Question On Joining the Marine Corps

[Donkon]

Hello,

I am currently a 17 year old Canadian citizen. I always wanted to become a US Marine. I first got interested in the Marines when i was 8 years old. With my fascination for them i used to walk around in my full army cloths everday and be proud:) thinking that i was a Marine. I started working out very hard everyday preparing myself for the US Marines, i run, do pushups, situps, pullups and sooo on. My mission in life is to become a Marine. I will do anything to get there. Some people laugh at me when i say that including my parents so i will show everyone what i am made of..

My main problem is that I am a Canadian citizen that came to Canada at age 4 from Poland. . I know I have to have a American citizenship to join. I was wondering if I could join the Marine Corps full time if i get a green card?? Also a while ago I heard about some Canadian who graduated from the Marine Corps.. Anyone hear of him?? Or knows how he did it??.. I tried contacting the Marine Corps through e-mail but I cant find a direct e-mail to the recruiters.

Anyway I would appreciate any help I can get. This is my dream to become a Marine in my life. I told my parents, but my parents dont support me. They want me to get some office job where you sit on your ass all day.

Please help me, also I know you might tell me to join the Canadian Army, but the thing is I dont want to use a slingshot and drive a motoriksha (the 3 wheeled car) all day.:D

Thx

[Barrio_rat]

As far as I know, you do not need to be a citizen of the US to be in the US military but I do believe you need to be a resident. Though, with the close ties and some of the treaties that the US and Canada have, you may be able to join from there. There are others in here who can give you much better advice. You can also go to the Marine Corps site as they may have some of that information for you.

http://www.marines.com

[Sgt Sostand]

Canadian citizen one Question are you french

[Donkon]

ah no, i was born in Poland and moved to Canada when i was 4. On marines.com it says they cant send me info because you have to be a us citizen to join....

Anyway please help me out this is really important to me

[Sgt Sostand]

ok you can e-mail me at sostand@swbell.net ill be glad to help you

[SHOOTER1]

Way to go Sarge, we git all the good Canadians to join the Corps, thats why thier services are going down hill,the good ones want to join ours.:banana:

[Donkon]

Thx alot Sostand. I e-mailed you.

[Donkon]

Can anyone else give me some info??? Please this is very important to me

[SheWolf]

Originally posted by Donkon
Can anyone else give me some info??? Please this is very important to me

how close are you to an American border??/
come on over and visit a recruiters office

[Donkon]

about 2 hours or less from the Border. I cant during the week. I am at school.

[firstsgtmike]

Recruiter's work on Saturday. To be safe, call ahead and make an appointment.

Sometimes you have to get off your butt and do things for yourself.

I like steak, but the last time I was spoon-fed, I had to eat Pablum.

[Donkon]

Problem is i cant get a ride there. Also is the 1800 Marines number toll free for Canadians??? I dont want to call and spend 1 dollar a min

[Sgt Sostand]

i dont know if it free from Canada

[Donkon]

Anyone got any more info for me?? Or an e-mail directly to a recruiter??

[Sgt Sostand]

Originally posted by Donkon
Anyone got any more info for me?? Or an e-mail directly to a recruiter??

go to them main rrecurter web sight i gave you and send them e-mail go here

http://www.marines.com/request/contact_recruiter_request.asp?benefit=Courage%2C+P oise+and+Self%2DConfidence&format=flash


Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem."
-President Ronald Reagan, 1985

[Donkon]

When i try to fill it out, it says that i am not a us citizen and that i can't complete the form. I need a e-mail address that is typed so i can type it in into hotmail and send it.

[wrbones]

Only email I know of is to the RSS in Louisiana. I looked last night when I was on another search.


BTW. if ya don't get offa yer butt and start doin' some stuff fer yerself....the Marine Corps doesn't need ya.

[dikatry]

What part of canada are you in? If your in BC I have the emails of some recruiters in Washington

[Gerald H Martin]

Donkon:

It's time to get off your ass, stop whinning and make it happen. If you want it as bad as you say then make it happen. Whinning about paying a dollar a minute and not being able to cross the border due to school is not in my eyes displaying the determination that is required.

Show some damn initiative! After all, you are trying to become a "MARINE".

[wrbones]

there are stamps and envelopes and paper to write on, aren't there. The addys are posted on any internet search of Marine Corps recruiting stations. Might even be a number to fax them if yer inna hurry.

Sgt Sostand and others have been more than helpful, here. It's time to motivate yerself and just do it.


In addition, if you look around the POOL-ee forum, you'll find email addys for active duty recruiters posted for your convenience.

You might have to go back to the beginning of the forum to find them.

[Donkon]

I cant get of my butt, i have to be at school from 8:00 am to 6:40 pm. I have to graduate. ANyway i cant find a fax number on www.marines.com or www.usmc.mil ..

I am from Ontario wrbones

thx

[Donkon]

Ok thx guys.....

[Donkon]

Ah also is there a recruiter in Buffalo or Newyork???.

Cause thats the closest to the border for me.

[ktriplett]

There most definitely is a recruiter in Buffalo and New York. Grab a phone book and pick one.

US Marine Corps Recruiting
111 W Huron St
Buffalo, NY
716-551-4921

US Marine Corps Recruiting
3906 Seneca St
West Seneca, NY
716-674-5731

US Marine Corps Recruiting
32 Main St
Hamburg, NY
716-648-6600

US Marine Corps Recruiting
2490 Military Rd
Niagara Falls, NY
716-298-4610

US Marine Corps Recruiting
21 Main St
Lockport, NY
716-434-2271

US Marine Corps Recruiting
1 Beekman St # 2
New York, NY
212-964-5980

US Marine Corps Recruiting
Broadway & 43rd
New York, NY
212-575-0565

US Marine Corps Recruiting
166 W 46th St
New York, NY
212-265-6719

Are 1-800 numbers toll free in Canada? If so, 1-800-MARINES will be toll free for you.

A two minute search on Mapquest.com got me that information, and I just woke up so I'm still groggy. If it were any easier, a recruiter would be giving me breakfast in bed. I admire your desire to join the Marines, but I think you could work a little harder to find the info that you need. People around here are willing to help, but only if you're willing to work.

[RoboRobinson17]

Now see, THAT'S INITIATIVE!!

