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10thzodiac
06-19-07, 10:39 PM
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="85%" align=center><TBODY><TR vAlign=center><TD><!-- google_ad_section_start -->Published on Tuesday, June 19, 2007 by the Independent/UK (http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/article2675733.ece) Bush and Rumsfeld ‘Knew about Abu Ghraib’

by David Usborne

The two-star Army General who led the first military investigation into human rights abuses at Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq has bluntly questioned the integrity of former US Secretary of Defence, Donald Rumsfeld, suggesting he misled the US Congress by downplaying his own prior knowledge of what had happened.
Major General Antonio Taguba also claimed in an interview with The New Yorker magazine published yesterday that President George Bush also “had to be aware” of the atrocities despite saying at the time of the scandal that he had been out of the loop until he saw images in the US media.http://www.commondreams.org/archive/wp-content/photos/0619_03.jpg (http://www.commondreams.org/archive/wp-content/photos/0619_03.jpg)

The White House issued a response denying the claim, however. “The President said over three years ago that he first saw the pictures of the abuse on the television,” Scott Stanzel, a spokesman, said.

In the extensive interview, Maj-Gen Taguba insisted that at the very least Mr Rumsfeld “was in denial” at a congressional hearing in May 2004, when he said he had only become aware of the extent of the abuse - and seen some of the shocking photographic evidence - one day before. The Secretary told members of Congress that the images published in the media were “not yet in the Pentagon”.

Mr Rumsfeld had summoned Maj-Gen Taguba to the Pentagon on the eve of the hearing, which took place one week after first US media reports of the abuse surfaced in The New Yorker and on CBS News. Yet the General had begun his investigation several months earlier, in January 2004, and had circulated his finished report to Pentagon managers - with pictures and a video - several weeks before seeing Mr Rumsfeld. “The photographs were available to him - if he wanted to see them,” Maj-Gen Taguba said.

As for the Secretary’s congressional appearance, he claimed: “Rumsfeld is very perceptive and has a mind like a steel trap. There’s no way he’s suffering from CRS - Can’t Remember Sh*t. He’s trying to acquit himself.”

Mr Bush has since conceded that the abuse at Abu Ghraib is the one thing he regrets about the war in Iraq. The photographs that became public at the time - and sparked worldwide condemnation - showed US jailers humiliating inmates who were naked, hooded, on leashes or piled into a human pyramid.

Maj-Gen Taguba said that other material not yet publicly disclosed or mentioned in subsequent trials included a video showing “a male American soldier in uniform sodomising a female detainee”. The first wave of images he received also included images of sexual humiliation between a father and his son.
The General said he was ordered to limit his inquiry into the conduct of military police at the jail even as he became convinced they had a green light from higher up. “Somebody was giving them guidance but I was legally prevented from further investigation into higher authority. I was limited to a box.” He adds: “Even today … those civilian and military leaders responsible should be held accountable.”

The General also tells the New Yorker that he became a victim of his own dedication to finding the truth when he was subsequently forced to retire early. In early 2006, he said, he received a phone call from a higher-ranking colleague telling him he was expected to retire by January this year, after more than 30 years of service. His conclusion: he was being punished for that first investigation.

“They always shoot the messenger,” Maj-Gen Taguba told Seymour Hersh of The New Yorker. “To be accused of being overzealous and disloyal - that cuts deep into me. I was being ostracised for doing what I was asked to do.”



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greensideout
06-19-07, 11:10 PM
If they are wearing stars on their epaulet, they are nothing less then politiicians.
He got bit in the azz by his fellows. He joined the club and knew the odds.
It has little if anything to do with reality.

yellowwing
06-20-07, 04:33 AM
Eve if they can legally and Sea Lawyerly get of of this drill, they can still invoke the 325 year Presidential thingies.

Okay, sure that is technically and legally bound to circumvent public People's Congressional Law. So in 2008 do you want Obama or Clinton to have this unquestioned same Empirical Power?

Fraks Sakes! Even when the RNC had TOTAL Congressional Power, GWB did not trust them to appoint his RNC Judges, Prosecutors, and a Ambassadors. He appointed them in Congressional Recess so he had no technical legal opposition.

This has nothing to do with is Duties As Commander In Chief during War. What does a Judge and Prosecutor from Chicago have to do to with winning in AL Anbar?

MY BET? They will soon be judging the rezoning of Gerrymandering election zoning in many districts.

So many Serve At the Pleasure of THE PRESIDENT. Knock, knock...The President serves the President of the People of These United States Of America. As Prescribed OF THE CONSTITUTION AS ALL VETERANS SWEAR TO.

I was educated IN the 6th Grade to Civics and the US Constitution. That six weeks class was the basics why I enlisted 6 years later.

Okay, GUT CHECK TIME! How Many Marines Would Support And Defend GWB as Commander in Chief Against All enemies Foreign and Domestic

No Matter what the BASIC US constitution demand for commons Citizens?

Just look at the repeated failing Gitmo Trial Direction for he US Attorneys.

THEY HAVE NOT WON CASE NUMBER ONE! Why has that escaped the supposedly uber liberal Gray Lady?

For years we have cultivated at great expensive foreign allies and influence.

Now there is more reports that the Administrative RNC is trying to circumvent the latest effort to skirt the solid legal judicial email trails.

Its got nothing to do with the war on Terror, it obvious he wants to sea lawlessly skirt the Congressional and People Demand to Administrative Accountability.

We will do what ever we fraking want! We will make it the law under articles of war! Frak the Constitution!

Its the LAW. Is the Commander in Chief in War Time ABOVE THE LAW? Really a Good Question.

erased
06-20-07, 05:20 AM
"Okay, GUT CHECK TIME! How Many Marines Would Support And Defend GWB as Commander in Chief Against All enemies Foreign and Domestic"

Not a chance in hell. I swore to protect the Constitution, not some ****-head, daddy's boy, give-me-an-oil-company-and-I'll-bankrupt-it, redneck who wants to rule the world.

"Is the Commander in Chief in War Time ABOVE THE LAW? Really a Good Question."

No, no matter what Bush's cronies say to the contrary.

Sgt Leprechaun
06-20-07, 11:49 AM
Erased, I felt, and feel, the same way about boyclinton and his minions. But, you know what? I went and did what I was told, when I was told to do it.

I believe your 'above the law' quote could just as easily be applied to clinton and company during HIS administration. Something you lefties tend to forget.

Think of this, for quick minute.....the Dems somehow pull off the election in 08 and take not only the congress but the presidency. Will you be so apt to babble on about the Constitution and all that then? Oh, no, it will be "They know what's best for ALL of us".

Powers restricted or invented by one party to bash another are just as quickly used by the opposing side when THEY get into power. Something to remember.

yellowwing
06-20-07, 12:39 PM
Sgt Grabil, I know you asked Bro erased but I gots to chime in. The standard line is God, Country and Corps. But me I believe God, Corps and Country.

We are small but powerful. Since 1775 its been that way. And we live with that and fear not. We can go forth at a severely tactical disadvantage and win the day.

The tough moral questions come when ANY Govt wants to warp our Duty. Yeah if the Dems get loopy on 2009, I'll rant and rave on them too.

jetdawgg
06-20-07, 12:41 PM
Yellowing you really identified the primary issue, the republicans are loyal to a man and the 'liberals' are loyal to the constitution

Sgt Leprechaun
06-20-07, 12:44 PM
YW, believe it or not I feel the same way you do.

