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fontman
06-26-07, 10:00 AM
Scoring The War
By INVESTOR'S BUSINESS DAILY
Posted Monday, June 25, 2007

War And The Media: Day after day, Americans are treated to a never-ending, mind-numbing parade of statistics about the number of U.S. troops killed in Iraq and Afghanistan. But what about the terrorists?

One way the media distort Americans' view of the ongoing war against terrorists is by focusing on just one side in the conflict: ours. Whether it's the daily body count or alleged abuses at Abu Ghraib or Guantanamo, the public could be forgiven for thinking the U.S. is not only losing the war, but behaving badly in doing so.

But neither is true. This year, for instance, the U.S. has killed roughly 650 terrorists a month, according to published reports and Defense Department estimates. That compares with about 37 U.S. combat deaths per month, through May.

The ratio, thus, is about 18 terrorists killed in combat for every allied soldier killed. And that doesn't include the current offensive in Diayala Province, Operation Arrowhead Ripper, which dispatched 159 enemy combatants in just the first five days.

Since the war began, we've lost about 70 troops a month. This compares with 526 a month in Vietnam, more than 900 a month in Korea and 6,639 a month during World War II.

In other words, by any meaningful metric employed, the U.S. is winning this war. But it will never be reported that way.

This is nothing new. Go back to Vietnam. Remember the "five o'clock follies," when the press routinely ridiculed Pentagon casualty reports? The Vietnam syndrome continues to this day.

Only now it's the media misreporting the numbers. Just weeks into the war in 2003, we started hearing the now-oft-repeated canard that Iraq was worse off with the U.S. than with Saddam. This is so plainly wrong that it must be called what it is: a lie.

And yet, it's repeated to this day. Here again, the numbers tell the tale. In his 24 years as Iraq's Stalinist supreme leader, Saddam Hussein killed at least 2 million people. That averages out to about 6,944 a month for the better part of three decades.

Most responsible estimates show that, at most, 60,000 or so civilians have been killed since the war started, about 1,200 a month.

Moreover, no one doubts that Saddam was responsible for all 2 million of his deaths. In the case of the U.S., most of the civilian deaths come from al-Qaida and other terrorists, not U.S. troops.

We got to thinking about this as a result of Operation Arrowhead Ripper, which began a week ago. It involves some 10,000 U.S. troops trying to rid Diyala Province of al-Qaida terrorists. It's one of the biggest, if not the biggest, operations since the war began.

And yet, when we looked for news of how this huge effort in the war on terror was going, the focus was all on American fatalities.

Since Vietnam, the media have approached each military conflict with the same template: "U.S. Wrong, Foe Right." And they've reported accordingly. That's why wanton murderers of women and children are generously called "fighters" by our own media, while errors by our own troops are tarred as war crimes.

So, in a sense, we are losing a war - the war for Americans' hearts and minds, fought daily on America's TV screens and front pages. But in the real war, our troops are fighting bravely and well - and it's about time someone started keeping score.

Amen and Semper Fidelis,
fontman

SGTBrentG
06-26-07, 10:23 AM
http://clicksmilies.com/s1106/aktion/action-smiley-033.gif

jetdawgg
06-26-07, 10:24 AM
Another propoaganda piece showing that we are fighting 'terrorists'.

When will the story get straight? When will the truth be known about whom we are fighting and why?

IBD comes out of UK (Tony Blair). We are losing the hearts and minds of Americans due to the fact that the MSM continues to lie.:usmc:

Sgt Leprechaun
06-26-07, 08:33 PM
Ah, yes. So who exactly do you believe we are fighting sir?

jetdawgg
06-27-07, 02:11 PM
Ah, yes. So who exactly do you believe we are fighting sir?

Sunni, Shia, Iraqi Insurgents, Terrorists, Iranians, Iraqi Civilians.... Like I have stated before, the lies are astounding and no one knows the truth anymore

FistFu68
06-27-07, 02:35 PM
:evilgrin: WHAT WAS YOU'R (MOS) JETTLAGGG? :evilgrin:

jetdawgg
06-27-07, 02:41 PM
2651 Crypto Tech Operator

drumcorpssnare
06-27-07, 03:02 PM
jetdawgg- The success in the Kurdish north of Iraq is astounding! No terrorist attacks, IED's, American troops getting shot...Why doesn't the media bring this up on the national nightly news?
You said a few posts back we're fighting "Sunni, Shia, Iraqi insurgents, terrorists, Iranians, Iraqi civilians"
The "Sunni" we are fighting are not part of an organized military. They are terrorists who indiscriminately kill military troops, women, children, the aged and infirm.
Same goes for the "Shia" we are fighting. Terrorists.
"Iraqi insurgents"...Terrorists
"Iranians" (illegally supporting insurgents, while technically neutral) Terrorists.