[03Infantry]

Nice Initiative Ktriplett!!!!

[Mikky]

I am a recruiter in Texas. What you need to do is graduate high school, be 18 years old, and get your resident alien card. From there, you can take the ASVAB, physical, and swear in....along with a bunch of paperwork. You are looking at 2 years at least to do all of the prerequisites.


Mikky

[Sixguns]

You are a dual citizen. If you are the child of a U.S. citizen who resides in Canada, you can be considered for enlistment. Other means is to prove you are a North American Indian whose tribal home is split in U.S. and Canadian territory. Sound confusing???

[Sixguns]

www.Marines.com didn't work for you because the "business rules" we have in place there screen out the unqualified prospects. Not being a citizen or immigrant resident alien makes you unqualified for Marine Corps service. Web sites don't traditionally give fax numbers, but if you send a message to the webmaster or use the "contact us" button on most sites, your quesions do get answered.

[Donkon]

Alright thx guys... Yeah i just got my answer from www.marines.com and they told me exactly what i need to get.

Thx for you help all.

i really appreciate it.

[Sixguns]

Imagine that??!!! Glad to know the money spent on our award-winning web site provides vauable information and answers to questions. Guess you could get answers here too. Happy the research paid off for you.

[milkcow38]

Hello,
I'm a Mom with 4 sons, My oldest is almost 14 and has started talking about joining the Marines some day soon.... I have been reading you sight with hopes of getting an understanding of what the Corp is about....Could any of you tell me what Poolee stands for?
What books would you recommend a young boy to start reading?
What can I do to help him to better ready himself for the Marines?
He is wanting to join when he turns 17 (that seems so young...)
Should I guide him to get some collage credits before joining?
Will the Corp except credits earned on line or will he have to attend a community collage or University?
He has been homeschooled all his life...
He is wanting to go to The Marine Corps Acad. in Texas for his last two years of high school but, I just don't see that we could ever afford it...the cost is 21,000.00 a year! he is going to start saving his money and do a few fund raisers and try and send himself to the 4 week Marine camp for boys, next summer....We learned about it to late to send him this year.
The cost for this stuff is very high! (3,000) so you have to plan ahead...
Thank you for any advice that will help me to guide my son in the right direction. I'm very proud of him for wanting to be a part of something as great as the Marines!
His father feels the same way!
A very proud mom. Mrs B.

[JChristin]

Mrs. B

I am so proud that a mother would take the time to join this forum to gain exposure to the Marine Corps. When I joined the Marine Corps, before the internet, my mom went to the library and checked out every book concerning the Marine Corps. I was 24 years old then too! I think she was checking to make sure there were women Marines and that I wasn't pulling a fast one on her.

Addtionally, I also feel it is fantastic that your son has high goal to reach so young. Today, I have two teenage sons, and they each talk about becoming a Marine. It is a high ideal to reach for and to earn. It isn't for the faint of heart. I have counsel both my sons to read everything they can, to do their individual research, to talk to people, their freinds, school counselors, relatives, and of course, active Marines. Being a Marine - I want them too! As their mother - I want to be sure that they are not doing this to be like mom. So, I stay away from trying to guide them towards this goal. But of course, I don't talk them away from it neither. It must come from deep within themselves. Otherwise, there may be regret later.

There are many scholarships available from a number of sources. For camp, fund raising may be an option. It will also be a way for your son to demonstrate his eagerness and sincerity towards reaching the goal of becoming a Marine.

Good luck Mrs. B

semper fi,
jchristin

[top1371]

Please get in touch with your local recruiter.

In the past, home school was equal to a GED. There are not many GED openings for enlistment.

The other option is 18 college credits from a accredited college. The recruiter should be able to get his hands on the book of accepted accredited schools. 18 college credits is equal to a HS Diploma.

Good Luck!

Top

[mrbsox]

Mrs. B.

Your gonna get several comments in here because you, and son, have struck a nerve that is very near and dear to our hearts. We want only the best for our Corps, as I am sure you want only the best for your children. So, my 2 cents worth :D

I do not know how 'shielding' you feel you need to be, when exposing your children to new things, environments, people, and such. The fact that you home school is of mild concern to me, because I have met remarkable people that were home schooled, as well as a few, shall we say under achievers. I personally admire the commitment it takes to home school, but I'm drifting from my 2 cents worth.

Check out the site here, with special attention to the "POOLEE" and "MARINE MENTOR" areas. It'll take awhile to get through it all. but the information abounds for the young'uns. At the time of your choosing, I recommend that you allow your son to join the site, and gain first hand knowledge, from Marines. Visit other sites too, 'see the world', as it were.

We are a diversified bunch in here, some with paitence, some without. Some are easy going, some firm, some down right crass and gruff..... as the CORPS can be. If he is timid, shy, and overly bashful, he may find the Marines not to his liking, or he may find a way to excell. As was mentioned before, HE must find it in himself to WANT it. It has to be in his heart, and soul, to be driven to the next level. And the next, and next...

Once again, as from others, Good Luck.

Terry

[22DevilPup87]

I'd like to take a moment to commend you (for being such a great mom and supporting your son) and your son (for striving to be the best).

I, too, am a homeschooled high-school student. (I go to the Christa McAuliffe Academy, an accreditted internet based program.) I believe that homeschooling has shown me and the world who and what I am. Without outside guidance I've taken it upon myself to graduate next year after only three years of high school. Your son, without the outside influence of a traditional school setting, has decided that he's going to give it everything he's got to be one of the best ... pretty amazing.

I'd quickly like to point out that as long as your son is conducting his schooling with an accreditted program it shouldn't hold him back. Just last Wednesday I received an acceptance letter to the Naval Academy Summer Seminar (NASS). At the time of application I hadn't taken my SATs yet so they must have based their decision to accept me on my GPA, class standing, extra-curricular activities and letters of recommendation. (They never asked for letters of recommend but I didn't think it'd hurt to send them in along with a well-written cover letter.)