And, Jet, does what you said hold true in say, circa 1998 when Clinton was Prez?

I think not.

jetdawgg
06-20-07, 12:53 PM
YW, believe it or not I feel the same way you do.

And, Jet, does what you said hold true in say, circa 1998 when Clinton was Prez?

I think not.

Mr. Clinton is not president. How about looking at today vice facing yesterday?

Stop blaming Clinton. Bush is the president

yellowwing
06-20-07, 12:54 PM
Yellowing you really identified the primary issue, the republicans are loyal to a man and the 'liberals' are loyal to the constitution
Is that really true? All these politcal deals and posturing. We shall see if they hold the vision and direction of what is really America. Or have they also forgotten? Time will tell.

Sgt Leprechaun
06-20-07, 12:58 PM
Mr. Clinton is not president. How about looking at today vice facing yesterday?

Stop blaming Clinton. Bush is the president

Ah, but it begs the question.....since it seems that the dems are all too happy to bash Bush for various and sundry things, bring up the Constitution, etc.

Heck, that spiel that you posted earlier could just as easily have been written by a Republican operative (love that word) during 1999.

So, the door swings both ways.

jetdawgg
06-20-07, 01:01 PM
Ah, but it begs the question.....since it seems that the dems are all too happy to bash Bush for various and sundry things, bring up the Constitution, etc.

Heck, that spiel that you posted earlier could just as easily have been written by a Republican operative (love that word) during 1999.

So, the door swings both ways.

That may all be true. Today is what I am living for, not yesterday and this admin has screwed up in a big way.

There has never been an administration labeled as "incompetent". Not Nixon, who was thrown out, or Carter who was shamed out.

jetdawgg
06-20-07, 01:02 PM
Is that really true? All these politcal deals and posturing. We shall see if they hold the vision and direction of what is really America. Or have they also forgotten? Time will tell.

I only hope that they have not forgotten. It has been a while, a long while since we have been America

yellowwing
06-20-07, 01:06 PM
Okay back to Abu Graib and Camp X-Ray. Yeah at a Company level, tie their nuts to a car battery to expediently save Marine Lives ASAP. The Sh*t is over in 48 hours.

But strategically it boggles my mind why they want to set legal precendent to hold human beings without rights and trials. For years the Courts keep shooting them down. "You just can't do that."

But they keep trying. Why?

jetdawgg
06-20-07, 01:10 PM
Okay back to Abu Graib and Camp X-Ray. Yeah at a Company level, tie their nuts to a car battery to expediently save Marine Lives ASAP. The Sh*t is over in 48 hours.

But strategically it boggles my mind why they want to set legal precendent to hold human beings without rights and trials. For years the Courts keep shooting them down. "You just can't do that."

But they keep trying. Why?

HAL, XOM, BA, BP......

yellowwing
06-20-07, 01:16 PM
Aw come on don't be cryptic, or at least come down to my 12th grade level. WTF is "HAL, XOM, BA, BP......"?

jetdawgg
06-20-07, 01:29 PM
Aw come on don't be cryptic, or at least come down to my 12th grade level. WTF is "HAL, XOM, BA, BP......"?

Hal= Halliburton
XOM = Exxon Mobil
BA = Boeing
BP = British Peroleum

source NYSE

Sgt Leprechaun
06-20-07, 01:50 PM
I thought HAL was the computer in "2001".... LOL

erased
06-20-07, 02:22 PM
I believe your 'above the law' quote could just as easily be applied to clinton and company during HIS administration. Something you lefties tend to forget.

Oh, absolutely. They're all equally douche-bags. NOT EVERYONE WHO DISAGREES WITH YOU IS A ******* LEFTY -- Something you "righties" tend to forget.

Sgt Leprechaun
06-20-07, 02:42 PM
Only those who loudly proclaim they are, are. If the label fits, great. If not, why YELL about it?

I love seeing lefties get hysterical.

erased
06-20-07, 02:48 PM
Only those who loudly proclaim they are, are. If the label fits, great. If not, why YELL about it?

I love seeing lefties get hysterical.

So if I sit here and call you a transvestite ass-clown, time after time, it won't get on your nerves at all?

Sgt Leprechaun
06-20-07, 03:17 PM
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Hilarious.

No. Because I don't have guilt feelings about being, or wanting to be, or ever having BEEN a 'transvestite ass clown'.

I am, however, a lesbian trapped in a mans body.

HOLM
06-20-07, 04:07 PM
That may all be true. Today is what I am living for, not yesterday and this admin has screwed up in a big way.

There has never been an administration labeled as "incompetent". Not Nixon, who was thrown out, or Carter who was shamed out.


WRONG....

Both Lincoln and Truman were labeled in such a manner...


Do you need examples of this???

Up to this point it is difficult to determine which, Lincoln or his generals, are more incompetent. While the South has retained Lee to command its forces, Lincoln has set up and retired more generals than any other commander in chief in the history of nations. First was Irvin McDowell, who was relieved after an embarrassing defeat at Manassas. He was replaced by George McClellan, who was later relieved when it became obvious he wouldn’t fight. Next was Pope, who was relieved after an unexplainable defeat at Manassas...then McClellan was reinstated, but the camels back was broken when he reported he couldn’t engage the enemy because “his horses’ backs were tired.” He was replaced again with Ambrose Burnside, whose short military career ended after a loosing assault at Fredericksville. 12,600 dead. They now lay before me. What now Mr. President? The best you employ seems to be the spineless McClellen who more closely resembles a toy soldier than a warrior; a Democrat man who sympathizes with the enemy’s pro-slave doctrine and habitually relies on erroneous intelligence that exaggerates enemy manpower, and causes him to do essentially nothing but stand still.

At the outset of the campaign, Douglas' chances looked slim. As a delegate to the 1948 Democratic National Convention (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Democratic_National_Convention), he had tried to draft General Dwight D. Eisenhower (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dwight_D._Eisenhower) for President, calling President Harry S. Truman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_S._Truman) "incompetent."

Sgt Leprechaun
06-20-07, 04:09 PM
I figured we had deteriorated past that point so I didn't bother.

But, yeah. You are right, HOLM.

drumcorpssnare
06-20-07, 04:12 PM
...and lest we forget the administration of U.S. Grant. Rampant corruption and graft. Gambling and prostitution in the White House. Literally the birth of "lobbying", etc.
drumcorpssnare:usmc:

jetdawgg
06-20-07, 04:19 PM
WRONG....

Both Lincoln and Truman were labeled in such a manner...


Do you need examples of this???

Up to this point it is difficult to determine which, Lincoln or his generals, are more incompetent. While the South has retained Lee to command its forces, Lincoln has set up and retired more generals than any other commander in chief in the history of nations. First was Irvin McDowell, who was relieved after an embarrassing defeat at Manassas. He was replaced by George McClellan, who was later relieved when it became obvious he wouldn’t fight. Next was Pope, who was relieved after an unexplainable defeat at Manassas...then McClellan was reinstated, but the camels back was broken when he reported he couldn’t engage the enemy because “his horses’ backs were tired.” He was replaced again with Ambrose Burnside, whose short military career ended after a loosing assault at Fredericksville. 12,600 dead. They now lay before me. What now Mr. President? The best you employ seems to be the spineless McClellen who more closely resembles a toy soldier than a warrior; a Democrat man who sympathizes with the enemy’s pro-slave doctrine and habitually relies on erroneous intelligence that exaggerates enemy manpower, and causes him to do essentially nothing but stand still.

