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thedrifter
04-04-03, 11:12 AM
US Marine commander relieved of post in Iraq

SOUTH EAST OF BAGHDAD (AFP) - A US commander who was leading a push by Marines through southern Iraq (news - web sites) towards Baghdad was relieved of his post for an undisclosed reason, a US military spokesman told AFP.


No reason had been given for the decision to relieve Colonel Joe Dowdy, commander of the Marines First Regimental Combat Team, Public Affairs Officer Steven Schweitzer said on Friday.


"He was responsible for the regiment until three hours ago," Schweitzer said.


Another senior officer, who declined to be named, said a replacement for Dowdy had been announced and that a helicopter had arrived late Friday with orders to ferry Dowdy back to Kuwait.


Dowdy was in command of 5,000 men and women and had led the regiment's advance through southern and central Iraq and on to some 130 kilometres (80 miles) from Baghdad earlier Friday.


Sempers,

Roger

SheWolf
04-04-03, 11:19 AM
that doesn't sound good.......



[QUOTE]Originally posted by thedrifter
[B]US Marine commander relieved of post in Iraq

SOUTH EAST OF BAGHDAD (AFP) - A US commander who was leading a push by Marines through southern Iraq (news - web sites) towards Baghdad was relieved of his post for an undisclosed reason, a US military spokesman told AFP.


No reason had been given for the decision to relieve Colonel Joe Dowdy, commander of the Marines First Regimental Combat Team, Public Affairs Officer Steven Schweitzer said on Friday.


"He was responsible for the regiment until three hours ago," Schweitzer said.


Another senior officer, who declined to be named, said a replacement for Dowdy had been announced and that a helicopter had arrived late Friday with orders to ferry Dowdy back to Kuwait.


Dowdy was in command of 5,000 men and women and had led the regiment's advance through southern and central Iraq and on to some 130 kilometres (80 miles) from Baghdad earlier Friday.


Sempers,

:no:

GunnerMike
04-04-03, 11:46 AM
I think his next fitrep might be less than advantagous to advancement. Perhaps it is only in regards to an investigation that will exonerate the Col. of any remarks going to the left.

Sparrowhawk
04-04-03, 12:29 PM
Been wondering why the 5th Regiment has been slow in moving up?

Don't know if it's his call or someone else, just been in the back of my mind.

Don't want to look like he's to blame, but just wondering on their movement.

Knowing Marines, if he's to blame it doesn't take long for the grunts word to get out.


Probably email a grunt in the 5th and find out what really happened? LOL

MillRatUSMC
04-04-03, 02:03 PM
What in hades are we talking about here?
Or more to the point which unit ot Regiment.
Marines First Regimental Combat Team could translate to 1st Marines or the First Marine Regiment.
It could also translate to an MEU or would that be a MEF.
No an MEF would be a Division.
His rank says it was a MEU or the 1st Marines.
anything else such as the 1st Bn 5th Marines would have a Lt. Colonel in command, so we're really talking 1st Marines here.
Now, the question might be asked.
By who order was he relieved.
Was it a change of command because the Colonel had orders to some other place or command.
Regardless , why change or relief a man while we're driving to finish an enemy.
What does this do to morale of the troops under his command.
I know a few in that Regiment.
Besides I was a member of that Regiment in 1967.

Semper Fidelis
Ricardo

firstsgtmike
04-04-03, 04:34 PM
I'm as interested in this as everyone else is.

Following milrats's reasoning, the best answer is that LtCol Dowdy was reassigned following his promotion to Full Bird.

However, I doubt it. So I remain curious.

greensideout
04-04-03, 05:49 PM
They may have just pulled him back to rotate another favorite son in to get some combat leadership time.

It will be interesting to see!

greybeard
04-04-03, 07:55 PM
I find it hard to believe a normal change of command would take place at this time, even if it were already scheduled months before. Perhaps in the public's view, or the view in DoD, the Marine advance was not as fast as hoped? They didn't have 150 miles of open desert to travel thru virtually unopposed, as the 3rd ID did. Not to take anything from the 3rd ID, just stating facts. Interesting turn of events for sure.

Sixguns
04-04-03, 08:03 PM
I was told of instances in Desert Storm when commanders were sent to the rear and other "replacement" commanders were sent to units forward deployed. Supposedly this gave many more officers "command time," combat experience, special comments in FitReps for command in combat, and all the awards and decorations that went along with it. Not sure if this is at all true or not. I hope this isn't the case.

Also hope it was not for moving "too slow," or any other command decision he made to provide safety and security for his unit rather than speed to Baghdad.

