thedrifter
10-21-07, 07:18 AM
Marines contemplate move from Anbar to Afghanistan
By: MARK WALKER - Staff Writer
CAMP PENDLETON ---- As Pentagon planners wrestle with a proposal that the Marine Corps take the lead in Afghanistan and leave Iraq largely in the hands of the Army, troops at Camp Pendleton say the idea makes sense.
Several officers and enlisted men spoke to the North County Times last week about the proposal on the condition their names not be used, saying they didn't want to run afoul of their commanders.
"People are talking it about it all the time," a lieutenant colonel said of the idea that the Marines be shifted to a new mission. "We go in, we kick ass and we turn it over to the Army. We're not supposed to be a long-term occupying force."
A base master sergeant said the idea recently floated by Marine Corps Commandant James Conway is a "hot topic" in staff sessions.
"People are saying it makes sense," the sergeant said. "We're not supposed to be in Iraq as a security force. We're an expeditionary fighting force that trains for combat, not civil affairs."
Conway has said that he made the proposal because security is improving in Iraq. He said his troops should be serving in a quick-reaction combat role, rather than as an occupying force bogged down by civil affairs work.
Army leaders have declined to comment on Conway's suggestion, which will ultimately be decided by the White House and by Defense Secretary Robert Gates.
On Thursday, Gates threw cold water on the idea.
"I would say if that if it happens, it'll be long after I'm secretary of defense," he told reporters during a news conference in Washington.
'Shocked by progress'
The improvements cited by Conway are backed up by recent figures that show a drop in the number of U.S. military deaths in Iraq and a reduction in the overall number of attacks throughout the Anbar region, where 25,000 Marines are now stationed.
Sixty-five troops died in September, the lowest monthly figure in a year. Through mid-Friday, 26 U.S. service members died in fighting throughout Iraq, putting October on a pace for the lowest total since early 2006.
The security improvement was underscored in an e-mail exchange last week with an Oceanside attorney serving a third tour of duty in Anbar.
Lt. Col. David Bellon, commander of the 3rd Battalion, 23rd Marines, said the difference is almost indescribable when compared with his previous deployments.
"I am a hard-core realist as a result of my two-plus years and various experiences in Iraq," he wrote. "However, I am truly shocked by the progress that has been made here. I just did not know that I would ever experience the kind of cooperation, progress and atmospherics that we are dealing with here on a daily basis."
Last year, Lt. Gen. James Mattis, commander of Camp Pendleton's I Marine Expeditionary Force, said that increasing cooperation with Sunni sheiks in Anbar was generating major successes in the fight against insurgents and al-Qaida.
Some 11,000 Camp Pendleton Marines and sailors are scheduled to go back to Anbar beginning at year's end. Most are slated to be there seven months; hundreds of headquarters staffers will stay a year or longer.
What they will find, according to Bellon, will be far different from the dangers that confronted troops in cities such as Ramadi and Fallujah two and three years ago, and the city of Haditha where Bellon is now stationed.
"There is no doubt in my mind that we are transitioning the Iraqis to 'win' and not just to 'leave,' " Bellon wrote. "It is a shame that average Americans cannot see the end result of four years of bloodying fighting in one of the last areas of Anbar to achieve security. It would soften even the hardest critic."
The debate
For several months, military leaders and their bosses in the Pentagon have been talking about the stresses on the Army and Marine Corps and how much each branch has sacrificed in planning and development for future conflicts in order to fight the Iraqi insurgency.
Today, the Marines account for 25,000 of the 160,000 U.S. troops in Iraq, but only 300 of the 26,000 troops in Afghanistan. The Taliban remain elusive in the latter country, where its fighters strike quickly and then retreat into the mountains, military officials say.
For the Marine Corps, the argument about where its troops are most needed centers on how to get back to its role as a quick-reaction force, stationed aboard ships and at bases around the world. Camp Pendleton's 11th, 13th and 15th Marine Expeditionary Units, each numbering about 2,200 troops, comprise three of those units.
The expeditionary units have found themselves in Iraq over the last four years, and Conway says he's increasingly worried that the heavy equipment ---- the trucks and armored personnel carriers needed to support that mission ---- are taking away from the Corps' ability to stay agile.
"I'm a little bit concerned about us keeping our expeditionary flavor," the commandant said during a speech in Washington last week. "We are much heavier than ever before."
Conway said al-Qaida forces have been largely beaten in Anbar, the sprawling western Iraqi province that has experienced the most combat outside of Baghdad. However, he said, the group hasn't been eliminated.
"Are they crippled? Yeah," he said. "Are they still dangerous? Absolutely."
The academic view
John Pike, a respected military observer and founder of GlobalSecurity.org in Washington, said he doubts whether the Pentagon will adopt Conway's proposal.
