Women in Combat

[thedrifter]

Women in Combat
Strategy Page
August 14, 2007

The Department of Defense has a policy that forbids the use of female troops in direct combat. This is mostly about politics, but the rule is there and must be obeyed. Or at least an attempt must be made to enforce the rule. While many women finding themselves in firefights, and exposed to roadside bombs anyway, that's normal for a combat zone. As far back as World War II, 25 percent of all troops in the army found themselves under fire at one time or another, although only about 15 percent of soldiers had a "direct combat" job. In Iraq, women make up about 14 percent of the military personnel, but only two percent of the casualties (dead and wounded). So the policy, which many politicians oppose, but most women soldiers favor, appears to be working.

Still, the casualty rate for women in Iraq is over ten times what it was in World War II, Vietnam and the 1991 Gulf War (where 30,000 women served). A lot of the combat operations experienced by women in Iraq involves base security, or guard duty. Female troops have performed well in that. This is a job that requires alertness, attention to detail and ability to quickly use your weapons when needed. In convoy operations, women have also done well, especially when it comes to spotting, and dealing with, IEDs (roadside bombs and ambushes). Going into the 21st century, warfare is becoming more automated, and less dependent on muscle and testosterone. That gives women an edge, and they exploit it, just as they have done in so many other fields.

Ellie

[Phantom Blooper]

ROUND ONE................:beer:

[Dave Coup]

Interesting, we (My wife,some former Marines and I) just had a discussion about this same thing. The consensus amoung the guys was definitely negative due to a number of factors ie upper body strength,bone structure, fat distribution and of course the thing that set my wife off, emotional tendencies.

[Alphaonethree]

I think that in the normal work place it should be equil pay for equil work. In the Marines. No Way. Its not the upper body strength or height to weight. It is our natural tendancy to protect a woman in a crisis situation. Marines can not afford to stop in the middle of a fire fight and tend to a woman. The old saying goes your either firing or reloading.

[RLeon]

No matter what the technology will be, the basic element that will secure success in warfighting is the ground pounder.
Guard duty and convoy security is NOT the same as being in an infantry or combat line unit performing arduous duties. The demands are far greater and physiologically, physically, and emotionally women are not equipped for it.

This doesn't mean women shouldn't be trained or used in combat, or that they are not as dedicated or motivate as men in the aspect of warfighting (They are Riflemen), it's just not efficient or pragmatic to integrate or form organizations of women grunts.
Now if we should ever come to a dire need of manpower in the front lines like the IDF faces with greater number of enemies perpetually surrounding them, I can see the formation of a women’s corps like the IDF used to have.

[davblay]

if this war continues, there will be women in all combat mos's.They are already a trained rifle person and know how to fight, so why not use them? JMO!

[Alphaonethree]

I doubt that The Government will allow women in Combat. Again i think that a man's natural reaction in very high strees situations is to protect woman. I know there are some pretty buff women out there but I think you will have a hard time finding one that is willing to thrust her Kbar through the brain stem of a enemy guard. Or pick up whats left of a team member arm or leg. Just dont think people have comsidered all the situations that women could find them selves in.

[hrscowboy]

Women need to stay home takin care of the house and the kids and leave the fightin to us men....

[Sgt Blue]

Hummm, Interesting. I have met some pretty good female Field MP’s that could shoot with the best of them on a MA Duce. Now is that saying I would want to have them next to me in a four man stack when clearing a house that I know has a gunmen in it. Hell know. Sorry that it just me and I’m not going to change. I had an experience with a female in combat when the bullets were hitting the track going thought An-Nasiriyah, the women was freaking the F$%^ out and trying to get out of the Track. Needless to say we got rid of her A## real quick.

[FISTFU68]

:evilgrin: KEEP-'EM BAREFOOT AND PREGNANT,THEY TEND TOO FUC-UP EVERYTHING THEY GET A'ROUND :evilgrin:

[hrscowboy]

I dont know about the pregnant thing fist i dont like the idea of child support what so ever...

[FISTFU68]

:evilgrin: (LMAO)TELL THE TRUTH MARINE,YOU WERE A GELDING;MANY MOON'S AGO.YOU JUST SHOOTIN BLANK'S NOW,YOU OLD FART;I DON'T HAVE THAT PROBLEM!!!:D

[Marine84]

what with THIS again!?

