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10thzodiac
07-29-07, 06:36 PM
Kennedy Assassination:

Retired Gunnery Sergeant Carlos Hathcock is likewise skeptical of Oswald's alleged shooting feat. Hathcock is a former senior instructor at the U. S. Marine Corps Sniper Instruction School at Quantico, Virginia. He has been described as the most famous American military sniper in history. In Vietnam he was credited with 93 confirmed kills. He now conducts police SWAT team sniper schools across the country. Craig Roberts asked Hathcock about the marksmanship feat attributed to Oswald by the Warren Commission. Hathcock answered that he did not believe Oswald could have done what the Commission said he did. Added Hathcock:

"Let me tell you what we did at Quantico. We reconstructed the whole thing: the angle, the range, the moving target, the time limit, the obstacles, everything. I don't know how many times we tried it, but we couldn't duplicate what the Warren Commission said Oswald did". (KILL ZONE, pp. 89-90).

Craig Roberts, sniper (USMC), 26-year police veteran, specialist in sniper and counter-sniper tactics, author of the book Kill Zone, which is a professional sniper’s perspective of the JFK assassination, which blows the lone nutter theory right out of the water. (Note: I consider Craig a personal friend and collaborator on the JFK case, and I strongly recommend careful study of his book.

Craig can be reached via email at craig@ionet.net, if memory serves.
Carlos “Gunny” Hathcock, sniper (USMC), the Marine Corps’ premier sniper with 93 confirmed kills including history’s longest single kill-shot of 2,500 meters, nominated for the Congressional Medal of Honor for action in Vietnam, former chief instructor of the USMC Sniper’s School, at Quantico, Virginia. (Note: Gunny Hathcock proved the impossibility of the lone-nutter scenario during tests he personally conducted at Quantico, and although he is now suffering from MS he is still more than happy to poke holes in the lone-nutter scenario. He can be reached through Craig Roberts.) (NOTE: Since the writing of this article, Gunny has gone on his final patrol. God keep you Gunny!

semperfi170
07-29-07, 10:45 PM
A lot of people to this day still don't believe the Warren Commission's findings. It has always seemed highly improbable that a lone shooter using a bolt action rifle could have pulled that off. If memory serves me correctly, Oswald never qualified or never qualified above Marksman. The Commisiion obviously did not rely on the real experts to form its conclusions.

At least with RFK it was evident who did the actual shooting.

semperfi170
07-29-07, 10:46 PM
10thZ:

By the way, why the political advertisement?

10thzodiac
07-29-07, 10:52 PM
10thZ:

By the way, why the political advertisement?

Not an advertisement, it is the next Republican President ! After all I'm a registered Republican and it is still a free country, isn't it ? http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/03.gif

10thzodiac
07-29-07, 11:11 PM
A lot of people to this day still don't believe the Warren Commission's findings. It has always seemed highly improbable that a lone shooter using a bolt action rifle could have pulled that off. If memory serves me correctly, Oswald never qualified or never qualified above Marksman. The Commisiion obviously did not rely on the real experts to form its conclusions.

At least with RFK it was evident who did the actual shooting.

Oswald was a sharpshooter and the Mannlicher-Carcano Italian rifle most critics disparage as a poor choice for use in an assassination. It has a reputation for being notoriously inaccurate' and that the Italians had dubbed it 'the humanitarian rifle' since it was never known to hurt anyone. The Carcano is 'universally condemned as inaccurate and slow' and 'the ammunition is old and unreliable'. ."

BTW, those two shooters on the gassy knoll are buried in the desert ! How do I know, I still have the shovel http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/27.gif

greensideout
07-30-07, 12:43 AM
Oswald was a sharpshooter]


I have always understood that Oswald was a "Marksman", not a "Sharpshooter" as you have said.

bootlace15
07-30-07, 07:54 AM
read this, I worked for the ACCO. Dr Cyril Wecht was my boss. I have all his books,what a genious he is. Believe the truth or don't a fact is a fact,and knowing what this man says,you can believe it. It is highly improbable that Oswald did it alone. If he was even involved. Not enough evidence for me.........

After participating in many hundreds of crime scenes and autopsies,anyone would have a very very hardtime convincing me otherwise. You could'nt ever understand unless you knew what I was talking about.....

bootlace15 out

ggyoung
07-30-07, 11:50 AM
The Mannlicher-Carcano rifle cocks on the bolt going home not on the lifting of the bolt. 95% of bolt action rifles cock on the lifting of the bolt.

jetdawgg
07-30-07, 12:22 PM
A lot of people to this day still don't believe the Warren Commission's findings. It has always seemed highly improbable that a lone shooter using a bolt action rifle could have pulled that off. If memory serves me correctly, Oswald never qualified or never qualified above Marksman. The Commisiion obviously did not rely on the real experts to form its conclusions.

