As a culture, it happened. So, the rules were changed to become tighter. Most Drill Instructors buckled down and did their job admirably. But some still bucked the system and continued in their own methods. So the rules have become even tighter. Fast forward this process many iterations to today.

So that brings me to the third truism:

The rules that Marines have today are a direct reflection of the actions and inactions that have transpired in former years.

Rules don't happen on their own. And contrary to what you want to believe, civilians DON'T set our rules. Marines do. If you want to blame someone, look back and remember the knuckleheads who couldn't follow the simple rules.

Sergeant Glass was prosecuted for disobeying a lawful order. That lawful order was put in place because of the misconduct of Marines that came before him. What you believe about boot camp has no bearing here. He transgressed his duties as an NCO, as a Marine, as a leader of Marines... How can the Corps expect him to ever be the example again?

You all know how important is it that Marines do what is right. THAT is our foundation. Not some random practices in boot camp. And THAT is why, whether a recruit is "thumped" or not, we have consistently produced high quality Marines over the years.

Discipline is derived from holding ourselves to a standard. That standard has nothing to do with physical interactions between DI and Recruit. It has everything to do with the moral and ethical character that is developed in the recruits via the complete example of personal and professional conduct of the DI.

[HardJedi]

Just Curious, Isrowei, but why are you still a 1st LT, after ten years in, especially ig you went to the Naval academy? not accusing you of anything, just curious, I thought most people made captain in 6 years. I thought, I could be wrong ( probably am)

[Isrowei]

4 years enlisted + 4 years of college + >2 as an officer = 1stLt.

No offense taken. My extra time went into my enlisted years, hence the mustang reference in my sig.

[HardJedi]

LMAO! I never even botherd looking at the mustang thing LOL my bad! ( mean for some reason i never noticed your sig line before)

[buddha71]

I thought these recruits wanted to become Marines, they must have signed the wrong contract and thought this was the Air Force. Wow, no wonder so there are so many pantywastes wearing our uniform.

[jetdawgg]

I don't think that the Marines of today are panty waists at all. I have met several of them, some full units and some individually around the nation (particularly the SEUSA).

I have nothing but good things to say about them. I am very proud of them. I think that they will carry on the Marine Corps for many more centuries.

Following orders is one fo the basics of every Marine. We can argue and fight later (as we most likely will).

The Marines I met know that I am 'old corps' but they showed me the 'espirit de corps' necessary to be one of us. There will always be a few bad apples, a few Marines who may do something to get a DI in trouble.

Maybe the DI was abusive. That is a quality that is practically immeasurable as we all have a different tolerance factor. If the case here had 500 DI's in trouble then I would see that as a problem.

The Marine Corps will always be the Marine Corps:usmc: :flag:

[osborned]

Well, I can say firsthand that there was no physical abuse of any kind in our platoon. No one was EVER hit or made to do anything harmful to themselves. The worst we had to do was close the portholes and shake out our blankets for an hour. Or hold out rifles if we weren't paying attention in drill, that kind of thing. Then again, we were the gunny platoon in Kilo Co., so our training style was a little different. We heard plenty about other platoons getting knocked around by their DI's, but it never happened to us.

There was only one incident with our platoon that came near abuse, and it wasn't one of our DI's. Our guide was in the chow hall fetching the guidon, and turned a corner and damn near bumped right into a DI. I'm not sure if this was this DI's first tour, but we'd certainly never seen him before and he was with another company. Our guide was still pretty green about his duties and managed to screw up the greeting of the day out of nervousness, fumbled with the guidon, then made a run for it.

Then the DI spat on him as he left.

That Marine is no longer a DI. Our company first sergeant made it a personal mission to hunt him down and he did.

[BikerCrewChief]

Let me tell a story. When I was in Boot Camp, the DIs asked us if we what'd "Hard cover" or "Soft cover", the platoon voted for "Hard cover". I, for one, did not what anyone to be able to say "you didn't have it as hard as we did when I went to Boot Camp". This was at the end of Vietnam, things where a little differant back then. So we got what we asked for, if you know what I mean!! I became the "Guide" after first phase drill comp. when we did not win, I never lost the job. Our DIs expedited me to take care of any problems that I could, that meant I have to use "force" if necessary. If the offender payed, we all did not have to pay.

We had this one guy that could not do anything right. I helped him when I could, some times with quiet teaching, some times with "force".