Supporting your son is the best thing you can do for him. He'll figure out what he needs to do to get where it is he wants to be. Anyone with a desire and motivation usually does. However, it's always nice to have a cheerleader. My parents objected to me being in the military, especially the Marine Corps, until last week when I got accepted to NASS. It wasn't until two weeks ago that they permitted me to meet my local recruiter to get information on an NROTC Marine Option scholarship. Even then they met me with a great deal of resistance. With as tough as it is to keep up good grades in school and train for my chance at becoming a Marine, living with unsupportive people didn't make life any easier. What I'm getting at here is just be supportive. I wouldn't suggest doing things for him. Instead, see how much he really wants this. Let him find the information and make the arrangements on his own. Just help him fulfill it all. That's what my parents have just started to do. I found out about NASS all on my own. I applied on my own. My parents are being a tremendous help by making sure I have the exercise equipment I need. (On Friday we got a pull-up bar and my dad helped me to install it ... now all I need are stress balls to help strengthen my grip.) They make sure I get to the gym at least once a day. (I don't turn 16 until next month so I can't drive alone yet.) They've agreed to split the cost of NASS with me and make sure I arrive there on time. They're giving me true support... I took the initiative but they're making it possible for me to follow through.

... it looks like I went on a rambling spree. Just in case your son hasn't thanked you for being such a great mom I wanted to do it for him.

I better get back to work.

Best wishes,
Jess

[mrbsox]

Mrs. B.

In my rambling earlier, I also forgot to answer your question, "what is a Poolee".

While I don't have a specific definition, 'POOLEE' is a slang term, such as 'wannbe', 'new-bee'.

While not specifically meant to be derogotory (sorry about spelling), it designates one whom has NOT earned the title "MARINE", (a title that is sacred to us), but also not entered into recruit training as yet. A civilian in waiting, an outside influence.

Some of us look after them, some of us ignore them. As I mentioned earlier, we are a diverse bunch in here.

Anybody else got a better definition ??? Jump in here.

Terry

[mrbsox]

Found something:

Poolee.
An unofficial rank assigned by Marine recruiters to newly enlisted recruits in the delayed entry program and awaiting depatrure to recruit training. Some recruiters have regular, mandatory, formations in which rudimentary drill and physical training are conducted.

Terry

[22DevilPup87]

I think you've got the term POOL-ee well-defined, mrbsox.

For now we're civilian wannabes ...

[milkcow38]

Hello again,
Thanks to everyone for all the help and advice....
Jess, you sound like a young man that any mom would be proud to call her son. Keep up the great work, I can't think of anything that makes us moms and dads happier than seeing our children self motivated! Thank you also for the information about the accredited on line school. I will look into it for the next school year.
Mr. Top, thank you also, I will check with the recruiter about the GED and college credit information as you suggested....
One more question, is poolee an acronym for something?
Mrs B.

[wrbones]

Just an fyi :D

Jess be a young lady! ;) and she be doin' us proud, too!

[thedrifter]

That's my Girl.........Jess.........

The Drifter

[wrbones]

POOL-ee means that the individual has met with a recruiter, signed the paperwork and made an official committment to going to recruit training.

[JChristin]

Originally posted by 22DevilPup87
I'd like to take a moment to commend you (for being such a great mom and supporting your son) and your son (for striving to be the best).

Supporting your son is the best thing you can do for him. Let him find the information and make the arrangements on his own. Just help him fulfill it all. That's what my parents have just started to do. ... it looks like I went on a rambling spree. Just in case your son hasn't thanked you for being such a great mom I wanted to do it for him.

Jess

Jess,

You have the making of a fine female Marine Officer. Your ability to compose and execute this wonderfully supportive letter is a demonstration of your abilities to reach for the gold ring. It appears you have the fine inner character strengths that can be shaped and wovened into a leader of ability, courage, and strength. If I can be of any service, please contact me.

semper fi,
jchristin

[Echo_Four_Bravo]

I've been lurking here for a while, but never posted. I figured now is as good a time as any, so here is my first official post. Mrs. B, you seem to be doing exactly what you need to be doing. Gaining information for yourself and your son is vital. I know it would've been better if I would have followed that tactic when I enlisted. Instead, I just surprised everyone, telling them that I had done it. That was fine for me, but not right for my family. I knew what I was getting into, they did not. None of my parent's friends had children that opted to enlist in the military, and they did not really have a good grasp of what it meant to be a Marine. It took several months or years for them to gain the knowledge that you will have before your son ever raises his hand to take the oath. I would like to tell you that this web site is a supurb tool to use. The men and women that run this board are well versed and know their business. Best of luck to both of you on a very rewarding future for your son.

Jimmy

[wrbones]

Thanks E-4-B and welcome aboard! Glad to have ya!

Semper Fidelis, Marine.

Find a rack and grab a footlocker! Welcome Home.

[thedrifter]

Echo_Four_Bravo

Welcome Aboard to the Best Marine Site on the net. Also welcome to your home away from home................
We have a great crew of Marines in here from WW II to the present............
Throw your sea bag in a corner, pull up a footlocker, sit and chat awhile.........

"AGAIN WELCOME ABOARD."

Sempers,

Roger

[22DevilPup87]

Mrs. B.,
I PMed you with information about the Christa McAuliffe Academy. It's really a great program. It's tough (they make you take a course over and over until you get an 80 or better - you learn real quick to do well the first time around) but it's a great school. I'll even be going to Yakima, WA, where the school is based, to graduate and meet my mentor, principal, and some fellow students. (Flying out to Yakima is by no means a requirement. My parents have decided to make my graduation a family vacation as that'll be the last vacation we'll take as a family.)

Jess

[milkcow38]

Jess,
My 4th son is named Jesse, I guess that's why I just made the assumption that you were of the male gender....I'm very sorry.
It took me 13 years of trying and 4 boys before I had my first little girl, she is 20 months old now, I want you to know that I would love for her to turn out to be as well versed and articulate as you are.
You should show these posts to your mother she would be very proud.
I agree with jchristin you have the makings of a good leader.
Thank you again, Mrs. B.