At least with RFK it was evident who did the actual shooting.

Who financed it though?

jetdawgg
07-30-07, 12:26 PM
The Mannlicher-Carcano rifle cocks on the bolt going home not on the lifting of the bolt. 95% of bolt action rifles cock on the lifting of the bolt.

Has anyone seen this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACT0aKWEAow

erased
07-30-07, 12:53 PM
In my opinion, that clip is barely better than the Penn and Teller demo.

10thzodiac
07-30-07, 01:15 PM
I have always understood that Oswald was a "Marksman", not a "Sharpshooter" as you have said.

GSO, you tell me http://www.leatherneck.com/forums/images/icons/icon5.gif

During his Marine Corps service in December 1956, Oswald scored a rating of sharpshooter (twice achieving 48 and 49 out of 50 shots during rapid fire at a stationary target 200 yards [183 m] away using a standard issue M-1 Garand semi-automatic rifle). Although, in May 1959, he qualified as a marksman (a lower classification than that of sharpshooter).

Military experts, after examining his records, characterized his firearms proficiency as "above average" and was, when compared to American civilian males of his age, "an excellent shot".

However, Nelson Delgado, a marine in the same unit as Oswald, used to laugh at Oswald's shooting prowess and testified that Oswald often got "Maggie's drawers". He also said that Oswald didn't seem to care if he missed or not.

redneck13
07-31-07, 05:50 PM
First of all, Oswald was not a marksman, he never qualified period while in the Corps. Second of all, I know the real truth about Kennedy's Death, as I was privy to the Lead FBI investigator who after many yr's of not able to talk about it, he came to the Sheriff's academy I was in at the time, and he told the real story. The sniper in Quantico and other's, haven't yet been able to duplicate what, purported, Oswald did. Most of his rounds hit the bridge in front of the motorcade. I think this subject should be moved to the new site, Politics. End of story.....

FistFu68
07-31-07, 05:56 PM
:evilgrin: ANYONE KNOW,HOW FAR WAS THE 'BAC OF PRESIDENT KENNEDY'S HEAD;FROM WHERE OSWALD WAS IN THE DEPOSITORY WINDOW?AS A STRAIGHT LINE???:evilgrin: :iwo:

redneck13
07-31-07, 05:58 PM
Fits, ain't no way he could see it.....the angles were not in his favor. He was a decoy....I speak the truth. SF

FistFu68
07-31-07, 06:08 PM
:evilgrin: DON'T MATTER,I WANNA KNOW EXACT DISTANCE???AS A BULLET FLIE'S!:evilgrin:

10thzodiac
08-02-07, 08:17 PM
:D Its difficult telling anyone the truth, especially if they know it. I wouldn't tell the president the truth, he knows it already...:p

sparkie
08-02-07, 09:03 PM
Kinda like I know O. J, didn't do it..... And believe me...... I know.

3077India
08-02-07, 09:53 PM
Has anyone seen this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACT0aKWEAowJust watched that video, sure the guy shot as fast as Oswald is alleged, but did the shooter in the video hit anything? The video never shows the target. :confused:

jetdawgg
08-03-07, 10:36 AM
Just watched that video, sure the guy shot as fast as Oswald is alleged, but did the shooter in the video hit anything? The video never shows the target. :confused:

I laughed about that also:D

I guess he got a Maggie

Scottyva
08-04-07, 01:16 PM
Fits, ain't no way he could see it.....the angles were not in his favor. He was a decoy....I speak the truth. SF

So from besides the Mob, Castro ,Loyalists to President Diem and the Soviets can anyone else think of why anybody would want JFK dead?:usmc:

FistFu68
08-04-07, 02:27 PM
:evilgrin: WHEN WAS THIS HEAR SAY CONVERSATION DONE,WITH GUNNY HATHCOCK???WHILE HE WAS AN ACTIVE DUTY MARINE? HOW COME NOTHING LIKE THIS HAS EVERY COME OUT,WHILE MARINE GUNNERY SGT.HATHCOCK WAS ALIVE? DID THIS OTHER SO-CALLED SNIPER SERVE WITH HIM? I'M OPEN MINDED TO MANY THING'S,I KNEW GUNNY HATHCOCK;THIS SOUND'S LIKE A LINE OF SOME VERY DEEP-BULL-CHIT,PROVE ME WRONG!I'M A VERY OPEN MINDED MAN!!! S/F-OH STILL WAITING ON THE DISTANCE,OF THIS SO-CALLED IMPOSSIBLE SHOT???FROM MUZZLE TO THE 'BAC OF HEAD!!!:confused:

HOLM
08-04-07, 02:48 PM
So from besides the Mob, Castro ,Loyalists to President Diem and the Soviets can anyone else think of why anybody would want JFK dead?:usmc:


" He asked if there was an international conspiracy to overthrow our government. The answer is "Yes". I think there are 25,000 individuals that have used offices of powers, and they are in our Universities and they are in our Congresses, and they believe in One World Government. And if you believe in One World Goverment, then you are talking about undermining National Sovereignty and you are talking about setting up something that you could well call a Dictatorship - and those plans are there!..."