The women in there today have waaaaaay more training than we did when I went through. For those rough & tough ones that CAN/COULD do it - have at - bless you my Sisters. For the girlie ones that want to support in the rear with the gear - bless YOU my Sisters - without YOU, the ones in the front couldn't get what they need.

Without ANY of US though you guys would have had NO FUN whatsoever ;)

[Phantom Blooper]

what with THIS again!?



ROUND TWO :beer: :beer:

[sparkie]

84, Can you train the woman out of a woman? Guys don't have that problem.

[Marine84]

Guys don't have that problem.

With what? Somebody trying to train the women out of them? ;)

[sparkie]

Just don't take the one thing we fought for, and throw it before swine.

[FISTFU68]

:usmc: OUR BE'LOVED EAGLE,ABOVE THE GLOBE & ANCHOR;IS HUNG WITH COCK AND A SET OF BALL'S NOT A FRIGGING STINKY C**T~ALL G.I JANES ARE COCK ENVY!!!THAT MEAN'S YOU "WOOKIE":D

[Marine84]

ALL G.I JANES ARE COCK ENVY!!!THAT MEAN'S YOU "WOOKIE":D

LOL! I'm GLAD mine ain't on the outside! ;)

[Phantom Blooper]

ROUND THREE ......... :beer: :beer: :beer:

[chili77bowl]

Without ANY of US though you guys would have had NO FUN whatsoever ;)

whoa! I don't want to assume you meant something and be wrong...but umm...


yeah.

You gotta be careful with this guys...cause if you **** em off they say you did it without consent....look at this AF chick and her boyfriends that is in the papers today...

[FISTFU68]

:evilgrin: DON'T MIND MY WOMAN,OR ANY WOMAN;FROM GETTING HER SATISFACTION.WHETHER IT BE MARINE OR OTHERWISE,JUST DON'T WANNA BE THE MARINE;THAT HAS TO PUT A SISTER OR DAUGHTER AND OR MOTHER IN A BODY BAG! NOT GOOD~GODBLESS 'YA ANYWAY~SEMPER~FI~GOD~SPEED :usmc:

[sparkie]

You said it well, Fist. And I believe most of us would agree. Well, maybe not the WMs. Body bag ain't no place for motherhood. Just how I feel. Yea, I know the Israelis do it, Good for them. Just not for me

[zznkt]

I was always taught a Marine is a Marine, regardless of race/ethnicity, class, and gender. If you take gender out of the equation and look at the person, the human being, we all have stregths in weaknesses. This is a power struggle at the fear of change. Everyone's roles are changing and we need to look past our genders and look how we can come together, working towards the common goal. I am sick of hearing the excuses and the stereotypes, lets change this and recognize all Marines as Marines with a common goal. Semper Fi Marines!:flag:

[FISTFU68]

:evilgrin: ZZ'S NO ONE HAS SAID THAT,WOMEN MARINES;SOME OF THEM ARE THE MOST OUTSTANDING MARINES I'VE EVER SERVED WITH!REALLY CAN'T REMEMBER WHEN.(LOL)THE LAST THANG A MARINE GRUNT NEED'S IS TOO HAVE HIS POSITION GIVEN AWAY,ON A L.P.OR A KILLER TEAM;BECAUSE SUSIE ROTTEN CROTCH.IS ON HER MENSTRUALCYCLE,AND A LITTLE BREEZE BLEW THAT;WHIFF OF STANK DOWN WIND TO WHERE THE ENEMY GET'S A WHIFF AND COMPARMISES THE TEAM'S POSITION!!!FLY CHOPPER'S,BECOME MP'S;WHATEVER...JUST STAY OUTTA THE GRUNT'S,BECAUSE YOU WILL CAUSE DISRUPTION;AND GET GOOD MEN KILLED!!!:usmc: :thumbdown

[hrscowboy]

Orahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh you got that right Fist....

[zznkt]

Hmmm, too bad not all Marines see all Marines as equal. I am disappointed that both of you Marines can't step back and see the bigger picture. Things are changing and are already set in motion. Drop your prejudices, take a step back from the old patriarchal view, and look at the big picture. I challenge you with this... First, I am glad you both have strong oppinions, but are they really your own? Second, enlistment numbers are dropping; however, more and more women are enlisting and are being encouraged to enlist. If you were in a combat situation, wouldn't you just be glad you had another Marine by your side helping, regardless of gender? Please really think about this before you quickly respond back. Think Marines, Think!