[Sixguns]

Slow down folks. There is an educational tier system in the enlistment process. Our Corps is, and needs to be 95% tier I (one). What is a Tier I? A traditional high school graduate who achieved all the required credits, attendance and grades to be issued a High School Diploma from a full-time, day school program that encompasses the same classroom criteria mandated/required by the State Department of Education. Home schooling technically falls into the Tier 2 category. I am not here to debate whether it is just as good or better than traditional education programs, but the Corps classifies GEDs, non-attendance based Diplomas, correspondence education credentials and home schools to be Tier 2 education. Here in lies the difficulty. Tier IIs generally have to score higher on the ASVAB to gain enlistment. Additionally, they may require a waiver to gain clearance to enlist. Don't get me going on Tier IIIs. But to keep it simple, if you never attended a day of high school in your life, and then went to an accredited state college or university, took 15 credits (full semester), passed all your classes, you would then be seen as a Tier I. Sound bazaar? So, Mrs. B., please get your son enrolled in college classes to improve his enlistment eligibility. The only stipulation is the course must be college level, not college prep (usually course in the catalogue numbered 101 or higher are college level work). They can be course in any subject area as long as they are deemed college level. I hope you are not confused or baffled now.

[22DevilPup87]

Sixguns brings up a very valid point.

CMA is one of the few "homeschooling" routes in which your diploma is equal to that of one issued by your local high school.

I recently checked on this with my recruiter. A diploma from CMA is a Teir I diploma. The reason it's like that is because it's technically a private school, not a "home school". The state of Washington recognizes Christa McAuliffe as an accreditted school. In order to do that Washington must agree that CMA means all the requirements of the State Department of Education has set. It uses many loopholes but it's all legal. In fact, because CMA has everything a school has (like a school code for the SAT/ACT) you never have to tell anyone you have virtual classroom meetings and not physical classroom meetings.

(Is that all correct, Sixguns? This is what I was told by my school mentor who's helped several students enlist in the Army, Navy, Air Force, and Coast Guard [no Marines yet ...] and my recruiter. My recruiter knows I have no intention of entering as an enlisted Marine so I don't think he has any reason to deceive me, but there's always a chance I misunderstood something.)

In no way am I saying you should enroll your son in CMA. Taking college courses is another way to get into the Corps.

[Sixguns]

You got most of what I was saying correctly. Drop me a PM when you read this.

[22DevilPup87]

... it looks like I could be wrong about this. Unless Sixguns gives the good-to-go assume I'm incorrect.

I apologize for any confusion.

[milkcow38]

It's a good thing I started checking on this now....He might have been very disappointed in 3 or 4 years to find out the Diploma he worked so hard to earn would not get him into the corp.
Thanks for the heads up! Mrs. B.

[Patrick8605]

I'm homeschooled, so that makes me a Tier 2 right?

[22DevilPup87]

I wish I had an answer for ya but at this rate it looks like you're better off waiting for Sixguns or another recruiter to answer that for ya.

I was originally told by my recruiter that as long as I ended up with an accreditted diploma I'd be good to go if I ever decided to enlist. Quite obviously I misunderstood something.

... I'm so confused ...

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but from what I understand now, enlisting as a Teir I requires:
You physically attended an accreditted high school. (Meaning you were physically in the building.)

AND/OR

You have 18 credits from an accreditted college.

[Sixguns]

Too answer it simply... YES

[Sixguns]

Patrick8605,

I guess the same answer applies to you too!!

Remember a Tier II is not of consequence to the future Marine as far as MOS choices etc. It is merely a quality standard the Corps has established as a benchmark. In the eyes of the policy makers, if the Marine Corps largely consisted of Tier IIs we may not be viewed in the brightest of lights. The standard was actually designed to promote staying in school (traditional institutions) and earning a diploma. It is also believed that this completion of four years of daily studies, testing and academic instruction is an indicator of individual success and adaptability to Marine Corps service. Whether you believe the position or not, that is why it is there.

Just to let you know, I was told of a case of home schooling today where the inividual scored a 99 AFQT (ASVAB score) and his lowest line score (MOS qualifying score) was a 131!!!! Oh by the way he also has an Airframes and Powerplants License. Do you think he would be a quality accession for the Marine Corps??? I do. But, hey, I don't make the rules, I just ask for waivers to enlist the exceptions to the rules.

[22DevilPup87]

Ahh, okay ... I understand.

I guess CMA would qualify as Teir II because you're not physically in a school building for 6 hours a day ... but what if someone got seriously ill his/her senior year and was tutored at home by the state? In that case would that count as being homeschooled, and therefore you'd be Teir II?

... so screwy.

[Sixguns]

Well, now it is getting tricky!!! LOL

If the teacher was a faculty memeber or teacher from the school and who had met all the same criteria as the other teachers in school, and do to the medical reasons had to teach in the students home, and the student would get the same HS Diploma everyone else in the school gets...... Well, that's why we have waivers!!!! LOL. This seems like an unusal case and seems worthy of consideration for Tier I status.

Of course, who cares about the educational status, you may be disqualified from joining based on this medical injury that has kept you at home and away from physically attending school.

[thedrifter]

Sixguns.....

I told you have to watch out for 22DevilPup87.....

She is always keeping us on our toes.....LOL...;)

Sempers,

Roger

[22DevilPup87]

*giggles* It was an honest question. I'm trying to figure out how all this stuff works.

Now this brings up another question ...
CMA does actually have a real school, I just use their internet based program because Reisterstown is roughly 2,800 miles away from Yakima and that'd be a long commute everyday. LOL. However, I'll end up with the same diploma that the students get when they attend the school. Unless I were to say something or someone were to check into my student records no one would know that I never stepped foot into a classroom by looking at my diploma. My mentor (what we call our teacher) is an employee of the school and does teach there.

Enlisting is such a weird process. ... granted, I wouldn't know since I haven't done it, but from the outside it looks strange.

[Sixguns]

Hello!!!!

We're the government... Of course we check!! How will you explain in your security questionaire that you lived in Maryland but graduated school in Washington state at the same time? Or what about when they go to get your verification on your education (a form or double checking your credentials) and we have to go to a school in Washington state, a place you never lived?? Oh you can try to say this or say that, but the bottom line is the truth will come out. In fact, we have this neat little activity down at MCRD call "The Moment of Truth." I can't tell you everything about it because I am sworn to secrecy, but you would be amazed what we find out when your FBI background check is in front of a screener and he begins asking you some pretty yough questions. Or what people remember when "Fraudulent Enlistment fines and penalties" are briefed to new recruits who are already scared and hundreds of mile away from mom and dad ant the recruiter who said "don't say anthing" or "they'll never find out." You don't want to be the one who gets caught. So, play it safe. Be honest, get the waiver and move on with your integrity in tact.

