Is it UN-PATRIOTIC to be against the "war?"

[3077India]

Just a bit curious as to your thoughts on this question--

Does it show a lack of patriotism to disapprove of the so-called "War on Terrorism?"Simple closed ended question, but I hope all of you will post your thoughts on this.

[jetdawgg]

The WOT could be administered a lot better than it is. I expect a lot more from the people we put into office.

[3077India]

Where I work we have a redneck idiot Administrator who likes to express his opinion on the WOT. Last month before the June rotation began, he said, "You either support the war and the troops or you don't, there isn't any of this I support the troops, but not the war." He got a weak round of applause from his grandstanding.

I'm one of those who supports the troops, but not the war. If I didn't support our troops I wouldn't have become a roleplayer at JRTC @ Ft Polk. I enjoy helping train our troops before they deploy, but I hate the fact that it is for that war.

I am very much a patriot and love my country, but our presence in Iraq has been too long and we should've been out by this time.

[003XXMarineDAD]

I voted yes , but I'am sure that is no surprise to some of these Marines on here.
I have a son serving right now and he deserves better then to have someone tell him they support him but not the misson.
His job is the mission to which ever CIC is in office decides right or wrong.
Heck yes mistakes have been made , but show me a war that has not.
I will support my son and the ones serving all the way even if it has a tendence to upset the one's that post all the DNC talking points all the time.

:D

[JCam0331]

Just a bit curious as to your thoughts on this question--
Simple closed ended question, but I hope all of you will post your thoughts on this.

For the 6 of you who voted YES to this question, you REALLY need to go and take a class on the US Constitution.

I'm dead serious.

[rheinmark187]

why is it the "so called" war on terrorism? We've killed/captured quite a few terrorists.

[JCam0331]

yes the wording of the poll is slightly biased but the meaning is all the same.

now 9 have voted yes. All 9 of you need a lesson in the US Constitution.

[rheinmark187]

so, you joined the Marine Corps in 2004, after 9/11 after we invaded Afghanistan and MOST of all, after we invaded Iraq. Yet you don't support the war on terror, and you don't even believe the name is accurate? Before we start to assume things about you, it would be nice if you explained how you came to feel this way.

[Sgt Leprechaun]

For the 6 of you who voted YES to this question, you REALLY need to go and take a class on the US Constitution.

I'm dead serious.

Really? Funny, I TAUGHT Constitutional law. Please, o wise one, enlighten this poor unwashed heathen...

[HOLM]

Bad wording of the question.. It is to vague...

You could also ask...

Is it un patriotic to approve of the war?


What is the point of the question? Yes you don't have to agree with every aspect of the war to be Patriotic...


BUT....



When your ideas, and the points you would want to share, line up damn near word for word with the government ran Iranian (Sworn enemy of the U.S, btw) Press, like Propeller puppy's do, can you still be considered a Patriot? and if so.. of which frign country?


I mean come on.. His good buddy pointed out all on his own that his ideas were shared by Bin Laden..

[JCam0331]

so, you joined the Marine Corps in 2004, after 9/11 after we invaded Afghanistan and MOST of all, after we invaded Iraq. Yet you don't support the war on terror, and you don't even believe the name is accurate? Before we start to assume things about you, it would be nice if you explained how you came to feel this way.

I'm sorry? Are you talking to me because I have nothing against the wording of the war on terror.

Americans have the right to disagree with the conflicts that our government chooses to engage in and still love our dear country at the same time.

[213]

I voted "no", because, though I personally support the WOT, I can understand how others donot. After all of the lies administrations have fed the U.S. public, I find it fairly reasonable for people so inclined to believe that it is all a bunch of hogwash used hide intentions of imperialism and corporate greed/corruption. Most people I know who are on that train of thought therefore donot support the WOT itself, but support the troops fighting it, as "they are doing what they are told too as best as they can".

Again, not my personal feelings on the matter. From my point of view, the bottom line is that Islamic Extremists(Al-Queda & otherwise) have been waging war against the United States and our allies for 20 years now, and anyone who will attempt to kill my family, my friends and my fellow countrymen/women simply because of the way we choose to live or because of an intense inbred jealousy, deserves the same. Perhaps to some that is wrong, but it is my opinion.

[3077India]

why is it the "so called" war on terrorism? We've killed/captured quite a few terrorists.So called, because that is the term that the CIC, members of Congress and the media have chosen to call it irregardless of the fact that Congress has not actually declared a war. All Congress did was give its approval for military action.

Even when I first supported invading Iraq to remove Sodamn Insane, when I believed what Bush had told us, I had serious reservations over calling it a war.

I know that I'm quibbling over semantics, but the meaning of words is important. Just as it was important to refraining from calling the prisoners in Quantanomo POW's, because as such POW's are allowed certain rights under the Geneva Convention. But I digress...

[3077India]

Bad wording of the question.. It is to vague...

You could also ask...

Is it un patriotic to approve of the war?


What is the point of the question? Yes you don't have to agree with every aspect of the war to be Patriotic...The question was worded as such, since Proponents accuse Opponents of being un-patriotic by not supporting the war.

[JCam0331]

I voted "no", because, though I personally support the WOT, I can understand how others donot. After all of the lies administrations have fed the U.S. public, I find it fairly reasonable for people so inclined to believe that it is all a bunch of hogwash used hide intentions of imperialism and corporate greed/corruption. Most people I know who are on that train of thought therefore donot support the WOT itself, but support the troops fighting it, as "they are doing what they are told too as best as they can".

Again, not my personal feelings on the matter. From my point of view, the bottom line is that Islamic Extremists(Al-Queda & otherwise) have been waging war against the United States and our allies for 20 years now, and anyone who will attempt to kill my family, my friends and my fellow countrymen/women simply because of the way we choose to live or because of an intense inbred jealousy, deserves the same. Perhaps to some that is wrong, but it is my opinion.

very well said 213. Ooorah

[jetdawgg]

I call it the "War Of Errors". The truth of the matter is that our nation has been hijacked by corporate greed and hacks who bought the politicians and have created this mess.

These people don't hate us because of 'our way of life'. The USA Foreign Policy is not scaleable. It is slanted to where we now have isolated nearly all of the alliances we won over the previous century.

Our global standing is in shreds. This has happened just within the past 4-5 years. Our nation is experiencing a foreign policy crash just like a stock market crash.

We need new leadership that is firm, fair and flexible with the decisions that have to be made. Creating deficits as large as we have now are just profoundly insane. Particularly when they are created on a foundation of half truths, lies and misinformation.

Circumventing the laws has put on a course that have countries like Ireland, Holland, Jamaica and others wondering how much longer the USA is going to 'stay the course' of international lawlessness.

I travel quite a bit and have the pleasure of meeting people from all over the world. The message I get from them is the same no matter where they come from: What the hell is going on with you Americans?

[3077India]

...I have a son serving right now and he deserves better then to have someone tell him they support him but not the misson. His job is the mission to which ever CIC is in office decides right or wrong...I'll try to explain it so you can understand it. When I state that I support our troops, but not the war; that means I support what they do, but not the D**N Politicians who put them in harms way.:nerd:

[213]

These people don't hate us because of 'our way of life'. The USA Foreign Policy is not scaleable. It is slanted to where we now have isolated nearly all of the alliances we won over the previous century.

So are you implying that:
The bombing of Pan Am flight 830 in '82
The Beruit U.S. Embassy bombing in '83
The bombing of the Marine Barracks in Beruit in '83
The hijacking of TWA flight 847 in '85
The bombing of TWA flight 840 in '86
The bombing of the WTC in '93
The murder of two American consulate workers in '95 in Pakistan
The Khobar Towers bombing in '96
The shootings at the Empire State Building in '97
The bombing of U.S. Embassies in Tanzania and Kenya in '98
The attempted bombing of LAX by Ahmed Ressam in '99 The attempted bombing of the U.S.S. Sullivans in '00
The bombing of the U.S.S. Cole in '00

as well as attacks carried out by Islamic Extremists on the U.K. and France, were also due to current U.S. Foreign Policy?

[3077India]

So are you implying that:
The bombing of Pan Am flight 830 in '82
The Beruit U.S. Embassy bombing in '83
The bombing of the Marine Barracks in Beruit in '83
The hijacking of TWA flight 847 in '85
The bombing of TWA flight 840 in '86
The bombing of the WTC in '93
The murder of two American consulate workers in '95 in Pakistan
The Khobar Towers bombing in '96
The shootings at the Empire State Building in '97
The bombing of U.S. Embassies in Tanzania and Kenya in '98
The attempted bombing of LAX by Ahmed Ressam in '99 The attempted bombing of the U.S.S. Sullivans in '00
The bombing of the U.S.S. Cole in '00

as well as attacks carried out by Islamic Extremists on the U.K. and France, were also due to current U.S. Foreign Policy?THEY HATE US BECAUSE WE DON'T SUBMIT TO THE WILL OF ALLAH AND ENFORCE HIS LAW AS STATED IN THE HOLY KORAN.

