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thedrifter
07-30-07, 06:07 AM
Uniformly Silly Rules
Strategy Page

July 30, 2007: The U.S. Marine Corps has decided that it is not good for the image of the Marine Corps for marines to wear their combat ("utility") uniform off base. New regulations nullify many exceptions to this rule that had been established by the commanders of many marine bases. The new rule allows marines to wear their cammies (camouflage) uniform while driving form their off-base home to and from work. But they may not get out of their vehicle while wearing cammies unless it is an emergency (an accident, or some matter of life-and-death importance.) Marines may not get out of their car to gas up their vehicle while wearing cammies. If they run out of gas, they may then exit their car to deal with that. Marines are advised to pay attention to the fuel status of their private vehicles, and to carry a set of civilian clothes, or a marine service uniform, in their vehicle, in case they have to get out. The only exception is for marines driving military vehicles for long distances. Marines may exit their vehicles to use the toilet, but this must be done as quickly as possible.

On the bright side, tax advisors believe this new rule will allow marines to deduct the cost of their work uniforms from their taxes. In the past, the IRS had ruled that the cost of utilities, fatigues and BDUs were not deductible as they could be worn off base. The IRS reasoned that, if you could go into a store or restaurant, your uniform was not limited to the workplace, and was therefore not deductible. The high tech camies worn today are not cheap, and a marine can go through several hundred dollars worth a year.

Ellie

crate78
07-30-07, 08:06 AM
What's silly about that? That's the way it was in my day. If you lived off base, you could wear your utilities in your car going to and from work. Period.

At any other time, any time you left the base, you wore either the class A uniform or appropriate civilian clothes. And appropriate civilian clothes consisted of, at minimum, slacks and a collared shirt with the tails tucked in. Blue jeans were verboten.

crate

thedrifter
07-30-07, 08:27 AM
Cammie crackdown
Regs address seasonal, off-base wear — and when you’ll roll up your sleeves
By John Hoellwarth - jhoellwarth@militarytimes.com
Posted : August 06, 2007

Cammies make you blend into the tree line, but they don’t make you invisible at a gas station.

Under the commandant’s new uniform policy released July 25, stopping at the places you used to off base might now get your butt chewed.

The commandant’s guidance bans Marines wearing cammies off base from leaving their vehicle in all instances except “bona fide” emergencies, such as medical emergencies, car accidents or vehicle breakdowns, according to AlMar message 035/07, titled “Wear of the Marine Corps Combat Utility Uniform.”

That means Marines in cammies are now prohibited from pick-ups or drop-offs at off-base daycare facilities and schools. A midday trip to the bank requires a wardrobe change. And only Marines in New Jersey and Oregon — where state law forbids pumping your own gas — can fuel up off base without disobeying the policy.

Leaving your vehicle to pump gas in cammies is now expressly forbidden, but leaving it for a vehicle emergency is not. So in order to follow the rules, if your car is low on fuel, your vehicle needs to sputter to a stop before you can get out and get gas.

Before Commandant Gen. James Conway changed the rules, leaving base in cammies for a bank errand was in bounds. So were visits to child-care centers, schools, dry cleaners, vehicle repair shops, and convenience stores for “emergency child care and health products” such as milk, diapers and medicine.

That’s all gone now. “We’ve eliminated all those reasons,” said Mary Boyt, spokeswoman for the Marine Corps Uniform Board. “Don’t stop if you don’t have to. That’s the rule of thumb.”

Outside of emergencies, the only off-base cammie authorization left standing is for drive-through windows “where exiting the vehicle is not required,” according to the uniform regulations.

Gunnery Sgt. Chris Williamson had just read the commandant’s message when he walked out of popular bank branch off a busy road in Jacksonville, N.C. Sporting a T-shirt and shorts, Williamson, with 2nd Reconnaissance Battalion at Camp Lejeune, said he’s used to scheduling errands to make sure he’s in civilian clothes.

“I agree with it,” he said of the new policy. “It doesn’t make a difference to me.”

One corporal who asked not to be identified admitted “it can be a pain” to change into civilian clothes before running errands, “but it’s not that big a deal.”

Lt. Col. T.V. Johnson, Conway’s spokesman, said, “When I came in in ’85, you went nowhere in your cammies. We’re getting back to basics.”

In January 1996, then-Commandant Gen. Charles Krulak relaxed the cammie regulations for off-base wear, authorizing the “brief and appropriate” stops Marines have been making for the past 11 years.

Boyt expects some exceptions to the new policy, noting that recruiters will likely still wear cammies to delayed-entry program functions at their commander’s discretion. For some other Marines, she said, the policy change will prohibit them from wearing the utility uniform altogether.

Because the message prohibits even official business off base in cammies, Marines who work in government rented buildings all over the country simply “can’t wear the camouflaged uniform,” she said.
Seasonal wear

In addition to changing the off-base cammie regs, Conway’s message standardized the seasonal wear of both the woodland and desert camouflage uniform. Effective July 25, desert cammies with sleeves rolled up became the designated summer uniform in garrison, while the woodland uniform with sleeves down will be the uniform for winter months, according to the message.

Conway wrote that he’s making the rule change because the Corps is no longer transitioning from the old camouflage pattern to the newer pixel pattern.

“As Marines, our uniforms and military appearance are an important part of our identity and have traditionally marked us as the nation’s most distinctive military service,” Conway wrote. “As such, uniformity and an outward pride in our appearance have been constants for every Marine — from private to general.”

Conway stopped short of naming the Corps’ official summer and winter solstice. The message leaves local commanders the flexibility to decide when summer and winter begin and end, if at all, on their bases and stations, Boyt said.

The when-to-wear-what policy applies only to those Marines in garrison; the uniform of the day for units in combat, deployment or training will be decided by their respective commanders, Boyt said.

For aircrew Marines, the new rules mean tan flight suits in summer and green flight suits in winter, at least on paper. It’s the responsibility of individual aviation units to supply flight equipment for their personnel, and there aren’t currently enough tan flight suits to go around, Boyt said.

“It will take some time for units to budget for and issue desert flight suits to their Marines, so this particular change will not happen immediately, but should happen as soon as possible,” she said.

With maternity cammies now available only in woodland green, the Corps is starting production on the desert pattern to keep pregnant Marines within regs during the summer, said Dan Fitzgerald, Marine Corps Systems Command’s infantry combat equipment program manager, who received an e-mail tasker to get it done the day before Conway’s message hit the streets.
Old on-base rules

Before the commandant’s July 25 policy standardized regulations for when and where to sport the desert and woodland combat utility uniforms, commanders at various levels were free to maintain their own policies. Some operational units such as II Marine Expeditionary Force based at Camp Lejeune, N.C., were wearing desert cammies all year long as a show of solidarity with Marines deployed to combat zones, while other units allowed their Marines to choose for themselves on a day-to-day basis.

Here is a sampling of some of the other practices in effect, based on phone calls to bases and stations across the Corps before the commandant’s order was published:

North Carolina

• Camp Lejeune: Marines’ choice Monday through Thursday, and desert every Friday.

• Marine Corps Air Station Cherry Point: Woodland all the time.

• MCAS New River: Marines’ choice.

South Carolina

• MCAS Beaufort: Marines’ choice.

• Marine Corps Recruit Depot Parris Island: Desert Monday, woodland Tuesday and Wednesday, service “C” Thursday and Friday if there’s a graduation ceremony, woodland those days if not.

California

• Camp Pendleton, Calif.: Woodland Monday through Thursday, and desert every Friday.

• MCAS Miramar, Calif.: Desert all week, service “C” on the first Friday of each month.

• MCRD San Diego: Monday through Wednesday, desert with sleeves rolled up in the summer and woodland with sleeves down in the winter. Service “C” Thursday and Friday in the summer, service “B” on those days in the winter.

• Marine Corps Logistics Base Barstow: Desert all week.

• Marine Corps Air Ground Combat Center at Twentynine Palms: Desert all week with sleeves down all year.

Arizona

• MCAS Yuma: Marines’ choice.


Hawaii

• Marine Corps Base Hawaii: Desert Wednesday and woodland the rest of the time. Service “C” every third Friday.

Washington, D.C.

• Marine Barracks: Desert with sleeves rolled up in summer, woodland with sleeves down in winter.

Georgia

• MCLB Albany: Desert on 1st of the month through the 7th, woodland the rest of the time. Service “C” every third Friday.