SF,

greensideout
04-04-03, 08:24 PM
Sixguns,

The Marine Corps rotated enlisted and officers in and out of Viet Nam in the early days to get combat experience. The Army may have too.

The practice has some merit if used correctly I believe.

Semper FI

Sixguns
04-04-03, 08:59 PM
on some levels. Training? Not too sure. I don't think disrupting unit morale or leadership in the middle of a campaign is a wise idea, but who am I. If it was to pad someone's OQR or SRB with info to enhance a career, gain promotion or elevate an individual above his peers it just seems wrong. Orders are orders. If you were lucky enough to be in command when the first shot was fired, I should not be jealous or feel as if I need to get equal opportunity. It's not my fault that the Corps had placed me somewhere else. Too bad the ribbons and medals look good in photos sent to selection boards and that too many folks don't have all the same. It should not be held agains the individual that he did not get the orders or chance to be there. I think boards give to much weight to thoe that were there.

SF,

thedrifter
04-04-03, 10:29 PM
WASHINGTON - U.S. military officials have taken the unusual step of removing a Marine unit's commander in the midst of the fighting in Iraq (news - web sites).


Col. Joe W. Dowdy was removed as commander of the 1st Marine Regiment, one of the Marine units approaching Baghdad from the southeast. The unit has about 5,000 troops.


Military officials confirmed Dowdy had been removed but refused to comment on the reason.


Dowdy, a native of Little Rock, Ark., was commissioned as a second lieutenant after graduating from the University of Mississippi in 1979. Before his command of the regiment, he was an assistant chief of staff of the 1st Marine Expeditionary Force.


The 1st Marine Regiment is part of the 1st Marine Division, based at Camp Pendleton, Calif.


Sempers,

Roger

top1371
04-04-03, 11:13 PM
Key Marine commander is relieved <br />
http://www.msnbc.com/news/895732.asp?0cl=c3 <br />
No explanation given for removal <br />
<br />
By Thomas E. Ricks <br />
THE WASHINGTON POST <br />
<br />
April 5 — The Marine Corps relieved...

Sparrowhawk
04-05-03, 12:38 AM
Gosh darn, the Corps hasn't changed... <br />
<br />
Sempers <br />
<br />
Cook

greybeard
04-05-03, 01:26 AM
Sounds like Gen Mattis wanted to beat the Army into Baghdad.

greybeard
04-05-03, 01:34 AM
Sounds like Gen Mattis wanted to beat the Army into Baghdad.

Sparrowhawk
04-05-03, 02:16 AM
It does seem like that is what was happening.

The General wanted his full unit with him, he'll probably take the second airport.

Hey, the Army was riding on tanks, we're walking...LOL

greybeard
04-05-03, 02:23 AM
I don't know about walkin, but the Marines had to first secure the oilfields, Umm Kasar, & pretty well had to fight their way all the way up.

MillRatUSMC
04-05-03, 02:44 AM
It's troubling to see ego's being the reason why this officer was relieved of his command.
The 1st Marine were assigned security of the rear.
The were conducting humanitarian missions, such as diliverying of a baby.
Maybe that tick off General Mattis.
I believe that elements of the 1st Marines conducted that attack to draw the Iraqi attention away while they were rescuing PFC Jessica Lynch US Army.
I heard a company mentioned but I won't placed that info here.
Then why am I surprised that ego's are behind this.
I seen it before in the military and out in the citizen world.
SAD

Semper Fidelis
Ricardo

PS My battalion commander Lt. Col. Archie Van Winkle USMC MOH recipent as a SSGT. in Korea got relived in Vietnam, because our supply officer forgot or neglected to see that some of our supplies got water-proofed.
They relieved the commanding officer not the junior officer.
At that time we thought it was ego's of officers envious of his MOH

MillRatUSMC
04-05-03, 02:47 AM
Several weeks later Lt. Col. Archie Van Winkle took over 1/1st Marines.
A good man will not stay down.