At the outset of the campaign, Douglas' chances looked slim. As a delegate to the 1948 Democratic National Convention (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Democratic_National_Convention), he had tried to draft General Dwight D. Eisenhower (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dwight_D._Eisenhower) for President, calling President Harry S. Truman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_S._Truman) "incompetent."




Not Wrong. I was not alive then. I need to complete the message with "IN MY LIFETIME"

HOLM
06-20-07, 04:25 PM
Not Wrong. I was not alive then. I need to complete the message with "IN MY LIFETIME"

That is the most spineless, weak and ridiculous retort I have seen in a long time....


Because every "smart person" would know that all the important, and relevant events in history( and mankind) have only occurred in JetDawgs lifetime...

jetdawgg
06-20-07, 04:30 PM
That is the most spineless, weak and ridiculous retort I have seen in a long time....


Because every "smart person" would know that all the important, and relevant events in history( and mankind) have only occurred in JetDawgs lifetime...

I was specific in pointing out a time frame (70's). It must have somehow avoided your tiny brain.

Oh, now I get it. you were checking out the flight times on El Al:D

Are you related to that architect guy?

Sgt Leprechaun
06-20-07, 04:33 PM
In MY lifetime, a man walked on the moon!

Al Gore invented the internet.

Clinton invented the hummer.

:)

HOLM
06-20-07, 04:33 PM
Yeah jet my tiny brain missed that....




Yellowing you really identified the primary issue, the republicans are loyal to a man and the 'liberals' are loyal to the constitution
________________



Mr. Clinton is not president. How about looking at today vice facing yesterday?

Stop blaming Clinton. Bush is the president


Originally Posted by Sgt Leprechaun
Ah, but it begs the question.....since it seems that the dems are all too happy to bash Bush for various and sundry things, bring up the Constitution, etc.

Heck, that spiel that you posted earlier could just as easily have been written by a Republican operative (love that word) during 1999.

So, the door swings both ways.

That may all be true. Today is what I am living for, not yesterday and this admin has screwed up in a big way.

There has never been an administration labeled as "incompetent". Not Nixon, who was thrown out, or Carter who was shamed out.


My bad....

jetdawgg
06-20-07, 04:42 PM
HOLM, please quit while you have a chance to. Post #12 in this thread states:



That may all be true. Today is what I am living for, not yesterday and this admin has screwed up in a big way.

There has never been an administration labeled as "incompetent". Not Nixon, who was thrown out, or Carter who was shamed out.


That quote is by me. I suggest you stop now. You are related to that architect guy...

Again, I ommitted the part about my lifetime, but the 70's Presidents are clearly spelled out for all but you.

HOLM
06-20-07, 04:56 PM
"never been an administration"

jetdawgg
06-20-07, 05:05 PM
"never been an administration"






Last cycle..........

tsk, tsk....I reiterate 'in my lifetime' and in the post 12 of this thread you will see (if you can read other than what you want to) that the presidents listed are from the 70's.


YOU LOSE. The flight is waiting

HOLM
06-20-07, 06:25 PM
hummm you said... "never been an administration"

and then listed a couple presidents..

Then I am suposed to think that because you listed some blowhards from the 70's that you meant only the 70's..

Then your retort is.. "I meant to say "in my lifetime""

HAHAHAHAHAHA..

What exactly would "never been an administration" and " your lifetime"have to do with each other...



The world ticks to your clock... huh...

You are so right. You are way out of my league...



BTW... Tell me please, oh wise one.. Just WHY exactly were Truman and Lincoln labeled "incompetent"

10thzodiac
06-20-07, 07:16 PM
http://bp2.blogger.com/_b9IqT2FYq3E/RndU3NC1hgI/AAAAAAAAAbM/u5-bLJ5XqFs/s400/06_19_07.gif (http://bp2.blogger.com/_b9IqT2FYq3E/RndU3NC1hgI/AAAAAAAAAbM/u5-bLJ5XqFs/s1600-h/06_19_07.gif)

According to a scathing new report (http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2007/06/25/070625fa_fact_hersh) by investigative reporter Semour Hersh, not only did former Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld know about (http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/article2675733.ece) the abuses taking place in Abu Ghraib prison, but he deliberately lied under oath to a Congressional committee (http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/05/07/politics.abuse.main/) about how much he knew of the scandal and when he initially found out.

In his testimony, Rumsfeld claimed that he only learned about the abuse (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Ghraib_prisoner_abuse) when he saw the footage... after it was leaked to the public in early 2004. Before then, he had absolutely no idea that there was anything wrong in Iraq, because apparently he was too busy jamming his fingers in his ears and humming the "Star-Spangled Banner", to bother to find out.

You see, in the wonderful world of Donald Rumsfeld EVERYTHING is subjective and a simple matter of interpretation. While efforts may have been made to tell him about Abu Ghraib, Rumsfeld could still claim to have had no "prior knowledge" of the scandal because he was successfully able to ignore these attempts to inform him and thus avoid any responsibility for the situation.

JCam0331
06-20-07, 10:30 PM
If they are wearing stars on their epaulet, they are nothing less then politiicians.
He got bit in the azz by his fellows. He joined the club and knew the odds.
It has little if anything to do with reality.

Nothing less than politicians? Since when has war and politics ever been mutually exclusive? War ALWAYS involves politics.

You don't think the US CENTCOM Commander has to deal with political issues even though he is a field commander?

As Von Clausewitz said: "War is merely a continuation of politics"


how true.

10thzodiac
06-20-07, 10:42 PM
http://www.toostupidtobepresident.com/shockwave/campredemption.htm

jetdawgg
06-21-07, 08:26 AM
HOLM you are an extremist. Typical of what has transpired with the republican party.

I hope that you get some medical attention soon.:usmc:

I am serious

HOLM
06-21-07, 09:56 AM
HOLM you are an extremist. Typical of what has transpired with the republican party.

I hope that you get some medical attention soon.:usmc:

I am serious



WHY exactly were Truman and Lincoln labeled "incompetent"

yellowwing
06-21-07, 10:02 AM
HOLM you are an extremist. Typical of what has transpired with the republican party.

I hope that you get some medical attention soon.:usmc:

I am serious
LMAO, maybe dose of reality an truth? Its all going screwy for the RNC. The public is running like mad to leave that sinking ship.

No worries America, Wars Come and Go. The Marines will ALWAYS have your Back!

Sgt Leprechaun
06-21-07, 10:07 AM
Oh, that's an easy one.

Because both were perceived by the public, at the time, to have gotten 'us' bogged down in a war of attrition with no end.

Since the anniversary is fast approaching us of Gettysburg, it might be useful to know that most people today consider G-Burg the 'high water mark' of the Civil War. It wasn't thought so then. (Hindsight again). And, there was still nearly 2 more years of hard fighting before the war would end.