[JChristin]

22DevilPup87: <br />
<br />
It is best in the long term, that you do not attempt to &quot;pull&quot; any scams. Even if, and I use that term loosely, something of a fraudulent nature is not discovered during initial...

[firstsgtmike]

Memory for detils fades 45 years years out of bootcamp but I do remember a name and a face. He was to be the Platoon Honorman. The week before graduation he was fitted for his Dress Blues with a PFC stripe.

Three days later, he was no longer in the platoon. His buddy later told me that he saw him when he was home on boot leave. The contender for Series Honor Man was once again a civilian, because of something that was found out about his past.

Sixguns said it. There is a waiver system so that deserving individual cases are not victimized by a catchall.

Others have addressed honor and integrity, so I won't repeat it.

But it's hell on earth living in a constant state of fear that you may be found out.

I'll tell you this, as much as I love my Marine Corps, it wouldn't be worth shaking every time your name was called, or wondering about a look you received from your Drill Instructor, or, in the field, your Platoon Sgt.

And with that constantly on your mind, you would never realize your full potential as a Marine, and there would be two losers, YOU and the Corps.

Lay it all out on the table up front. If a waiver is required, go for it. Boot camp is rough enough without you creating your own nightmares.

I'm sure Johnny Blake would tell you the same thing.

[22DevilPup87]

I totally agree with ya'll ... I'm not trying to find a way to do anything wrong. I've never considered lying to anyone. I told my recruiter and OSO about my schooling and had my mentor explain it in his letter of recommendation for me to NASS. Please don't think I'm even considering covering anything up - I'm not.

I'm just trying to figure out how this works and why.

To a degree I kind of understand it, but I still really don't ... that's what recruiters are there for. Sixguns, you've got one tough job.

[Patrick8605]

Does anyone in here know about Civil Air Patrol. If not its an Auxilary of the Air Force. I know its Air Force but its cool. I'm in it. Anyway...If I make officer in Civil Air Patrol I get E-3 out of Basic. Thats what I have been told by Air Force guys. My question is does that apply to the Marine Corps?

[firstsgtmike]

Patrick,

I don't know the answer to your question, but I'm sure that Sixguns will drop by to answer it.

You made a very telling comment, which points out the difference when you referred to :"the Air Force guys".

I've NEVER heard Marines referred to as "guys".

Think about it.

[stangfam6]

Hi Canuck, the first thing you should do is go to the nearest Consulate and get the appropiate paperwork to be a legal resident alien in the USA. Complete all the INS paperwork and explain to them why you want to be in the US. Once you have that taken care of you should have no problems legally with joining the Corps. I had about 10 legal aliens in my recruit training platoon and the touof duty also can help you become a full US citizen.
Goodluck and Godbless
George

[Patrick8605]

Originally posted by firstsgtmike
You made a very telling comment, which points out the difference when you referred to :"the Air Force guys".

I've NEVER heard Marines referred to as "guys".

Think about it.

Your absolutely right. The Marines, in my mind, are the best and deserve to be called by their rightfull title MARINE.

[Sixguns]

Anyway...If I make officer in Civil Air Patrol I get E-3 out of Basic. Thats what I have been told by Air Force guys. My question is does that apply to the Marine Corps?

Survey says........


NO!!!

Unlike the other services, the Marine Corps does not give rank away because you wore some type of uniform!! Well, we do, but the only guarantee is E-2, PFC. If you were JROTC, ROTC, CAP, Eagle Scout, Sea Cadets, Young Marine etc., you can earn PFC when you ship to training with proof of training/completion of these categories. However, you cannot combine them to earn additional stripes. Like, I was an Eagle Scout and had a year of college (a semester of college can also get you promoted to PFC) can't be used together to become a E-3/Lance Corporal. The only way to tack on another stripe is to get a meritorious promotion at recruit training. So, if you are guaranteed PFC for one of these other reasons, and in training, your DIs want to reward you with a meritorious promotion, you could gradae as a LCpl. I suggest if you want rank from the get-go, you join the AF!!!

Sixguns

[TheJester]

Sixguns,

Does that mean that if I finish Boot Camp as a squad leader (which I was told were meritoriously promoted to PFC) and I am guarenteed PFC when I enter PI, that I will be automatically promoted to Lance Corporal?

Thanks in advance.

[Roberto T. Cast]

I made PFC in boot camp and I was not the squad leader or anything else. I was just a plain recuite I just did what I was told. I guess the drills instructors saw something in me that I was not aware of. Anyway, this happen many moons ago. I went through boot camp back in 1965.:banana:

[Sixguns]

The SDI can meritoriously promote ten percent of his platoon, so if you graduate 50, five promotions get handed out. There are no guarantees on who or what billets will get them. Often, the guide and squadleedears do get them however don't count on it. I have known DIs when I was at MCRD that intentionally gave the meritorious promotions to folks not already guaranteed PFC. I also knew hats that would not give PFC stripes to a reserve Marine (they felt it was a waste to promote a guy who only wore a uniform once a month and wasn't going to do any fleet time).

I, myself, was a guaranteed PFC. I was scribe for quite a while and a squadleader for just about all of training. I never got the extra promotion. Seeing lance corporals graduate from MCRD is more common now than it once was, but they are still very rare.

SF,

[Roberto T. Cast]

Sixguns:

I guess that is the new corps. I wander how that came into being. I have also heard that the Army, whether true or not, that a married man with dependent will go into basic training as a one striper or two striper.
Maybe our Corps has become a little bit soft. I know that I am from the OLD CORPS and you had to earn every rank you were promoted to. There were no giveaways.

According to me, I was an E-4 for the longest time because there were no opening for my MOS. Just before my release from active duty, the Corps offer me E-5 if I would re-entlist. The six (6) reenistment variable was not enough for me to reenlist and I said **** NO. Back then, in 1969, I was making about $160.00 a month. I was recommended for E-5 about two (2) times, but there were no openings. And I said **** THE CORPS, but I still love it then and now. It's kind of funny now, but that was part of how you say, I love the Corps. Cussing the CORPS did not mean that you really hated the CORPS with all you might. and that did not mean you were disrespectful to the CORPS. It meant that you were proud to a U.S. Marine. I do not know if that is true today. But then again, that was many moons ago.:banana:

[immaproshooter]

hey Donkon, i am kinda new to this site and all, and am getting ready to sign up myself, but i think that you may want to try contacting sixguns, he is a very helpfull person, he has helped out alot of people on here........