When we got about half way in to third phase, three Pvts and I where called out to go to the Company Commanders office. We where separated and interrogated about a report that the DIs, and myself, happen abused this Pvt. I have no idea what the other Pvts said, but I told the CC that I had not witnessed or had I ever abused any Pvt. After everyone had been interviewed, I was called back into the CC and he told me that the Pvt had told his mother about the abuse and she had told his Dad who in turn had told his Friend "The Congressman" who told the GC of MCRD, and the S*** rolled down hill from there! Then he told me, "If you don't want to spent a very long time in jail, you need to tell me about the two Jr DIs "abusing" this Pvt". He gave me a form and told me to write out a statement "ratting out" the DIs and I could go "free".

So here I sit in a room by myself, wondering what the other PVTs have said and how was I going to get out of this mess!

Then I remembered back when we where at ITS. We had been marching down a dirt road out in the middle of Pendleton some where, when the DI called us to a halt, and told us to take "5". I was sitting at the head of the platoon, when I looked down the road and saw the CC and First Sgt headed in our direction. I looked around for a DI to call us to attention, but they had disappeared. So it fell on me to call the platoon to attention and salute for the platoon. I stood up and call "attention", but I could not get my S*** squared away in time to salute properly with the Guide-on. I was supposed to have the guide on in my left hand, and salute across my chest to it, but with my pack on I could not keep my M16 on my shoulder, someone usually helped me wedge it in between my shelter half and pack, but everone was trying to get squired away them selfs, so I had no help. The result was, I held the Guide-on and my M16 in my left hand and saluted normally. The CC returned my salute and then said " That's not how you are supposed to salute, is it" I said "No sir". He said "Let me help you", and he wedged my M16 in, and said, "Now do it right". I did, he turned my salute and said "Very good, care on" AND PUNCHED ME IN THE SHOULDER!!!

So, back to me sitting in a room alone with a blank piece of paper and my future in the Corp at stake. So I wrote, "I have never seen a DI strike, or have I ever hit a Pvt any harder that the Company Commander hit up at ITS". I gave it to the First Sgt and he told me I could go back to the platoon.

The next day they came and got the "scumbag" and took him away. The next time we saw him he had a big POW on his back. The only thing that was ever said to me about it afterwords was, one of the JRs came up beside me and said "You have the biggest BALLS I have ever seen" and walked away.
End of story!! :evilgrin:

[Isrowei]

Guess that goes to show that leadership rots from the top down...

So tell me again, for those of you inclined to support this kind of behavior, how is one supposed to enforce discipline, self-control, Core Values stuff... when one doesn't practice it themself?

This is why the Sergeant was punished and removed. He had compromised his integrity by disobeying orders. From your story, Bikercrewchief, that whole chain was corrupt. Integrity is a very fragile thing. It takes consistent daily attention to maintain... and only a moments inattention to lose...

[mynameispawpaw]

I'm sure this is the rantings of the liberal media. ( You know, the one that's supposed to be unbiased.) You don't hear the other side of the story. Anyway, this kid obviously needed to go into the Air Farce if he didn't want to be trained to be a warrior. There, at least someone can wake him calmly, make his rack for him and never, never abuse him.

[yellowwing]

No its not the Liberal Media, just standing Marine Corps Orders.

[jetdawgg]

http://ollalumni.files.wordpress.com/2006/12/beetle-bailey.gif

[greensideout]

I'm not sure it's that simple wing. Consider this current case going down. <br />
&quot;Absurdity of Officer charged with not reporting non-crime of &quot;Haditha Massacre&quot;. <br />
...

[greensideout]

Why are so many out to hang our Marine Brothers?

Here is Murtha confronted about Haditha accusations---

http://hotair.com/archives/2007/09/18/hot-air-tv-rep-jack-murtha-confronted-about-haditha-accusations/

[OLE SARG]

NOW THERE IS A COWARD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The first thing he did was let the questioner know that he served in Vietnam ala jane fonda kerry!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

murtha is a piece of **** and right up there, or I should say down there, with kerry as being a ****ing TRAITOR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SEMPER FI,

[Big Jim]

HEY OL SARGE...YOU HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD....THAT FVCKEN MURTHA IS A PIECE OF CHIT!!! AND HE'S A CONGRESSMAN!!! WORTHLESS!!!! I'M GLAD HE'S NOT ON OHIO BUT I FEEL SORRY FOR PENNSYLVANIA'S VETS!