[jetdawgg]

So are you implying that:
The bombing of Pan Am flight 830 in '82
The Beruit U.S. Embassy bombing in '83
The bombing of the Marine Barracks in Beruit in '83
The hijacking of TWA flight 847 in '85
The bombing of TWA flight 840 in '86
The bombing of the WTC in '93
The murder of two American consulate workers in '95 in Pakistan
The Khobar Towers bombing in '96
The shootings at the Empire State Building in '97
The bombing of U.S. Embassies in Tanzania and Kenya in '98
The attempted bombing of LAX by Ahmed Ressam in '99 The attempted bombing of the U.S.S. Sullivans in '00
The bombing of the U.S.S. Cole in '00

as well as attacks carried out by Islamic Extremists on the U.K. and France, were also due to current U.S. Foreign Policy?

213, these are symptoms do to the foreign policy that we have implemented over the past 25 years or so.

See this video please:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpUZiud98lE

[mrbsox]

Partly because of the way the question was phrased;


Does it show a lack of patriotism to disapprove of the so-called "War on Terrorism?"

Let us not confuse the "WAR ON TERRORISM" with the BATTLES going on in Iraq and Afganistan. The WAR is much broader than what MSNBC and FOX can put on in an hour telecast. What our troops are operating in are "BATTLE ZONE" theaters.

"...to disaprove of the so-called "War on Terrorism?" would be to say 'sure, come on over here and change my way of life, and all I believe in'.

I DON'T THINK SO !! :mad: :flag:

[3077India]

...Let us not confuse the "WAR ON TERRORISM" with the BATTLES going on in Iraq and Afganistan... ...What our troops are operating in are "BATTLE ZONE" theaters.To reiterate Congress has not declared War, only approved Military Action. The problem with the so-called WOT is that the CIC is trying to fight an UN-CONVENTIONAL "WAR" in a CONVENTIONAL way.


"...to disaprove of the so-called "War on Terrorism?" would be to say 'sure, come on over here and change my way of life, and all I believe in'...You certainly are free to interpret it any way you see fit, but that definitely isn't what was implied.

[drumcorpssnare]

The "so-called" war on terror? Surely a consequence of the "so-called" attacks on the WTC, Pentagon, etc.

drumcorpssnare:usmc:

[003XXMarineDAD]

but not the D**N Politicians who put them in harms way.:nerd:<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->
Both sides of the isle helped put them there, so they are all guilty if you use that as a rule.
Both sides had the same intel even if it was not correct.
Now four years later the ones that made that dession in 02 to put the cross hairs on Saddam want a mulligan for that vote.
I say if you can not stand on your vote then, do not ask me to be the spineless one now after the world is not a bed of roses that some politicol promised us.
Right now neither party is my favorite, they both are spineless.
:devious:

[FistFu68]

:evilgrin: ASK THE TALIBAN,WHAT THEY THINK OF OUR CONSTITUTION?:evilgrin:

[hrscowboy]

Fork the Koran and anyone else that says we are the greatest nation of all. I am sick and tired of people thinking they can have freedom and the right to say what they think if they dont want to fight for the freedom..

[jetdawgg]

hrs most here are Marines:

Freedom is not free, but the U.S. Marine Corps will pay most of your share.
Ned Dolan

[213]

213, these are symptoms do to the foreign policy that we have implemented over the past 25 years or so.

I whole-heartedly agree, but I think that foreign policy is only a slice of the pie. There have to be other reasons than that, after all, the U.S. & the British/Commonwealth are by no means the only nations actively engaging Islamic Extremists(as I'm sure you're well aware), and a few of those other nations have no real clout in the realm of international affairs(per se).

But, even if foreign policy was the sole reason behind the intense hatred they feel, and the subsequent attacks, what do you think we could do to change that?

[jetdawgg]

213, we need to educate, job train and engage in peaceful negotiations.

This war is expensive. Those other approaches are less costly and less destructive. They allow us to rebuild our national infrastructure so we don't have to deal with any more "Katrinas".

We will be able to protect our ports. We can have sound energy policy. Currently the US military is dependent upon oil. Whose plan was this again?

Let's take care of America First, second, third....

[hrscowboy]

Thats the problem with The United States today everyone should have to serve no matter what. I done my time my sons have done there time and i am damnnnnnnn proud of anyone that steps up to the plate and does there time. Screw a bunch of Foreign Policy we dont need it anymore secure the borders and tell everyone We are done Fightin your Wars.. Now for the Kicker we need to be more like certain countrys if you draw blood on any american person, ships planes you will pay the big price.. Talkin is for wamby mambys ..
buttom line if your not willing to fight for your freedoms then get out of my country and dont ask to come back.. better yet our government should deport the arses that dont want to fight or question or government..

[HOLM]

we need to educate, job train and engage in peaceful negotiations.



I move that we vote to send Propeller Puppy over to the streets of Baghdad to "engage in Peaceful negotiations" with AQ, and then to the hills of Afghan to have a chat with the Taliban... If he is successful there we can send him to have "Peaceful negotiations" with Hamas..


Sounds like a good plan.. Wana try it?

[FistFu68]

:evilgrin: YEA IT IS PRETTY~BAD,WHEN YOU HAVE HOMELESS VET'S ;SLEEPING UNDERNEATH THE BRIDGES IN MY HOMETOWN.CAN'T EVEN GET SDI-OR SSI.WHILE A BUNCH OF ILLEGIAL WET-BAC'S,ARE COLLECTING WELFARE,FOODSTAMP'S,MEDICAL CARE YOU NAME IT? ONLY IN AMERICA,LAND OF THE FREE;BECAUSE OF THE BRAVE...:mad: :iwo:

[jetdawgg]

I move that we vote to send Propeller Puppy over to the streets of Baghdad to "engage in Peaceful negotiations" with AQ, and then to the hills of Afghan to have a chat with the Taliban... If he is successful there we can send him to have "Peaceful negotiations" with Hamas..


Sounds like a good plan.. Wana try it?

That would upset your AIPAC buddies. I AM a success:usmc:

[jetdawgg]

And to top it off Fist, there are people in charge of placing Marine Heros in danger like that who are not fit to shine the boots that we wear/have worn...

[hrscowboy]

We need to take care of our own and to hell with the rest as far as i am concerned..

[Sgt Leprechaun]

"Educate, job train, etc etc".

That is wishful thinking. The 9/11 guys weren't 3d world goatherds. UBL isn't some guy who was raised in a mudhut.

[bootlace15]

it does'nt matter how you vote. The politicians have only one thing in mind. We will listen to what you say and vote how we want. Then we'll listen some more and lie some more and when it comes time to vote we'll say yes to your ideas to secure your vote,then after we are elected again,we will continue to lie some more and feeding you sh!t that you want to hear,and get reelected again. Now thats war on terror..... They got us there,but can't seem to let our Marines,soldiers,sailors and airman just do the job and finally put an end to all this crap........

bootlace15 out

[kato811]

i support the troops but i do not support the administration that sent them

[greensideout]

it does'nt matter how you vote. The politicians have only one thing in mind. We will listen to what you say and vote how we want. Then we'll listen some more and lie some more and when it comes time to vote we'll say yes to your ideas to secure your vote,then after we are elected again,we will continue to lie some more and feeding you sh!t that you want to hear,and get reelected again. Now thats war on terror..... They got us there,but can't seem to let our Marines,soldiers,sailors and airman just do the job and finally put an end to all this crap........

bootlace15 out


In part I agree. The "end of all this crap" cannot be accomplished in Iraq however, as the war on terrorism (Islam) will be a worldwide event. Iraq is not the problem, never was! This administration just somehow decided to make that the focus of the event and tell the American people to send more tax dollars and to stay the course.

Before you jump---lol---I voted for this administration. I'm not a leftwing nutcase, just someone that sees that America is headed down the wrong road with this war.

[JCam0331]

To reiterate Congress has not declared War, only approved Military Action. The problem with the so-called WOT is that the CIC is trying to fight an UN-CONVENTIONAL "WAR" in a CONVENTIONAL way.

You certainly are free to interpret it any way you see fit, but that definitely isn't what was implied.

the CIC? More like the entire US war machine (minus USSOCOM) is fighting an unconventional war conventionally

[JCam0331]

Both sides of the isle helped put them there, so they are all guilty if you use that as a rule.
Both sides had the same intel even if it was not correct.
Now four years later the ones that made that dession in 02 to put the cross hairs on Saddam want a mulligan for that vote.
I say if you can not stand on your vote then, do not ask me to be the spineless one now after the world is not a bed of roses that some politicol promised us.
Right now neither party is my favorite, they both are spineless.
:devious:

both are spineless?

what is having a spine then? Uncontrolled aggression ala Germany in 1939??