[sparkie]

ZZ,,,stow it. You aint changing us old farts. Think,ZZ, Think. We don't have to be like you. Wouldn't want to be. In our experience and in our times, women were not meant to be cannon fodder. Throw your woman against a machine gun if you wish, but not ours. We wern't brought up that way, and they're not built that way,, This is getting a bit humourus,;>

[Phantom Blooper]

Round 4..............Due for a knockout,real soon!! Already using the cut men! :thumbup: :beer:

:evilgrin:

[sparkie]

Phantom, You know I'm bein gentle,,,,,,,,,so far.

[zznkt]

Interesting point Sparkie, but I wonder how the mothers of boys and men feel to have their child go in harms way and heaven forbid, get hurt or killed. How do you suppose they feel? Most mothers feel a deep need to protect their offspring, no matter how young or old they are. For a parent male or female, to outlive a child (of any age) is incredibley hard and evokes incredible emotional pain. I understand and admire the feeling men have to protect and care for women, but my point is a Marine is a Marine, with a primary purpose.

[sparkie]

From the beginning the Proud and Faithful Woman Marine had a primary purpose of their own, and a job they did with Honor and my respect. It was Never intended to be combat. Some have died under fire, again, never intended.

Not my Mama,,,, Maybe,,YO MAMA. Bro.

[Marine84]

ZZ you may as well give it up girl. These guys don't have a problem with WMs in general - it was hard enough for them to see young MEN in bodybags, they're telling you that it would be harder for them to see WOMEN in them. I hope to God they NEVER put women in the front - not because I don't think we could do it but, because I (myself) would have not been able to live with myself because a man got killed trying to protect me. As close as the Corps has allowed us women to get to the front should be enough to make a WM feel like she's doing her duty - I know I'm prouder of the ones that have gone behind me that are having/have had the chance to do so. You should respect these guys for caring enough about their Sisters to even give a damn whether we come home in bodybags or not.They know we're Marines and that we have the same purpose as they do.

[Dave Coup]

I have to agree with the other old farts. There's a lot more to being a Combat Marine than just shooting a rifle and I still haven't met the woman or Woman Marine that packs the gear to do it.

[sparkie]

I admit there was a WM combat theoryI had heard about long ago. Goes like this. You put about 60 WMs in a barracks for about 6 months or so till their periods get in sync. Then let them loose at a certain time of the month, and they will slash and burn their way all the way to Peking. Don't know if it was ever tried, though.

[Marine84]

Yeah...............we DO have that inner "b!tch" chromosome - which helps ALOT sometimes.

[Ironrider]

There have been a couple of female cops I'd have as back up. They were just plain...mean, Hell they even scared me.....:p

[Parsecboy]

Were they hot?:D

[Ironrider]

We had a female cop a few years ago, cute,petite and was the meanest broad I ever met. She'd be the first to bodyslam anyone that got out of line. Wan't afraid of anyone or anything..:marine:

[One4Eddy]

:evilgrin: ZZ'S NO ONE HAS SAID THAT,WOMEN MARINES;SOME OF THEM ARE THE MOST OUTSTANDING MARINES I'VE EVER SERVED WITH!REALLY CAN'T REMEMBER WHEN.(LOL)THE LAST THANG A MARINE GRUNT NEED'S IS TOO HAVE HIS POSITION GIVEN AWAY,ON A L.P.OR A KILLER TEAM;BECAUSE SUSIE ROTTEN CROTCH.IS ON HER MENSTRUALCYCLE,AND A LITTLE BREEZE BLEW THAT;WHIFF OF STANK DOWN WIND TO WHERE THE ENEMY GET'S A WHIFF AND COMPARMISES THE TEAM'S POSITION!!!FLY CHOPPER'S,BECOME MP'S;WHATEVER...JUST STAY OUTTA THE GRUNT'S,BECAUSE YOU WILL CAUSE DISRUPTION;AND GET GOOD MEN KILLED!!!

ILMAO! They'd smell your musty breath first. :sick: I've been a field MP for quite a while and our training is pretty damn decent. First I'm gonna say that on average female Marines are physically weaker than male Marines. You can't fight genetics. But there are always the exceptions. While you have some women that can go toe to toe with a man any day, you also have fat, nasty, slow male Marines that couldn't run a 24 minute 3 mile to save their life. Are they more qualified to be a grunt than a female? No Way! I think that more MOS' should have physical fitness requirements. Forget what gender they are, the question should be "Can you hang with the big dogs?" :no: