A Poolee with Guts-Ub3rmike

[rvillac2]

On an Ask a Marine post, I made a comment about a poolees profile picture and this was his response in a PM:

I don't want to get off the wrong foot, because if I'm unknowingly violating some sort of TOS (Terms of Services) with it, I'll quickly remove the offending picture.

However, what concerns me the most is what was said here: Honestly, it looks like something we'd see on CNN after another national day of tragedy. I truly hope you will be able to identify my points for wanting to retain the picture in my profile, or at least respect the points that I can offer.

Please don't take this the wrong way, because I believe every incident such as Virgnia Tech is a tragedy as much as the next guy if not more so. However, and excuse my crude language, I believe it this sort of fear-mongering and sensationalism which poorly reflects American values. In this day and age, firearms and firearm ownership has unmistakingly been demonized by entertainment media as well as the reporting on horrible incidents which include but are not limited to the Washington D.C. Sniper, Texas University, or Columbine. I do not believe that is fair to immediately relate one member of a group or demographic because of the offenses that a single person of that group has committed.

After the Virgnia Tech shooting, myself, and my friends (who are also of asiatic descent and use firearms for recreation or self-defense) were immediately bombarded with comments about how we looked like we were either mentally insane or how we were going to commit the next travesty. Even at school, I was often said to be the next one to do something "crazy" because I did nothing to hide my enjoyment of firearms. To put it in a more general perspective, take a look at any report of the abuses committed by military personnel. What the involved parties did was probably inexcusable, but is it fair to immeditely harbor a prejudice for ALL people serving in the military because of the acts of a few? If one law enforcement officer was convicted for brutality towards a suspect, would it be fair to say that all law enforcement officers are "jack-booted thugs?"

The reason I publically display images of myself with firearms or using firearms is because I truly do want to convey the message that it is a complete myth that only mentally insane or emotionally disturbed people have firearms. I can identify with why people might think I'm one of those "crazy" people, but I would like to think that if they took the time to personally know me, they might think that I am a socially adjusted person, that I do put my best effort in pursuing academic improvement, and I'm just like any normal person.

I do believe that it is quite ludicrous that I or anyone who is involved with firearms should be barred from expressing themselves either through pictures or any other kind of media on a public forum or any private forum as long as they are not violating the private forum's Terms of Service. The suppression of both one's right to possess arms and to express ones self because of a crisis is reminiscent of the birth of any totalitarian government or classical Roman dictatorship. This is most likely the opposite of what the founding fathers intended when they founded the United States of America.

Again, if I am indeed violating any rules of terms of service, I will rectify the situation as quickly as possible. However, the one thing I want to stress in this message is that it truly is hurtful to be unfairly categorized for an action that I was not even responsible for. I believe everyone is entitled to their own thoughts, but I would like to respectfully ask you to refrain from referring to me or anyone else as the next "thing we'd see on CNN after another national day of tragedy," when we have not been found to cause such a tragedy. I'm sure anyone would not appreciate being put in the same category of Seung-Hui Cho or Dylan Klebold.

Please, if you disagree with ANY of the points I hve made, I am more than willing to hear out your counter-points and I truly would like for us to resolve any differences we may have, for it would be such a shame for us to have such a shaky relationship on this community because we were not able to solve our problems in a civil manner which reflected "The quality of maturity, dedication, trust, and dependability that commits Marines to act responsibly; to be accountable for their actions: to fufill obligations; and to hold others accountable for their actions."

- Michael Liao

Let me just start by saying that I think this kid has more guts than that JCAM poser (Notice he signed his name?) who even claims to be a Marine Corporal!

Michael,
I wanted to post your response because I found it both pointed, articulate, and, above all, respectful. Your level of maturity at your age is both impressive and rare.

My response:
Unfortunately, the way you chose to express yourself with that picture concerns a great many people in our country. Too often in the past, these kinds of pictures are found portraying less than lawful people. The black leather jacket, sunglasses, assault rifle and, most prominently, the bayonet all portray a killer. This is a stark contrast to a sportsman's photos with his rifle, pistol, or bow taken during a hunt, on the range, or at a competitive match. So, I'm sorry to say, the majority of us would form a negative impression of you based on this picture.

Of course, context is everything. Had you been wearing cammies and face paint, we would have teased you as a wannabe rambo and nothing more. In fact, I remember a set of photos on this forum with a poolee handling a variety of firearms and we all found his excitement entertaining.