Semper Fidelis
Ricardo

Sparrowhawk
04-05-03, 08:54 AM
took command last summer of the 1st Marine Regiment, which is based at Camp Pendleton, Calif. Including units attached to the regiment for combat, he had command of more than 6,000 troops, according to GlobalSecurity.org.

http://media.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/images/I32119-2003Apr04L

Dowdy has been removed as commander of the 1st Marine Regiment

MillRatUSMC
04-05-03, 10:14 PM
Been hashing this over and over...regardless the reason...the timing is terrible.
If I was active I would hold on my thoughts on this matter.
But I'm no longer active...so here's my thoughts, Colonel Joe W. Dowdy was appointed as Regimental Commander in the 1st Marine Division led by the present CMC General Hagee.
So he inherited Colonel Dowdy and the other two Regimental Commander.
Before Iragi Freedom was the time for a change.
Not in the late stages of this war.
The relief of command is being reported in the media and it not the best publicity for the Marine Corps
IMHO
During Desert Storm, there was an Army divison commander, who was old thinking commander because he thought processes were geared to fighting in the European theather against the Russkies.
Making him very cautious.
So he was holding up the left hook while the Marine Corps was driving almost to Basra in Iraq.
Yet he wasn't relieved of command.
He went on to higher rank till he retired.
Someone had the wisdom, that it wouldn't be in the best interest of the US Army.
Maybe someone in the Marine Corps should have the wisdom that relieving Col Dowdy wouldn't be in the best interest of the Marine Corps
The CMC should check on the reason why Col Joe W. Dowdy was relieved of his command.
Or the CMC should appoint a panel.
So it would explain the reason for the best interest of the Marine Corps

Semper Fidelis

PS I might be all wet...but my interest has always been the Corps

SheWolf
04-06-03, 11:47 AM
but wouldn't it be more appropriate to say "change of command" versus "relieved of command",,,

the relieved statement leads me to believe that the person involved was to be reprimanded heavily,,, vs Changd of Command that it was an administrative move,,,


just wondering

top1371
04-06-03, 12:23 PM
I agree with SheWolf - relieved is not a change of comamnd....

It is hard to believe that the 'reason' has not leaked yet. Is it our business? Heck yeah! I want to know what he was doing to my Marines and my Corps

kinda off topic.... but talking about making things public.... I remeber once, having a Bn Co who got a letter of reprimand, no one knew (outside of the Co and CG..).... but one morning the Bn SgtMaj gave him a copy of the Stars and Stripes... it was in there! Man he was ****ed.... the whole world knew..... bad part of it was that we were an engineer battalion and had a squad of grunts attached to us... one of the grunts threw CS too close to the boundry of the central trainig area and the gas drifted and gassed some civialian road workers..... wasnt even the Co's fault that they didnt listen and it was only within a few ft of the allowed area...... needless to say... he was done....

Semper Fi,

Top

greybeard
04-06-03, 12:26 PM
The Corps being the small cohesive unit that it is, I suspect CMC was notified of the change early on, perhaps before it happened.
You are right Milrat, about holding your tongue if you were on active duty. I believe the regs concerning criticism of the chain of command even apply to retirees drawing retirement pay. I have it somewhere close. I'll try to find it right quick.

greybeard
04-06-03, 12:39 PM
Well, I couldn't find the part I was looking for. Actually, this is directed at commissioned officers. But I suppose it would be possible for an inactive reservists to be called back just to be courtmartialed for things said in public. Be pretty nit pickin tho.

Punitive Articles of the UCMJ

Article 88—Contempt toward officials

Text:

“Any commissioned officer who uses contemptuous words against the President, the Vice President, Congress, the Secretary of Defense, the Secretary of a military department, the Secretary of Transportation, or the Governor or legislature of any State, Territory, Commonwealth, or possession in which he is on duty or present shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.”

SheWolf
04-06-03, 12:43 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by top1371
[B]I agree with SheWolf - relieved is not a change of comamnd....

kinda off topic.... but talking about making things public....

thanks Grey,,,,

I lost two 1stSgt's for screwing (literally) the troops...

first one was in Germany,, he had slept with quite a few PFC's in the barracks,,, he had 17 years in,, excellent service record, he was married to an officer.......... they busted him to E1 and made him stay in the Group because when they busted him he tried to take the Co. Commander and some of the Warrant Officers with him,,,,,,,,,,,

2nd one was in Hawaii,,, 18 years in,, they busted him to E4,, and then he retired,, but it ****ed me off, of course he got to retire at highest rank held,, thought that stunk,,,, but he did bring some excitement,, one of the clerks he was messing with was married to an E7 Infantry,,,, he showed up at the orderly room and threw some desks around,,,,,

SheWolf
04-06-03, 12:45 PM
[2nd one was in Hawaii,,, 18 years in,, they busted him to E4,, and then he retired,, but it ****ed me off, of course he got to retire at highest rank held,, thought that stunk,,,, but he did bring some excitement,, one of the clerks he was messing with was married to an E7 Infantry,,,, he showed up at the orderly room and threw some desks around,,,,, [/B][/QUOTE]

oh, meant to say that he had 20 years in,, not 18,,, it was a long time ago

MillRatUSMC
04-06-03, 12:51 PM
These words... contemptuous words could be interrupt in different ways. <br />
Would it be comtemptous for an officers voicing concern about a war plan. <br />
Early in this war an Army General did that. <br />
Could...