[RoboRobinson17]

wrbones and drifter:
whatever happened to the rest of us shower shoes who read the threads from beginning to end? :banana:
(just kidding....)

[immaproshooter]

ya im sorry about that...i started to, and i entended on doing that,,,,then my mom distracted me and i had to go eat, when i came back i forgot what i was doing, and i just responded,,,,well it was to the first page, i forgot to read the other pages, sorry for that one.......next time i'll definately make sure there is no more before i respond to something

[RoboRobinson17]

hey no problem...just awhile ago it seemed like some poolees forgot how to read. The thing that really makes them hate us and not help, is when we don't put forth the effort to help ourselves. It's all here, we just have to use it. As I said, I remember the flak that the others caught; don't want it to happen to you. Come to think of it, haven't seen them for awhile....;)

[Sixguns]

You have mastered your lessons well!!!

[immaproshooter]

well...neways thanx for putting this stuff, cause otherwise i would have not even noticed that mistake, and i really am glad that i did

[Patrick8605]

I have a question.
What is the retention rate for the Marines? I got into a debate about why I wanted to be a Marine with my dad. Him (dad) being in the Air Force, he really doesn't want me to enlist because he says "Your gonna have a crappy life" and "Marine bases suck, why go there?" I've tried looking around the site for info but I couldn't find anything. If anyone could help me with some statitistics that would be great.

[Sixguns]

Hey Junior (Patrick8605),

Ask your dad if the Air Force is so great, why do they allow their folks to retire at E-5 with 20 years of service? In the Corps, no one would get past 13 years of service as an E-5, let alone retire with pay and benefits. It might also have to do with the fact that Air Force promotions are slow and because of that, they have some folks who will retire as E-5s. Marine Bases suck??? I guess he must want you to spend all your time on base then. I can tell you this, we have no bases in Minot, North Dakota or other such remote places. Yeah, life at an Air Force Missile silo or base must be real fun. All I will say is this. I was in Air Force JROTC in high school. We visited several AF Bases. I joined the Marines. Why? Because there are some things that are more important than the buildings and structures that make up the base. Somethings like pride, motivation and esprit de corps can only be found in an organization such as the Marines. No matter how nice the bases are, Marines are still Marines. The title and reputation is not inherent to a particular base or duty station. People stay in the Corps because the comradarie and people are professionals. How long was your dad in the AF? Why did he choose to leave it? Just as he made a decision or choice to leave, you must be able to make your own choices as to which branch to join. My dad was in the Army. I can tell you this. He talks more about his son the Marine than I ever heard him talk of his days in the Army.


SIXGUNS

[CplDawson]

Retintion rates are only as good as the Marine being retained. <br />
<br />
Marines are Marines I truely belive not one Marine was ever MADE if he was honorable discharged and served with heart and 100% pride...

[CplDawson]

Hey Robo you don't rate shower shoes till you get there!

:marine: "Dont let my cover hit the ground recruit!" :devious:

[firstsgtmike]

Air farce?

Three quick stories.

#1. 1960, me a PFC, part of a Marine Detachment at the Winter Olympics at Squaw Valley. Billeted at Stead AFB in Reno. On mess duty for one week. The NCOIC of our ten man detail was a Marine LCPL (e-3). I was told to take a g.i. can of wet slops out to the garbage shed. I was assisted by an air farce fella who was also on mess duty, he was a Master Sgt. (e-8).

I think that was a high point in his career, an opportunity to carry slops with a Marine PFC.
-------------------------
#2. 1971, Camp Schwab, Okinawa. Some of the troops were talking about joining the air farce when their enlistment was up. I got permission and two five ton trucks. Took the troops down to Kadena AFB for base liberty. They were free to go and do anything they wanted to do, we would regroup at 4 pm for the ride home. I gave them one instruction, to count all the gray haired air farce E-5 Sergeants they saw. They came back with some horror stories that were told and retold.
-------------
#3. 1972, Recruiting Duty. I was a gunny, E-7. My best recruiting poster was the air farce recruiter. He was an E-5, and had more time-in-grade as an E-5 than I had in the Marine Corps.
-------------------
Patrick,

I think the reason your air farce dad doesn't want you to become a MARINE is because he doesn't want you to show him up.

[mrbsox]

At work (@ 1 year here) we just had an Admin. Asst return from deployment... Air Force Reserve.

Now... this guy is E-6 or 7, and knows ADMIN... up one side and down the other. They warned me about him and his system... a paper freak no doubt. But... all he's done for the past couple of days is remind us how ROUGH it was having to stay and work in a trailer, while they built their new facility.

TRAILER !!!! WTF is a trailer... they are used for ammo and water buffalo :D

So, if you want to ROUGH it in the Service.... I guess the Air Force is the way to go. But, if you want the luxury of canvas quarters, and travel in LPC's (leather personnel carriers), ...... :marine:

Oh.. and Esprit de Corps..... did I mention Esprit de Corps ???

[Patrick8605]

Originally posted by Sixguns
Hey Junior (Patrick8605),

. How long was your dad in the AF? Why did he choose to leave it?


SIXGUNS

My dad is still in. He has been in for 22 years and he's an officer. I think that is what makes him want me to be an officer.

[JChristin]

Patrick,

If you haven't figured this one out yet, let me help you. Those who are enlisted will most likely make the pitch that you enter as enlisted. Those who enter as officers, will make the pitch that you enter in that fashion. Each has their own advantages and disadvantages depending upon what it is that you hope to do with your life - during your military service and afterwards. It can be a hard decision - and it should be, afterall, it's about your life. Those things that come easily in life often lack the value of those things obtained from difficult and oftentimes hard living experiences.

Looking back, hindsight being 20/20, I often wish I had entered the Marine Corps as an officer. However, those who enter as enlisted and later earn their commission will typically have the greater respect of the men and women they lead. It's the "harder" way to do it, but then again, I always seek value in whatever I undertake. It's the challenge that intrigues me, the sense of adventure, the shared common pursuit of ideals and objectives, the community of people - their character and the resolve they domonstrate in all that they do.

