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View Full Version : Question for the snipers out there.



rolly
10-15-07, 07:53 PM
A former Marine reservist recently told me that he was a scout/sniper. I was an active duty grunt several years ago, and had a few friends in STA, so I asked him when he went to sniper school. He replied that he hadn't gone to the school, but got "ordained" a sniper after going through OJT with his reserve unit. He went on to explain that a Cpl. in the unit who had previously been a Force Recon Marine took him under his wing and trained him on all things sniper related. After about a year's worth of drill weekends, this guy was given the title of scout/sniper. Now I don't know much about how things work in the reserves, and this was apparently done back in the late nineties, so maybe things have changed since I was in, but it seems highly suspicious that the Marine Corps would award that highly regarded title to anyone who hadn't gone through the nutcrunching school. Can anyone tell me if this guy's story holds water?

sparkie
10-15-07, 07:57 PM
who knows how the reserves work? But, without USMC sniper training, He couldn't find his a$$ with a new roll.

bigdog43701
10-15-07, 09:27 PM
know several scoout/snipers...he's blowing something...el toro poo poo

Wyoming
10-15-07, 09:35 PM
know several scoout/snipers...he's blowing something...el toro poo poo

Wannabee!!

Call him out!

thewookie
10-15-07, 10:26 PM
Well, you want my opinion,,, you said he said he was a scout/sniper but did he have the actual MOS? Maybe he thinks he is cause his hommies told him so, but 8541 or 0317 is now a scout/sniper MOS. They don't usually ordain that, unless you're good, but seriously maybe among small units but I would think if it isn't in his book or SRB as being a 8541, then he isn't. He might be mistaken or could be assigned as a DM or urban HR sniper but that would be different, not really the same as a scout/sniper, still a "sniper". I don't think it is as bad these days, especially with so much, or so many snipers/DM's out in combat, but the old talk between school trained SS and DM's was always interesting, they are different. Find out if he got the MOS, rolly, they can OJT some MOSes but I think scout/sniper 8541 is unlikely.

Nemesis0317
10-22-07, 09:24 PM
actually the way the reserves have been doing it is as follows:
school trained sniper platoons recruit from within their battalion potential 03's. then they run them through an indoc. once passing the indoc they're considered PIGS (professionally instructed gunmen) and maintain their school mos (0311 etc) however, in their BIR, their billeted mos is 0317. it's not until after they attend sniper school and upon graduation are given 0317 as their primary mos and are now HOGS (hunter of gunmen)

so your buddy might only be half full of sh*t

Quinbo
10-23-07, 10:34 AM
You can look at any STA platoon and find Marines that have taken the indoc and passed and were accepted into the unit but have not (yet) attended sniper school.

thewookie
10-23-07, 12:44 PM
Good point, when I was with 1/3 most of the guys from STA were not school trained, but back then they only had 1 SS school and that was at Quantico. So quota's to it were far and few between and what they relied upon was other Marines who were school trained to pass on the knowledge. Lets face it though it's not rocket science, no offense trust me. Learning the scope is or can be tough at first but the rest isn't as hard or can be learned/mastered back at the unit. The stalk takes time to learn and master but that can be learned at the unit, observation exercises can be done locally, so can land nav., they need the actual school for the range itself, and the math/scope and other weapon related training. And they can also get that done in the rear, but those instructors at SS school are much more informed and knowledgeable when it comes to optics and weapons then most armorer's in a line company. They should be they work hand in hand with the armorer's at WTB. That's another reason why it's tough to say someone isn't a sniper if they don't have the MOS. I think if your job requires you to shoot a scoped rifle at the enemy then your a sniper to me. You're not any way shape or form like GySgt Hathcock, or a school trained SS but for basic intents and purposes you are a sniper, just not a scout/sniper.

Isrowei
10-23-07, 01:39 PM
The proof is going to be in whether the details surrounding his claim are correct. Units, dates.. those are the bedrock of whether a person is telling the truth or not. If this was the early '90s then most likely someone from there is still around or recently retired. If you really want to get technical, have him cite a few references check it out.
Lots of people like to claim Scout Sniper... few people actually are. If he was "home-grown" and not school trained, he isn't a scout sniper. He's just a grunt with some cool friends.

Viper8541
10-25-07, 01:58 PM
I am school trained, but I remember a few years back hearing of a platoon which had OJT'd the entire platoon, which was a disappointment. I think that this story could easily be fiction, probably coming from someone who never went to school and wanted to be able to brag, but there have been cases where the MOS has been given away. The school is tough, but it should not be circumvented, but as we all know, what should be and what is are seldom the same.