10thzodiac
08-04-07, 10:12 PM
The EU and the NAU ~ Two Peas In A Pod!




The formation of the European Union (EU) is the 'blueprint' being used to construct the North American Union (NAU). In an act of tyranny, our government is illegally creating the NAU by using secret meetings and deceptive double-speak to hide their pernicious, TREASONOUS, INCREMENTAL STEALTH. They are making MASSIVE changes to our bureaucratic-administratic-regulatory laws by calling them 'HARMONIZATIONS.' What they are doing is re-writing our legal regulatory law to the benefit OF, BY, and FOR the corporate elite plutocracy. The only difference between the creation of the EU and the NAU is that it took 55 years for the European free trade agreement to morph into the EU. Unless we can stop them, they will accomplish the NAU here in a BREATHTAKING 15 years. The One World Monopolists have already declared before our Congress, that our borders are to be eliminated by 2010. Are you ready for that?

This research will clearly demonstrate what has been created under the EU is EXACTLY what they want to impose upon our Constitutional Republic. How do we know? Because the One World Monopolists have boldly announced their intentions. Dr. Robert A. Pastor, a member of the Council on Foreign Relations (CFR), "told the Trilateral Commission in 2002 that the North American Union needed to implement a series of political proposals which would have authority OVER the sovereignty of the United States, Canada and Mexico.

sparkie
08-04-07, 10:25 PM
10th, you throw around EU and NAU without the slightst idea who the "Boss" is of this push, Count the UN in on that too. And NATO. And the World Court. I can't tell you why this stuff will come about, but it will.You have to figure it out on your own. Perhaps no one here would believe me.,,,,, I wish you well.

HOLM
08-04-07, 10:54 PM
I saw there was going to be a specail on TV.. 20/20 I think...


Talking about how.. Carter Reagan, Bush, Clinton,Bush, Clinton..

Had all met with Billy Graham...

3077India
08-04-07, 11:16 PM
I saw there was going to be a specail on TV.. 20/20 I think...


Talking about how.. Carter Reagan, Bush, Clinton,Bush, Clinton..

Had all met with Billy Graham...I met with Billy Graham; how come they're not doing a special about me... :p :p

10thzodiac
08-05-07, 09:41 AM
We had a falling down drunk named Billy Graham in my first outfit, we called him "preacher" until he shot himself in his leg practicing fast draw with his six shooter.

He sort of hopped when he marched after that and we started calling him Hopalong Cassidy. I think he just wanted out and was putting us on.

He was my L/Colonel radio chief in L-4-11 when I came in as a private. He use to fuk me allot, working parties, poor assignments in the field, TDA infantry war-game umpires, etc. He who laughs last isn't always slow. I made Corporal and he was still a L/Cpl.

Pay-back is the mother of all a b!tches... :yes:

He transfered out to the Mojave Desert. :D

Zulu 36
08-05-07, 10:37 AM
Just watched that video, sure the guy shot as fast as Oswald is alleged, but did the shooter in the video hit anything? The video never shows the target. :confused:

No, the vid doesn't show the target, but it does have a graphic saying he shot at a 10" x 3' post at 150 yards (twice the distance Oswald shot at) and scored all "easy hits." Also, Oswald had a scope, this guys shoots iron sights.

I have shot the same kind of rifle. Admittedly, it isn't the greatest bolt action around, but it is more than capable of the kind of shooting that killed JFK. The true open question is, was the shooter capable of using the rifle that well? Reports I read indicated that Oswald was not a particularly proficient rifle shooter in the Corps.

3077India
08-05-07, 03:07 PM
No, the vid doesn't show the target, but it does have a graphic saying he shot at a 10" x 3' post at 150 yards (twice the distance Oswald shot at) and scored all "easy hits." Also, Oswald had a scope, this guys shoots iron sights.Still doesn't prove he hit the target. :p :nerd:
.

Zulu 36
08-05-07, 05:45 PM
True enough.