Iraqi civilians (i.e. "non-combatants") We're fighting "these"people?

You almost make it sound like we just went over there to kill everybody, without any ROE. We all know this is not the case.

WW II was an extremely popular war. Imagine how much MORE popular it would have been if we were only losing 2.1 people per day?

drumcorpssnare:usmc:

HOLM
06-27-07, 03:17 PM
WW II was an extremely popular war. Imagine how much MORE popular it would have been if we were only losing 2.1 people per day?

drumcorpssnare:usmc:


UMMMM I am with you... but WW2 was not as popular as you made it sound..

Until the chit really hit the fan the Europeans called it the "phony war"


And this is the easiest thing for me to quickly cut and paste... But is was damn sure no accident that this was the lead in to MOST of the Patton speeches...... In 1944...


"Men, this stuff that some sources sling around about America wanting out of this war, not wanting to fight, is a crock of bull****.



History is written by some strange folks....

jetdawgg
06-27-07, 03:23 PM
The Iraqi people (gov't) had nothing to do with 911. I posted a link yesterday showing where even the president made this statement.

For the MSM or whomever to now label these people as "terrorists" is baffling at the very least. Insidious and maybe even worse. Someone here is lying real bad to the American people and it needs to stop.

We went there are defeated the Iraqi Militia. We should have been out of there then. We no longer have Saddam alive more or less in power.

This admin has no credibility and no grip on how to win the war that they claimed "Mission Accomplished" over 1520 days ago. Any death to a US Marine or other military personnel since that time is blood on the hands of those who insist upon the continuance of this debacle:usmc:

artymarine
06-27-07, 03:23 PM
Drum.....great comeback....sometimes the truth huts...it hurts all the time for the left nay-sayers

Semper Fi Little Brother

jetdawgg
06-27-07, 03:26 PM
Drum.....great comeback....sometimes the truth huts...it hurts all the time for the left nay-sayers

Semper Fi Little Brother

Sir after 5 years of occupation, they may as well be terrorists. We have provided them plenty of ammo (hatred of the USA) to become that.

HOLM
06-27-07, 03:28 PM
For the MSM or whomever to now label these people as "terrorists" is baffling at the very least. Insidious and maybe even worse. Someone here is lying real bad to the American people and it needs to stop


What the hell are you talking about Jet Lag.. AQ is claiming responsibility for most of the attacks...

Is that a Bush plot?

jetdawgg
06-27-07, 03:35 PM
What the hell are you talking about Jet Lag.. AQ is claiming responsibility for most of the attacks...

Is that a Bush plot?

As per the FIX'ed News er FOX Noise Channel and other right wing MSM outlets.....

HOLM
06-27-07, 03:47 PM
As per the FIX'ed News er FOX Noise Channel and other right wing MSM outlets.....

NO As per AQ... tune into Al Jezzra sometime..

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/BE36B87D-5D66-4F3E-9BB6-7A0166FD8086.htm


Or go here..


http://www.tkb.org/Home.jsp


http://www.tkb.org/Group.jsp?groupID=4416

jetdawgg
06-27-07, 03:58 PM
NO As per AQ... tune into Al Jezzra sometime..

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/BE36B87D-5D66-4F3E-9BB6-7A0166FD8086.htm


Or go here..


http://www.tkb.org/Home.jsp


http://www.tkb.org/Group.jsp?groupID=4416

HOLM, please let me clue you in on a secret, again. Al-Jezeera is a bunch of newsfeeds. Just like Yahoo News. (MSM) Particularly the "English" version.

drumcorpssnare
06-27-07, 03:59 PM
jetdawgg- If it's NOT armed, un-uniformed ??? our troops are confronting, show me the organized MILITARY, in UNIFORM, that America is fighting!
The fact that they fight in civilian clothing, and immediately "melt" into the populace, makes them terrorist insurgents. Cut and dried. No "gray" area.
If they were fighting "only" our military, I might be able to cut you a little slack here. But, in addition to killing our troops, our enemy is murdering innocent men, women, and children. So enlighten me. How are they NOT terrorists?
drumcorpssnare:usmc:

HOLM
06-27-07, 04:00 PM
HOLM, please let me clue you in on a secret, again. Al-Jezeera is a bunch of newsfeeds. Just like Yahoo News. (MSM) Particularly the "English" version.
SO ****** what.. They still choose which bits and pieces to show..