Lincoln still had an election in November of 1864, a full year away (and then some), and it wasn't a cakewalk by any means. A retired General (who Lincoln had sacked) McClellan, gave him a good run for his money, criticizing the war, war policy, Lincoln's choice of Generals (Grant, known at the time as 'Butcher' for the Cold Harbor Debacle), Lincolns suspension of habeus corpus, and other things. Lincoln went so far as to banish a 'copperhead' (pro Southern) Democratic Congressmen, Clement Vandallingham, behind Southern lines.

So, at the time, many people believed Lincoln a failure. There were certainly plenty of folks in the North that didn't support Lincoln one iota.

Now, of course, history sees him as a great man. But during that time, the jury was still out.

jetdawgg
06-21-07, 10:07 AM
WHY exactly were Truman and Lincoln labeled "incompetent"

You are an extremist. Why are you attempting to hijack the thread? To prove what? I made my point clearly, several times at that.

If you really need to know that info, Google it yourself:usmc:

I am sending a call out to the doctor at the VA in SC that I took a picture with so she can get you the proper care Marine.

yellowwing
06-21-07, 10:14 AM
Naw, Bro. Its not a hijacking. These little "discussions" evolve and take on their own directions and thought. Its the only Intelligent Design argument that really works.

Sgt Leprechaun
06-21-07, 10:16 AM
Very true YW. Amazing to see the directions these things go sometimes.

yellowwing
06-21-07, 10:19 AM
Oh, that's an easy one.

Because both were perceived by the public, at the time, to have gotten 'us' bogged down in a war of attrition with no end.

Since the anniversary is fast approaching us of Gettysburg, it might be useful to know that most people today consider G-Burg the 'high water mark' of the Civil War. It wasn't thought so then. (Hindsight again). And, there was still nearly 2 more years of hard fighting before the war would end.

Lincoln still had an election in November of 1864, a full year away (and then some), and it wasn't a cakewalk by any means. A retired General (who Lincoln had sacked) McClellan, gave him a good run for his money, criticizing the war, war policy, Lincoln's choice of Generals (Grant, known at the time as 'Butcher' for the Cold Harbor Debacle), Lincolns suspension of habeus corpus, and other things. Lincoln went so far as to banish a 'copperhead' (pro Southern) Democratic Congressmen, Clement Vandallingham, behind Southern lines.

So, at the time, many people believed Lincoln a failure. There were certainly plenty of folks in the North that didn't support Lincoln one iota.

Now, of course, history sees him as a great man. But during that time, the jury was still out.
That had to have been nerve wracking. You got to fight a war and get Nationally reelected. Each one requires the full attention of an Extraordinary Man. But both at once?

jetdawgg
06-21-07, 10:24 AM
Naw, Bro. Its not a hijacking. These little "discussions" evolve and take on their own directions and thought. Its the only Intelligent Design argument that really works.

I used the word 'hijack' do to the fact that the thread was/is about 'Abu Ghraib' not about 'incompetent dead presidents'.

Clearly a shift in subject imo

Sgt Leprechaun
06-21-07, 10:30 AM
That had to have been nerve wracking. You got to fight a war and get Nationally reelected. Each one requires the full attention of an Extraordinary Man. But both at once?

Exactly. And, don't forget also, the Confederates do one more invasion of Maryland, in July of 1864, one year after Gettysburg. This one actually came closer to Washington than the last, with Early's Confederates in the outskirts of Washington DC.

yellowwing
06-21-07, 10:30 AM
Well yeah, we've been hashing it out for four pages now. Relax Bro, In the grand scheme of things it is a little discussion between a few Marines.

All participants are free to call out, "redirect Your Honor..."

jetdawgg
06-21-07, 10:31 AM
Well yeah, we've been hashing it out for four pages now. Relax Bro, In the grand scheme of things it is a little discussion between a few Marines.

All participants are free to call out, "redirect Your Honor..."

Yo trato......:usmc:

yellowwing
06-21-07, 10:36 AM
Yo trato, me Espanol is rusty these days. Or is that Latin?

jetdawgg
06-21-07, 10:38 AM
I'll try....:D

yellowwing
06-21-07, 10:40 AM
Good! You can't effectively debate us if you keep getting above us!

Sgt Leprechaun
06-21-07, 10:41 AM
Yeah, no kiddin. Looks like some kinda Eye-talian insult to me!!

LOL

10thzodiac
06-21-07, 10:48 AM
That had to have been nerve wracking. You got to fight a war and get Nationally reelected. Each one requires the full attention of an Extraordinary Man. But both at once?

It doesn't matter, the MIC doesn't loose, the joke is on the president [us].

You know, like pollution causes people...

http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/30.gif

yellowwing
06-21-07, 10:49 AM
Okay originally 10thZ pointed out they retired the General appointed to oversee the investigation.

Can anyone else see the consistent pattern?

drumcorpssnare
06-21-07, 12:53 PM
...and the Hildabeast knew Slick Willie was gettin' his winky licked... So what!
Those pukes weren't put into Abu Ghraib because they were "model citizens."
drumcorpssnare:usmc:

jetdawgg
06-21-07, 12:55 PM
...and the Hildabeast knew Slick Willie was gettin' his winky licked... So what!
Those pukes weren't put into Abu Ghraib because they were "model citizens."
drumcorpssnare:usmc:

The problem is that this admin skirted treaties that were in place for decades to implement this prison. That is the rub

Echo_Four_Bravo
06-21-07, 12:56 PM
I am so tired of the Abu Ghraib story BS. If what happened there was torture the people in my fraternity were war criminals and my DIs may have been the most evil people in the history of the world.

jetdawgg
06-21-07, 12:59 PM
I am so tired of the Abu Ghraib story BS. If what happened there was torture the people in my fraternity were war criminals and my DIs may have been the most evil people in the history of the world.

The Washington DC lawyers get the blame here:D

drumcorpssnare
06-21-07, 01:09 PM
jetdawgg- Part of what enfuriates us moderate/conservatives is the radical P/C crap, when it comes to our enemies.
Although I can't recall the source, I'm certain I heard in the news and read somewhere at about the same time..."the guards at Guantanamo shouldn't raise their voices when interrogating the detainees. It's wrong, and unnessecary. It boarders on cruel and unusual punishment."

Yeah, right... Give me a freakin' break!

drumcorpssnare:usmc:

jetdawgg
06-21-07, 01:16 PM
Drums, we are at a point in the USA where this can become a sign of things to come:

http://www.londonstimes.us/toons/cartoons/viagra.jpg


http://onemanandhiscat.co.uk/someads/images/viagra.jpg

OLE SARG
06-21-07, 03:32 PM
I guess it makes sense to dump all the morons in Abu Graib and Camp X-Ray, into our "civilian jerk-ass legal system" and stop it up even more!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
These *******s, in my opinion, are NOT COVERED UNDER THE GENEVA CONVENTION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AND therefore have NO LEGAL RIGHTS!!!!!!!!!
Just my $.02 and a half cents worth........................................
Plus these *******s should have been dealt with when they were captured!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SEMPER FI,

yellowwing
06-21-07, 05:06 PM
Hey they were on the battlefield trying to kill us. Why not hang them and be done with it? Yet we have this big show of politics and posturing?