[HOLM]

both are spineless?

what is having a spine then? Uncontrolled aggression ala Germany in 1939??


Nope... It is sitting there watching "Uncontrolled aggression ala Germany in 1939" and not doing a damn thing about it...

And in fact.. Standing in the way of doing something about it at every opportunity..


Hitler gave plenty of warnings.. So have the scumbags in the Middle East..

[jetdawgg]

Nope... It is sitting there watching "Uncontrolled aggression ala Germany in 1939" and not doing a damn thing about it...

And in fact.. Standing in the way of doing something about it at every opportunity..


Hitler gave plenty of warnings.. So have the scumbags in the Middle East..

The ones occupying Palestine?

[HOLM]

The ones occupying Palestine?

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x236/ronholm/freepalestinemeanskillthejews.jpg







http://www.tow.com/photogallery/2002/20020420_sf_protest/images/fullsize/2002-04-20_1318-21.jpg

[HOLM]

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x236/ronholm/url.jpg

[jetdawgg]

This is what US aid to Israel looks like

http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20070627/i/r2056233931.jpg?x=380&y=258&sig=gM2VLLT1gI41.o8RczKHOg--



Wed Jun 27, 6:18 AM ET
A Palestinian woman carries her daughter after she was injured by an Israeli tank shell in Gaza June 27, 2007. Israeli forces killed at least 10 Palestinians, most of them gunmen, on Wednesday in their biggest raid in the Gaza Strip since Hamas Islamists took over the territory two weeks ago, medical workers and residents said. REUTERS/Ismail Zaydah (GAZA (http://news.yahoo.com/photo/070627/ids_photos_wl/r2056233931.jpg/print;_ylt=AqHtnsoVaT3MkZamXj_6NraaK8MA))

http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20070627/capt.3dbc3a1f7db34e358c4dba2b7b0fb40d.mideast_isra el_palestinians__jrl104.jpg?x=380&y=250&sig=gHt8VC.yw1quHchvp4l4Ag--



Wed Jun 27, 5:40 AM ET
The bodies of two wounded Palestinians are seen inside a car as they are taken to the Shifa hospital in Gaza City, Wednesday June 27, 2007. Israeli attacks in the Gaza Strip on Wednesday killed eight Palestinians, including a 12-year-old boy, Palestinians said, the bloodiest fighting in the area since the Hamas militant group violently seized control two weeks ago. (AP Photo/Hatem Moussa (http://news.yahoo.com/photo/070627/481/3dbc3a1f7db34e358c4dba2b7b0fb40d/print;_ylt=Arw6h2.UWpkTOBdk0b8D6fPlWMcF))


http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/nm/20070627/2007_06_27t051921_328x450_us_palestinians_israel.j pg?x=251&y=345&sig=2bue7xvxHE.t67GdC4_2cQ--


Wed Jun 27, 10:42 AM ET
A woman carries a girl injured by an Israeli tank shell in Gaza June 27, 2007. (Ismail Zaydah/Reuters) (http://news.yahoo.com/photo/070627/photos_wl/2007_06_27t051921_328x450_us_palestinians_israel/print;_ylt=AoqYR7ss_1Jd.Y92LhtHkA2aK8MA)


http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/afp/20070627/capt.sge.rlu83.270607174511.photo01.photo.default-512x323.jpg?x=380&y=239&sig=SHfs25DKD36DqFtTcj1l6g--


Wed Jun 27, 2:25 PM ET
A wounded Palestinian child lies on a hospital trolley in Gaza City following an Israeli offensive. Nine Palestinians were killed on Wednesday as Israel launched twin offensives in the Gaza Strip, triggering the deadliest violence since Hamas fighters overran the territory 12 days ago.(AFP/Mohammed Abed (http://news.yahoo.com/photo/070627/photos_wl_afp/793ce2e2cbda0b997c38c24e68ad7796/print;_ylt=ApUaxIsONjbKnHgbK7uZx.cZO7gF))

http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/nm/20070627/2007_06_27t115329_336x450_us_palestinians_israel.j pg?x=257&y=345&sig=3ifgw9__sTzTZLnzM6XE3g--


Wed Jun 27, 3:48 PM ET
A wounded Palestinian woman lies on the ground after she was injured by an Israeli tank shell in Gaza, June 27, 2007. (Ismail Zaydah/Reuters (http://news.yahoo.com/photo/070627/photos_wl/2007_06_27t115329_336x450_us_palestinians_israel/print;_ylt=ArRpySoFj1JZ1zoxW4io0DaaK8MA))

http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20070627/capt.023dcbff4a5d4805abada8aa5b7bbb6b.mideast_isra el_palestinians__jrl102.jpg?x=380&y=270&sig=PBUZO5B701JY1e9Zj3EUPQ--


Wed Jun 27, 5:30 AM ET
A Palestinian man carries a wounded boy at the Shifa hospital in Gaza City,Wednesday, June 27, 2007. Israeli attacks in the Gaza Strip on Wednesday killed eight Palestinians, including a 12-year-old boy, Palestinians said, the bloodiest fighting in the area since the Hamas militant group violently seized control two weeks ago. (AP Photo/Hatem Moussa (http://news.yahoo.com/photo/070627/481/023dcbff4a5d4805abada8aa5b7bbb6b/print;_ylt=Ar7vMwd._1nibZojXi.GC73lWMcF))



http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/nm/20070627/2007_06_27t055313_450x346_us_palestinians_israel.j pg?x=380&y=291&sig=yJ7exy0BVMOGkbAwfJPHDg--


Wed Jun 27, 8:46 AM ET
A Palestinian woman carries her daughter after she was injured by an Israeli tank shell in Gaza June 27, 2007. (Ismail Zaydah/Reuters (http://news.yahoo.com/photo/070627/photos_wl/2007_06_27t055313_450x346_us_palestinians_israel/print;_ylt=AlFb0Trf2qxLVlI7wrXqfeuaK8MA))

http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20070627/capt.ec4c27cf81354d45b52df0c8e41d8e92.mideast_isra el_palestinians__jrl149.jpg?x=274&y=345&sig=Pilqgn4xlABjrEjuZw8gKQ-- (http://news.yahoo.com/photo/070627/photos_wl_afp/8ac28d2330c3cef39a63a7ee48db4169/print;_ylt=AqDmwHge5PYpMyJbS0XeDFAZO7gF)


Wed Jun 27, 10:50 AM ET
A Palestinian man carries a boy who was wounded in an Israeli army operation into Shifa hospital in Gaza City, June 27, 2007. Israeli attacks in the Gaza Strip on Wednesday killed ten Palestinians, including a 12-year-old boy, Palestinians said, the bloodiest fighting in the area since the Hamas militant group violently seized control two weeks ago. (AP Photo/Majed Hamdan) (http://news.yahoo.com/photo/070627/481/ec4c27cf81354d45b52df0c8e41d8e92/print;_ylt=AmaSAVy4F3I8U40GEB7LXgHlWMcF)
http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20070627/i/r3321472330.jpg?x=380&y=278&sig=OVHrAvgBn7FzMSUKD28D2Q-- (http://news.yahoo.com/photo/070627/481/ec4c27cf81354d45b52df0c8e41d8e92/print;_ylt=AmaSAVy4F3I8U40GEB7LXgHlWMcF)


Wed Jun 27, 9:29 AM ET
Palestinian children wait in line to receive food distributed at a soup kitchen in the West Bank city of Hebron June 27, 2007. REUTERS/Nayef Hashlamoun (WEST BANK (http://news.yahoo.com/photo/070627/ids_photos_wl/r3321472330.jpg/print;_ylt=AktBxlYrOE4DqfjlTNtiwbyaK8MA))
http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20070627/i/r1871323924.jpg?x=380&y=230&sig=XYFncK0v3wIVsVLZdECNVw--


Wed Jun 27, 6:14 AM ET
People carry a wounded Palestinian girl (L) and a boy after they were injured by an Israeli tank shell in Gaza June 27, 2007. Israeli forces killed at least 10 Palestinians, most of them gunmen, on Wednesday in their biggest raid in the Gaza Strip since Hamas Islamists took over the territory two weeks ago, medical workers and residents said. REUTERS/Ismail Zaydah (GAZA (http://news.yahoo.com/photo/070627/ids_photos_wl/r1871323924.jpg/print;_ylt=AkzPQjZnjw8QAdkK9g7MJeyaK8MA))
http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20070627/capt.7bd4b500d8564a90a84d19909ca581e9.mideast_isra el_palestinians__jrl101.jpg?x=245&y=345&sig=dwnrDd.OQH7jMy1thK2H4g--