USMC8541Sgt
01-01-08, 03:36 PM
I know I am jumping into this kind of late but here is my .02.

Ok, I did 13 years as a Reservist. 99% of it in a STA/SSP. There was once a time where 2 school trained 8541's could sign off on someone to get the MOS. I know no one in my Plt ever did that. I was in the "billet" of a Scout Sniper for a few years before I had the chance to go to the school. Did graduate the Reserve School in the late 90's. Then when we got mobed I graduated from 2nd MarDiv SSS as the High Shooter. Guess some nasty Reservists can do a good job every now and then. ;)

YOu know how damn hard it is for AD units to get a full complament of school trained snipers. The Reserves is even harder. We only had slots for Quantico and they hated the few guys we sent down. Even the prior AD guys. Untill we did AD in 2002, we relied on 8541's off AD to get our school trained HOGs.

Before I picked up the MOS, I ALWAYS told people that I served in the Plt, filled the billet, but had NOT graduated the school. Most people, Marines included really didnt get it.

Dagger3
01-28-08, 11:02 PM
Sniper for seven years, instructor for two out at Stone Bay SSS, NO, you cannot get the mos unless you go trough school, period. It's a slap in the face and a dishonor to have people like that in the corps going around claiming something that they're not, there is no ojt mos bs, you are an 8541 or a 0317 after and only after you graduate SSS...I would love to hear what MSGT Morris or Gunny Owens would say about this one.

Dagger 3 actual out...

Sgt Leprechaun
01-28-08, 11:47 PM
And, there you have it.

Dagger, Pls fill out a profile. Welcome aboard.

WolverineDuece
04-02-08, 04:50 AM
Lol-

Hate to contradict dagger's last posting but there was a person in my ss plt who was ojt'd. This was in '00, camp lejeune.... w/o going into great detail, lets just say it was a very special circimstance which all of the team leaders, plt sgt and LT sat down and agreed to.
When did the USMC create the new MOS "0317"? Is it now considered a "Primary MOS" or is it still a b billet?

Dagger - why are you calling yourself "actual"?.... "Actual" used to mean you were an officer, and officers in ss plt's are intel officers, not snipers....

sscjoe
04-02-08, 10:34 AM
Speaking of Snipers, does anyone out there know a Chris Capps. Retired as a Top?

FistFu68
04-02-08, 11:01 AM
:evilgrin: MY SQUAD IN THE 'NAM,HAD A WINCHESTER MODEL 70.IN 30/06.;WHEN WE RAN KILLER TEAMS WE WOULD TAKE TURN'S SHOOTING AT THE GOOK'S IN THE 'VILLE OR THEIR WATER BUFFALO.SINCE WE WERE ALL EXPERT RIFLEMAN WITH 0311 MOS'S YOU CAN SAY WE WERE ON THE JOB SNIPER'S.WE LOVED WHEN CONG SNIPERS SHOT AT US,IT THEN BECAME A DEADLY GAME OF ONE SHOT-ONE KILL!!!:usmc: :iwo:

Dagger3
04-02-08, 12:55 PM
Wolverine

1. There's no "special circumstances" in which a Marine would get ojt'd as an 8541, if a Marine have not been to school and passed it, then he's not an 8541, I was an instructor there (98-00), if still in doubt call school, they'll tell you all about it, if you're in camp lejeune call base info, they'll give you the number.

2. An "actual" is a leader, dagger 3 actual meaning the leader of dagger 3 wich is a team within dagger, dagger being the name of the plt, therefore dagger actual is the plt commander.

3. 8541 is not a "b" billet, have you ever heard of recruiting duty, msg, drill instructor, those are.

4. This tells me that you're not an 8541, I urge to find other snipers and go on about your theory with them, see for yourself...

Dagger 3 actual out...

Zulu 36
04-02-08, 01:47 PM
Dagger - why are you calling yourself "actual"?.... "Actual" used to mean you were an officer, and officers in ss plt's are intel officers, not snipers....

I agree with Dagger3. ZULU 3-6 was my callsign as a flight sergeant in the Air Guard security police. I was the boss, no officer assigned, so I was the "actual" when someone wanted to speak directly with the boss of ZULU 3d Flight. My squadron only had one officer anyway, everything else was run by senior NCOs.