JCam0331
06-21-07, 09:59 PM
Hey they were on the battlefield trying to kill us. Why not hang them and be done with it? Yet we have this big show of politics and posturing?

because the United States MUST hold the moral high ground and not stoop to the level of our enemies.

OLE SARG
06-22-07, 08:41 AM
Yeh, and all this PC bull**** is going to be the thing that does us in. **** the rest of the World and too ****ing bad "if they don't like us" ------ that is a leftist cope out and as a Marine you should know that.
In my earlier post, I stated they should have been dealt with when they were captured ------------ which means THEY SHOULD HAVE BEEN DEALT WITH WHEN THEY WERE ATTEMPTING TO ESCAPE WHILE BEING CAPTURED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
All this PC bull**** is just going to get us is more foot-baths in public places (I consider then as urinals and use them as such)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SEMPER FI,

HOLM
06-22-07, 08:46 AM
Yeh, and all this PC bull**** is going to be the thing that does us in. **** the rest of the World and too ****ing bad "if they don't like us" ------ that is a leftist cope out and as a Marine you should know that.
In my earlier post, I stated they should have been dealt with when they were captured ------------ which means THEY SHOULD HAVE BEEN DEALT WITH WHEN THEY WERE ATTEMPTING TO ESCAPE WHILE BEING CAPTURED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
All this PC bull**** is just going to get us is more foot-baths in public places (I consider then as urinals and use them as such)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SEMPER FI,
Oh now come one... Don't **** in the damn things... Use Bacon and make a cross in em, if you must do such things..


I can't ****** believe that chit... If I don't get my ten commandants they have no right to have the foot baths...


tit for tat.. right...

JCam0331
06-22-07, 08:59 AM
Yeh, and all this PC bull**** is going to be the thing that does us in. **** the rest of the World and too ****ing bad "if they don't like us" ------ that is a leftist cope out and as a Marine you should know that.
In my earlier post, I stated they should have been dealt with when they were captured ------------ which means THEY SHOULD HAVE BEEN DEALT WITH WHEN THEY WERE ATTEMPTING TO ESCAPE WHILE BEING CAPTURED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
All this PC bull**** is just going to get us is more foot-baths in public places (I consider then as urinals and use them as such)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SEMPER FI,

First of all...wow I seriously can barely read your posts. Puncatuation and grammar please?

2nd - what do you mean by PC crap?? The simple fact is - in a guerrilla war, for every innocent civilian you kill, he/she has 10 sons, fathers, uncles and friends that will be bitter and ****ed off at the Americans and may go off fighting American soldiers when at first they were minding their own business. So you would be creating more enemies than you are eliminating

understand my logic?

PC crap? This is not PC crap. These are rules of engagement and a moral high ground that LEAD TO VICTORY !!

yellowwing
06-22-07, 09:10 AM
Lead to Victory? From what my older Brother Marines tell me the Path to Victory is to kill the enemy. Its just been that way for ten thousand years.

No I've not seen it personally, and from what they tell I am liucky as hell not to see it personally.

JCam0331
06-22-07, 11:01 AM
Lead to Victory? From what my older Brother Marines tell me the Path to Victory is to kill the enemy. Its just been that way for ten thousand years.

No I've not seen it personally, and from what they tell I am liucky as hell not to see it personally.

kill the enemy...of course

can anyone disagree with that?

but here's the problem - WHO IS THE ENEMY?

Kill the wrong people, and you will create more enemies than you eliminate

jetdawgg
06-22-07, 11:08 AM
kill the enemy...of course

can anyone disagree with that?

but here's the problem - WHO IS THE ENEMY?

Kill the wrong people, and you will create more enemies than you eliminate

Current policy being implemented by this admin:usmc:

JCam0331
06-22-07, 04:48 PM
this admin is inept

OLE SARG
06-23-07, 08:36 AM
You think this administration is inept, what the **** you think it is going to be if a "cut and run" democrat, God forbid, should be, luckily, and if they buy enough votes and have jane fonda kerry sobbing for them, should get elected!!!!!!! Brother YOU AIN'T SEEN INEPT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SEMPER FI,

jetdawgg
06-23-07, 09:59 AM
Ole Sarge enough Americans right now feel that this admin and republicans in general can no longer do the job.

It starts from the top down. From what I have seen (last election results) the republicans will have a great deal of difficulty next year

OLE SARG
06-23-07, 10:11 AM
See post just before yours - STILL APPLYS!!!!!!!! They are all a bunch of self-serving, what can I get for myself, IDIOTS.
"Brother you ain't seen inept" still applys!!!!

SEMPER FI,

jetdawgg
06-23-07, 10:15 AM
Ole Sarge, we did see inept fromthe democrats. They could not even implement "Cut and Run":D

redneck13
06-23-07, 10:57 AM
:evilgrin: Now that the newly elected party of control of the House, the Dem's...ask anyone, (with some intelligence, not some hell bent, hell bound ONE PARTY PERSON) if they are happy with the current newly elected Congress? The one's I've talked to, friend's, and other's, just out of curiosity, be that it may only be a few, they are as "FED UP" with them as never before. The President doesn't have any power to speak of, except when he envokes, Executive Privilige/Power, it's the people, you and I elect that have the power of making new law's, and the President can either veto it, or sign it. I'm not at all satisfied with either party.....I'm a good ol' boy, REDNECK, THANK YOU....and they all make me sick...There's not one bill, one thing that is written by Congress/Senate, where they don't add "PORK" TO it. It's not even about the bill being proposed. Left/right, liberal, conservative, etc. They all suck Teet. /COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

MIKECHRY
06-23-07, 11:14 AM
You're Right, We Shouldn't Hold Them Without A Trial. We Should Shoot Them.

MIKECHRY
06-23-07, 11:27 AM
You Know Being President Is A Not A Job Most Of Us Would Want. Some Of You Guys Make George Out To Be The Devil, But There Are Some Things He Probably Doesn't Want Or Need To Know. I Think They Call That "plausible Deniability". Bottom Line He Has To Rely On His Cabinet And Advisors For Intel And They May Not Have The Same Agenda. He's Got Balls And The Dems Don't Have Any Backbone.

MIKECHRY
06-23-07, 11:28 AM
Hilary Probably Has Bigger Balls That Bill Did But She Is Still A Disaster Waiting To Happen.

jetdawgg
06-23-07, 11:50 AM
MIKECHRY, from the looks of things right now, that 'disaster' is an inevitability

HOLM
06-23-07, 01:06 PM
&lt;table background=&quot;image/en/enbk2.gif&quot; border=&quot;0&quot; cellpadding=&quot;0&quot; cellspacing=&quot;0&quot; width=&quot;100%&quot;&gt;&lt;tbody&gt;&lt;tr valign=&quot;top&quot;&gt;&lt;td rowspan=&quot;2&quot; style=&quot;color: rgb(117, 0, 0);&quot; valign=&quot;top&quot; width=&quot;35%&quot;&gt;&lt;/td&gt; ...

jetdawgg
06-23-07, 01:18 PM
HOLM we all know this information. The Iranians now have an upper hand (moral) on the USA thanks to this situation <br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
And that is the reason why.....

HOLM
06-23-07, 01:30 PM
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA...