MillRatUSMC
04-06-03, 12:54 PM
Make that Colonel Joe W. Dowdy...I reduced his rank...the poor man has suffered more without my reduction of his rank...

Semper Fidelis
Ricardo embrassed as hades

greybeard
04-06-03, 01:21 PM
I hate to be the bearer of bad news-(mods delete if you think it prudent) <br />
<br />
'Too-slow' Marine Commander Relieved <br />
NewsMax.com <br />
Sunday, April 6, 2003 <br />
&quot;I'm afraid this could mean more casualties,&quot;...

lurchenstein
04-06-03, 01:35 PM
Toolan is considered a “close-with-and engage-the-enemy" type of commander who had helped draft the division's battle plan and is a Mattis confidante.

This is disheartening (must be a helluva blow to his Marines).
The "confidante" business, if not a media tweak, surely smells of cronyism. (Hope it's foolishness on my part.) I'm sure these Marines will carry on with the mission; however, with a sort of "common casualty".

GunnerMike
04-06-03, 02:05 PM
Originally posted by greybeard
The Corps being the small cohesive unit that it is, I suspect CMC was notified of the change early on, perhaps before it happened.
You are right Milrat, about holding your tongue if you were on active duty. I believe the regs concerning criticism of the chain of command even apply to retirees drawing retirement pay. I have it somewhere close. I'll try to find it right quick.

If criticism by retirees of the command structure was not permissable, LtCol David Hackworth would have been hammered long ago. Hack gives the Pentagon and the White House, no matter who is in residence, a fit.

MillRatUSMC
04-06-03, 03:10 PM
A little more on the relieving of my Bn Commander Lt. Col Archie Van Winkle.
Either early October or late September of 1967, we recieved an order to move to Quan Tri.
It was monsoon season and everything got wet and ruined because of the lack of waterproofing.
We were an operation when our Bn Commander got relieved of command.
On returning to the base camp and entering the wire there was an officer awaiting our return.
The next thing we hear "All the company commanders, officers and NCO's report to the Bn Commander tent.
We all gather in front of our Bn Commander's tent.
He came out and start yelling "YOU PEOPLE ARE DIRTY!DIRTY!"
From now on I want every man in this Bn to carry shoe polish and brasso out in the field and on returning I never again want to see you dirty!
Well, we all just looked at each other, mentally saying "He got to be kidding!" or he doesn't pocess a clue on the enemy.
They don't give you time to stand in one spot.
I must admit that we were dirty and nasty looking, but our weapons were as clean as possible.
We sure weren't picture poster Marines.
We looked alike Cook picture in Vietnam.
His boot show a lot of wear and his hair isn't high and tight.
But that how we lived over there day to day.
I was two months from finishing my tour in Vietnam.
After returning, a few months later, I hear that Bn Commander had been killed in Vietnam.
Sad...

Semper Fidelis
Ricardo

greybeard
04-06-03, 03:46 PM
Originally posted by GunnerMike


If criticism by retirees of the command structure was not permissable, LtCol David Hackworth would have been hammered long ago. Hack gives the Pentagon and the White House, no matter who is in residence, a fit.


Been following me around? :D
The UCMJ Art 88 came from a forum I belong to, where LtCol Hackworth's comments were being 'discussed', hence my ability to lay my hands on it so quickly. In particular, some of his criticism of SecDef Rumsfield.

Croaker
04-07-03, 01:22 AM
This doesn't surprise me at all. I had a conversation with then, Major Mattis in '87 I recall. I was the enlisted half of the most successful Officer Selection Team in the 12th MCD. For the previous 3 years we had been under District out of T.I. Things changed and we came under the command of RSS Portland, then headed by Major Mattis. He came down to Corvallis, OR to check out what we had going. I was putting together application packages and he asked what I was doing. I told him I was putting together packages to make phase line. His response, "Good, do your ****ing job or I'll kill you" I'm no kid, and as an 0369 I have a pretty thick skin but his comment when he didn't know **** all about me or what I was doing really didn't make me all warm and fuzzy. We want aggressive leaders with the fire in their eyes, but we also want to believe we are more than just brick used to build their careers. If there was a tactical reason to get to Bahgdad before the 3rd ID and Col. Dowdy wasn't cutting it that's ok. If it was to stroke some ego then it's not acceptable.
Croaker