:thumbdown :mad:

[Gary Hall]

Not that my opinion matters a whit but I want to be on record as saying a more appropriate charge of abuse could be made against the CG of MCRD San Diego for the ******dly command failures which have...

[greensideout]

Well said Gary! At least those are my thoughts as well.

[Isrowei]

I guess in your day it was cool to disobey orders...? 'Cause that was the Marine Corps I grew up in. We just did our own thing and screw anyone who told us different. Especially if it was a woman......

[greensideout]

What is a Mustang today? Back when, a Mustang became an officer during combat and woud never be promoted beyond Major.

[Isrowei]

Any prior-enlisted Officer is referred to as a Mustang. And most never got beyond Major because of the time involved. I'll hit 20 long before I come in zone for LtCol. However, some stay in and there are plenty of Colonels and above who have enlisted time. Just depends on if you want to give it 30-35 years.

[Gary Hall]

Sir: It was never cool, in my day, (it appears the implication is that these are not my days, and I agree, I despise these days), to disobey orders. Quite the contrary, as taking a look in my SRB will attest. I always apologise up front for the disgraceful accounts of my irresponsibility truthfully documented therein and truly repent. However, I am eternally thankful that I perhaps too late "saw the light". The USMC made a Christian out of me, by beating the feces out of me. Sometimes conditions demand severity when working on "attitude adjustments", and I remember and recommend the long ago USMC methods of leadership & training, they were proven over time & events, just as the latest are being applied and considered. We could talk like that at one time and I miss those days. Political correctness, multiculturalism, conflict resolution (by talking), etc, I say to you, in time will all be proven to be bull feces, or worse, counter productive and harmful to the USMC and to the Country. So we will just have to disagree, until Judgment Day, in my opinion. Only then might we know. Mistakes were made here, but the greater mistakes are much more harmful than the triviality & over reacting I read about in the case of Sgt. Glass. I believe the USMC and the Country are on the wrong road. Marines, I will be away for some weeks on a remote job, but Sgt. Glass, I will be pulling for some body who can come along and make amends for all this stupidity. Kindest personal regards and SF. Gary Hall.

[davblay]

Marines.....we all were trained to follow orders....like it or not! We don't have the luxury of picking the ones WE think are appropriate for any given condition. The Drill Instructors have a...

[Isrowei]

*deep breath*

Gary, I owe you an apology for that rant. In truth, it is always "our" days. Without that mindset, the meaning of Marines, past, present and future loses its power and meaning. The strength of the Corps is and always will be the fact that Marines are a family that span time and generations... and even training practices. I'm sorry I sectioned you out. No matter what we agree or disagree on, that isn't right.

I would be a hypocrite myself if I said I did not believe there was a time and place for "physical" training. I just don't believe the proper place is at boot camp. I believe the focus of boot camp should be the transformation from civilian to basic Marine and that can be accomplished without any undue physically applied force. Also, it's against the rules. Something that, like it or lump it, we must acknowlege and comply with. But the training for a Marine is a career-long endeavor. I'll leave it at that.

I believe that history will record the best warriors are those who know EVERY tool at their disposal and weild leadership tools as a scalpel and not a bludgeon. Indeed, history already records those who accomplished that. Ability to navigate the "political" realms is just as necessary for the modern day warrior as is the ability to enforce discipline in the ranks or call devasting fire upon the enemy. As a military.. and especially as a Marine Corps, we do not operate in a vacuum. In fact, the Marine Corps of all branches has had a long courtship with governmental politics as we continue to justify our existence. We have sold our reputation to America as being the ones with the most Honor and so we are held to a higher standard than anyone else. That means we operate through means that are beyond reproach. We take the "higher" road, so to speak. Is it "political"? Sure, but the American people expect it. In fact, they demand it. We have proven time and time again that we can do things the right way, for the right reasons, and at the right time.

Dave, you spelled this situation out perfectly. Thank you.

[OLE SARG]

All this PC bull**** aside, I wouldn't trade my experience in Boot Camp (1961) for anything in the world. AND yes I got my ass thumped a few times but I did not go whining to the brass!!!!
I think we all have our pros and cons on this subject and I respect that. I do feel that the training aspect can go hand in hand with the punishment (physical training) aspect. My Marine Corps training made me a tougher and better man and I hold all those values dear.
Due to my working out still at age 66 and my love of guns, I am always accused of being a Marine (still have my high and tight), which makes me proud.

SEMPER FI,