Wed Jun 27, 5:26 AM ET
A Palestinian woman carries her wounded daughter at the Shifa hospital in Gaza City, Wednesday June 27, 2007. Israeli attacks in the Gaza Strip on Wednesday killed eight Palestinians, including a 12-year-old boy, Palestinians said, the bloodiest fighting in the area since the Hamas militant group violently seized control two weeks ago. (AP Photo/Hatem Moussa) (http://news.yahoo.com/photo/070627/481/7bd4b500d8564a90a84d19909ca581e9/print;_ylt=ApDNoNifmvn7G2WBlZv1UXDlWMcF)


http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20070627/i/r204360231.jpg?x=380&y=247&sig=yokrBihZR9IyKzDbcNq8lw--


Wed Jun 27, 9:29 AM ET
Palestinian children wait in line to receive food distributed at a soup kitchen in the West Bank city of Hebron June 27, 2007. REUTERS/Nayef Hashlamoun (WEST BANK) (http://news.yahoo.com/photo/070627/ids_photos_wl/r204360231.jpg/print;_ylt=AkmQFBukCo.HPhGf6z4XjS6aK8MA)
http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20070627/capt.24051c1d6bc04a0a8a20017f35caec75.aptopix_mide ast_israel_palestinians__jrl113.jpg?x=236&y=345&sig=gc8bfV7xKG8ry_RYrM5a7A-- (http://news.yahoo.com/photo/070627/ids_photos_wl/r204360231.jpg/print;_ylt=AkmQFBukCo.HPhGf6z4XjS6aK8MA)


Wed Jun 27, 9:02 AM ET
Palestinians carry the body of a badly wounded man at the Shifa hospital in Gaza City, Wednesday June 27, 2007. Israeli attacks in the Gaza Strip on Wednesday killed eight Palestinians, including a 12-year-old boy, Palestinians said, the bloodiest fighting in the area since the Hamas militant group violently seized control two weeks ago. (AP Photo/Hatem Moussa) (http://news.yahoo.com/photo/070627/481/24051c1d6bc04a0a8a20017f35caec75/print;_ylt=AuCwIp23V0K4UUe_1QZGGxnlWMcF)
http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20070627/i/r2020916273.jpg?x=380&y=291&sig=WjWLby._AmDkQ.11s4qzRA-- (http://news.yahoo.com/photo/070627/481/24051c1d6bc04a0a8a20017f35caec75/print;_ylt=AuCwIp23V0K4UUe_1QZGGxnlWMcF)


Wed Jun 27, 5:07 AM ET
A woman carries a Palestinian girl injured from an Israeli tank shell in Gaza June 27, 2007. Israeli forces killed at least 10 Palestinians, most of them gunmen, on Wednesday in their biggest raid in the Gaza Strip since Hamas Islamists took over the territory two weeks ago, medical workers and residents said. REUTERS/Ismail Zaydah (GAZA (http://news.yahoo.com/photo/070627/ids_photos_wl/r2020916273.jpg/print;_ylt=ArYUttVJXs_k6G8lC9mFmvGaK8MA))

http://www.wakeupfromyourslumber.com/node/2292

[HOLM]

UN PATRIOTIC..


:thumbdown:thumbdown


The the "wake up" site... Called it a MUST READ


http://wakeupfromyourslumber.blogspot.com/2006/06/marines-in-haditha-totally-tweaked-out.html



Marines in Haditha “totally tweaked out on speed”


The US is so screwed. Not only are eyewitnesses recounting more grisly details of the massacre in Haditha but reports are emerging of rampant drug and alcohol abuse among the marines involved.Thaer al-Hadithi, (http://apnews.excite.com/article/20060607/D8I3I9J01.html) a member and spokesman for the Hammurabi human rights association, a Sunni Muslim group, recounted with the help of a satellite map when and where Iraqi civilians cowered and sometimes died.




Haditha - worse than we were told

As bad as the things they told us about Haditha (http://wakeupfromyourslumber.blogspot.com/2006/05/its-as-bad-as-abu-ghraib-if-not-worse.html) were, details emerging about what really happened (http://wakeupfromyourslumber.blogspot.com/2006/05/what-really-happened-in-haditha.html) are even worse.

The attack on the Iraqis began (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/07/world/middleeast/07haditha.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1) after the roadside bomb blew up one of four Humvees the marines were traveling in on Nov. 19, 2005. Minutes after that, the report portrays Sergeant Wuterich, the squad leader, and Sergeant Dela Cruz as killing five men who had nervously piled out of a taxi that had stopped near the marine convoy, the officials said.
The men “were shot by Wuterich as they stood, unarmed, next to the vehicle approximately 10 feet in front of him,” the report said, according to a person who has read it.



The massacre of 24 Iraqi civilians by US marines in November 2005 is turning out to be the worst war crime since the start of the invasion and the worst public relations disaster this administration has ever seen. That is no small task, considering the contenders for first place - Abu Ghraib, (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Ghraib_prisoner_abuse) Katrina, (http://wakeupfromyourslumber.blogspot.com/2006/03/katrinas-smoking-gun.html) Abramoff, (http://www.thinkprogress.org/abramoff) and Plame, (http://wakeupfromyourslumber.blogspot.com/2006/04/cats-out-of-bag.html) among other even BIGGER scandals (http://wakeupfromyourslumber.blogspot.com/2006/05/iraq-wmd-lie-that-wont-go-away.html) that have yet to get the attention that they should

[jetdawgg]

you prove you are an extremist. I posted a specific item from the site.

Please get some help:usmc:

[213]

The ones occupying Palestine?

As I've learnt my history(of course, this might just part of the whole world-wide Zionist conspiracy ;) )the British are the ones responsible for putting the Jews into what was formerly known as Palestine, and at that time the Palestinians still had a place to call home(albiet, in two considerably smaller spaces), and as far as I know were still welcome to be residents in the state of Israel. Of course, that fierce Arab pride kept that from happening, which in turn commenced the 1948 Israeli-Arab War, causing the Israeli conquering of the previously mentioned strips of Palestinian land.

Now, as I see it, had it not been for the Arab aggression in that scenario, the Jews wouldn't have taken thier land...exactly how is that not fair? Perhaps we should give back most of the western portion of the U.S. to Mexico?

[213]

This is what US aid to Israel looks like

It is always heartbreaking to see children wounded, maimed or killed, especially by conflicts of which they have no real understanding, and are perpetuated by the ignorance of thier elders. However, it isn't only Palestinian children who have been hurt by this conflict.

[jetdawgg]

(Ben Heine © Cartoons)
http://bp1.blogger.com/_a-Su2SAnGYU/RoLEc_gGEFI/AAAAAAAAA7I/5EroH0rrlVc/s320/Too_Much_Zionism_%28Ben_Heine%29.jpg (http://bp1.blogger.com/_a-Su2SAnGYU/RoLEc_gGEFI/AAAAAAAAA7I/5EroH0rrlVc/s1600-h/Too_Much_Zionism_%28Ben_Heine%29.jpg)
The nerve of them! How dare they!! Supporting divestments in Israel is antisemitism!!!

AWW... SHADDUP ALREADY FOXMAN! WE'RE SICK OF YOUR WHINING!!

The following (http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3418316,00.html) just appeared on Ynet....


Methodists 'bordering anti-Semitism'

ADL Director slams American Christian group for Israel divestment call

Yaakov Lappin

The United Methodist Church's call to divest from companies linked to Israel "is bordering on anti-Semitism," Anti-Defamation League Director Abraham Foxman told Ynetnews on Wednesday.

Foxman furiously condemned recommendations made by the New England branch of the Methodist Church for its members to divest "from twenty companies identified as supporting the Israeli occupation in Palestine."

The recommendations were made by a "task force" of clergy and church members set up to implement a "resolution to end the Israeli occupation," a statement by the Church added.

Foxman, who is currently in Israel, said it was "sad that a religious institution whose job should be to reconcile continues to be biased and bigoted."

He added that in the past two years, "there has been a war perpetrated by Hizbullah, katyushas rockets, and terrorist acts. Now Hamas, that does not recognize Israel's right to exist and perpetrated violence, has gotten itself elected, and is in control of a million and a half Palestinians. And the Methodists are still there to teach Israel a lesson."

"My reaction is one of outrage to this biased decision, which borders on anti-Semitism. The facts show that any decent fair-minded, spiritual, godly person would not come to a conclusion to boycott the victim, the one that has been praying for peace, suing for peace, hoping for peace. To make Israel the target is just outrageous," Foxman added.

In the Church's statement, William P. Aldrich, chairperson of the 'Divestment Task Force,' was quoted as saying: "Selective divestment is consistent with the United Methodist commitment to a just and sustainable peace for all the people of the Middle East." He added that the divestment campaign "offers a tangible way of working toward this goal."

In its press release, the Church said it knew its actions would not have an impact on Israel's economy, adding that "this is not the goal."