They have the upper hand here because saps like you give it to them.. They are one of the most primative cultures on the planet.. and you took the bait...


They ***** about us.. Ya wana see how they treat their prisoners?

HOLM
06-23-07, 01:37 PM
Tehran, Iran, Jun. 20 - Authorities executed a 40-year-old man in public in southern Iran, state media reported on Wednesday. <br />
<br />
The execution was carried in public in the city of Shiraz, the...

jetdawgg
06-23-07, 01:39 PM
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA...


They have the upper hand here because saps like you give it to them.. They are one of the most primative cultures on the planet.. and you took the bait...


They ***** about us.. Ya wana see how they treat their prisoners?

You could be something if you had a brain. I am not for holding captives in GTMO for years with no trial or defense. That is the policy of this admin. I get the blame for it though as I am an American citizen.

I could care less about them. I care about what the USA does and the policies that we have.

HOLM
06-23-07, 01:42 PM
Jet thanks for giving the Iranians the &quot;moral high ground&quot; you are doing good keep it up... <br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
David Smith <br />
<br />
Two women convicted of crimes against morality in Iran are facing imminent...

erased
06-23-07, 01:48 PM
From Amnesty.org

"Iran has issued a temporary reprieve to two people due to be publicly stoned to death, following widespread campaigning by human rights activists"

Damn hippies at it again. Unfortunate that this is only temporary though.

HOLM
06-23-07, 01:56 PM
Oh good... They have temporarily saved those two...


What about these guys

May 19, 2007: 23 murdered in Tehran Security crackdown.


http://www.iran.org/images/javan-18mai.jpg


Twenty-three persons were beaten to death last week in a security crackdown last week in



the south Tehran neighborhhttp://www.iran.org/images/javan-18mai-1.jpg


ood Sarsabel, FDI has learned from sources inside Iran.

The crackdown, ostensibly aimed at homosexuals, prostitutes, drug addicts,
pornographers and vendors of alcohol, was carried out by a special vice squad, who rounded up suspects on Molavi street and brutally beat them in front of witnesses.

In one of the photographs, shown below, a suspect has been collared with a red aftabeh, a clear sign of public humiliation. (The aftabeh is a device normally used in Iran to wash the anus after defecation.)


http://www.iran.org/images/javan2.jpg



Until now, no international news agencies have reported on these murders, although reports have appeared on the baztab.com website and with the Pars News Agency in Farsi.

jetdawgg
06-23-07, 01:57 PM
erased, HOLM is an extremist:D

He can't even keep a story straight from one thread to the next to sustain his own argument

Thanks

HOLM
06-23-07, 01:59 PM
Yeah... I am really worried about GITMO, ABU... whatever..

jetdawgg
06-23-07, 02:04 PM
http://www.flytip.com/blogs/mobility/archives/images/lilbush.jpg

You have to watch this 24/7/365:D

JCam0331
06-23-07, 05:02 PM
You Know Being President Is A Not A Job Most Of Us Would Want. Some Of You Guys Make George Out To Be The Devil, But There Are Some Things He Probably Doesn't Want Or Need To Know. I Think They Call That "plausible Deniability". Bottom Line He Has To Rely On His Cabinet And Advisors For Intel And They May Not Have The Same Agenda. He's Got Balls And The Dems Don't Have Any Backbone.

balls or false bravado??

HOLM
06-23-07, 05:27 PM
Hey jet .... <br />
<br />
<br />
One more thing about the Iranians and GITMO <br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
Journalist and academics accused of conspiracy US accused of trying to overthrow government

10thzodiac
06-23-07, 06:02 PM
Bush and HOLM ‘Knew about Abu Ghraib’

:D

huey guns
06-23-07, 07:05 PM
10z, clinton knew where osama was too. Did his chicken**** butt do anything about it.

jetdawgg
06-24-07, 01:23 PM
Another one of the republicans blaming Clinton. His wife will be president and you will still be blaming him.

He hasn't been president in 7 years, give it a break already.....

OLE SARG
06-24-07, 02:17 PM
But we are still suffering from what the fatass (slippery willie) DIDN'T DO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You are probably right, hildabeast does wear the balls in the family, if there are ANY AT ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SEMPER FI,

erased
06-24-07, 02:22 PM
I seem to recall that a couple of the Bushies in here were talking about how the democrats were going to somehow blame Bush for their failures in 2008... hm...

JCam0331
06-25-07, 09:27 AM
But we are still suffering from what the fatass (slippery willie) DIDN'T DO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You are probably right, hildabeast does wear the balls in the family, if there are ANY AT ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SEMPER FI,

we're suffering more from what GWB did do than what WJC didn't do.

OLE SARG
06-25-07, 09:47 AM
"First of all...wow I seriously can barely read your posts. Puncatuation and grammar please?" Quote from jcamo0331

You seemed to have read my post well that time!! Take a look at your post reference SPELLING and grammar!!!!
Get serious, this is not about little childish barbs at each other. We both have different views and are expressing them. Let's get away from the playground mentality!!!!!!!!
Is that spelling and grammer OK?????????

SEMPER FI,

HOLM
06-25-07, 09:49 AM
Sarg..


You are talking to a couple guys that are worried about the "rules of war", Of course chit like yur speln and that kinda chit is going to be way more important that the substance of the message...


remember those guys are the enlightened ones..

Sgt Leprechaun
06-25-07, 09:49 AM
Oh, please Cam. More delusional Demo propaganda. Mistakes have been made, sure. But, the biggest mistake was boyclinton FAILING to kill OBL when he had the chance. Had he done that instead of diddling the help, we would be in a whole different world now.

I could forgive him diddling the help had he acted like a MAN and not a wuss when it came to protecting the country.

erased
06-25-07, 09:59 AM
Yeah, and if Bush 1 would've killed Saddam, we wouldn't be in Iraq, but that's beside the point. The Bush's and Clinton's aren't all that different, they both knew that Osama was way more useful alive. He's probably long dead by now. I mean, come on, he needs almost weekly dialysis.

Sgt Leprechaun
06-25-07, 11:15 AM
And, I agree with your first line, 100 percent. However, since we are splitting hairs, the split should be equal.

10thzodiac
06-25-07, 12:25 PM
And Rumsfeld gave up the anonymity on national television of the military policeman Sgt Joseph Darby, who wanted to remain anonymous after giving the pictures to Special Agent Tyler Pieron of the US Army Criminal Investigation Command.

Rumsfelds way of getting even ?

Sergeant Darby had to sleep with his finger on the trigger of his hand gun for fear from reprisal and transferred soon afterward. The army determined Sergeant Darby could not return to his civilian home town as his home was vulnerable to gun fire from the street in front of his home.

Sergeant Darby and his wife now reside in protective military custody at an undisclosed location.

Thank you Donnie Rumsfeld for persecuting a soldier doing his lawful duty. Its not like Sgt Darby gave the pictures to the "Inquire", he gave them to Army authorities!

drumcorpssnare
06-25-07, 03:52 PM
I see a few comments here re: Osama bin Laden. I found it interesting that he thought America would back down as a result of Sept. 11th. His plan was to make a major PR coup, over the gutless, cowardly Americans.
You can count on the fact that when the U.S. leaves Iraq, the Islamic radicals will run with their opinion that "America is weak." They plan to gain many new recruits to their cause with this propaganda. They have said so, openly.

drumcorpssnare:usmc:

Sgt Leprechaun
06-25-07, 04:17 PM
But yet we continue to insist that ole Osama is "just like us" etc etc and he'll listen to reason.