AAAANNNNDDDD

They sure as hell are not FOX... And AQ claims responibilty for most of the attacks in Iraq on their network...

HOLM
06-27-07, 04:01 PM
jetdawgg- If it's NOT armed, un-uniformed ??? our troops are confronting, show me the organized MILITARY, in UNIFORM, that America is fighting!
The fact that they fight in civilian clothing, and immediately "melt" into the populace, makes them terrorist insurgents. Cut and dried. No "gray" area.
If they were fighting "only" our military, I might be able to cut you a little slack here. But, in addition to killing our troops, our enemy is murdering innocent men, women, and children. So enlighten me. How are they NOT terrorists?
drumcorpssnare:usmc:


I want to hear cries from the left that the bastards need to put uniforms on...

That would be the day..

jetdawgg
06-27-07, 04:04 PM
jetdawgg- If it's NOT armed, un-uniformed ??? our troops are confronting, show me the organized MILITARY, in UNIFORM, that America is fighting!
The fact that they fight in civilian clothing, and immediately "melt" into the populace, makes them terrorist insurgents. Cut and dried. No "gray" area.
If they were fighting "only" our military, I might be able to cut you a little slack here. But, in addition to killing our troops, our enemy is murdering innocent men, women, and children. So enlighten me. How are they NOT terrorists?
drumcorpssnare:usmc:

drums, what did they call these same type of people in 'Nam?

jetdawgg
06-27-07, 04:07 PM
SO ****** what.. They still choose which bits and pieces to show..

AAAANNNNDDDD

They sure as hell are not FOX... And AQ claims responibilty for most of the attacks in Iraq on their network...

HOLM, did you ever finish here?

http://www.crazedfanboy.com/npcr/images/romper_room_diploma.jpg

HOLM
06-27-07, 04:14 PM
And you are the one boo hooing about "personal attacks"?


I can play that game.. But I don't fight fair

Mr Propeller puppy...





OH.. BTW.. Nothing to say, Come on, I am sure Al Jezzeera is just another right wing sheeple network.. I mean promoting the beheadings and claiming that AQ is responsible for attacks in Iraq and all... (as early as July 2003 BTW)

jetdawgg
06-27-07, 04:29 PM
HOLM, I am not going to be your punching bag.

I see that you are thinking a bit now. Both sides of this thing play on each other.

drumcorpssnare
06-27-07, 04:31 PM
jetdawgg- They were called VC, Charlie, Victor Charles, guerillas, insurgents, etc. Same as Rogers' Rangers in the French & Indian War. Same as Quantrell's Raiders in the Civil War. Same as the Resistance in France in WW II.
Point is, this "type" of warfare has always been considered chickensh!t by organized professional armies!

By their own description, they hope to bring terror into the hearts of any "unbelievers".

Your move.
drumcorpssnare:usmc:

jetdawgg
06-27-07, 04:38 PM
New Name, Same Game.

The reason they are called 'terrorists' now is that is the 911 link. The link that Americans 'know fear' from. A link that will draw upon a certain emotion.

Much like when you go to the stadium and see a football game. The organist gets the crowd in a frenzy. If they called them 'IC' or 'Iraqi Cong', they could not play '911' emotional card games.:usmc:

The nomeclature of 'Cong' would bring up images and emotions of 'Nam. Not a smart or popular thing if you want to keep this thing going.

Sgt Leprechaun
06-27-07, 06:10 PM
No. "They" were called terrorists long before 9/11. The left is hung up on Iraq and all that, but the Islamic terrorists were in place and active long before then.

The left would like to keep 9/11 in a vacum if at all possible, but it's not. It's one big piece of a very large mosiac of terror attacks that really began many years ago. It was the culmination, if you will, of the little pinpricks that were done.

Again, I say, (and it's not my original quote), "Our response to terrorism should make the world gasp".

And, "Being hated by the world is like being out in the rain....you can only get so wet, and then it ceases to matter".

No matter how much we were to "give" these people, unless we literally pull out of every single other country, and not allow our own citizens to leave ours, plus allow the arab armies to destroy Isreal, we will never have 'peace' that the left seeks. And, if we do that, we are no longer America, and no longer 'rate' that title. We will have become a self contained Nation of Sheep.

I would rather go down fighting, thank you very much, than be led to the cattle cars meekly.

Crypto Tech for an MOS, huh? Impressive. That takes some smarts. Hope you got to parlay that into a lucrative career. (Seriously LOL).