"The goal is to make all United Methodists and other Americans aware of their relationship to companies that benefit from the Israeli occupation," the statement added.

"The urgency of the humanitarian crisis in the occupied Palestinian territories cannot be overstated," the United Methodist Church declared on its website.

Church ackowledges bias

In a separate development, the ADL has welcomed the United Church of Christ's (UCC) acknowledgment that it has advocated an unbalanced and one-sided policy against the state of Israel.

The UCC passed a new resolution this week calling for a more balanced approach to the Middle East conflict.

"We are heartened that members of the United Church of Christ have come to recognize that Israel deserves a fair hearing and that some of their policy declarations in the past were based on unfair and biased assumptions," Foxman said.

"It is a welcome development, and the start of a healthy process toward a better understanding of a very complex and complicated history," he added.


posted by Desert Peace @ 11:10 PM (http://desertpeace.blogspot.com/2007/06/methodists-new-target-of-kosher-nostra.html) 4 comments (http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=18032696&postID=2760865902306065205&isPopup=true) (http://www.blogger.com/email-post.g?blogID=18032696&postID=2760865902306065205) (http://www.blogger.com/post-edit.g?blogID=18032696&postID=2760865902306065205)
<!-- End .post --><!-- Begin #comments -->4 Comments:

<DL id=comments-block><DT class=comment-data id=c4581140033854612327>At 7:33 AM, June 28, 2007 (http://desertpeace.blogspot.com/2007/06/methodists-new-target-of-kosher-nostra.html#c4581140033854612327), Anonymous said... <DD class=comment-body>Well of course, how dare anyone take any action against the apartheid state of Israel. It's clear that Foxman will defend against any truth that doesn't square with his perception of reality or delusion of reality. His comments make the Protocols of Zion a reality.

Yes, boycott Israel in all matters: business, products, academia, arts, culture, military, politics, travel, financial support, or any many other creative ways.

The American peoples are waking up to the reality of the oppression and hatred of Israeli (Zionist) society and those apologists that defend criminal behavior at any cost.

LA
(http://www.blogger.com/delete-comment.g?blogID=18032696&postID=4581140033854612327) <DT class=comment-data id=c5165972954288106299>At 11:18 AM, June 28, 2007 (http://desertpeace.blogspot.com/2007/06/methodists-new-target-of-kosher-nostra.html#c5165972954288106299), Anonymous said... <DD class=comment-body>Abraham Foxman can kiss my Christian rosy red. Zionist Christian is an oxymoron.
(http://www.blogger.com/delete-comment.g?blogID=18032696&postID=5165972954288106299) <DT class=comment-data id=c9150806079898335734>At 1:33 PM, June 28, 2007 (http://desertpeace.blogspot.com/2007/06/methodists-new-target-of-kosher-nostra.html#c9150806079898335734), Anonymous said... <DD class=comment-body>Foxman should be in prison for harboring fugitive Marc Rich prior to his "pardon" by loyal lapdog, Bill Clinton. The ADL should have been investigated for domestic spying and theft of private computer records, and the perpetrators should be in prison.

Supporting Israel's apartheid regime is equivalent to supporting the Jim Crow South. The ADL is a racist organization of hypocrites who thought-police the world, and shield their beloved apartheid state from public scrutiny. Their line of reasoning can be reduced to this: It is racist to accuse Jews of racism.
(http://www.blogger.com/delete-comment.g?blogID=18032696&postID=9150806079898335734) <DT class=comment-data id=c8657483132462365833>At 5:41 PM, June 28, 2007 (http://desertpeace.blogspot.com/2007/06/methodists-new-target-of-kosher-nostra.html#c8657483132462365833), m said... <DD class=comment-body>Well, Foxman only said "bordering on antiSemitism", so I guess that means that Zionists only border on hating the United Methodist Church.
</DD></DL>
http://desertpeace.blogspot.com/2007/06/methodists-new-target-of-kosher-nostra.html


The American people tire of the abuses directed upon the people of Palestine. Abuses that take place in a large part due to American Taxpayer Dollars allowed to go to Israel thru the means of AIPAC donations and sources like that.

[hrscowboy]

It always sad to see the after affects of War but thats what War is all about, these people know or knew the outcome and should have left the area my god if you know the war is coming are you gonna stay and die for No reason what so ever..

[rheinmark187]

213, we need to educate, job train and engage in peaceful negotiations.

This war is expensive. Those other approaches are less costly and less destructive. They allow us to rebuild our national infrastructure so we don't have to deal with any more "Katrinas".

We will be able to protect our ports. We can have sound energy policy. Currently the US military is dependent upon oil. Whose plan was this again?

Let's take care of America First, second, third....

dependant on kerosene? That's basically what jp8 and it's varients are.

Jetdawgg, i'm afraid that you are stuck in a timewarp. We aren't fighting the Soviets. It's damn easy to negotiate with Communists (who have nothing to gain from launching a self destructive conventional/nuclear/radio/bio attack on the western world. Let's also not forget that we always negotiated with them when they were in pandemic economic decline.

It's not easy to negotiate with terrorists when they feel they have you at a disadvantage, and their major goals are: Pull all military, financial, and DIPLOMATIC interests out of all Muslim lands. Do not interfere with our plans to destroy Israel (a nuclear power that has made it clear they WILL use nukes to defend themselves) and more importantly do not interfere with our efforts to make common law submit to Sharia law. >_<They also want Spain:beer:

[hrscowboy]

WTF is wrong with Israel using there Nuclear power I for one say let them do what they have to do if they whip out the some of the Muslim lands too bad thats what you get when bite off more than you can chew...

[rheinmark187]

HRS are we talking about nuclear warheads or nuclear power? I didn't make that clear in my thread sorry. Most people don't want to see NUKES used under any circumstances, the ones who do have very clear criteria. The Consequences of nuclear war in the middle east are so dire for Israel, I hope they never make that decision. The other muslim countries in the region, if they are not nuked as well, would almost certainly feel dutybound to invade and destroy Israel. I wouldn't want to see the casualty list of all the nations that get involved in such a campaign.

[HOLM]

We aren't fighting the Soviets.
<they also="" want="" spain="">


Well... Not yet anyway
</they>

[greensideout]

This is what US aid to Israel looks like

http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20070627/i/r2056233931.jpg?x=380&y=258&sig=gM2VLLT1gI41.o8RczKHOg--



Wed Jun 27, 6:18 AM ET
A Palestinian woman carries her daughter after she was injured by an Israeli tank shell in Gaza June 27, 2007. Israeli forces killed at least 10 Palestinians, most of them gunmen, on Wednesday in their biggest raid in the Gaza Strip since Hamas Islamists took over the territory two weeks ago, medical workers and residents said. REUTERS/Ismail Zaydah (GAZA (http://news.yahoo.com/photo/070627/ids_photos_wl/r2056233931.jpg/print;_ylt=AqHtnsoVaT3MkZamXj_6NraaK8MA))

http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20070627/capt.3dbc3a1f7db34e358c4dba2b7b0fb40d.mideast_isra el_palestinians__jrl104.jpg?x=380&y=250&sig=gHt8VC.yw1quHchvp4l4Ag--



Wed Jun 27, 5:40 AM ET
The bodies of two wounded Palestinians are seen inside a car as they are taken to the Shifa hospital in Gaza City, Wednesday June 27, 2007. Israeli attacks in the Gaza Strip on Wednesday killed eight Palestinians, including a 12-year-old boy, Palestinians said, the bloodiest fighting in the area since the Hamas militant group violently seized control two weeks ago. (AP Photo/Hatem Moussa (http://news.yahoo.com/photo/070627/481/3dbc3a1f7db34e358c4dba2b7b0fb40d/print;_ylt=Arw6h2.UWpkTOBdk0b8D6fPlWMcF))


http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/nm/20070627/2007_06_27t051921_328x450_us_palestinians_israel.j pg?x=251&y=345&sig=2bue7xvxHE.t67GdC4_2cQ--


Wed Jun 27, 10:42 AM ET
A woman carries a girl injured by an Israeli tank shell in Gaza June 27, 2007. (Ismail Zaydah/Reuters) (http://news.yahoo.com/photo/070627/photos_wl/2007_06_27t051921_328x450_us_palestinians_israel/print;_ylt=AoqYR7ss_1Jd.Y92LhtHkA2aK8MA)


http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/afp/20070627/capt.sge.rlu83.270607174511.photo01.photo.default-512x323.jpg?x=380&y=239&sig=SHfs25DKD36DqFtTcj1l6g--


Wed Jun 27, 2:25 PM ET
A wounded Palestinian child lies on a hospital trolley in Gaza City following an Israeli offensive. Nine Palestinians were killed on Wednesday as Israel launched twin offensives in the Gaza Strip, triggering the deadliest violence since Hamas fighters overran the territory 12 days ago.(AFP/Mohammed Abed (http://news.yahoo.com/photo/070627/photos_wl_afp/793ce2e2cbda0b997c38c24e68ad7796/print;_ylt=ApUaxIsONjbKnHgbK7uZx.cZO7gF))

http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/nm/20070627/2007_06_27t115329_336x450_us_palestinians_israel.j pg?x=257&y=345&sig=3ifgw9__sTzTZLnzM6XE3g--


Wed Jun 27, 3:48 PM ET
A wounded Palestinian woman lies on the ground after she was injured by an Israeli tank shell in Gaza, June 27, 2007. (Ismail Zaydah/Reuters (http://news.yahoo.com/photo/070627/photos_wl/2007_06_27t115329_336x450_us_palestinians_israel/print;_ylt=ArRpySoFj1JZ1zoxW4io0DaaK8MA))

http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20070627/capt.023dcbff4a5d4805abada8aa5b7bbb6b.mideast_isra el_palestinians__jrl102.jpg?x=380&y=270&sig=PBUZO5B701JY1e9Zj3EUPQ--


Wed Jun 27, 5:30 AM ET
A Palestinian man carries a wounded boy at the Shifa hospital in Gaza City,Wednesday, June 27, 2007. Israeli attacks in the Gaza Strip on Wednesday killed eight Palestinians, including a 12-year-old boy, Palestinians said, the bloodiest fighting in the area since the Hamas militant group violently seized control two weeks ago. (AP Photo/Hatem Moussa (http://news.yahoo.com/photo/070627/481/023dcbff4a5d4805abada8aa5b7bbb6b/print;_ylt=Ar7vMwd._1nibZojXi.GC73lWMcF))



http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/nm/20070627/2007_06_27t055313_450x346_us_palestinians_israel.j pg?x=380&y=291&sig=yJ7exy0BVMOGkbAwfJPHDg--


Wed Jun 27, 8:46 AM ET
A Palestinian woman carries her daughter after she was injured by an Israeli tank shell in Gaza June 27, 2007. (Ismail Zaydah/Reuters (http://news.yahoo.com/photo/070627/photos_wl/2007_06_27t055313_450x346_us_palestinians_israel/print;_ylt=AlFb0Trf2qxLVlI7wrXqfeuaK8MA))

http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20070627/capt.ec4c27cf81354d45b52df0c8e41d8e92.mideast_isra el_palestinians__jrl149.jpg?x=274&y=345&sig=Pilqgn4xlABjrEjuZw8gKQ-- (http://news.yahoo.com/photo/070627/photos_wl_afp/8ac28d2330c3cef39a63a7ee48db4169/print;_ylt=AqDmwHge5PYpMyJbS0XeDFAZO7gF)


Wed Jun 27, 10:50 AM ET
A Palestinian man carries a boy who was wounded in an Israeli army operation into Shifa hospital in Gaza City, June 27, 2007. Israeli attacks in the Gaza Strip on Wednesday killed ten Palestinians, including a 12-year-old boy, Palestinians said, the bloodiest fighting in the area since the Hamas militant group violently seized control two weeks ago. (AP Photo/Majed Hamdan) (http://news.yahoo.com/photo/070627/481/ec4c27cf81354d45b52df0c8e41d8e92/print;_ylt=AmaSAVy4F3I8U40GEB7LXgHlWMcF)
http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20070627/i/r3321472330.jpg?x=380&y=278&sig=OVHrAvgBn7FzMSUKD28D2Q-- (http://news.yahoo.com/photo/070627/481/ec4c27cf81354d45b52df0c8e41d8e92/print;_ylt=AmaSAVy4F3I8U40GEB7LXgHlWMcF)


Wed Jun 27, 9:29 AM ET
Palestinian children wait in line to receive food distributed at a soup kitchen in the West Bank city of Hebron June 27, 2007. REUTERS/Nayef Hashlamoun (WEST BANK (http://news.yahoo.com/photo/070627/ids_photos_wl/r3321472330.jpg/print;_ylt=AktBxlYrOE4DqfjlTNtiwbyaK8MA))
http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20070627/i/r1871323924.jpg?x=380&y=230&sig=XYFncK0v3wIVsVLZdECNVw--


Wed Jun 27, 6:14 AM ET
People carry a wounded Palestinian girl (L) and a boy after they were injured by an Israeli tank shell in Gaza June 27, 2007. Israeli forces killed at least 10 Palestinians, most of them gunmen, on Wednesday in their biggest raid in the Gaza Strip since Hamas Islamists took over the territory two weeks ago, medical workers and residents said. REUTERS/Ismail Zaydah (GAZA (http://news.yahoo.com/photo/070627/ids_photos_wl/r1871323924.jpg/print;_ylt=AkzPQjZnjw8QAdkK9g7MJeyaK8MA))
http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20070627/capt.7bd4b500d8564a90a84d19909ca581e9.mideast_isra el_palestinians__jrl101.jpg?x=245&y=345&sig=dwnrDd.OQH7jMy1thK2H4g--


Wed Jun 27, 5:26 AM ET
A Palestinian woman carries her wounded daughter at the Shifa hospital in Gaza City, Wednesday June 27, 2007. Israeli attacks in the Gaza Strip on Wednesday killed eight Palestinians, including a 12-year-old boy, Palestinians said, the bloodiest fighting in the area since the Hamas militant group violently seized control two weeks ago. (AP Photo/Hatem Moussa) (http://news.yahoo.com/photo/070627/481/7bd4b500d8564a90a84d19909ca581e9/print;_ylt=ApDNoNifmvn7G2WBlZv1UXDlWMcF)


http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20070627/i/r204360231.jpg?x=380&y=247&sig=yokrBihZR9IyKzDbcNq8lw--


Wed Jun 27, 9:29 AM ET
Palestinian children wait in line to receive food distributed at a soup kitchen in the West Bank city of Hebron June 27, 2007. REUTERS/Nayef Hashlamoun (WEST BANK) (http://news.yahoo.com/photo/070627/ids_photos_wl/r204360231.jpg/print;_ylt=AkmQFBukCo.HPhGf6z4XjS6aK8MA)
http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20070627/capt.24051c1d6bc04a0a8a20017f35caec75.aptopix_mide ast_israel_palestinians__jrl113.jpg?x=236&y=345&sig=gc8bfV7xKG8ry_RYrM5a7A-- (http://news.yahoo.com/photo/070627/ids_photos_wl/r204360231.jpg/print;_ylt=AkmQFBukCo.HPhGf6z4XjS6aK8MA)


Wed Jun 27, 9:02 AM ET
Palestinians carry the body of a badly wounded man at the Shifa hospital in Gaza City, Wednesday June 27, 2007. Israeli attacks in the Gaza Strip on Wednesday killed eight Palestinians, including a 12-year-old boy, Palestinians said, the bloodiest fighting in the area since the Hamas militant group violently seized control two weeks ago. (AP Photo/Hatem Moussa) (http://news.yahoo.com/photo/070627/481/24051c1d6bc04a0a8a20017f35caec75/print;_ylt=AuCwIp23V0K4UUe_1QZGGxnlWMcF)
http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20070627/i/r2020916273.jpg?x=380&y=291&sig=WjWLby._AmDkQ.11s4qzRA-- (http://news.yahoo.com/photo/070627/481/24051c1d6bc04a0a8a20017f35caec75/print;_ylt=AuCwIp23V0K4UUe_1QZGGxnlWMcF)


Wed Jun 27, 5:07 AM ET
A woman carries a Palestinian girl injured from an Israeli tank shell in Gaza June 27, 2007. Israeli forces killed at least 10 Palestinians, most of them gunmen, on Wednesday in their biggest raid in the Gaza Strip since Hamas Islamists took over the territory two weeks ago, medical workers and residents said. REUTERS/Ismail Zaydah (GAZA (http://news.yahoo.com/photo/070627/ids_photos_wl/r2020916273.jpg/print;_ylt=ArYUttVJXs_k6G8lC9mFmvGaK8MA))

http://www.wakeupfromyourslumber.com/node/2292


Ahh, you show your true colors jetdawgg, anti-Israel. I guess this is where we part in ideas. What would be wrong I ask, with Israel nukeing ALL of the Arab countries and reducing problems for the entire world from these radical Islam nutcases? It would also get them off of their back. Sounds a good plan to me.

[erased]

"What would be wrong I ask, with Israel nukeing ALL of the Arab countries and reducing problems for the entire world from these radical Islam nutcases? It would also get them off of their back. Sounds a good plan to me."

Yeah... kill more than a billion people to take few of a few lunatics... but then who would the lunatics be?

[greensideout]

If you had family in the Trade Center on 9-11 how would you feel about it?

[greensideout]

"What would be wrong I ask, with Israel nukeing ALL of the Arab countries and reducing problems for the entire world from these radical Islam nutcases? It would also get them off of their back. Sounds a good plan to me."