Riiiiight.

10thzodiac
06-25-07, 09:00 PM
Google: Transcript of Osama bin Laden's Speech

FistFu68
06-25-07, 09:36 PM
:evilgrin: BESIDES #10,WHY IN THE FUC;DID (YOU) JOIN THE MARINES? DON'T GIVE ME SOME CANDY~ASS CHIT,LIKE FOR THE DRESS BLUE'S OR THE SUNGLASSES!!! WHAT THE FUC,DO (YOU) REALLY KNOW A'BOUT KILLING?:evilgrin:

HOLM
06-25-07, 09:41 PM
Looks to me like that SOB is writing to guys like you and Jet 10z...


Hey in fact... He sums up your postions quite well...






Praise be to Allah, Lord of the world, prayer and peace be upon our prophet Muhammad, his kin and all his companions.

Peace, Allah's mercy and blessing be upon you, as I am directing this speech to all the Islamic Umma, to continue talking and urging them to support our prophet Muhammad, and to punish the perpetrators of the horrible crime committed by some Crusader-journalists and apostates against the master of the predecessors and successors, our prophet Muhammad.

The holy verses of the Quran and the holy prophetic teachings have all clarified the need for according love, respect and obedience to our prophet. Allah, the Almighty, has made it a taboo to offend him, saying in the Quran those who harm Allah and his messenger would be damned and severely punished.

It was also confirmed by an authentic source that prophet Muhammad said no one could be faithful until he loves me more than he loves his parents, his sons and all other people. Therefore, the Umma has reached a consensus that he who offends or degrades the messenger would be killed. Such offence is regarded as kufr (infidelity).

We ask Allah to give his blessings to whoever decried the behaviour of the infidels who have offended the prophet in every part of the world, and blessings to those who have died in the process, while we vow to Allah to avenge for those whose blood have been spilled.

The West is incapable of recognising the rights of others. It will not be able to respect others' beliefs or feelings. The West still believes in ethnic supremacy and looks down on other nations. They categorise human beings into white masters and coloured slaves.


This is why they established institutions and enacted laws to maintain their supremacy by creating the United Nations and the veto power ... . They regard jihad for the sake of God or defending one's self or his country as an act of terror. US and Europe consider jihad groups in Palestine, Chechnya, Iraq and Afghanistan as terrorist groups, so how could we talk or have understanding with them without using weapons?

On their part, the rulers of our region consider the US and Europe as their friends and allies while looking at the jihad groups that fight against the Crusaders in Iraq and Afghanistan as terrorist groups as well. So how can we reach understanding with those rulers who deny us the right to defend ourselves and our religion without carrying arms?


The net result of their thinking is for us to abandon jihad and acquiesce to remaining as their slaves. This is impossible, God willing.

The Palestine question is a manifestation of such injustices when the allied forces of the Crusaders and the Zionists decided to hand over Palestine to the Zionists to establish a state after committing massacres, displaced the indigenous Palestinians and brought Jews from all over the world to settle in Palestine.

The ongoing injustice and aggression did not stop in the last nine decades, while all attempts to reclaim our rights and exact justice on the Israeli oppressors, were blocked by the leadership of the Crusaders and Zionists' alliance by using the so-called veto power.

Such attitudes were also reflected by their rejection of the Hamas movement and its victory in the elections ... . Their rejection to Hamas has reaffirmed that they were waging a crusade against Islam.

The US sought to reach southern Sudan, recruited an army of southerners, supported them with weapons and funding and directed them to seek separation from Sudan. Then it exercised pressure against Khartoum government to sign an unjust agreement which permits south Sudan to gain independence from the north within six years.

[Sudanese President Omar] al-Bashir and [US President George] Bush should have been aware that this agreement is not worth the ink by which it was written, and we do not accord the least concern to it. Nobody, whoever he was, has the right to accede an inch of the land of Islam and the south will remain an inseparable part of the land of Isalm, God willing, even if the war continued for decades.

The US was not satisfied by all the sedition and crimes, but went on to incite sedition, the largest of which was the west Sudan sedition by exploiting some disputes between the tribes and sparking a savage war between them that will spare nothing, prior to sending in Crusader troops to occupy the region and steal its oil wealth under the pretext of peacekeeping.

This is a continuous Crusader-Zionist war against Muslims. In this respect I am inviting the mujahidin and their supporters in the Sudan and other countries around, including the Arabian peninsula in particular, to prepare all that is needed for a long-term war against the Crusaders and thieves in western Sudan.

Our objective is obvious, that is defending Islam, the people and the land but not Khartoum government since our differences with them are so enormous, mostly when it backtracked in implementing the Sharia law and abandoned south Sudan.

I urge the mujahidin to get acquainted with Darfur state tribes and land and its surroundings, keeping in mind that the region is about to face the rainy season that hampers means of transport.

This is one of the reasons why the occupation was adjourned for six months. So it is imperative to speed up action and benefit from the time factor by stocking a large amount of landmines and anti-armour grenades such as RPGs [rocket propelled grenades].

What was the aim behind barring arms from the unarmed people in Bosnia and letting the Serb army to massacre Muslims and spill their blood for years under UN cover? It was a Crusader war against Muslims.

What was the aim of the pressure against Indonesia by the Crusaders countries until East Timor, 24 hours after a warning by the UN? A Crusader-Zionist-Hindu war against Muslims.

Meanwhile, a UN resolution passed more than half a century ago gave Muslim Kashmir the liberty of choosing independence from India and Kashmir. George Bush, the leader of the Crusaders' campaign, announced a few days ago that he will order his converted agent [Pakistan President Pervez] Musharraf to shut down the Kashmir mujahidin camps, thus affirming that it is a Zionist-Hindu war against Muslims.


With respect to Pakistan, some Muslims have done a good job by assisting their fellow Muslims, God bless them, but the Pashtun tribes must be aided after the Pakistan army devastated their homes in Waziristan in order to satisfy the US.

What does the silence over Russian atrocities inside Chechnya mean, along with mutilating their bodies by tying them to tanks while the so-called free world gives its blessings and even secretly supports the aggression ? This is a Zionist crusade.


What does the humiliation of Muslims in Somalia and killing 13,000 Muslims mean, along with torching Muslims' bodies? This is a Zionist-Crusaders war.

I will remind Muslims to fear God and to save their brothers in the African Horn from the famine that hit them.

What does the destruction of the infrastructure in Iraq mean and the tragedy that befell them mean? And the use of depleted uranium, besieging Iraq for years, causing the death of more than one million children which amazed all who had visited Iraq, including the Westerners themselves? It is a malicious crusade against Muslims.

What does the reoccupation of Iraq mean by using lies and deception along with murder, destruction, detention, torture and creation of huge military bases to dominate the whole region? It is a Zionist crusade against Muslims.

What about the continuous cultural domination through the setting up of radio stations and TV channels along with the Voice of America, London and others to continue the cultural domination of Muslims, combat our beliefs, change our values, encourage vice and even interfere with school curricula?