My guidance to you is this: You've taken the first step to becoming on the most professional soldiers in the world, a U.S. Marine. During your time as a poolee, you should do everything you can to become one of us and portray yourself in a positive light. Marines distinguish themselves with their military presence. The tight haircut, the perfectly pressed uniform, and the rigid posture all scream discipline, strength, and courage. Try to pursue this image with physical training and other poolee activities. Try less to express yourself like the way you did in the picture and you will encounter a lot less resistance.

The other Marines here will have some comments for you and I hope you take everything in stride like the man I'm convinced that you are. We offer tough love, some of us offer it tougher than others, but we all have the same goal of inspiring you, informing you, and supporting your efforts to become a Marine.

Now, Carry on!

[thewookie]

Good comments, very good job of handling that, I'm not sure if I could have done that as well. I know I have to be more aware of what I'm saying in the open, and to who. I just assume sometime that everyone on this site has good intentions,,or is honest. But that's not always the case, and thank you for clueing me in!

BTW - He sounds educated, hopefully he's not too sour about anything in general, but I bet he's using this as a front for some insecurities? But you can't be sure these days!

Thanks

Semper Fi

[sparkie]

I don't see his post as real,,, In any way...Sorry.

[Ub3rmike]

I don't see his post as real,,, In any way...Sorry.
Well, if you think about it from the perspective of the meta-game, potentially anything one can say on an internet forum while protecting his own anonymity can lack sincerity. True, I can throw around fancy rhetoric to portray myself in a positive light, but in the end, it really does come down to how one conducts himself, not how one portrays or sells himself. (Actions speak louder than words.)

The difference here however is that I am not hiding behind anonymity, my name is clearly on the line as I conduct myself here. I take my name and reputation very seriously. Its the difference between "Thats Michael (Poolee) Liao, the jerk who lashed out at men far beyond his years," and "Thats Michael (Poolee) Liao, that guy is doing his best to diplomatically interact with other people." (Not only that, but I'm also in a way reflecting my character, so I not only have my name to uphold, but my recruiters as well.)

Now I know I'm hard pressed to prove my genuinity in my private message, but again, I guess the only way it can be taken seriously is if A: one takes it for face value, or B: I act in a way which garners respect and makes my name synonomous with integrity. Those are the points I presented, but it is not up to me whether or not one should consider that post real.

But to address the original response, I will do my best to portray myself in a respectable manner which reflects the spirit and values of the Marine Corps in addition to the way I act. I look forward to expressing those qualities both on this community and in "the real world."

[thewookie]

Well, if you think about it from the perspective of the meta-game, potentially anything one can say on an internet forum while protecting his own anonymity can lack sincerity. True, I can throw around fancy rhetoric to portray myself in a positive light, but in the end, it really does come down to how one conducts himself, not how one portrays or sells himself. (Actions speak louder thn words.)

The difference here however is that I am not hiding behind anonymity, my name is clearly on the line as I conduct myself here. I take my name and reputation very seriously. Its the difference between "Thats Michael (Poolee) Liao, the jerk who lashed out at men far beyond his years," and "Thats Michael (Poolee) Liao, that guy is doing his best to diplomatically interact with other people."

Now I know I'm hard pressed to prove my genuinity in my private message, but again, I guess the only way it can be taken seriously is if A: one takes it for face value, or B: I act in a way which garners respect and makes my name synonomous with integrity. Those are the points I presented, but it is not up to me whether or not one should consider that post real.

But to address the original response, I will do my best to portray myself in a respectable manner which reflects the spirit and values of the Marine Corps in addition to the way I act. I look forward to expressing those qualities both on this community and in "the real world."

Relax dude, take a deep breath and relax. Remember what Sgt. V said about people not perceiving you the same way as you want to be. When you post a photo like that, on this site, with all the education that you appear to have then you should have the discipline to take the comments. because you will get comments. if you want us to view you as something, or to not view you as something then take down that photo and go with nothing. Then, if you give respect then you will get it in return. Based solely on your comments and interactions with other poolees, and Marines. Don't get all riled up and feel the need to show us anything. You can't, we've been there done that. But you can listen. Relax

[Marine84]

I will do my best to portray myself in a respectable manner

Then please change the pic - no offense but, you're STILL a child and children shouldn't post pics of themselves handling weapons with bayonets on the tip of them on the internet.