"It would seem to me he is trying to stake the future of the Marine Corps on it," Pike said during a telephone interview last week. "But it's been a very long time since the Marine Corps and Army fought separate wars."
Pike said it might make more sense for the Marine Corps to propose that one of its 5,000-troop regimental combat teams move into the Army rotational schedule into Afghanistan.
However, he said, "putting the Marine Corps in the lead role there indefinitely, after bugging out of Iraq? I just don't see how that is going to happen. But who the hell knows what Gates is thinking."
Colin Kahl, a professor of security studies at Washington's Georgetown University who has written extensively on Iraq and served as an adviser to the Defense Department, said the notion of the Marines taking control in Afghanistan runs contrary to the "jointness" doctrine the military has operated under in recent years.
"This would take a step in the opposite direction, even though in some ways it could make sense," he said during a telephone interview.
If it does happen, Kahl said, the Marine Corps would find itself having many of the same civil affairs responsibilities it has in Iraq ---- with far fewer troops trained for such jobs compared with the Army.
"The Marines could not do Afghanistan all by themselves," he said. "They would still require some Army and Air Force assets."
'Find the bad guys'
The Marines and many of its commanders in Iraq were a large part of the force that invaded Afghanistan after the terrorist attacks in 2001, a factor fueling Conway's proposal.
The most recent edition of the Marine Corps Times, a weekly paper dedicated to coverage of the Marines, is calling on Gates to reject the notion that Conway's idea represents a power grab. The newspaper says he and the Joint Chiefs of Staff should study the idea with an open mind.
A lieutenant colonel at Camp Pendleton said that the fighting in Afghanistan amounts to more of a counterinsurgency battle than Anbar now presents and ideally suits what Marines are trained to do.
"It's a question of tactics," he said of the fight in Afghanistan, adding that Army commanders in Iraq too often methodically spend days planning and studying the potential political fallout of a combat operation.
"The Marine Corps doesn't do that as much. You find out where a pocket of Taliban are and you go in and kill them."
Another lieutenant colonel headed back to Iraq later this year said the Marines would "never leave the Army hanging" in Iraq.
"We are there until we are done. Afghanistan wouldn't be a different challenge ---- we've been there, done that and know we can do it again."
Contact staff writer Mark Walker at (760) 740-3529 or mlwalker@nctimes.com.
Ellie
By: MARK WALKER - Staff Writer
CAMP PENDLETON ---- As Pentagon planners wrestle with a proposal that the Marine Corps take the lead in Afghanistan and leave Iraq largely in the hands of the Army, troops at Camp Pendleton say the idea makes sense.
Several officers and enlisted men spoke to the North County Times last week about the proposal on the condition their names not be used, saying they didn't want to run afoul of their commanders.
"People are talking it about it all the time," a lieutenant colonel said of the idea that the Marines be shifted to a new mission. "We go in, we kick ass and we turn it over to the Army. We're not supposed to be a long-term occupying force."
A base master sergeant said the idea recently floated by Marine Corps Commandant James Conway is a "hot topic" in staff sessions.
"People are saying it makes sense," the sergeant said. "We're not supposed to be in Iraq as a security force. We're an expeditionary fighting force that trains for combat, not civil affairs."
Conway has said that he made the proposal because security is improving in Iraq. He said his troops should be serving in a quick-reaction combat role, rather than as an occupying force bogged down by civil affairs work.
Army leaders have declined to comment on Conway's suggestion, which will ultimately be decided by the White House and by Defense Secretary Robert Gates.
On Thursday, Gates threw cold water on the idea.
"I would say if that if it happens, it'll be long after I'm secretary of defense," he told reporters during a news conference in Washington.
'Shocked by progress'
The improvements cited by Conway are backed up by recent figures that show a drop in the number of U.S. military deaths in Iraq and a reduction in the overall number of attacks throughout the Anbar region, where 25,000 Marines are now stationed.
Sixty-five troops died in September, the lowest monthly figure in a year. Through mid-Friday, 26 U.S. service members died in fighting throughout Iraq, putting October on a pace for the lowest total since early 2006.
The security improvement was underscored in an e-mail exchange last week with an Oceanside attorney serving a third tour of duty in Anbar.
Lt. Col. David Bellon, commander of the 3rd Battalion, 23rd Marines, said the difference is almost indescribable when compared with his previous deployments.
"I am a hard-core realist as a result of my two-plus years and various experiences in Iraq," he wrote. "However, I am truly shocked by the progress that has been made here. I just did not know that I would ever experience the kind of cooperation, progress and atmospherics that we are dealing with here on a daily basis."
Last year, Lt. Gen. James Mattis, commander of Camp Pendleton's I Marine Expeditionary Force, said that increasing cooperation with Sunni sheiks in Anbar was generating major successes in the fight against insurgents and al-Qaida.
Some 11,000 Camp Pendleton Marines and sailors are scheduled to go back to Anbar beginning at year's end. Most are slated to be there seven months; hundreds of headquarters staffers will stay a year or longer.
What they will find, according to Bellon, will be far different from the dangers that confronted troops in cities such as Ramadi and Fallujah two and three years ago, and the city of Haditha where Bellon is now stationed.
"There is no doubt in my mind that we are transitioning the Iraqis to 'win' and not just to 'leave,' " Bellon wrote. "It is a shame that average Americans cannot see the end result of four years of bloodying fighting in one of the last areas of Anbar to achieve security. It would soften even the hardest critic."
The debate
For several months, military leaders and their bosses in the Pentagon have been talking about the stresses on the Army and Marine Corps and how much each branch has sacrificed in planning and development for future conflicts in order to fight the Iraqi insurgency.
Today, the Marines account for 25,000 of the 160,000 U.S. troops in Iraq, but only 300 of the 26,000 troops in Afghanistan. The Taliban remain elusive in the latter country, where its fighters strike quickly and then retreat into the mountains, military officials say.
For the Marine Corps, the argument about where its troops are most needed centers on how to get back to its role as a quick-reaction force, stationed aboard ships and at bases around the world. Camp Pendleton's 11th, 13th and 15th Marine Expeditionary Units, each numbering about 2,200 troops, comprise three of those units.
The expeditionary units have found themselves in Iraq over the last four years, and Conway says he's increasingly worried that the heavy equipment ---- the trucks and armored personnel carriers needed to support that mission ---- are taking away from the Corps' ability to stay agile.
"I'm a little bit concerned about us keeping our expeditionary flavor," the commandant said during a speech in Washington last week. "We are much heavier than ever before."
Conway said al-Qaida forces have been largely beaten in Anbar, the sprawling western Iraqi province that has experienced the most combat outside of Baghdad. However, he said, the group hasn't been eliminated.
"Are they crippled? Yeah," he said. "Are they still dangerous? Absolutely."
The academic view
John Pike, a respected military observer and founder of GlobalSecurity.org in Washington, said he doubts whether the Pentagon will adopt Conway's proposal.
"It would seem to me he is trying to stake the future of the Marine Corps on it," Pike said during a telephone interview last week. "But it's been a very long time since the Marine Corps and Army fought separate wars."
Pike said it might make more sense for the Marine Corps to propose that one of its 5,000-troop regimental combat teams move into the Army rotational schedule into Afghanistan.
However, he said, "putting the Marine Corps in the lead role there indefinitely, after bugging out of Iraq? I just don't see how that is going to happen. But who the hell knows what Gates is thinking."
Colin Kahl, a professor of security studies at Washington's Georgetown University who has written extensively on Iraq and served as an adviser to the Defense Department, said the notion of the Marines taking control in Afghanistan runs contrary to the "jointness" doctrine the military has operated under in recent years.
"This would take a step in the opposite direction, even though in some ways it could make sense," he said during a telephone interview.
If it does happen, Kahl said, the Marine Corps would find itself having many of the same civil affairs responsibilities it has in Iraq ---- with far fewer troops trained for such jobs compared with the Army.
"The Marines could not do Afghanistan all by themselves," he said. "They would still require some Army and Air Force assets."
'Find the bad guys'
The Marines and many of its commanders in Iraq were a large part of the force that invaded Afghanistan after the terrorist attacks in 2001, a factor fueling Conway's proposal.
The most recent edition of the Marine Corps Times, a weekly paper dedicated to coverage of the Marines, is calling on Gates to reject the notion that Conway's idea represents a power grab. The newspaper says he and the Joint Chiefs of Staff should study the idea with an open mind.
A lieutenant colonel at Camp Pendleton said that the fighting in Afghanistan amounts to more of a counterinsurgency battle than Anbar now presents and ideally suits what Marines are trained to do.
"It's a question of tactics," he said of the fight in Afghanistan, adding that Army commanders in Iraq too often methodically spend days planning and studying the potential political fallout of a combat operation.
"The Marine Corps doesn't do that as much. You find out where a pocket of Taliban are and you go in and kill them."
Another lieutenant colonel headed back to Iraq later this year said the Marines would "never leave the Army hanging" in Iraq.
"We are there until we are done. Afghanistan wouldn't be a different challenge ---- we've been there, done that and know we can do it again."
Contact staff writer Mark Walker at (760) 740-3529 or mlwalker@nctimes.com.
Ellie