FistFu68
06-27-07, 06:35 PM
:evilgrin: THE TERRORIST ARE DOING WHAT THEY HAVE TOO,THEY WILL NEVER GO TOE TO TOE WITH US.CAN'T BLAME THEM DIRTY TRICK'S IS THE NAME OF THE GAME.IT'S OUR REALITY,WE HAVE TOO USE WHAT WE USED USED IN VIET-NAM,THE PHOENIX PROGRAM;TERROR AGAINST TERROR.I'M REALLY DISAPPOINTED IN OUR COUNTER-INSURGENCY PROGRAM!!!:evilgrin: :iwo:

artymarine
06-27-07, 07:58 PM
Lep, you are sumping else man.

For he today , who sheds his blood with me, shall be my brother.
Semper fi

artymarine
06-27-07, 07:58 PM
Lep, you are sumping else man.

For he today , who sheds his blood with me, shall be my brother.
Semper fi

Sgt Leprechaun
06-27-07, 09:06 PM
Thanks, Master Guns. Back at ya.

coffeecoven
06-27-07, 09:28 PM
The media turns against evey battle we engage. They should stop trying
to tell us how to fight,-----give us what we

coffeecoven
06-27-07, 09:37 PM
The media turns against evey battle we engage. They should stop trying
to tell us how to fight,and give us what we need so we can finish the job
for honor and country SEMPER FI How about ivestigating some
of those media people? and thier propaganda "WILL THE REAL TERRORISTS
STAND UP PLEASE"

JCam0331
06-28-07, 09:18 AM
Scoring The War
By INVESTOR'S BUSINESS DAILY
Posted Monday, June 25, 2007

War And The Media: Day after day, Americans are treated to a never-ending, mind-numbing parade of statistics about the number of U.S. troops killed in Iraq and Afghanistan. But what about the terrorists?

One way the media distort Americans' view of the ongoing war against terrorists is by focusing on just one side in the conflict: ours. Whether it's the daily body count or alleged abuses at Abu Ghraib or Guantanamo, the public could be forgiven for thinking the U.S. is not only losing the war, but behaving badly in doing so.

But neither is true. This year, for instance, the U.S. has killed roughly 650 terrorists a month, according to published reports and Defense Department estimates. That compares with about 37 U.S. combat deaths per month, through May.

The ratio, thus, is about 18 terrorists killed in combat for every allied soldier killed. And that doesn't include the current offensive in Diayala Province, Operation Arrowhead Ripper, which dispatched 159 enemy combatants in just the first five days.

Since the war began, we've lost about 70 troops a month. This compares with 526 a month in Vietnam, more than 900 a month in Korea and 6,639 a month during World War II.

In other words, by any meaningful metric employed, the U.S. is winning this war. But it will never be reported that way.

This is nothing new. Go back to Vietnam. Remember the "five o'clock follies," when the press routinely ridiculed Pentagon casualty reports? The Vietnam syndrome continues to this day.

Only now it's the media misreporting the numbers. Just weeks into the war in 2003, we started hearing the now-oft-repeated canard that Iraq was worse off with the U.S. than with Saddam. This is so plainly wrong that it must be called what it is: a lie.

And yet, it's repeated to this day. Here again, the numbers tell the tale. In his 24 years as Iraq's Stalinist supreme leader, Saddam Hussein killed at least 2 million people. That averages out to about 6,944 a month for the better part of three decades.

Most responsible estimates show that, at most, 60,000 or so civilians have been killed since the war started, about 1,200 a month.

Moreover, no one doubts that Saddam was responsible for all 2 million of his deaths. In the case of the U.S., most of the civilian deaths come from al-Qaida and other terrorists, not U.S. troops.

We got to thinking about this as a result of Operation Arrowhead Ripper, which began a week ago. It involves some 10,000 U.S. troops trying to rid Diyala Province of al-Qaida terrorists. It's one of the biggest, if not the biggest, operations since the war began.

And yet, when we looked for news of how this huge effort in the war on terror was going, the focus was all on American fatalities.

Since Vietnam, the media have approached each military conflict with the same template: "U.S. Wrong, Foe Right." And they've reported accordingly. That's why wanton murderers of women and children are generously called "fighters" by our own media, while errors by our own troops are tarred as war crimes.

So, in a sense, we are losing a war - the war for Americans' hearts and minds, fought daily on America's TV screens and front pages. But in the real war, our troops are fighting bravely and well - and it's about time someone started keeping score.

Amen and Semper Fidelis,
fontman


The author of this article obviously knows nothing about war strategy.

This war was NEVER about body count, and it never will be.