MotivatorOfTheGuard
04-02-08, 03:16 PM
Dagger - why are you calling yourself "actual"?.... "Actual" used to mean you were an officer, and officers in ss plt's are intel officers, not snipers.... Fill out your profile please. Also, you are incorrect about who the officers are in the SS platoon, and being a Scout/Sniper is not a "B" billet...
:evilgrin:

Quinbo
04-02-08, 09:15 PM
8541 should not be equated with barracks, msg, recruiting or drill instructor but it is not a primary MOS.

thewookie
04-03-08, 06:51 AM
8541 should not be equated with barracks, msg, recruiting or drill instructor but it is not a primary MOS.

I agree, and much like you're getting at I think the Marine in question was using the term or the description of a B billet a little loosely. The question is, is 0317 a primary MOS now? In my time I've heard Marines refer to being in a STA plt as being in a B Billet, but technically it's not. Still it's sometimes thought of like that because it's never been a primary MOS. It's more of a way of saying you're not doing your primary MOS because the only true B billets for promotion are MSG, DI, and Recruiter.

As far as OJT'ing 8541. Most school trained hardened 8541's will say no way. And having taught a school, (CQB) that I don't think can be OJT'ed I also see the point. But I think for 8541 it happens at commands, in special circumstances, where school seats might not be easily available. And more so back in the day when there was only one Scout Sniper School. I mean if you have a bunch of school trained Marines working in a platoon for several years with a bunch of non-school trained Marines, I think over time the non school trained ones could be trained and tested for the MOS. You'll never get the "real" training unless you are there, but if you're performing the MOS for a period of years in a highly competent manner then I think it's worth considering, in special circumstances. I mean the Instructors at any of the SSS out there must go back to the fleet at some point and get back into a STA platoon. Why wouldn't they be competent enough to work with non 8541's in their new platoon, and eventually pass (through testing) the MOS to them?

Dagger3
04-03-08, 08:54 PM
wookie,

Check out maradmin 329/06 it'll tell you how 8541 was converted to occupational field 0317 (occfld), also I really see your point on the instructors going back to the plt's to work with non 41's and to test them to eventually pass or give them the mos, but really ask yourself if this was possible then why have all the schools around?, would that mean that you can have ojt'd 0321's or maybe 8451's or what about 7314's (uav pilots)?

The reason for the school (sniper school) is to have a controlled environment in which the students go at the speed and level that the school guides them not the other way around, sss is ten weeks in lenght, one of the longest schools in the military, believe me that's not even enough time to cover all the material that you're supposed to. You're there for almost three months day in day out, all the logistics, planning, support, training areas, learning and teaching aids, if platoons were to conduct local schools what would happen to their training, mission tempo, etc, what would they use as guidelines, that would mean that a platoon from the weast coast would have different snipers that those on the east coast, and maybe you could have the same differences within the division which you already have by the way they run their respectives indocs, some last a day and others a week.

At one time we had three instructors in our platoon, besides teaching the "new" guys you also have to take care of yourself, getting into gear again, when you're an instructor sometimes you don't have much time to practice, your primary goal is to teach, to instruct, grade, etc...

If it was like a lot of people speculate then there would also be ojt'd seal's, green beans, rangers, pj's and who knows maybe even delta operators all over the place, believe me brother the only way to earn your hog's tooth is going to school.

Dagger 3 actual out...

thewookie
04-03-08, 09:19 PM
wookie,

Check out maradmin 329/06 it'll tell you how 8541 was converted to occupational field 0317 (occfld), also I really see your point on the instructors going back to the plt's to work with non 41's and to test them to eventually pass or give them the mos, but really ask yourself if this was possible then why have all the schools around?, would that mean that you can have ojt'd 0321's or maybe 8451's or what about 7314's (uav pilots)?

The reason for the school (sniper school) is to have a controlled environment in which the students go at the speed and level that the school guides them not the other way around, sss is ten weeks in lenght, one of the longest schools in the military, believe me that's not even enough time to cover all the material that you're supposed to. You're there for almost three months day in day out, all the logistics, planning, support, training areas, learning and teaching aids, if platoons were to conduct local schools what would happen to their training, mission tempo, etc, what would they use as guidelines, that would mean that a platoon from the weast coast would have different snipers that those on the east coast, and maybe you could have the same differences within the division which you already have by the way they run their respectives indocs, some last a day and others a week.

At one time we had three instructors in our platoon, besides teaching the "new" guys you also have to take care of yourself, getting into gear again, when you're an instructor sometimes you don't have much time to practice, your primary goal is to teach, to instruct, grade, etc...

If it was like a lot of people speculate then there would also be ojt'd seal's, green beans, rangers, pj's and who knows maybe even delta operators all over the place, believe me brother the only way to earn your hog's tooth is going to school.

Dagger 3 actual out...