I'd bet that he did. A 150-yard shot from the bench at a non-moving target of that size is well within a Mannlicher-Carcano's capability. I could ding all day under those conditions.

kato811
08-05-07, 09:39 PM
If Gunny Hathcock says he don't think Oswald could have made the shot . then he probably dint . as for that video lets put a scope on that rifle an let him try to hit a small moving target.Hell i could hit a target like he was shooting at at that distance if it was stationary. when the target is moving that separates the men from the boys

10thzodiac
08-06-07, 06:27 PM
If Gunny Hathcock says he don't think Oswald could have made the shot . then he probably dint . as for that video lets put a scope on that rifle an let him try to hit a small moving target.Hell i could hit a target like he was shooting at at that distance if it was stationary. when the target is moving that separates the men from the boys

At ITR 1961 they taught us to shoot in the dirt just in front of a moving target to see where you are hitting; not only the ricocheting bullet but dirt and rocks are going to go into your target. We did it with tracers at night too. The silhouette targets were peppered with dirt and rock holes and bullet holes that went in flat sideways.

Anybody else do that ?

FistFu68
08-06-07, 06:35 PM
:evilgrin: THEY HAD US DOING IT A QUANTICO,SHOOTING BUC-SHOT ON PAVEMENT TO SKID IT UNDER HOSTILE VEHICLES;THAT THE BAD-GUY'S WERE USING FOR COVER.VERY GOOD TRAINING! S/F:beer:

10thzodiac
08-06-07, 07:26 PM
:evilgrin: THEY HAD US DOING IT A QUANTICO,SHOOTING BUC-SHOT ON PAVEMENT TO SKID IT UNDER HOSTILE VEHICLES;THAT THE BAD-GUY'S WERE USING FOR COVER.VERY GOOD TRAINING! S/F:beer:

Hey I like that !

Here's a few quid pro quo's for ya !

If they ever have the bloodhounds on your trail walk in a giant figure eight and leave at the center.

If you take cover under evergreens they can't spot you with infra-red they hold the days heat.

jetdawgg
08-07-07, 02:59 PM
By Tim Shipman in Washington, Sunday Telegraph
Last Updated: 2:01am BST 02/07/2007




<!--NO VIEW-->

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD>Lee Harvey Oswald could not have acted alone (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;jsessionid=IFMDX2A2XPDLBQFIQMFSFGGAVCBQ 0IV0?xml=/news/2007/05/18/wjfk18.xml) in assassinating President John F Kennedy, according to a new study by Italian weapons experts of the type of rifle Oswald used in the shootings.

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=307 align=right border=0 hspace="0"><TBODY><TR><TD width=8 rowSpan=2> </TD><TD width=299><CENTER>http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/graphics/2007/07/01/wkennedy101b.jpg</CENTER></TD></TR><TR><TD class=caption><CENTER>The new findings will encourage conspiracy theorists</CENTER></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>In fresh tests of the Mannlicher-Carcano bolt-action weapon, supervised by the Italian army, it was found to be impossible for even an accomplished marksman to fire the shots quickly enough.

The findings will fuel continuing theories that Oswald was part of a larger conspiracy to murder the 35th American president on 22 November 1963.

The official Warren Commission inquiry into the shooting concluded the following year that Oswald was a lone gunman who fired three shots with a Carcano M91/38 bolt-action rifle in 8.3 seconds.

But when the Italian team test-fired the identical model of gun, they were unable to load and fire three shots in less than 19 seconds - suggesting that a second gunman must have been present in Dealey Plaza, central Dallas, that day.

Two of the bullets hit Kennedy, with the first - the so called "magic bullet", ridiculed by conspiracy theorists - also wounding the governor of Texas, John B Connally, after it had struck the president.

In a further challenge to the official conclusions, the Italian team conducted two other tests at the former Carcano factory in Terni, north of Rome, where the murder weapon was made in 1940.

They fired bullets through two large pieces of meat, in an attempt to simulate the assumed path of the magic bullet. In their test, the bullet was deformed, unlike the first bullet in the Kennedy assassination, which remained largely intact.

The second bullet is thought to have missed its target. According to the commission, the third disintegrated when it hit Kennedy's head. The new research suggests, however, that this is incompatible with the fact that Oswald was only 80 yards away, in a book depository, when he fired.

The Italian tests suggest that a bullet fired from that distance would have emerged intact from Kennedy's head, implying that the third shot must instead have come from a more distant location.

The findings will encourage conspiracy theorists who hold that Oswald could not have fired three shots in time. For each shot, he would have had to push up the gun's bolt handle, pull the bolt backwards to eject the spent cartridge case and then forward to slide the next round into the chamber, before turning down the bolt handle to lock it in place.