[rvillac2]

But to address the original response, I will do my best to portray myself in a respectable manner which reflects the spirit and values of the Marine Corps in addition to the way I act. I look forward to expressing those qualities both on this community and in "the real world."

Outstanding. I hope you hang around this site and post more. Your quality of writing is what we hope to see from our poolees.

Thanks for taking down the pic. Respect given is respect earned.

[rvillac2]

Jcam poser?

but he IS in the Marine Corps.Not sure of his rank though.I know that the account he was using was not his but a friend of his,why he was using his friends account i am not sure of.

He used another Marine's name to create an account so he could reply to posts. He admits to having been already banned from the site due to previous posts. His credibility is for sh!t.

[Marine84]

Thanks Ub.

[Echo_Four_Bravo]

I'm sorry Marines, but I think every single one of you is dead wrong. There is nothing wrong with owning, using, or holding a firearm. Putting an "evil" bayonet on the end means nothing at all. The Second Amendment is every bit as important as every other part of our bill of rights. The right to keep and bear arms is every bit as important of a civil right as the right to a free press or the right against unreasonable searches.

In effect, you are telling this American that his choice to take a picture while holding a rifle is somehow wrong or sends the wrong message. I didn't say anything, but I was offended by the comment that created this thread. It didn't look like a day of tragedy to me. A responsible person with a firearm doesn't lead to mass killings. Disarming people and forcing them to live as sheep in a world of wolves is what leads to the horrible things we see.

UB, I suppose you made the right decision since so many here wanted you to do so. But, there wasn't anything wrong with the picture- don't let anyone convince you that there was- no matter what title they may hold.

[Marine84]

I don't think there's anything wrong with owning one, shooting one or having a pic made with one either but then again I'm not a 17 year old young man trying to get advice from a bunch of old (er) a$$ Marines and posting a "cool" pic of myself looking like one of the thugs that Jackie Chan and Chris Tucker are always fighting.

He seems to be educated, he should portray himself as such. If he doesn't want to be stereotyped, he shouldn't come off as such in a pic. I just hope he's educated enough to follow gun laws in his state. I know that I respect him more and will take him more seriously because he saw the point and took it down.

Take my pic, for instance. When you look at my pic, the first thing you probably think of is "damn, she looks sweet" - don't be fooled my friends ;) I'm a B!TCH.................

[sparkie]

I've seen your pics,,, Always wondered about conceled weapons. ;]

[Marine84]

I've seen your pics,,, Always wondered about conceled weapons. ;]

LOL!:p

[thewookie]

I'm sorry Marines, but I think every single one of you is dead wrong. There is nothing wrong with owning, using, or holding a firearm. Putting an "evil" bayonet on the end means nothing at all. The Second Amendment is every bit as important as every other part of our bill of rights. The right to keep and bear arms is every bit as important of a civil right as the right to a free press or the right against unreasonable searches.

In effect, you are telling this American that his choice to take a picture while holding a rifle is somehow wrong or sends the wrong message. I didn't say anything, but I was offended by the comment that created this thread. It didn't look like a day of tragedy to me. A responsible person with a firearm doesn't lead to mass killings. Disarming people and forcing them to live as sheep in a world of wolves is what leads to the horrible things we see.

UB, I suppose you made the right decision since so many here wanted you to do so. But, there wasn't anything wrong with the picture- don't let anyone convince you that there was- no matter what title they may hold.

You know I do agree with most of what your saying and the intent. And it's okay if we disagree on the rest. I think in today's society, with the problems that we've had with these mass murdering chumps. And we've all seen the tough guy photo's the investigators find after they're done, having blown themselves away like big pvssies. So I think we/you need to be more aware and concerned with perception. 10 years ago, 5 years ago that guy, Mike wouldn't have bothered a soul with that photo. Not now, now we have to be more aware of any situation that seems too extreme, or doesn't smell right. As a Marine Sergeant, ( I hate to put former before it but I'm not on active duty) I feel its my duty to let that guy know that picture isn't acceptable to me, primarily because of perception in today's society. It's not really that the picture is soo bad, I have worse. And I never told him not to bear arms, in fact I told him how to deliver a better blow, or fined tuned his mechanics. Admittedly, this was before I saw the photo. But it's no way shape or form about his rights. It's about the perception of the picture, like it or not. The perception that young males who portray themselves in a military or otherwise rebellious manner, with weapons, weapons like he has, are or could be violent someday. Is that a fair perception? Might not be, but fair doesn't save lives, prudence does. I never told him to throw away his arms, nor did anyone else, I would never.