I understand what you're saying and you made some very good points. I agree some jobs are not OJT-able. Works for me, Semper Fi Marine.

Hypercrew
01-13-11, 01:42 PM
I became a Corpsman to specifically enter my buddies STA PLT. He was school trained, there were 8 teams and by no means was everyone trained. Each team had one school trained sniper and the rest were trained by him and took there turn on the rifle on missions. That said, no one was every given an MOS out of it but it was sort of assumed they were snipers. Hell, I was attached to a team and still have trouble explaining what I was doing there but man was it fun!

grocha6872
01-13-11, 02:41 PM
Does any body know Frank Garcia Nam 69 - 70?

FistFu68
01-13-11, 02:46 PM
:evilgrin: No but Lee Harvey Oswald & Charlie Whittman were "OTJ SNIPERS" :beer: :iwo:

Mongoose
01-13-11, 03:19 PM
I hear ya Fist. Charles Whitman was a good shot. But Oswald wasnt that great. I think he only qualified marksman on the range. Always made me wonder how he pulled off what he did in Dallas with a moving target.

Trucrimsongold
01-13-11, 04:50 PM
Sounds like you should stand in front of him and scream at the top of your lungs "shananigans" which is a civil way to say toro caca. You should know better, come on dude you know those guys have to go through that gruelling training and some of them don't make it yet some force dude can wave his hand? And a reservist no less? In all actuality though the sniper's in "sta" platoon during the gulf drive dirt bikes and delivered our mail to us. And that was during both shield and storm.

R Landry
01-13-11, 05:05 PM
Anyone know these three Marine snipers in this famous photo?


(http://www.hrc.utexas.edu/exhibitions/web/ddd/gallery/war/index.html)
Vietnam (http://www.hrc.utexas.edu/exhibitions/web/ddd/gallery/war/vietnam.html)
previous (http://www.hrc.utexas.edu/exhibitions/web/ddd/gallery/war/348.html) / index (http://www.hrc.utexas.edu/exhibitions/web/ddd/gallery/war/vietnam.html) / next (http://www.hrc.utexas.edu/exhibitions/web/ddd/gallery/war/350.html)
<table width="630" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"> <tbody><tr> <td style="padding-right: 15px;" valign="top">http://www.hrc.utexas.edu/exhibitions/web/ddd/includes/images/475/349.jpg
</td> <td valign="top">"The snipers of Khe Sanh work in three-man teams. When they drop an enemy each man of the team is credited with a kill. Here Lance Corporal Albert Miranda, 19, of El Paso, Texas, squeezes off a shot at a North Vietnamese soldier . . . His fellow sniper, Lance Corporal David Burdwell, 20, of Wichita Falls, Texas (center), calls the shot together with their platoon lieutenant, Alec Bodenwiser of Portland, Ore., the third member of the team. [February 1968.]" Life. 23 Feb. 1968. p. 27.
</td> </tr> </tbody></table>

Raider95
06-09-15, 02:15 PM
I don't even know where to start as I can only relate from my experiences and knowledge. Wookie seems to be a good poster. Dagger 3 thinks he knows all and speaks as if he knows what happened in...

Marine1011
06-09-15, 03:12 PM
This thread is 8 years old and the last post on it before today was 4 1/2 years ago, yet we talk like it was a current conversation going on. gotta love it!

Raider95
06-09-15, 03:31 PM
This thread is 8 years old and the last post on it before today was 4 1/2 years ago, yet we talk like it was a current conversation going on. gotta love it!

That's the internet for ya! But the point is still valid.

Raider95
06-11-15, 12:52 PM
I've reread what the OP has wrote several times now, reharshing it. I think the guy he's talking about may be bullcrapping or he misunderstood what the guy was saying / meaning. Probably, most likely the former.

I don't think an Enlisted Marine can just give any other Marine an MOS without it having to go through a Command element and / or a HQ of some type or group to porvide a TAD order.

He could have maybe meant that the Force Recon Marine just taught / trained him in some sniper techniques / skills. But I have some questions on that. Also how could a Recon Marine teach the Scout Sniper MOS? There both different and seperate MOSs. The Recon Marine could teach him recon skills and maybe OJT him as a Recon Marine but wouldn't it take someone that's a Scout Sniper to teach him scout sniper skills? Is there a crossover of skills between Force Recon Marines and Scout Snipers?