Nearly seven out of 10 Americans believe that Kennedy was murdered as a result of a plot. Depending on which theory they back, the participants supposedly included any or all of the CIA, the Mafia, the Cubans, the FBI chief J Edgar Hoover, the military-industrial complex and Vice-President Lyndon B Johnson.

It is the second challenge in two months to the view of the Warren Commission that Oswald acted alone. In May, researchers at Texas A&M University argued that the ballistics evidence used to rule out a second gunman had been misinterpreted.

The findings will be a frustration to Vincent Bugliosi, the author of a 1,600-page book (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;jsessionid=IFMDX2A2XPDLBQFIQMFSFGGAVCBQ 0IV0?xml=/news/2007/05/13/woswald13.xml), also published in May, which claimed to put to rest all the conspiracy theories of the past 44 years.

The Italian findings will be hotly contested by those who believe that Oswald was a lone gunman - not least because they contradict firing tests previously conducted, using Oswald's actual rifle, by the FBI and the US Marines, and another study by Washington police marksmen using an identical gun.

Oswald would only have needed to reload the weapon twice in the eight seconds to get off all three shots, since the time was measured only from the moment he fired the first shot. The FBI concluded that a marksman could have fired a shot at least every 2.3 seconds.

In his book, Mr Bugliosi details how after just two or three minutes' practice with the gun in 1979, three police marksmen aiming at three targets representing Kennedy at the same distance from Oswald, got away three shots in less than eight seconds.

One marksman hit the targets twice and missed the third shot by an inch. A second shooter scored a "kill" with his second shot.

Mr Bugliosi recounts three separate ballistics tests that found that the magic bullet could have wounded Kennedy and Connally and emerged in similar condition to the real bullet. But that is unlikely to stop the Italian research fuelling another generation of conspiracy writers.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/07/01/wkennedy101.xml
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Sgt Leprechaun
08-07-07, 03:11 PM
Bugliosi's book is 'the gold standard' in regard to the JFK assassination. It's worth a read for both history buffs and conspiracy theorist's alike.

FistFu68
08-07-07, 04:38 PM
:evilgrin: CHIT,SEEM'S AS THOUGH;OSWALD SHOT EXPERT THAT DAY.MAYBE HIS COUSIN IVAN,OR VINNY.WAS BACKING HIS AZZ UP ON THE GRASSY-KNOLL???:confused:

ggyoung
08-07-07, 08:21 PM
I'm not saying yea or nay on this right now but I have shot 3 jackrabitts in les than 18 seconts with a single shot 22.

dukesix
08-08-07, 09:58 AM
The entire incident stinks to high heaven. Kennedy should have never challenged the Federal Reserve. Look what happens to those who challenge the ones who are in charge of money! <br />
<br />
Dukesix

phantomphixer
08-08-07, 02:52 PM
Telling the heads of state that LBJ in no way had the authority to make policy for the US. To embarrass the VP in such a manner while on foreign soil was beyond comprehension.

Then forgetting why you chose a Texas politician to be your running mate.

Then going to Dallas Texas in an open limousine. Stuff happens.

Kennedy was a fake hero manufactured by his bootlegging daddy. Any PT commander that couldn't hear a Japanese destroyer coming was either asleep or drunk.

To promise rebels air and sea support and leave them hanging. While making deals with the commies to remove your missiles from Turkey if they would remove theirs from Cuba.

Heck I might have took a shot at the POS maggot myself?

dukesix
08-08-07, 03:11 PM
Yep, Phantom, he (Kennedy) was an arrogant sort...wasn't he? People tend to forget that for some reason.

Dukesix

3077India
08-08-07, 04:55 PM
...Kennedy was a fake hero manufactured by his bootlegging daddy. Any PT commander that couldn't hear a Japanese destroyer coming was either asleep or drunk.

To promise rebels air and sea support and leave them hanging. While making deals with the commies to remove your missiles from Turkey if they would remove theirs from Cuba.

Heck I might have took a shot at the POS maggot myself?Sure is terribly convenient that Hollywood left out that tidbit of information when they made the movie.

Zulu 36
08-08-07, 05:43 PM
While I was reading a book about JFK and PT-109 back in the middle 1960s, my father pointed out a few things that I fully understood only after I got into the Marine Corps.

First, he said that JFK was going to be court-martialed for failing to maintain a proper watch while underway. It was mentioned during the WWII years that everyone aboard PT-109 was sleeping, or below decks (or both). It was well known among other PT crews that JFK ran his boat like a frat sail boat. However, Daddy pulled strings and no CM happened.

JFK evidently did do a good job saving the survivors of his crew, but sort of too little, too late. Other PT boat crews were able to see the destroyers' silhouettes well enough to steer clear.

Ever wonder why the destined-for-national-politics son of a high powered and filthy rich Democrat only got a Navy-Marine Corps Medal instead of something bigger (like a Silver Star or Navy Cross)?

phantomphixer
08-08-07, 05:56 PM
"Sure is terribly convenient that Hollywood left out that tidbit of information when they made the movie."


That was in the day of oil/coal fired ships. The Japanese weren't building Lexuses at that time. LOL The PT boat was patrolling and operating under the supposed rules of quite running. Which meant only one engine turning at low speed. The plywood PT boat should have assisted in the amplification of disturbance in the water.

How many Marines have berthed on a modern ship and couldn't sleep for a week after the cruise because the hum wasn't there?

Kennedy was bought into the Navy and was declined once for service because of his physical condition.

I am no fan of Kennedy and I was only making a point with my earlier statement. If in uniform I would have taken the bullet for him. Glad I was on the Grassy Knoll instead. JK

3077India
08-08-07, 07:20 PM
...If in uniform I would have taken the bullet for him. Glad I was on the Grassy Knoll instead. JKSo Instead of taking a bullet for him you gave him a bullet. :p :confused: :nerd:

lucien2
08-09-07, 03:55 PM
KGB seems to be the most likely group that could have pulled this off, they had a ton of sleeper cells in the country at that time. I don't buy the Mafia theory, not sofisticated enough. Our own government, I don't see that either. JMHO.

MOUNTAINWILLIAM
08-09-07, 04:36 PM
Yea; How about the hat industry? JFK didn't wear the traditional hat and the wearing of hats disappeared after he was sworn into office. Just imagine the number of jobs lost worldwide.

On the other hand, maybe ol' LBJ had JFK, RFK and MLK rubbed out. It was well known that Johnson didn't cotton to any of them. Not to forget Hoover and, as mentioned, any number of shady characters and world leaders.

Being in the Catbird seat can be hazardous to your health.

MOUNTAINWILLIAM
08-09-07, 04:38 PM
Yea; How about the hat industry? JFK didn't wear the traditional hat and the wearing of hats disappeared after he was sworn into office. Just imagine the number of jobs lost worldwide.

On the other hand, maybe ol' LBJ had JFK, RFK and MLK rubbed out. It was well known that Johnson didn't cotton to any of them. Not to forget Hoover and, as mentioned, any number of shady characters and world leaders.

Being in the Catbird seat can be hazardous to your health.

DWG
08-09-07, 06:08 PM
Gotta agree with the hatmakers guild! They are a very tight knit group. Any one else would have written a book about it by now. When was the last time you heard of a hatmaker writing a tell all book?:confused: :thumbup: (evil haberdashers rule)

LCPLE3
08-11-07, 10:45 AM
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b38/lcple3/tinfoil-hat.jpg

Wow!!! You guys never heard of a lucky shot?

3077India
08-11-07, 11:26 AM
Wow!!! You guys never heard of a lucky shot?Don't tell us you subscribe to the infamous magic single bullet theory that the Warren Commission promoted in their report.

kato811
08-11-07, 06:14 PM
Lets see you make that lucjy shot

phantomphixer
08-11-07, 07:35 PM
Hey, I saw a one time staement that for several days after the Kennedy assassination that Kodak and other film developers replaced more film due to loss by developer than they had the entire previous year in the entire nation.

I have never been able to find the statement or who said it since. This was before Al Gore created the Internet and I don't remember where I read the statement.

LCPLE3
08-12-07, 08:40 AM
Don't tell us you subscribe to the infamous magic single bullet theory that the Warren Commission promoted in their report.

I have seen bullets do some crazy things. Lets see...3 shots fired with one miss and two hits. Yea sounds like a lucky shot just like the lucky shot that Hathcock made when he shot that enemy sniper through his scope and killed him. A one in a million shot.

LCPLE3
08-12-07, 08:45 AM
Lets see you make that lucjy shot

I shot expert while in the Corps and I would never say that I could make that shot! Like I said before it's a one in million shot but they do happen.

3077India
08-12-07, 09:59 AM
I have seen bullets do some crazy things. Lets see...3 shots fired with one miss and two hits. Yea sounds like a lucky shot just like the lucky shot that Hathcock made when he shot that enemy sniper through his scope and killed him. A one in a million shot.The single bullet theory is that the same bullet that shot Kennedy in the head also made a sudden right turn and hit the Governor of Texas (also riding in the President's car and sitting on the same side as the President) only he was hit in the right should and leg. :nerd: Done the math, but it doesn't quite add up.