Last summer, while at the beach with a few friends, one of them is active Air Force. We of course engaged in the tug of war behind who branch was better - usual batter. The air force guy finally admitted to me that he watched a team of Marines work one day during a joint training. He said the Marines where the most disiplined in how they approached their work and performed their tasks; the Marines worked quickly, where not lazy like his co-workers, and demonstrated the highest level of military professionalism he has ever witnessed. He said he was really impressed by watching the Marines carry out their work, it made him feel "small" when compared to how his military branch works.


"If" I had it all to do over again, I believe I would enter as enlisted, doing reserve duty, all the while attending university and earning my degree - then go for my commission. But that is just how I would of tailored it based upon how I would wish to approach it. You'll find your way. If you want the best and have the guts to go for nothing less than the best, then it's the United States Marine Corps.

simper fi,
jchristin

[firstsgtmike]

Patrick,

I would rather be a Sergeant of Marines than an officer in any other branch of service.

From an educational point of view, if you have the qualifications to be an officer, the requirements of all services are the same.

During the "draft" years, there were college grads who preferred to serve a two year enlistment rather than a six year officer obligation. Their emphasis was on a civilian career rather than a military one.

In 1958 I was not draft motivated, but being a 21 year old hs dropout, entering as an officer was not an option. Years later, when it was suggested I apply for a commission, I was satisfied to remain as I was.

Timing is everything. There is an opportune moment when NOW is the time to strike. Gather all the facts, analyze the situation, make a decision, and go for it.

ALways keep in mind that some decisions will affect the rest of your life. It is those decisions you want to put every you have into making, and once made, putting everything you have into making them the right choice. Don't half step, take full strides.

If the timing is right for college, go for it. If it is not the time, then wait until it is the proper time for YOU.

It's YOUR life. Be selfish. Make the decision that will be the best for YOU, because YOU have to live with it. If that means a regular or reserve enlistment, or working for a year or two until the time is right, then so be it.

Most often, if we make a decision based upon what someone else wants, (mother, father, spouse, etc.) we end up blaming THEM for a choice we should have made for ourselves.

One other thing. Don't EVER look back with regrets. It just might be that where you are is the best place you could ever have been. The other road, the other door may have led to disaster.

And where you are, when you are looking back, is the closest you could ever have gotten to heaven.

What is, is. And you can work with it. What if, is a totally different dimension.

Mike Farrell
Cagayan de Oro
Philippines

[Ed Fleming]

I have found a good friend, from Parris Island circa 1955. H espent ten years in the Corps and then got out and enlisted in the air farce. When asked if the Marine Corps was harder than the air farce...

[Sixguns]

FirstSgtMike, AMEN!!!!

Anyone can be an officer, but to be a sergeant of Marines you need to know your stuff!!!!

JChristin, sorry your Marine Corps career was not to your liking and only wish we could turn back the hands of time to give you the chance to have a "Do Over."

After 20 years in the gun club I am proud of what I did. Wearing stars, bars, oak leaves or eagles was not what makes you a leader. Leadership is the ability to motivate and inspire people to achieve more than they believe is possible. In my opinion, I have seen too few officers with that ability. Many officers are not in the daily activity of leading Marines. They delegate authority to Staff NCOs who make things happen. Most officers have a title that describes them as a leader. Real leadership is done by the enlisted leadership.

SIXGUNS

[firstsgtmike]

Originally posted by Sixguns
. Many officers are not in the daily activity of leading Marines. They delegate authority to Staff NCOs who make things happen. Most officers have a title that describes them as a leader. Real leadership is done by the enlisted leadership.

SIXGUNS

THAT is the very reason why, on three occassions, I rejected the invitation to apply for a commission.

It was not in the best interests of the Corps for me to volunteer for a demotion.

Mike Farrell
First Sergeant of Marines
retired from the active rolls.

[Sixguns]

FirstSgtMike, I know exactly what you mean. Too many times I was asked the same questions or pointed toward a commissionig program. What cracks me up is that some officers talked to me as if I could...

[JChristin]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Sixguns
[B]FirstSgtMike, AMEN!!!!


JChristin, sorry your Marine Corps career was not to your liking and only wish we could turn back the hands of time to give you the chance to have a "Do Over."


Sixguns, you needn't be sorry, my time in the Marine Corps was to my liking. However, the advantage of hindsight is the ability to see how one may have performed differently under same or different variables. Guess they call that the advantage of wisdom acquired by experience seasoned by age. For some, it doesn't arrive. For others, it become a wonderful tool to improve life.

semper fi,
jchristin

[firstsgtmike]

JChristin,

I will quote myself, then add to it.

"One other thing. Don't EVER look back with regrets. It just might be that where you are is the best place you could ever have been. The other road, the other door may have led to disaster.

And where you are, when you are looking back, is the closest you could ever have gotten to heaven.

What is, is. And you can work with it. What if, is a totally different dimension."

Hindsight is from a totally different person than the one who was originally presented with the opportunity or the challenge.

(The first time I ever saw a girlfriends bared breast, I went into shock. Fifteen seconds later, I was a "man of the world".)

No one can stand in the same river twice.

"If I knew then what I know now?" Come on! You'd have to put everything else on "hold" until the times caught up with you.

It's akin to a "visiter" from the future. Totally weird, and totally out of place.

Can you honestly handle today. a guy who always says, "I knew you'd say that." "I knew you'd do that." And he be right each and every time?

In "hindsight", can we be sure that the same opportunities would have been presented to us if we had been more "sophisticated"?

I'm sorry to keep it on the boy meets girl thing, however, in hindsight, her presentation to me, and my presentation to her, were in keeping with where we both were at that point in time.

She flirted. In hindsight, I should have said, "o.K. honey, it's motel time. (The equalivant of **** or get off the pot.)

In hindsight, even I cannot predict the response of a fourteen year old to a fifteen year old. BUT, if she had anticapated that response from me, the flirting would never have taken place.

And I would have missed out on a lifetime of "what ifs".

Hindsight is wistful thinking.

Bottom line is; "If I am at peace where I am, every decision I made that got me here were the right ones. "

If I am not at peace, then I look for people to blame for my predicament.