I think it's very good, a good sign of how Marines are that we would find that picture offensive, or disturbing. We have our honor to uphold, and if that guy is whacko, and we have knowingly guided him, then what are we? You just can't chance it anymore, he has every right to bear arms, if it's done legally, but we also have our right to perceive his photo's as offensive, disturbing, and troubling. But who knows, maybe the guy had a beer and laughed the whole time except for when the shot from the camera was fired? But that wasn't the way I saw it and I figured I'd be honest and let him know what I was perceiving. It's all good.

Semper Fi

[rvillac2]

I'm sorry Marines, but I think every single one of you is dead wrong. There is nothing wrong with owning, using, or holding a firearm. Putting an "evil" bayonet on the end means nothing at all. The Second Amendment is every bit as important as every other part of our bill of rights. The right to keep and bear arms is every bit as important of a civil right as the right to a free press or the right against unreasonable searches.

In effect, you are telling this American that his choice to take a picture while holding a rifle is somehow wrong or sends the wrong message. I didn't say anything, but I was offended by the comment that created this thread. It didn't look like a day of tragedy to me. A responsible person with a firearm doesn't lead to mass killings. Disarming people and forcing them to live as sheep in a world of wolves is what leads to the horrible things we see.

UB, I suppose you made the right decision since so many here wanted you to do so. But, there wasn't anything wrong with the picture- don't let anyone convince you that there was- no matter what title they may hold.

E4B, We don't disagree (except for where you call us wrong:) ). His choice to take the picture is separate from his choice to post it on his profile. We've asked guys with pictures of themselves flipping off the camera to change their pictures. I don't see this as different.

I do regret making the CNN comment now that I realize that Michael could have perceived it as a shot about his ethnicity. I certainly didn't mean it, and as the saying goes..."I resemble that remark."

Lastly, don't think that us Californians don't appreciate the 2nd ammendment and the impact of the liberals that run our legislature. Michael and I live in the most gun regulated state in the universe. I would gladly post his picture next to a similar one of my own in another forum in another context. (Heck, I'd take one with him!) ha ha.

E4B, I'm glad you supported him. I posted his PM because he stood up for himself and did so in a diplomatic manner. I continue to respect his opinion and yours.

[jetdoc]

E4B, I am leaning towards agreeing with you on this...I jumped in here late and didn't see the pic, so its hard to say if it was "offensive" to me....but I'm a big pro-gun guy. We all know who the biggest gun control advocate in the history of the world was, right?.......Hitler. He may have even been more gun control than those wacko's that run your state my bro Renato, hahaha.

BTW, my state, Maryland, is pretty tough on weapons as well. Not as bad as Cali and some other states, but they do make it difficult to purchase a firearm at times.

[Cwalling]

try living in massachussets! everything is illegal here,fireworks,butterfly knives,switchblades,automatic weapons...i hear paintball and airsoft are next hahaha.

thank you for deleting my post,it had nothing to do with this topic and my opinions on the subject of Jcam don't matter even if they do disagree with the majority.

[Echo_Four_Bravo]

rvillac, this is about as different from flipping off the camera as you can get. Flipping off a camera is a sign of disrespect or youthful arrogance that doesn't fit with the ideals of our Corps. Holding a firearm is a person exercising a fundamental right guranteed by our Constitution.

I am reacting because we are allowing the anti-gun mentality to enter into our thought process here. We're following the liberal line of "guns are inappropriate for polite society" and that enrages me. Standing in a picture with a gun is no different than standing for a picture while holding the Bible or a copy of the local newspaper. Yet, we're acting as if it is somehow wrong.

[jetdoc]

Clayton, when you mentioned the subject of Jcam above, were you referring to the thread that his poser started on busting the myth of the Marines being the elite of the Military?

[Cwalling]

wow everyone is really heated about this aren't they?

I DO NOT AGREE with or condone ANYTHING he may or may not have said concerning the Marine Corps or any members on this board.My post that was deleted simply said i did not agree with rvillacs signature as the Marine using Jcams account has been,and is being VERY helpful to this poolees quest to gain weight and fulfill his quest of becoming a United States Marine! Therefor I personally do not consider him a waste of sperm,air or any other life sustaining substance/element ok?

sorry if i seem angry but i have gotten multiple PM,s about my previous post and am being accused of "siding with" him or agreeing with his comments/views.

[Echo_Four_Bravo]

Wow, you have a little bit of an attitude. The individual that you claim has been a great help is a disgrace to every Marine on this site. If you want that kind of help, I don't know what else to say.

[Cwalling]

So since he was banned I should refuse his help now? Other Marines on this site have given me tips,but he took it a step further and has really helped me by constructing a plan for me,and it is really improving my weight and muscle strength.

Like I said,i apologize for the attitude but I've gotten multiple PM's about him what am I his secretary? He'se been banned so can we just drop it?

[jetdoc]

It was dropped till YOU brought it back up again.

[Cwalling]

fair enough,I will never bring it up again,everyone who Pm'ed me I won't be replying.

[jetdoc]

Cool, now what was this thread about???? Oh yea, firearms?? Gun Control?

[sparkie]

Just a little note,,, Gun control,,,, A kid growing up with guns has never been a High School,[or college] shooter. In stead they have all been on Ridilen {sp]. I really hate it, but maybe gun control is in order, for those growing up with only a mom, and no guns. All kids who hunted deer in Colorado, or wherever with his dad is no risk.Those without never learned responsibility, or Consequences. A sad day, The Gov. is not ruining it,,,we are. I hunted by 9 or 10. My Dad and I always swapped hunting stories. After dinner, When we were a family.

[Echo_Four_Bravo]

Let's see, I grew up with a single mom and have not, and will not, spend a single day hunting. I shouldn't be allowed to own weapons? For some reason my civil rights don't apply?

Think about what you just said, but change it to freedom of religion. "If you don't grow up just like sparkie did, the government decided if you can go to church, how often you can go, and what you can do while you're there." Doesn't really work does it? Yet, you said it about guns, which are just as protected, and didn't even think twice. That's what is wrong with this whole conversation.

[Echo_Four_Bravo]

fair enough,I will never bring it up again,everyone who Pm'ed me I won't be replying.

That's fine, but don't be surprised when we quit answering your questions. If you can't be bothered by taking a minute to explain yourself without acting like an idiot, I can't be bothered to help you.

[sparkie]

I hate Gov. control of anything. I was just speaking of recent history,Dip.May you always have the right to keep and bear arms. I see problems on the horizion, and even now. Just expressed a possible thought on society. You wanna lighten up or what? Enjoy your apples and oranges.
Did you grow up knowing consequences? Most now don't.

[rvillac2]

I am reacting because we are allowing the anti-gun mentality to enter into our thought process here. We're following the liberal line of "guns are inappropriate for polite society" and that enrages me. Standing in a picture with a gun is no different than standing for a picture while holding the Bible or a copy of the local newspaper. Yet, we're acting as if it is somehow wrong.

What disturbs me is that I think you're right. Recent events and frustrations have shaped my current way of thinking. Perhaps, I've spent too much time here on the Left Coast. I still firmly believe that a well-trained and armed individual in the right place and time could prevent tragedies.

I am still uneasy about having that particular picture in a poolee's profile. However, if the moderator's don't object to it, I won't be giving Michael a hard time about it. I would prefer it within his gallery.

[rvillac2]

Cool, now what was this thread about???? Oh yea, firearms?? Gun Control?

Actually, it was about how a poolee disagreed with something I said and replied to me in an articulate and diplomatic manner. I appreciated it and wanted to put him out there as an example.

[thewookie]

Actually, it was about how a poolee disagreed with something I said and replied to me in an articulate and diplomatic manner. I appreciated it and wanted to put him out there as an example.

I agree, no part of the post from me or any of them that I read had anything to do with gun control. The guy was standing there fixed bayonets in black leather and that whole set up? It was more about sensibility and if and when you see the picture then you could/can form your own opinions. But it wasn't about gun control let's get past that please.

I think as previously alluded to, if VA Tech was say,, Texas Tech, then we wouldn't talk about the same outcome and death count. In fact I doubt something like that will ever happen at Texas Tech. I have no problems with a man's/woman's ability or right to bear arms, assuming it's done in accordance with the laws. Thugs, punks, and criminals are the problem, law abiding citizen's are not.

Now I have to go have breakfast with Charlton Heston, ;)