Old Marine
08-12-07, 10:00 AM
So from besides the Mob, Castro ,Loyalists to President Diem and the Soviets can anyone else think of why anybody would want JFK dead?:usmc:

The person who benifited most was Johnson. I have always suspected that he was behind the whole thing.

sparkie
08-12-07, 10:24 AM
Onassis Benefitted Nicely ;]

3077India
08-12-07, 01:06 PM
Onassis Benefitted Nicely ;]I agree, besides JFK had been cheating on her for most, if not throughout all, of their marriage. After all the Bible says, "HELL HATH NO FURY LIKE A WOMAN SCORNED." :p

marinegreen
08-12-07, 03:28 PM
Just like it was then, its still the same today............
Politics/politicians is nothing but power hungry fuqs who will lie,cheat,steal to get there wittle names in the tainted record books and to line their pockets. Look at alot of the history we were taught in school the scientist are starting to ? it ! One day the American peeps will wake up and say; "ENOUGH ALREADY !" get the Fuq off the stage !!!

LCPLE3
08-13-07, 12:43 AM
The single bullet theory is that the same bullet that shot Kennedy in the head also made a sudden right turn and hit the Governor of Texas (also riding in the President's car and sitting on the same side as the President) only he was hit in the right should and leg. :nerd: Done the math, but it doesn't quite add up.

No your wrong. The shot that hit the president in the head was not that bullet. Here is a link http://www.archives.gov/research/jfk/warren-commission-report/chapter-2.html#assassination

Like I said before it was a one in million shot.

phantomphixer
08-13-07, 01:28 AM
Why would Oswald, a Corps trained marksman pick a weapon so unfamiliar?

If I were going for the gold I would use my M1A or AR15. Why wouldn't he have used a weapon he was familiar with?

If I only wanted to fire one shot. I would use my Remington 40X with a decent 6 power scope. Good field of view and plenty of magnification for that distance.

3077India
08-13-07, 02:35 AM
No your wrong. The shot that hit the president in the head was not that bullet. Here is a link http://www.archives.gov/research/jfk/warren-commission-report/chapter-2.html#assassination

Like I said before it was a one in million shot.I don't see anything at the link you provided that disproves the single bullet theory attributed to the Warren Commission. Keep in mind that the text presented is incomplete excerpts of the Warren Commission report. Few original "official" copies of the Official report remain in existence. I believe an official copy may be found at the JFK library. :p

Also, please know that I AM NOT A PROPONENT OF THE SINGLE BULLET THEORY I am merely presenting something that has been attributed to the Warren Commission Report. While the movie was purely for entertainment purposes and not necessarily authoritative JFK does present some interesting information in the Courtroom scenes.

LCPLE3
08-13-07, 10:57 AM
I don't see anything at the link you provided that disproves the single bullet theory attributed to the Warren Commission. Keep in mind that the text presented is incomplete excerpts of the Warren Commission report. Few original "official" copies of the Official report remain in existence. I believe an official copy may be found at the JFK library. :p

Also, please know that I AM NOT A PROPONENT OF THE SINGLE BULLET THEORY I am merely presenting something that has been attributed to the Warren Commission Report. While the movie was purely for entertainment purposes and not necessarily authoritative JFK does present some interesting information in the Courtroom scenes.

The report shows how the single bullet could happen.Bullets can and often do go through one person and hit another one behind them. Nothing strange or a conspiracy to be found. The problem with a conspiracy theory is that there is no need to have evidence to support it! :p Whats next? Are you one those that believe that our government brought down the Twin Towers?:mad:
Here are some more links to help you. http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/sbt.htm

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm

3077India
08-13-07, 12:10 PM
The report shows how the single bullet could happen.Bullets can and often do go through one person and hit another one behind them. Nothing strange or a conspiracy to be found. The problem with a conspiracy theory is that there is no need to have evidence to support it! :p
Conspiracy Theories arise when the Official Gov't position doesn't match all the facts. It is this kind of discrepancy that beckons questioning. They are called Conspiracy Theories, because they are out of step with the Official Stated Position; as such they are sneered at by those who don't like to think that their gov't would be so crooked or dishonest.

Whats next? Are you one of those who believes your gov't can do no wrong and would never deceive the people? :nerd:

Here is a conspiracy theory that has evidence to support its assertions (http://physics911.net/).

LCPLE3
08-13-07, 12:45 PM
Conspiracy Theories arise when the Official Gov't position doesn't match all the facts. It is this kind of discrepancy that beckons questioning. They are called Conspiracy Theories, because they are out of step with the Official Stated Position; as such they are sneered at by those who don't like to think that their gov't would be so crooked or dishonest.

Whats next? Are you one of those who believes your gov't can do no wrong and would never deceive the people? :nerd:

Here is a conspiracy theory that has evidence to support its assertions (http://physics911.net/).

OMG!!!!You do believe that our government did bring down the Twin Towers!!!!

Are these the same scientists that can prove that the earth was created in six days?:D

Yes our government can do things that some might not agree with but to say they would do that (Twin Towers) is just plain crazy.

3077India
08-13-07, 01:09 PM
OMG!!!!You do believe that our government did bring down the Twin Towers!!!!

Are these the same scientists that can prove that the earth was created in six days?:D

Yes our government can do things that some might not agree with but to say they would do that (Twin Towers) is just plain crazy.

No, I never that said that I believed it; you asserted,
"The problem with a conspiracy theory is that there is no need to have evidence to support it!"All I did was provide you with a link to a site that claims to have evidence supporting their point of view.

OMG!!!! You really do believe our gov't can do no wrong and would never deceive the people!!!!:confused:

And what's up with the creation reference anyway?

sdk87to91
08-13-07, 07:30 PM
Bullets got to go somewhere.
As an Elk guide I have seen some really amazing lucky shots by total bad shooters. I have made amazingly lucky shots myself. Running rabbits from the hip for example. Bad form for a hunter ed instructor I know, but I wasnt then.

LCPLE3
08-13-07, 08:43 PM
No, I never that said that I believed it; you asserted,All I did was provide you with a link to a site that claims to have evidence supporting their point of view.

OMG!!!! You really do believe our gov't can do no wrong and would never deceive the people!!!!:confused:

And what's up with the creation reference anyway?

Your the one that posted this...

Here is a conspiracy theory that has evidence to support its assertions (http://physics911.net/).

When you post something like that it suggests that you do believe what they are saying. You have the right to believe in anything you want but I have the right to say it's crazy.

And I repeat myself...Yes our government can do things that some might not agree with but to say they would do that (Twin Towers) is just plain crazy.

These so called scientists(from the website you posted) that state that the planes crashing could not have cause the Twin Towers to collapse is just crazy and not based on real science. So I say again...Are these the same scientists that can prove that the earth was created in six days?;)

Believe what you want, but for me I need real evidence from unbiased scientists from a legitimate website!
:D

jarhead826
08-13-07, 08:59 PM
Face it; no one knows what really happened; I don't care 'who' you knew...if you knew, the world would too.

3077India
08-13-07, 09:47 PM
Your the one that posted this...

Here is a conspiracy theory that [possibly] has evidence to support its assertions (http://physics911.net/).

When you post something like that it suggests that you do believe what they are saying. You have the right to believe in anything you want but I have the right to say it's crazy.

And I repeat myself...Yes our government can do things that some might not agree with but to say they would do that (Twin Towers) is just plain crazy.

These so called scientists(from the website you posted) that state that the planes crashing could not have cause the Twin Towers to collapse is just crazy and not based on real science. So I say again...Are these the same scientists that can prove that the earth was created in six days?;)

Believe what you want, but for me I need real evidence from unbiased scientists from a legitimate website! I do concede that I did, in fact, leave out a word--'possibly' should've gone after 'that';:nerd: however, you've made an assumption and when you assume you make and an A$$-U-ME.:p

I'm not talking about things our gov't does that we might not agree with, I'm talking about lying and deception by our gov't. It is wishful thinking to believe that our gov't doesn't lie and work deception; both are tools of Statecraft.

As for the creation reference it has absolutely no relevance to this discussion.

LCPLE3
08-14-07, 12:51 AM
I do concede that I did, in fact, leave out a word--'possibly' should've gone after 'that';however, you've made an assumption and when you assume you make and an A$$-U-ME.:p

I'm not talking about things our gov't does that we might not agree with, I'm talking about lying and deception by our gov't. It is wishful thinking to believe that our gov't doesn't lie and work deception; both are tools of Statecraft.

As for the creation reference it has absolutely no relevance to this discussion.

Well your half right about assume!:p

So your now saying that the earth was created in 6 days? When are you going to bring aliens and bigfoot into this thread?:D

3077India
08-14-07, 01:34 AM
...So your now saying that the earth was created in 6 days? When are you going to bring aliens and bigfoot into this thread?:DThere you go again, making assumptions. :p

LCPLE3
08-14-07, 01:42 AM
There you go again, making assumptions. :p

Once again your half right!:p

nilbud
08-19-07, 12:16 AM
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b38/lcple3/tinfoil-hat.jpg

Wow!!! You guys never heard of a lucky shot?
Ahh, still laughing at that one.

Wasn't his seat in a different position, higher and to the left due to armoring of the car. It kills the magic bullet line of reasoning apparently.