— John Hoellwarth

Ellie

3077India
07-30-07, 01:26 PM
Uniformly Silly Rules
Strategy Page

July 30, 2007: The U.S. Marine Corps has decided that it is not good for the image of the Marine Corps for marines to wear their combat ("utility") uniform off base. New regulations nullify many exceptions to this rule that had been established by the commanders of many marine bases. The new rule allows marines to wear their cammies (camouflage) uniform while driving form their off-base home to and from work. But they may not get out of their vehicle while wearing cammies unless it is an emergency (an accident, or some matter of life-and-death importance.) Marines may not get out of their car to gas up their vehicle while wearing cammies. If they run out of gas, they may then exit their car to deal with that. Marines are advised to pay attention to the fuel status of their private vehicles, and to carry a set of civilian clothes, or a marine service uniform, in their vehicle, in case they have to get out. The only exception is for marines driving military vehicles for long distances. Marines may exit their vehicles to use the toilet, but this must be done as quickly as possible.

On the bright side, tax advisors believe this new rule will allow marines to deduct the cost of their work uniforms from their taxes. In the past, the IRS had ruled that the cost of utilities, fatigues and BDUs were not deductible as they could be worn off base. The IRS reasoned that, if you could go into a store or restaurant, your uniform was not limited to the workplace, and was therefore not deductible. The high tech camies worn today are not cheap, and a marine can go through several hundred dollars worth a year.

EllieTell me this is a joke. This is so utterly stupid!!!!:confused:

Chumley
07-30-07, 01:38 PM
This was the same rules we had when I was in - I've been out for 14 years. Most Marines simply kept a change of clothes in the car and dealt with it. It was common to try get away with wearing utilities or flight suits in town, and also common to get caught....was just easier to follow the rule.

3077India
07-30-07, 04:05 PM
This was the same rules we had when I was in - I've been out for 14 years. Most Marines simply kept a change of clothes in the car and dealt with it. It was common to try get away with wearing utilities or flight suits in town, and also common to get caught....was just easier to follow the rule.It still seems to be complicated and ridiculous to the point of being almost NON-FUNCTIONAL.:confused:

Accord
07-30-07, 04:20 PM
This is stupid. No, Marines shouldn't be wearing their cammies out in town, however if the Corps is doing this to improve it's image or something along those lines then they need to start enforcing civilian attire regulations. I see these junior Marines going out on libbo in Fubu clothes that are 5 sizes too big looking like they just stepped out of a Snoop Dog rap video, it's absolutely disgusting and nobody says anything about it and it's a Corps wide problem in the fleet. Marines definitely shouldn't be wearing cammies out in town, but wearing nasty clothes looking like you're some sort of gang member projects a far poorer image upon our Corps than Marines wearing cammies out in town.

Zulu 36
07-30-07, 05:15 PM
I agree with Accord regarding civilian clothing, but I have little sympathy for those who complain about the rules on wear of utilities off base.

Those rules existed in my time too, and in fact were stricter. No such thing allowed as going through a drive-through (yes, there were drive-throughs waaaay back then).

Most people who lived off-base, or planned off-base stops, changed into civvies before leaving their duty location unless they were in UDs. It was just a way of life.

Just remember all you young guys, you don't have to like the order, you just have to follow it.

ggyoung
07-30-07, 05:46 PM
Acorrd, Zulu 36 I agree with you. In my time you not allowed to wear Uts off base at all. If you were a brown bager you wore civies. You would never get off base in uts. When I went to Fort Seall to Searchlight school what I seen them damn doges do turned my guts inside ut. In the town of Lawton there were shops that you could rent wigs from to make you look like damn hippie. I watched as one army puke forget to take his earrinngs off. Boy did those army MP's have fun with him.

drewster915
07-30-07, 06:27 PM
It doesn't matter because The Marine Corps is the best dress out of all the services. We should be proud of our high standards!!!! I've seen alot of other branches in uniform off base & on leave in differant styles of uniforms, and they don't care what condition their uniforms look, But every Marine I see on leave, or where ever they are look Sharp & Clean. If all they have to complain about is when to wear Utilities let them have it...As long as our standards for Being a Marine are never lowered....:usmc: Semper Fi

OLE SARG
07-30-07, 09:25 PM
Some boots with only a year in the Corps should not complain about the cammie policy!!!!! It's been like that for years, yes even back in 1961!!!!!

SEMPER FI,

RLeon
07-30-07, 10:52 PM
If I was king of the Corps I would prohibit the use of civilian attire completely. The civvies you strip off at MCRD would be last you wear until you are disharged.
It would be cammies for work and war, service uniform every other
occasion.
Formal events, Blues.
Of course there would be PT gear for PT, and Coveralls for mechs and techs etc.
I would even institute regulations for sleeping attire. PT shorts and a cut off sweatshirt, just like what Gunny Hartman wears in "FMJ" when he gets blasted by Gomer.
:D

CHOPPER7199
07-30-07, 11:24 PM
Question? Recruiters in P.T. outfits proper for the job? Walked in on 3 recruiters and two of them wore the same t-shirt color and shorts, other had on different color T. Thought at least one would have had dress downed blues.

Chumley
07-31-07, 08:58 AM
You're da-gum hard-Corps, RLeon!! F*** Civies! I like it. Too f-in funny!
D'accord, Accord. The civilian attire regulations should be addressed thoroughly. Anything in which your skivvy drawers are showing when you are not in your backyard should not be tolerated. I'm all about fashion, individuality etc, but c'mon, pull your pants up for Chesty's sake.

sdk87to91
07-31-07, 09:13 AM
There are alot of Army National Guard folks around here. They almost always look sharp, but it offends my instincts to see them in utilities, in public. Just seems wrong, like wearing football pads to the mall.

RLeon
07-31-07, 02:04 PM
There are alot of Army National Guard folks around here. They almost always look sharp, but it offends my instincts to see them in utilities, in public. Just seems wrong, like wearing football pads to the mall.
I live next to Ft. Benning, so I see soldiers in utes everywhere and I think to myself..."were's the battle at?"
Sad thing is they look more presentable in their combat unifrms than they do in their service uniforms.

SkilletsUSMC
07-31-07, 02:11 PM
If I was king of the Corps I would prohibit the use of civilian attire completely. The civvies you strip off at MCRD would be last you wear until you are disharged.
It would be cammies for work and war, service uniform every other
occasion.
Formal events, Blues.
Of course there would be PT gear for PT, and Coveralls for mechs and techs etc.
I would even institute regulations for sleeping attire. PT shorts and a cut off sweatshirt, just like what Gunny Hartman wears in "FMJ" when he gets blasted by Gomer.
:D

So if I need to work on my car Im gonna have to do it in my Chucks???;)

But serriously, after wearing desert cammies for 7 months every day and comming home there was no better feeling then wearing some civilain clothes. I guess I should thank god your not the King of the Corps!

RLeon
07-31-07, 02:12 PM
So if I need to work on my car Im gonna have to do it in my Chucks???;)

But serriously, after wearing desert cammies for 7 months every day and comming home there was no better feeling then wearing some civilain clothes. I guess I should thank god your not the King of the Corps!
What's so great about civvies...if you needed them the Corps would issue them to you...;)

outlaw3179
07-31-07, 03:44 PM
Ive got an idea , instead of worrying about stupid s*it like cammies why doesnt the Marine Corps start worrying about taking care of their Marines instead of burning the f*ck out of them. That might help retention. Semper Fi.

SaltDog
09-09-09, 05:50 PM
In one sense, a sharp dressed Gyrene in starched and pressed 'utes looks as sharp and squared-away as if in dress uniform. However, the regulations regarding the wearing of utilities was the same for me in the 50's and 60's.

It's the Corps! Regs are created and legislated by REMFs. Not everything will makes sense. :evilgrin:

Skosh59
09-09-09, 06:09 PM
Acorrd, Zulu 36 I agree with you. In my time you not allowed to wear Uts off base at all. If you were a brown bager you wore civies. You would never get off base in uts. When I went to Fort Seall to Searchlight school what I seen them damn doges do turned my guts inside ut. In the town of Lawton there were shops that you could rent wigs from to make you look like damn hippie. I watched as one army puke forget to take his earrinngs off. Boy did those army MP's have fun with him.

Thats the way it was & should be.

Petz
09-09-09, 07:14 PM
who opened up this post? the last one before yesterday was over 2 years ago.... stop grave digging unless there's nothing to talk about.