It takes some one in authority such as a CO to assign or appoint a Marine to a task, duty position or job function, to recieve the MOS title. You can be ordered to help out with something or do something by NCOs / SNCOs / Officers but that's where the time limit also comes into play. To claim a MOS, you have to perform that job for 6 months (or some set amount of time which was 6 months in my time era), not just a few days or even weeks. You can still claim that you did the job but you can't claim the MOS is what I'm getting at I guess, at least not offically. But there was ways to OJT MOSs that were official (at least in my time). Also Commanding Officers and Battalion Commnaders could give out MOS titles at their discretion during my time in service. They rarely did so though from my understanding.

Also there's a time critria that has to be met to be able to claim a MOS through OJT (or there was in my time era) which was holding and / or performing that MOS for at least 6 months.

I may have sounded harsh to Dagger 3 or wasn't quite clear in my intentions. Also I wasn't meaning that Dagger 3 didn't know what he was talking about or that he wasn't correct in what he was saying, for his time period in service. I was just meaning that people can't assume they know what has happened about stuff that was before their time or even after it because the MC is always changing. The stuff that he talked about is more than likely right for or during his service time.

Also I heard that the (new) 0317 MOS was titled "Infantry" Scout Sniper, is this not correct? Also Designated Marksman position didn't exist in my time in service and is a "new" thing.

There were even MOSs that didn't have MOS "tags" (in my days). My last three years in AD, I was a "Classified Message Courier" (my primary duty, I had other duties at the same time also such as being the barracks manager for the group). I mainly worked in and out of a CMCC vault. I was both a CMCC clerk and a CMS clerk, I could run both sides (only person that could at the Group which meant I was the one who was always called in for all the alerts). I was told that the MOS code was 3 different ones, such as 0221, 0151 and another I no longer remember. In my SRB, it's listed as 0151 (even though it's an 02 field MOS), on my DD214, it's not listed at all, even though that was my primary duty for 3 years.

On the article I posted. It is stated as a course, does that mean it's considered a school?

It does say if they pass, they are called / qualified as "Urban Snipers". So is this a MOS? Or just a title? It sounds like the Dedicated / Duty sniper terms they had when I was in the MarDet.

"Tasked with operating both in groups and individually, the students who graduate become qualified as urban snipers and are able to take the training back to their units and share what they learned with their fellow Marines."

(My statements are from my time era and understanding, several things could have changed at any given time afterwards or maybe even been different in other units at the same time period)

Raider95
06-12-15, 08:00 PM
Some more thoughts on this:

Probably way over thinking this but I'm going to break down what the OP said.

"A former Marine reservist recently told me that he was a scout/sniper."

So the guy claims he's a scout sniper. Hmmm.
-----

"I was an active duty grunt several years ago, and had a few friends in STA, so I asked him when he went to sniper school. He replied that he hadn't gone to the school, but got "ordained" a sniper after going through OJT with his reserve unit."

Was he just termed a Sniper or was he a Scout Sniper? I think both are not the same.

Did the whole unit go through this same training? Or just him?

Sometimes it is hard to get a school slot so school is sometimes bypassed (in and at the needs of the Corps). OJT is a real thing within the Corps and is something used for expedience at times.
-----

"He went on to explain that a Cpl. in the unit who had previously been a Force Recon Marine took him under his wing and trained him on all things sniper related. After about a year's worth of drill weekends, this guy was given the title of scout/sniper."

Who gave him the title? The Recon guy?, his unit?, the unit's HQ / Admin dept?, the unit's CO? This would be helpful to know.

Did the CO of the Reserve unit authorize the Recon guy to train said other guy?(when I was in, we did get a lot of cross training and had Duty Experts on specific subjects within the MarDet as one Marine can not know or remember everything)

(Just a note: I'm not sure but I don't think an XO can even give MOSs unless he's an Acting CO at the time when doing so)

Would a Reserve year of drill weekends (what is that 48 hours? with big gaps inbetween training sessions) equal the 6 month criteria for claiming an OJT MOS in a time equation? Does Reserves have a different OJT criteria than Active Duty?
-----

Not enough info to prosecute a conclusion. Is it true, maybe. Could it be true, possibly. Chances of it being true, slim, especially the way the guy is explaining it.

I always like to give Marines the benefit of the doubt and take them at their word. (because sorry to say, I have a gullible and trusting nature and a lot of things like this happened to me while I was in (getting a lot of or most job tasks that I was assigned to perform at the MarDet and having to learn or teach myself through OJT. Even when I was the Classified Message Courier [I was one for / at the MarDet but it was a minor job task there but the reason I got the job at the other duty station], I had to teach myself by reading manuals, and just doing the job daily as there was no SOP and I later got tasked with writing one up for my job duties there), so it is plausible to my way of thinking).

Sometimes crazy stuff can / does happen, at times, in the Corps and especially in the Reserves.

Where the Reserves get rank faster (or did from my time era) for doing less. My experiences with Reserves was we would send them to do PT or sit them down to read manuals or we sent them on liberty because they slowed us down to much on daily business that required doing. We hated the days that Reserves showed up.

I had a friend who was a school trained Cook but in the Reserves unit they sent him to, the Reserve unit's Command made him an ANGLICO guy (so things can and have been known to happen like that).

Another example is I had a friend that was a water purifcation specialist from school, the MC unit he was sent to, had him being a truck driver. This was on active duty.

I could go on and on with other examples but I'm going to stop there. Anyways that's all I have to say that I can recall on this at the moment.

PJones64
06-12-15, 08:02 PM
whaaaaaa???

MunkyVsRobot
06-13-15, 05:02 AM
Who are you speaking to? Most of the people who were speaking in this thread dont even visit the site anymore.

PJones64
06-13-15, 06:35 AM
That is what is so hilarious about this site, this tendency lately to bring up very old threads like it was nothing. hahaha. And they don't listen to reason, when someone points it out to them. well, I was uh seein this thread, and uh decided to, uh, didn't see the year on it, didn't realize it was started in 1922 and no wonder they wuz talkin about Prohibition and stuff like that.

Raider95
06-16-15, 04:47 PM
I was speaking to anyone really as it is a discussion on the subject. (on the net, age doesn't matter when it's still an open discussion)

Here's something more to discuss sorta related to this subject. (I looked for where to start a thread but I only found new posts)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/why-the-marines-have-failed-to-adopt-a-new-sniper-rifle-in-the-past-14-years/2015/06/13/cb924d96-0eaf-11e5-a0dc-2b6f404ff5cf_story.html

(http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/why-the-marines-have-failed-to-adopt-a-new-sniper-rifle-in-the-past-14-years/2015/06/13/cb924d96-0eaf-11e5-a0dc-2b6f404ff5cf_story.html)

Old Marine
06-16-15, 05:45 PM
Sounds to be like someone is in a round room and is having trouble finding the corner.

Raider95
06-16-15, 06:18 PM
What nothing to say on the subject or were you one of those types that just sat in the barracks and did nothing for most of their time? I thought we were supposed to discuss the subject.

I had to post because Dagger 3 was misleading on several of his statements.

Any thoughts on the link I posted?

Old Marine
06-16-15, 09:38 PM
I don't think I will comment on something from 1922 as I was not on this earth until 1934.

Raider95
06-16-15, 10:33 PM
They need to lock the threads if they don't want any more comments posted on the subject. If it's an open thread, then you can still post hopefully constructive comments on the subject (which I have been doing). If you don't have anything to say on the subject, you shouldn't be posting.

joseywales
06-17-15, 10:43 AM
Great idea. See what other really old threads are here. lol

HST
06-19-15, 02:19 PM
I don't know how things are done today but back in the "Old Corps" chuckle, chuckle...If you worked in a different MOS for 6 months and got good ratings, it became your primary MOS. All of it was done at company or at most battalion level, they just changed it in your service records and that was that.

I'm a good example of it. When i went to Nam, I was right out of wire school but they didn't want or need wiremen but the grunt outfits did need radio operators for HST's which were just getting started and for FAC"s so they gave some of us a choice either stand lines every night and burn ****ters every day or strike as radio operators. I told them I didn't know a thing about a radio but I'd try, they said they would train me the next day I was on a 130 with a PRC 25 on my back bound for 3/4 at the Rockpile. At the time I didn't even know what end the battery went in but I picked it up and worked at either HST or FAC for the next 2 years. Back then that's how the Corps worked enlisted and officers. I served with a whole lot of very good Marines who never spent a day in school for their MOS, the general feeling was if you can do the job...its yours. I guess times have changed.

BERUZ
06-26-15, 12:07 AM
What's the difference between 0311 then becoming a scout sniper or 0321 and becoming a scout sniper.

MunkyVsRobot
06-26-15, 04:19 PM
based on that question i would ascert you were a boot straight out of boot camp or not even a marine yet, especially considering your profile is barely filled out im leaning to the latter rather than the former..

josephd
06-26-15, 07:24 PM
What's the difference between 0311 then becoming a scout sniper or 0321 and becoming a scout sniper.

what's the difference between 3531 then becoming a scout sniper or 0111 and becoming a scout sniper?

Raider95
06-28-15, 07:37 AM
As a 03xx I think you would have a better chance at it. Especially now that it's an Infantry MOS 0317.

There was critirea to meet (in my time). You had to have a high PT score of around 280 to 300. You had to have 3 consecutive Expert range quals. You had to have 20/20 vision or correctable to that standard. There were a few more but I forget what they were now. Although with the 8541 MOS some of these could be waived by a CO or Battalion Commander.

I have a friend who started as a 0341 (? that's from memory so if it's wrong I apoligize) mortar man who later went Reconnaissance man 0321. He has said that he was being prepped to go to SS school when he lost his hearing and was dropped and that he got kicked from the ship (he was stationed on an aircraft carrier in a weapons platoon before losing his hearing). After that he got put in a truck company as a low level mechanic fixing broken headlights and put in a tool room trading tools for ID cards. He left the Corps because of this. Although he's very proud for having been a Recon Marine.

The guy I was talking about in an earlier post was actually a schooled 0121 although he performed many other job tasks besides fulfilling multiple admin type functions and roles besides his primary schooled duty, such as being an ammunition handler for a 5" gun turret, was the radio man for the HQ (although at times this was traded with another HQ Marine), was a machine gunner / assist gunner at times on a M60E3 MG, he was also qualed on the .50 cal M2 HMG and for awhile (not long enough to claim the MOS) was a M249 gunner. None of these are in his SRB as they were all considered "secondary" TAD MOSs for him (even though he held most for over a year or longer), that he filled and preformed when needed. His primary was being the MarDet's SRB clerk but he held / filled many other duty functions also, much more so than all of the other MarDet Marines. He didn't learn that he could claim them til he was out of the Corps, much later. He still claims the MOSs now as he did do them while in (at least the ones he did over 6 months, as he did most over a year or even longer, some close to 2 years). There's a saying that goes like "All gave some, Some gave all", he added another line "and I gave more than most" because of all the other full MOS duties he had been given and performed without question, while other Marines only had 1 job function or would refuse anything but to do their one MOS job (which he never understood how the other Marines could do that). He liked to learn other skills and to perform the best that he could.

His Bootcamp was longer than normal for the time as the then Commandant wanted every Marine a rifleman because the Corps had slacked on this and had tried to follow the other forces and had tried to make the MC into a 9 to 5 job (as much as it could which doesn't work for a Force in Readiness during the middle '80s) before his time in. His Boot was 18 weeks instead of the normal 12 at the time, as a SoI type phase was implemented into it (it was an experimental evolotion which was dropped as it was later deemed to costly and that it was thought that parent commands should train their Marines). And he got a 0311 designator for awhile but which later got resended (by another Commandant I think, not exactly sure what happened there. For awhile the 0311 was in the SRBs then a line was put through it and later the page was totally retyped with the 0311 descripter being erased. Maybe the new Commandant didn't want Marines to have 2 primary listed MOSs at the same time in their SRBs as there was only a few Marines that had this because of the limited experimental evolotion. Exactly why it was changed is unknown to me).

xxxxx

I found this while looking for something else.

The Marine Corps Occupational System uses a four-digit number code constructed on the concept that occupations with similar skill, knowledge, or functional application requirements are grouped into functional areas, known as occupational fields (OccFlds), and skill-knowledge sets, known as Military Occupational Specialties (MOSs).

OccFlds are identified by the first two digits of the four-digit code and a descriptive title.

The OccFld is a grouping of related MOSs. The MOS is a four-digit code consisting of the OccFld code completed by two additional digits. It describes a set of related duties and tasks that extend over one or more grades.

The Marine Corps used to have two basic types of MOSs -- Primary MOSs (PMOS), and Category "B" MOS. Category "B" MOSs were sort of a job-within-a job. A Marine who possessed a PMOS and received extra training in a specialized procedure or equipment could then also be awarded the Category "B" MOS that related to that specialized training.

However, in 2007, the Marine Corps eliminated Category "B" MOSs and replaced them with NMOS, FMOS, EMOS, and AMOS:

Primary MOS (PMOS): Used to identify the primary skills and knowledge of a Marine. In other words, it is the Marine's primary military job.

Necessary MOS (NMOS): A non-PMOS that has a prerequisite of one or more PMOSs. This MOS identifies a particular skill or training that is in addition to a Marine's PMOS, but can only be filled by a Marine with a specific PMOS.

Free MOS (FMOS): Non-PMOS that can be filled by any Marine regardless of primary MOS. A free MOS requires skill sets unrelated to primary skills.

Exception MOS (EMOS): Non-PMOS that is generally a FMOS, but include exceptions that require a specific PMOS.

Additional MOS (AMOS): Any existing PMOS awarded to a Marine who already holds a PMOS. Marines are not promoted in an AMOS.

xxxxx

I found this but it doesn't have TAD (Temporary Additional Duty) listed (wonder if it's been done away with then?) but it does have a lot of other stuff that is new. Now there are 5 different MOSs I guess. This is even more confusing, haha.

PJones64
06-28-15, 08:03 AM
OLD THREAD FROM YEARS AGO, ARE THESE PEOPLE STILL READING THIS THREAD???????? doubt it lol

PJones64
06-28-15, 08:04 AM
Lets dredge something up about Prohibition while were at it, just to keep current

joseywales
06-28-15, 09:36 AM
What's wrong with these people bringing up ancient threads like it was a conversation started today? They have no idea how bizarre it looks.

USMC 2571
06-28-15, 10:58 AM
Yep--odd.

Marine1011
06-28-15, 10:59 AM
One thng for dang sure, it aint like fine wine, the older the better :)

Raider95
06-28-15, 09:17 PM
Lets dredge something up about Prohibition while were at it, just to keep current
Then don't think of it as a conversation like one would have on the street but people just putting down their knowledge and experiences to discuss on a subject. Why is it so hard to understand that?

Also why all the prohibition references? Is someone hitting the sauce a little to hard? Are you ok? Should I request a Marine alcohol councilor for you?

josephd
06-28-15, 09:30 PM
Why is it so hard to understand that?

because it is poor forum etiquette

HST
06-29-15, 12:44 PM
"poor forum etiquette" Now there's a new one. Can I find that publication in the online library, right next to the roberts rules for forums?

When you look at the number of people who participate You should be glad when anyone comments on anything here regardless of it's age. Most of the time this place is like Is anybody home? Hello...hello...hello...hello

PJones64
06-29-15, 03:00 PM
The average person who reads 37 and 50's references to Prohibition, two references only, will not be struck in the same way as Raider, who reads too much into posts. The point, let me walk you through it, is that this thread is old, like Prohibition. To read more into it is unusual. It truly takes all kinds, but that's ok, keep posting on ancient threads. lol

HST
06-29-15, 05:15 PM
Semper Fi Brother but remember this...We The Marines...Our Future is really built on the past...We revere those who built the history that we learned while we were active and now we are the ones who must pass that on to the next generation of Marines.

silveradomick
06-29-15, 06:21 PM
I'd like a copy of that Roberts Rules for Forums...

That was pretty rich. Thanks for the chuckle.

josephd
06-29-15, 10:23 PM
"poor forum etiquette" Now there's a new one. Can I find that publication in the online library, right next to the roberts rules for forums?

When you look at the number of people who participate You should be glad when anyone comments on anything here regardless of it's age. Most of the time this place is like Is anybody home? Hello...hello...hello...hello

it's like golf etiquette, unwritten rules

I am an administrator/moderator and part owner of a few car forums....we keep it relevant, any thread older than 2 years automatically gets archived. You can still view it but not able to post in it unless another administrator or myself open it back up. It is a HUGE drain on the server and host to keep garbage like this going.

Raider95
06-29-15, 11:47 PM
How is it garbage? It was a pertinent question.

How so? When the subject is still relevant. It's an open thread. I was adding stuff that was on subject to the thread.

Better than starting a whole new thread and then copy pasting all the posts again, I think.

Contribute to the subject. Your guys' posts aren't on the topic.

Also like you said the thread needs to be locked if the forum owners don't want any more posts on the subject. But in this case, that would have been a shame as the posted info was misleading and not totally correct (maybe for the one guy's era).

FistFu68
06-30-15, 06:18 AM
Old School Scout Snipers...you young Bucks couldn't wipe the Fudge outta their Skivvies...they where tougher stronger smarter & better shots...didn't need no Lazer 2 achieve a Step On etc etc etc

Marine1011
06-30-15, 12:41 PM
It was a pertinent question 8 years ago.

HST
06-30-15, 01:09 PM
It was a pertinent question 48 years ago. I saw a lot of so called snipers when I was in Nam. They used to set up inside our lines at places like Con Thein with a spotter who had some kind of a telescope on a tripod and pop at gooks of opportunity. I shot the sh*t with a few of them, nothing special except they had very good weapons, some had M-1s some had M-14's and some had a bolt action deal, they all had scopes and some kind of leather cheek thing. I thought they were just dudes who were very good shots, none of them seemed to have any kind of special training. I got the impression that the spotter could move up to the shooters job when there was an opening.