Hindsight says it isn't MY fault, if she or he or it or they had only ....................

I've never heard an excuse from a winner, only from losers.

I offer my thanks to everyone who ever stepped on me, **** on me, screwed me over, lied to me, stole from me, cheated me. You all helped to make me what I am today, and I thank you for that.

If it wasn't for you, I wouldn't be me.

I love me,
and I think I'm grand.
When I go out walking
I hold my hand.

I slip my arm
around my waist,
and if I get fresh
I slap my face.

Thank you all, for helping to make me, ME!

[Patrick8605]

WOW!!! Thanks for being so supportive. This just makes me more motivated to be apart the Corps. I will strive everyday and work as hard as I can to be a MARINE, no matter what anyone says!

[JChristin]

firstsgtmike:


Hindsight allows one to see what type of corrective measures can be applied to past performances to achieve improved performance in the future, and in simuliar situations. Hindsight isn't a wish to change the past - for to do that would eradicate hindsight all together, therefore wisdom bore of it.

If it wasn't for the use of hindsight military planners would have no measurement in which to improve future performance. The same is true in business. Without employing hindsight to past performance how would an abstute and savvy professional employ forecast methods for projected growth or a downturn in the business cycle and make the required adjustments. If I go to an attorney for legal advice, I am hoping to obtain his finest legal opinion based upon his experience. uhmmm...experience vs. hindsight...uhmmm, they just may be a correlation here.

Now about the first time a boy...well...now...that's a whole different matter. But you can bet your bottom dollar on this: performance sure improved after that one, based upon hindsight!

Hindsight has nothing to do about placing "blame" or "fault." It has everything to do with asking oneself, "what can I do to correct matters in the future so these results (whatever they may be) may not happen again in my life." Or, conversley, "I like what I achieved, what can I do to improve it the next time." Hindsight is vision achieved by experience.

I may not be able to travel back in time and change how I entered the military, (wouldn't want to anyway) but I can apply the principles learned from that experience in how I do things differently today in the business areana. That is where my performance of today has been sharpen and my life has benefited. "Unto thy own self be true." When I am true to myself then I am true to everything around me.

semper fi,
jchristin

[firstsgtmike]

JChristin,

I was going to let it slide, because I didn't want it to appear that we were bumping heads.

Using the gift of "hindsight", I decided that since this is a Poolee forum, the younger, less experienced readers deserved a roadmap of sorts.

So, for the youngsters:

I give you two maxims: "Look before you leap!" and "He who hesitates is lost!."

Which one is correct? Pick either one, and you will LOSE.

Because the basic argument will be "Oh Yeah? What if....? Or "suppose that.....?" And you will lose.

They both are correct, depending upon the time and circumstances, and the use to which they apply and refer.

I stated my point and my case concerning hindsight. I believe I was correct in context, and see no reason to change any part of it.

JC stated her point and case concerning hindsight. I believe that she was correct in context, and see no reason to challenge any part of it.

SO: For the youngsters, it is not an either/or. I believe ALL points made were valid.
---------------------------------------
But I learned something too. There was a guy I always tried my damndest to beat on our three mile runs. I never could. But now, thanks to hindsight and experience I know how.

The next time I get into a three mile race with a 25 year old, my hindsight and experience should make me an easy winner. So you be sure to bet on me, and ignore the fact that I'm 40 years older and 80lbs heavier. I've got the hindsight and experience.

(That may be a petty ending to this post, but I just couldn't resist.)

[wrbones]

Kinda like JC's bicycle race with that older fella! LOL. Seems he had a little motor on his bicycle...

[Sixguns]

Well, since we are all contributing our pocket change....

I don't think a "sea lawyer" or someone who has accumulated less than two years of Marine Corps service is a qualified career counselor. It's easy to sit back and tell these future Marines to become officers or apply for commissioning programs. Do you know how many commissions are offered annually by the Marines? How about the number of enlistments we do annually? The shear contrast in numbers will tell you that there isn't enough room for everyone to be an officer. By the way, what percent of commissionings are given to enlisted Marines? If you don't know the answer, then maybe you should keep silent. Marine Corps recruiters are career counselors and the best trained professionals to make suggestions to prospects based on a multitude of factors that become understood during the screening process. Yeah, just because someone says "I want to be an officer" doesn't mean they qualify or that just because they are in college means they are locked into the officer track. What is their GPA? SAT scores? PFT score? Going to college does not make you an officer. I'm not sure how the two-year enlistment program worked (because I have never known the Marines to have one in my 20 years of service) or how much leadership experience one might obtain in such a short time, but leading Marines and poviding career counseling is something the Corps leaves to NCOs (All recruiters and career planners are NCOs). Maybe we should do that here too!

SF,


SIXGUNS

[Sixguns]

Or at least to those who completed a four-year tour/enlistment.


SIXGUNS

[CAS3]

Well, since we are all contributing our pocket change....

I don't think a "sea lawyer" or someone who has accumulated less than two years of Marine Corps service is a qualified career counselor. It's easy to sit back and tell these future Marines to become officers or apply for commissioning programs. Do you know how many commissions are offered annually by the Marines? How about the number of enlistments we do annually? The shear contrast in numbers will tell you that there isn't enough room for everyone to be an officer. By the way, what percent of commissionings are given to enlisted Marines? If you don't know the answer, then maybe you should keep silent. Marine Corps recruiters are career counselors and the best trained professionals to make suggestions to prospects based on a multitude of factors that become understood during the screening process. Yeah, just because someone says "I want to be an officer" doesn't mean they qualify or that just because they are in college means they are locked into the officer track. What is their GPA? SAT scores? PFT score? Going to college does not make you an officer. I'm not sure how the two-year enlistment program worked (because I have never known the Marines to have one in my 20 years of service) or how much leadership experience one might obtain in such a short time, but leading Marines and poviding career counseling is something the Corps leaves to NCOs (All recruiters and career planners are NCOs). Maybe we should do that here too!

SF,


SIXGUNS



AMEN BROTHER...I remember watching SIXGUNS in the recruiting office in 1994. The man still has his stuff together. He is a true leader, counselor and confidant. He moderates these posts because HE is the one with the knowledge and experience.
S/F:marine: