Advice for qualifying expert on rifle range

[GIJOE0341]

I ship out to boot camp May 19, 2008. I come from a shooting backround and have hunted all my life. I have experience with long range shooting (up to 600 yards with a scope). What is the best advice you can give to help someone qualify expert on the rifle range? If you shoot once and dont qualify expert can you shoot again and get a higher score? Are there any exercises to prepare me for the rifle range? Should i forget everything i know not fire a weapon until bootcamp and let the Marines reteach me?

[LeonardLawrence]

GIJOE,

Great question. Here are my thoughts.

Keep shooting if you like. If you follow the fundamentals of sight alignment, picture and breathing you are good to go.

One shot to shoot, if you go unqulaified, you get a second chance..and you wear marksman badge all year, no matter the score.

Iron sights versus a scope, two different animals with similar basic. If you go in with the attitude that you dont know it all...and that 220+years of experience might be worth something...you will be fine. Recruits *(and Marines) get into trouble when they try to outsmart the weapon or fail to believe that fundamentals..such as a good postion....work...

Good luck!

[GIJOE0341]

Thanks LeonardLawrence looking forward to earning my place in the brotherhood no matter what my rifle qualification

[LeonardLawrence]

From experience....a year of wearing the "Pizza Box" as a marksman is enough! It impresses the ladies who don't know better, but when you have to wear it for work.....it is another story.

I tell people that there are those that can shoot accurately and then there are those that provide suprresive fire :p

Strive to be the best!

[Covey_Rider]

All you have to do is listen to your PMI. They will do everything in their power to help you shoot expert. The only other piece of advice that I can pass on that hasn't been covered is RELAX. A lot of guys get really nervous on qual day and end up shooting horrible. I know because I did it...our senior told us to relax and I didn't. I will say that I still shot expert...but barely. I shot a 221. I looked back through my data book after the range to find that I'd been shooting in the high 230's and up into the 240's all week long. So like I said, just relax and you'll do fine.

[Phantom Blooper]

The only other piece of advice that I can pass on that hasn't been covered is RELAX.

And don't eat any bananas the night before or for breakfast! :banana:

[Covey_Rider]

And don't eat any bananas the night before or for breakfast! :banana:

LMAO...literately...I can't stop laughing. I don't even know what to say.

[davblay]

LMAO...literately...I can't stop laughing. I don't even know what to say.

Covey, you already said it all!

[DIBLO7]

Listen to your PMI! Also, the range coaches at boot camp aren't worth crap. Not that they are not good at what their doing, but just the huge number of recruits that they are dealing with does not allow them the time to spend more than a few seconds with an individual recruit. That being said you really need to pay attention on how to move your sights around at the different yard lines. That is your money. If your pointing at black and your not hitting black, MOVE YOUR SIGHTS.

However, nomatter how your sights are set if you don't have the fundamentals down your going to suck. Bone support, breathing and trigger control are paramount.

[rvillac2]

I tell people that there are those that can shoot accurately and then there are those that provide suprresive fire


I don't care who you are, that's funny right there.

[killerinstinct]

ive always come up with some kind of saying so you can anticipate your respiratory pause and have point of aim and it's always best to rely on this since you are goign to see your muzzle move as you breathe..

basically dont try to fight the weapon controlling it holding it steady if you get it to a point where you are completely relaxed and at the pause it shouuld fall right in your sight.

hope that makes sense i dont really proof read too much.

[Marine84]

And don't eat any bananas the night before or for breakfast! :banana:

You still stuck on that whole banana debocle aren't ya? Covey - I told you so...............you gave some of these guys ammo - HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

[bigalholmes165]

I ship out to boot camp May 19, 2008. I come from a shooting backround and have hunted all my life. I have experience with long range shooting (up to 600 yards with a scope). What is the best advice you can give to help someone qualify expert on the rifle range? If you shoot once and dont qualify expert can you shoot again and get a higher score? Are there any exercises to prepare me for the rifle range? Should i forget everything i know not fire a weapon until bootcamp and let the Marines reteach me?

Hit the center of the target, and don't make them wave any Maggie's Drawers.

[zackmerc]

Worrying about qualifying expert? Usually, the worst scores are rednecks that have been shooting hunting rifles all their life. The best scores are also rednecks who have been shooting all their life. However, most of the rednecks do poorly and get mostly marksman. The best shooters are recruites that have never really engaged in shooting but have some experience in it. They are the ones that get expert. I had no shooting experience prior to boot camp and I got sharpshooter. I scored expert on the pre-qualification but got the sharpshooter on qual day. It was only 3 points away!!! We had a few unks and guess what? They were rednecks from Texas and Arkansas! And guess what again, our high shooter was a redneck from Arkansas!

[Echo_Four_Bravo]

You do know that it is somewhat offensive to call people rednecks, right?

[GIJOE0341]

LOL...i never said i was a redneck...but you guessed it and no i dont take i as an insult...kinda like a badge of backwoods honor

[GIJOE0341]

Also im not your typical redneck. I agree that most rednecks are some bad shots when it comes to precision rifle shooting, most of this resulting from years of wing shooting causing them to have the worst trigger control in the world. I don't wing shoot. My talents are focused strictly on precision rifle shooting. You can bet your arse that there isnt anybody better than a redneck to cover you in a firefight though. This i believe relates to reflex shooting under pressure, something that we rednecks/hillbillies/stump jumpers know how to do. I have a shooting buddy whose father teaches marine reserves shooting with night vision and stuff like that and is a VERY VERY good shot. Should i have him teach me to shoot the AR-15 before i attend bootcamp(theirs is an exact replica of the marine A-2) or just leave it alone?

[Echo_Four_Bravo]

You can have him teach you if you want- but I promise you that he can't even begin to teach you what the PMI at boot camp will teach you. The Marine Corps takes marksmanship very seriously, and over the last (almost) 232 years they've figured out how to teach people to hit what they aim at.

If anyone fails to qualify as an expert, it is because they failed to do as they were instructed. Of course, the Sharpshooters and Marksmen are also better than just about anyone you'll come across. They just didn't take enough of what they were taught and apply it on the range.

As for a firefight, I'll take a city boy Marine over any country boy in the world- unless that country boy happens to be a Marine as well. Shooting birds and deer isn't the same as shooting at people- especially since the people tend to shoot back.

[GIJOE0341]

Very true…I think I will just forget everything I know and go in as a clean slate. It will be easier that way. As for the city marine vs. country boy thing I have to agree with you there but I was referring to a country boy marine. I wouldn’t trust most of these jokers with a firework much less an M-16 before they went through basic training. (can you believe that in a school of 200 there were more than 3 accidental shootings in the 3 years I was there)

[tony101365]

Get your sight correctly aim breath and slowly squeeze the triger remember one shot one kill. Relax and listen to your PMI. Score well and make your DI-s happy. It is not hard listen and apply what you learn and you get a week to learn your rifle remember they are many rifles but that one is your rifle and you are the defenders of your country. You and your rifle are one the most dangerous man on earth a Marine and his rifle. Semper Fi Mack

[GIJOE0341]

Thats some motivating stuff right there. Thanks

[redboxercasino]

Hey Guys None Of My Business But ,556 Ammo Doesn't Compare To 308 Ammo,i Own An M4,and A Modified M14,accuracy Really Comes Into Play When Its Either Too Hot Or To Cold,what Time Of Day It Is,what The Windage Is.i'm What You'ld Call A Rookie Marine,but I Cam Take My M14 And Hit A Target At 1720meters,would That Qualify Me As An Expert,or Just Pretty Damn Good?

[Echo_Four_Bravo]

Depends on what optics you have on the gun and how big the target it. But, for the purposes of this conversation, the KD course with an M-16A2 determines whether you're an expert or not.

[redboxercasino]

true in some aspects,having the right leupold,with the right milldot scope,shooting downrange does make for an easier target,size to me doesn't matter,without a scope,even with an m-16a2 at a 1000 feetyou should be able to remove old georges face from a quarter,i know i can.just instinctive firing from an old tennessee country boy,just like oklahoma boys,wouldn't you say,babblumar.

[thewookie]

true in some aspects,having the right leupold,with the right milldot scope,shooting downrange does make for an easier target,size to me doesn't matter,without a scope,even with an m-16a2 at a 1000 feetyou should be able to remove old georges face from a quarter,i know i can.just instinctive firing from an old tennessee country boy,just like oklahoma boys,wouldn't you say,babblumar.


Like this?

[thewookie]

Here's my previously mentioned AR-15 with GySgt. Hathcock's signature on it.

One Shot One Kill

Semer Fi Marines

[redboxercasino]

i like it.now if your bullet could find my head,then i wouldn't have to keep living in hell like i am now

[thewookie]

i like it.now if your bullet could find my head,then i wouldn't have to keep living in hell like i am now.

Hey Mike, I was looking at your bio and I read some of your prior posts and too be honest some things don't make sense to me. Did you actually graduate USMC boot camp or not? Your avatar lists you as a Marine Private but if you didn't graduate boot camp then that isn't correct. I apologize if I'm wrong but it appears you we're separated from casual co.? Also, when you post would you please capitalize the M in Marine, and the C in Corps. It's this little attention to detail that makes us Marines what we are!

[DevilDogHEMech]

As the others said, listen to your PMI and your range coaches. They won't do you wrong. There is a reason that the training schedule in boot camp dedicates an entire week to marksmanship classes and snapping in before you even get to fire (called grass week). What they tell you about sight alignment, sight picture, bone support, trigger control, windage calls, etc is not BS, it will help you put that round in the black like a surgeon cutting with a knife. Also, since Oct 1st, the rifle range scoring system has changed. Instead of 250 points, it is now 350 points, with 305 or better being expert. Qualification consists of the standard 250 point KD course, plus another 50 rounds (2 points per round) doing EMP-type shooting with multiple targets, hammer drills, position changes, head shots, moving targets, speed reloads, etc. This is supposedly to make sure that Marines can fire as effectively in combat as we can on the KD course. Quick tip: when they tell you you have 5 seconds (or whatever) to complete a certain drill, don't let the time limits f*** with your head. You have plenty of time, and the fundamentals still apply. I just did my annual qual a couple weeks ago, and this new system screwed some guys up because they got scared of the time limits and rushed their shots. You must still apply the fundamentals you will be taught and take good shots, and you will do fine on both portions of the qualification. Don't take my word for it though, I'm just a third award expert :)

[GIJOE0341]

Hey this is kinda off topic. I looked in the forums but i couldnt find a definative answer. I know that you can have personal weapons on base but they have to be in the armory. Whats the policy for personal weapons in combat...specifically sidearms. Do they have to be approved by chain of command or something. I have a Glock 17 that im very attached too.

[rvillac2]

You are only allowed to carry the weapons you are issued. Some commands will not even permit you to carry outlandish combat knives. You will not be able to ship your personal firearm when you deploy. And even if you succeed in getting it over there, you won't be able to smuggle it back. Our troops are inspected by U.S. Customs just like everyone else.

Maybe some of the new Marines can confirm that this is still the policy?

[GIJOE0341]

Well dangit...I figured that was the case but i wanted to ask anyway. They dont issue standard infantry sidearms either do they?

[Echo_Four_Bravo]

Having a weapon that isn't an issued weapon would create a logistics nightmare. There would be no way to repair the weapon if something broke, there would be no way to get spare magazines and the like. And, it may surprise you to learn it may be difficult to get your hands on ammo. Most Marines aren't issued the M9 pistol, so the supply system is not set up to issue 9mm ammo to just anyone that wants it.

Simply put the pistol isn't really the weapon you need in a combat zone. There are much more effective tools at your disposal.

[GIJOE0341]

Very true Echo_Four_Bravo...its more of an sentimental thing than anything as ridiculous as that sounds. Im sure you have your favorite pistols/rifles.

[Echo_Four_Bravo]

I do, and I understand where you're coming from. I'm just explaining the Marine Corps logic.

Personally, if I had to go to any bad places without my Sig 226 I'd be pretty upset about it. It may not be the ideal weapon, but if your rifle stops working in a CQB situation a transition to pistol is the answer. If you don't have a pistol you've got problems.

[Seattlefungus]

Shooting is 90% mental preparedness. As said by others here, learn to relax. Not just your body. Your mind. Most competitive shooters call it "getting into the box" Start shooting with irons.
If you have a AR15, I'd find out what ammo is currently being used for qual. (M885 vs M193 ball). Different bullet weight rated for different rifling twist rate. If your weapon is Mil spec and the same twist rate. that's good. next, is the trigger a single stage US Military? or is it two stage? Mil triggers are single stage.
The best practice tho is grass time! The Marine's most hated exercising of firing postions, holding exercises, dry-firing and sling work! These can be done in your backyard.
A good source is http://www.jarheadtop.com/. Marine Master Gunnery Sgt Jim Owen, ret is a great source for high power info, supplies and even training. He teaches the USMC basics with the high gloss polish of his years of USMC High Power shooting team experience and post retirement U.S. National Match Distinguished Shooter.

For when you do put shots down range:

Learn good sling work, (Be prepared to learn new ways, always! & NEVER tell you PMI or Coach "That's not the way my Dad, uncle, buddies, Mom taught me".)
Learn your zero.
Lean to count down your dope at the end of the day.
Account and record all variable corrections for wind or conditions.
When 1st returning to shoot, re-apply your last dope, minus the variable.
Practice with the same ammo Lot. (Can really make a difference for consistency.)
Just keep in mind tho... In MCRD. Qualifiction is only one training stage. You will be busier than a one leged man in an ass kicking contest!!. In many ways, the Recruit experience is a small, but major step in the making of the Marine.

Good luck & Semper Fi!