Yeah... kill more than a billion people to take few of a few lunatics... but then who would the lunatics be?


The current admin has taken down an entire country with little if any reguard for it's people. How many have died? I guess the big question is---for what?!!!
I really don't think that Iraq was about to land on the shores of America and invade us. The invation from the south is another question. How does the current admin explain the "draft of economic slaves" from the south?

[jetdawgg]

If you had family in the Trade Center on 9-11 how would you feel about it?

I used to work in the WTC (Tower 2 / 110th Floor). That was the first tower to fall. I lost several friends and acquaintances that day (and subsequent days).

Killing all of the Arabs doesn't bring them back and does not make sense. Not even for the 'sake of Israel'. You extremists really can go to far with things.

[jetdawgg]

Ahh, you show your true colors jetdawgg, anti-Israel. I guess this is where we part in ideas. What would be wrong I ask, with Israel nukeing ALL of the Arab countries and reducing problems for the entire world from these radical Islam nutcases? It would also get them off of their back. Sounds a good plan to me.

You are correct I am showing my 'true colors'. Red, White and Blue!!!!!

America First. Like many Americans, we are getting fed up with the Israeli extremism and we are going to implement changes.

I will criticize this nation and any other nation. Why is it that any criticism of Israel makes one 'anti semetic'? That is ridiculous. It is on par with calling me 'un-patriotic'.

It is all wrong with Israel nuking all of the Arab countries. Why do you think that Iran and others want nukes? Because the Israelis have them and won't admit (what we all know) that they do.

[jetdawgg]

dependant on kerosene? That's basically what jp8 and it's varients are.

Jetdawgg, i'm afraid that you are stuck in a timewarp. We aren't fighting the Soviets. It's damn easy to negotiate with Communists (who have nothing to gain from launching a self destructive conventional/nuclear/radio/bio attack on the western world. Let's also not forget that we always negotiated with them when they were in pandemic economic decline.

It's not easy to negotiate with terrorists when they feel they have you at a disadvantage, and their major goals are: Pull all military, financial, and DIPLOMATIC interests out of all Muslim lands. Do not interfere with our plans to destroy Israel (a nuclear power that has made it clear they WILL use nukes to defend themselves) and more importantly do not interfere with our efforts to make common law submit to Sharia law. >_<THEY class=inlineimg title=Beer alt="" border="0" src="http://www.leatherneck.com/forums/images/smilies/beer.gif" Spain:beer:

rhein not all Muslim lands feel that way. There are a few 'terrorists'. Even on this board it is said to be 1MM or so out of 1.25BB Muslim people. You look at too much FIX'd News/FOX Noise Channel and are presenting a rather extreme argument.

[erased]

If you had family in the Trade Center on 9-11 how would you feel about it?
I'd likely feel like "whoever did this has to pay". I doubt I'd say "All Arabs / Muslims need to pay". Besides, citing personal emotion doesn't make an argument logical.


The current admin has taken down an entire country with little if any reguard for it's people. How many have died? I guess the big question is---for what?!!!
I really don't think that Iraq was about to land on the shores of America and invade us. The invation from the south is another question. How does the current admin explain the "draft of economic slaves" from the south?
I don't know why you quoted me for that one, but I don't have an answer for you. I doubt this administration does either.

[3077India]

...America First. Like many Americans, we are getting fed up with the Israeli extremism and we are going to implement changes.I agree that America should come first always and in everything our leaders do. Where Israel is concerned, I do feel that we should stand by them, after all they are surrounded by enemies on 3-sides, I won't fault them for taking whatever steps they need to for the safety and security of their people. I'd expect nothing less from my country if we had enemies surrounding us.
I will criticize this nation and any other nation. Why is it that any criticism of Israel makes one 'anti semetic'? That is ridiculous. It is on par with calling me 'un-patriotic'.Calling someone anti-semitic simply because they criticize Israel is ridiculous since the Arabs are also Semites (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/semite).
It is all wrong with Israel nuking all of the Arab countries. Why do you think that Iran and others want nukes? Because the Israelis have them and won't admit (what we all know) that they do.Israel having nuclear weapons has never really been a big secret any way since we've known about it for about 3 decades. I don't have a problem with Israel having nukes; their having them and their neighbors not is pretty much the only deterent to keeping their enemies from invading them.
rhein not all Muslim lands feel that way. There are a few 'terrorists'. Even on this board it is said to be 1MM or so out of 1.25BB Muslim people. You look at too much FIX'd News/FOX Noise Channel and are presenting a rather extreme argument.I'm inclined to agree with you on this statistic; however, you might want to visit Apostates of Islam (http://www.apostatesofislam.com/). The picture of true Islam is different than what we've been told by the Administration and others. Everything that true Christianity is true Islam ISN'T and everything that true Islam is true Christianity ISN'T. You may want to consider obtaining a copy of Islam and Terrorism (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0884198847/qid=1054441473/sr=2-2/ref=sr_2_2/102-0727471-8312901%20) or some other book that exposes Islam (http://www.apostatesofislam.com/islambookslist.htm) for what it really is.

[drumcorpssnare]

3077India- Ooorah! Someone who has researched and understands the jihadist mindset. I've suggested others on this forum read about the history and theology of the radical Islamic fundamentalists. They reply to my threads as though I have three heads!
I've done my homework. I wish others here would do likewise...for their sake.
drumcorpssnare:usmc:

[3077India]

Drumcorpssnare, I just finished reading the book Islam and Terrorism (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0884198847/qid=1054441473/sr=2-2/ref=sr_2_2/102-0727471-8312901%20) and it completely changed my perspective on Islam. If everyone would study the truth about Islam they would see that Muslims don't hate us because of our freedom, they hate us because we don't submit to the will of Allah and our Gov't doesn't enforce the laws of Allah as laid out in the Koran.

Personal liberty (our Civil Liberties) mean nothing to the culture of Islam; all that matters is submission to Allah. For this reason democracy won't work in Iraq. We are delusional to think that it will.

[greensideout]

3077India- Ooorah! Someone who has researched and understands the jihadist mindset. I've suggested others on this forum read about the history and theology of the radical Islamic fundamentalists. They reply to my threads as though I have three heads!
I've done my homework. I wish others here would do likewise...for their sake.
drumcorpssnare:usmc:


Try www.worldnetdaily.com

[HOLM]

Personal liberty (our Civil Liberties) mean nothing to the culture of Islam; all that matters is submission to Allah. For this reason democracy won't work in Iraq. We are delusional to think that it will.

Nice info on the Islamic faith.. I am with you most of the way.. I hesitate to jump fully on that bandwagon only because without the New Testament (the "jewish" text) the bible could be portrayed much in the same light as the Quran..


And about Iraq..

Their constitution. the one they VOTED for..

http://portal.unesco.org/ci/en/files/20704/11332732681iraqi_constitution_en.pdf/iraqi_constitution_en.pdf

THE PREAMBLE In the name of God, the most merciful, the most compassionate. We have honored the sons of Adam We are the people of the land between two rivers, the homeland of the apostles and prophets, abode of the virtuous imams, pioneers of civilization, crafters of writing and cradle of numeration. Upon our land the first law made by man was passed, the most ancient just pact for homelands policy was inscribed, and upon our soil, companions of the Prophet and saints prayed, philosophers and scientists theorized and writers and poets excelled.

Article 1

The Republic of Iraq is a single, independent federal state with full sovereignty. Its system of government is republican, representative Parliamentary and democratic. This Constitution is the guarantor of its unity.) The Republic of Iraq is an independent sovereign state. Its system of government is republican, representative (Parliamentary), democratic and federal.




I don't mean to be argumentative with you, 3077India, about this stuff... But I while we are having a decent disscussion (finally) I thought all the information should be laid out there...

[3077India]

...about Iraq..

Their constitution. the one they VOTED for..

http://portal.unesco.org/ci/en/files/20704/11332732681iraqi_constitution_en.pdf/iraqi_constitution_en.pdf

THE PREAMBLE In the name of God, the most merciful, the most compassionate. We have honored the sons of Adam We are the people of the land between two rivers, the homeland of the apostles and prophets, abode of the virtuous imams, pioneers of civilization, crafters of writing and cradle of numeration. Upon our land the first law made by man was passed, the most ancient just pact for homelands policy was inscribed, and upon our soil, companions of the Prophet and saints prayed, philosophers and scientists theorized and writers and poets excelled.

Article 1

The Republic of Iraq is a single, independent federal state with full sovereignty. Its system of government is republican, representative Parliamentary and democratic. This Constitution is the guarantor of its unity.) The Republic of Iraq is an independent sovereign state. Its system of government is republican, representative (Parliamentary), democratic and federal.

I don't mean to be argumentative with you, 3077India, about this stuff... But I while we are having a decent disscussion (finally) I thought all the information should be laid out there...Any constitution is just words on paper. The only power a constitution has is the will of the people to support, defend and abide by it.

Section 1, Article 2 of their constitution declares: "Islam is the official religion of the state and it is a fundamental source of legislation:..."

The paragraph continues in sub-clause A of that same Article by declaring that, "No law that contradicts the established provisions of Islam may be established." I'd like to point out that this provision preceeds the next, which states that, "No law that contradicts the principles of democracy may be established."

The arrangement of these 2 subclauses was no accident as it is meant to imply that Islam shall take precedence over anything democratic.

Partly for this reason I have serious doubts that democracy will long survive in Iraq.

[greensideout]

The only power a constitution has is the will of the people to support, defend and abide by it.


That's why the Iraq "nation building program", will not work. The constitution there will always fall second to Islam.

[3077India]

...The constitution there will always fall second to Islam.Exactly!

[213]

If everyone would study the truth about Islam they would see that Muslims don't hate us because of our freedom, they hate us because we don't submit to the will of Allah and our Gov't doesn't enforce the laws of Allah as laid out in the Koran.


I ask of you then, why don't the extremists' carry out attacks on, or express thier hatred of Sweden? Or Italy? Surely these countries donot follow Islamic law.

[jetdawgg]

I ask of you then, why don't the extremists' carry out attacks on, or express thier hatred of Sweden? Or Italy? Surely these countries donot follow Islamic law.

Their gov't 's do not hand out billions of taxpayer dollars to Israel annually or maybe even collectively.

[3077India]

I ask of you then, why don't the extremists' carry out attacks on, or express thier hatred of Sweden? Or Italy? Surely these countries do not follow Islamic law.No they don't follow Islamic law, but America is the most visible. The goal of true Islam is world domination... to submit the world to Allah and his law. Don't think that just because they have yet to be touched by Islam, that they are some how protected.

Their gov't 's do not hand out billions of taxpayer dollars to Israel annually or maybe even collectively.You are correct; at the present Israel's greatest, if not only, ally is the US. This can be attributed to 2 factors: 1) The large Jewish population in America, and; 2) Evangelical Christians.

Also, in the UN Security Council the US has used its veto to block resolutions that target Israel. No other nation has demonstrated the type of loyalty to Israel that America has. As long as America shows its support for Israel, it will always be a prime target of Islamic terrorism.

However, don't think that the way to stop being a target is to stop supporting Israel. One might think that would give us peace, but it won't. We have exported enough of our culture and way of life for Islamic terrorists to be convinced that we are an immoral society above all others. Because of this we need (from their POV) to be subjugated to Allah and his law.

[jetdawgg]

However, don't think that the way to stop being a target is to stop supporting Israel.

India, I think that we do need to support Israel. It is the amount ($$$$) of support that I have a qusetion with. We don't have health care here and yet we send billions to another nation?

America First, Second, Third....:usmc:

[3077India]

India, I think that we do need to support Israel. It is the amount ($$$$) of support that I have a qusetion with. We don't have health care here and yet we send billions to another nation?

America First, Second, Third....:usmc:I agree, I have concerns with that kind of support too. Any support of that kind should be the last item on a long list of needed appropriations for Americans. Whatever is leftover, if anything, ought to go to Israel.

[Kalban]

The ones occupying Palestine?

There was never a Palestine. The Palestinian state never existed- Palestine is the name given by crusaders (or before that.. about that part I'm not so sure) and it's derived from the word Philistine. What happened was this- Before Israel, Lebanon, Jordan, the whole area was called Transjordan - the West Bank, Gaza, Israel, Lebanon and Jordan. Israel of today is what was given to us and you already know what they got - there were no Jordanianes or anything, the arabs there are the same as the Palestinianes. the arabs who did NOT leave Israel are today arab citizens inside Israel.
here's some quote from wiki:

The term "Palestine" derives from the word Philistine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philistine),<SUP class=reference id=_ref-0>[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine#_note-0)</SUP> the word in Hebrew (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebrew) is פְּלְשְׁתִּים Pelishtim, this word is derived from the word פְּלִישָׁה Pelisha, meaning invasion or incursion.
The name was given to the non-Semitic ethnic group, originating from Southern Greece (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greece), closely related to early Mycenaean (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mycenaean) civilization.<SUP class=reference id=_ref-1>[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine#_note-1)</SUP> Inhabiting a smaller area on the southern coast called Philistia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philistia), whose borders approximate the modern Gaza Strip (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_Strip), Philistia encompassed the five cities of Gaza (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza), Ashkelon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashkelon), Ashdod (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashdod), Ekron (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ekron), and Gath (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gath_%28city%29).

Jordan doesn't want the Palestinians. They cast them out the door. Arab nations keep them in refugee camps intentionally to incite hate on Israel. As for the victims- yes, some is true. (though some is fake, and alot of the news are biased - I remember one video was displayed here of Palestinianes carrying a boy lying in a casket with blood all over him, then they dropped the casket and the boy goes back to life long enough to hurry back into the casket) but so are our victims, in case you forgotten. Even if Palestine existed, and we conquered their entire state- why is it the small school boy's fault that he deserved to get blown up on his bus? why is it of any citizen?

Why shouldn't america give the land back to native-american?

I hope this won't turn into a flame fight.
cheers,
Dror.

[jetdawgg]

Kalban, I will keep this as brief as possible. Palestine does not get Billions of US taxpayer dollars at the expense of health care, border security and other dire needs of my country.

America first, second, third....


Why shouldn't america give the land back to native-american?

You can't tell me at all that you are not looking for a flame fight when you post sh1t like this on this board. Also, America is spelled with a capital 'A'.

Post some more sh1t like this on this board and you'll find that no 'flames' post here:usmc:

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u17/jetdawgg/bulldog_JoinUs.gif

[Kalban]

I'm sorry but I can't seem to edit my message- where you see Transjordan- I meant British Mandate of Palestine, which included Transjordan.
EDIT:
As for america first- I agree with you, you should put your own country first, that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about Palestine.
As for what I said about the native-American- you called us the "scumbags who occupy Palestine". why is that any better than what I said?
And why is it sh1t anyway?
and yeah, *America, sorry.

[jetdawgg]

I'm sorry but I can't seem to edit my message- where you see Transjordan- I meant British Mandate of Palestine, which included Transjordan.
EDIT:
As for america first- I agree with you, you should put your own country first, that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about Palestine.
As for what I said about the native-American- you called us the "scumbags who occupy Palestine". why is that any better than what I said?
And why is it sh1t anyway?
and yeah, *America, sorry.

kalban, last cycle here for you. As I don't discuss American politics with foreigners. This is a US Marine Corps site and I am a US Marine Corps Veteran.

The only thing I am talking about is putting my country first.

On the thread in question a US Marine made a statement and I turned the statement around. Again I repeat that this is a US Marine Corps site. There will be plenty of things stated here that other people won't like.

That is too f@cking bad. This site is for US Marines and if you don't like the dialog don't f@cking read it.

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u17/jetdawgg/bulldoglogo_sm.gif

[Kalban]

kalban, last cycle here for you. As I don't discuss American politics with foreigners. This is a US Marine Corps site and I am a US Marine Corps Veteran.

The only thing I am talking about is putting my country first.

On the thread in question a US Marine made a statement and I turned the statement around. Again I repeat that this is a US Marine Corps site. There will be plenty of things stated here that other people won't like.

That is too f@cking bad. This site is for US Marines and if you don't like the dialog don't f@cking read it.



But I wasn't talking about American politics. what stood out was your comment on Palestine. I'm not talking about America, I don't know much about America's politics or whatever.
Like I said, I agree with putting your country first.
I didn't f@cking say anything about f@cking not liking any f@cking dialouge, don't f@cking put words in my mouth.
And yeah the site is for US Marines or their families and friends. So cuz I'm Israeli I'm not allowed to be here?

[jetdawgg]

But I wasn't talking about American politics. what stood out was your comment on Palestine. I'm not talking about America, I don't know much about America's politics or whatever.
Like I said, I agree with putting your country first.
I didn't f@cking say anything about f@cking not liking any f@cking dialouge, don't f@cking put words in my mouth.
And yeah the site is for US Marines or their families and friends. So cuz I'm Israeli I'm not allowed to be here?

Don't you guys go to school over there? I said in the last post that it was the "last cycle". That means don't post to me any f@cking more. This is not an Israeli board so watch what you post here.

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u17/jetdawgg/canv004.jpg Earn this then post to me.


I really don't care whom you post to, don't f@cking post to me anymore.

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u17/jetdawgg/USMC.jpg

[Kalban]

Whatever you say, grandpa

[thedrifter]

Since I see some folks are just attacking each other, and NOT Respecting other points of views...

This Topic is CLOSED

Ellie