How can we explain France's stance on the headscarf and the banning on wearing it at schools, its relentless dealing with the Muslim community and its plan to establish a TV channel in Morocco to combat Islamic awareness there? This is a Zionist-Crusader war.

In conclusion, a war is under way to offend the messenger of Allah, his religion and his Umma (nation). The Muslim preparedness and their jihad should be on a par with these events. The duty of our Muslim nation over this Crusaders' campaign with its different aspects is to focus on supporting the prophet, his religion and the Umma to the best of our ability in all fields.

Despite the numerous Crusader attacks against our Muslim nation in military, economic, cultural and moral aspects, but the gravest of them all is the attack against our religion, our prophet and the our Sharia tenets. The epicentre of these wars is Baghdad, the seat of the khalifate rule. They keep reiterating that success in Baghdad will be success for the US, failure in Iraq the failure of the US.

Their defeat in Iraq will mean defeat in all their wars and a beginning to the receding of their Zionist-Crusader tide against us. Your mujahidin sons and brothers in Iraq have taught the US a hard lesson while in the fourth year of the Crusaders' invasion, they are steadfast and patient and keep killing and wounding enemy soldiers every day.

It is a duty for the Umma with all its categories, men, women and youths, to give away themselves, their money, experiences and all types of material support, enough to establish jihad in the fields of jihad particularly in Iraq, Palestine, Afghanistan, Sudan, Kashmir and Chechnya. Jihad today is an imperative for every Muslim. The Umma will commit sin if it did not provide adequate material support for jihad.

O fellow Muslims, pay no heed for the number of the enemy and their arsenal of arms because victory is a gift of God while the enemy, praise be to God, is experiencing a critical situation.

erased
06-25-07, 09:48 PM
So... Bin Laden says he hates us because of our policies.... hm... Yeah, I'm sure the ultra-conservative Republicans know better than him though.

HOLM
06-25-07, 10:10 PM
Who gives a fuk why he hates us...


Why don't you go over there and blow in his ear...

I'll bet he would still shoot your ass...


He spits out that Bullchit because you beleive it.. He hates us because he has misunderstood his religion...

NO amount of talking or "policy correction" is going to change that...


I took Hitler years before he came outright with the kill all the Jews mantra.. and even then he mixed it up...

Guess who was the enemy... Thats right... The guy hell bent on leaving him alone... FDR....

10thzodiac
06-25-07, 10:12 PM
:evilgrin: BESIDES #10,WHY IN THE FUC;DID (YOU) JOIN THE MARINES? DON'T GIVE ME SOME CANDY~ASS CHIT,LIKE FOR THE DRESS BLUE'S OR THE SUNGLASSES!!! WHAT THE FUC,DO (YOU) REALLY KNOW A'BOUT KILLING?:evilgrin:

Glad you asked, when I was seventeen I wasn't too bright, but I got over that, what's your excuse/problem ?

Know about killing ? Unless I'm mistaken, I think you are implying did I ever kill anybody and allegedly you have, correct ? Never had the misfortune too. Can I, try me !

HOLM
06-25-07, 10:17 PM
More from the "misuderstood" bin Laden


HUmmmmm


This is the message which I sought to communicate to you in word and deed, repeatedly, for years before September 11th.
And you can read this, if you wish, in my interview with Scott in Time Magazine in 1996, or with Peter Arnett on CNN in 1997, or my meeting with John Weiner in 1998.


You can observe it practically, if you wish, in Kenya and Tanzania and in Aden. And you can read it in my interview with Abdul Bari Atwan, as well as my interviews with Robert Fisk.


The latter is one of your compatriots and co-religionists and I consider him to be neutral. So are the pretenders of freedom at the White House and the channels controlled by them:banana: able to run an interview with him? So that he may relay to the American people what he has understood from us to be the reasons for our fight against you?


wiki about Robert Fisk

Described by the New York Times (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_New_York_Times) as "probably the most famous foreign correspondent in Britain

In the British journalistic tradition of the foreign correspondent, Fisk has developed a personal analysis of the foreign affairs that he covers and presents them in that light, often with trenchant criticism of the British government and its allies

erased
06-25-07, 10:43 PM
You really need to quit posting entire news articles or giant excerpts and expecting people to see things from your point of view.

All I'm seeing here is that he says he's been telling us why he hates us and had been interviewed by people of the western culture that he apparently wants to completely destroy... but he somehow managed to supress his animalistic desire for jihad long enough to conduct at least 4 interviews with (people with western sounding names). Oh, and he doesn't like our media... Really, what are you trying to prove with this?

JCam0331
06-25-07, 10:48 PM
:evilgrin: BESIDES #10,WHY IN THE FUC;DID (YOU) JOIN THE MARINES? DON'T GIVE ME SOME CANDY~ASS CHIT,LIKE FOR THE DRESS BLUE'S OR THE SUNGLASSES!!! WHAT THE FUC,DO (YOU) REALLY KNOW A'BOUT KILLING?:evilgrin:

The Marine Corps doesn't want mindless, cold blooded killers, the Marine Corps wants sharp, intelligent, physically fit and tactically proficient PROFESSIONAL SOLDIERS


Semper Fi.

FistFu68
06-25-07, 10:52 PM
:evilgrin: WASN'T EVEN TALKING TOO YOU NUMBER 10!!!IT WAS DIRECTED AT YOU'R PET SQUIRREL'S.MY PROBLEM OR EXCUSE,NO.8 IN THE DRAFT;AND REALLY DIDN'T APPRECIATE THE FRIGGING ENEMY SHOOTING AT ME. GETTING A LITTLE TRIGGER HAPPY AT YOU'R AGE,ARE WE???(LOL):D

JCam0331
06-25-07, 11:00 PM
:evilgrin: WASN'T EVEN TALKING TOO YOU NUMBER 10!!!IT WAS DIRECTED AT YOU'R PET SQUIRREL'S.MY PROBLEM OR EXCUSE,NO.8 IN THE DRAFT;AND REALLY DIDN'T APPRECIATE THE FRIGGING ENEMY SHOOTING AT ME. GETTING A LITTLE TRIGGER HAPPY AT YOU'R AGE,ARE WE???(LOL):D

sorry I can't understand what you're saying or if it's directed at me. But what I posted was a fact, not an insult or attack on you.

The Marine Corps is a Professional, All Volunteer Force. We want Professional Soldiers, not killers.

FistFu68
06-25-07, 11:00 PM
:evilgrin: WELL HOW THE FUC,DID YOU GET IN? DON'T ASK DON'T TELL??? WHO DIED AND LEFT YOU A FRIGGING GURU,(BOOT).SOLDIER BOY(LMFAO)!!!!:D

JCam0331
06-25-07, 11:08 PM
:evilgrin: WELL HOW THE FUC,DID YOU GET IN? DON'T ASK DON'T TELL??? WHO DIED AND LEFT YOU A FRIGGING GURU,(BOOT).SOLDIER BOY(LMFAO)!!!!:D


someone decipher please

10thzodiac
06-25-07, 11:11 PM
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=j>Touché</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

One for HOLM and AIPAC ! Nice shot, I see you didn't google:

Full transcript of bin Laden's speech 11/01/04


Hmmm...

10thzodiac
06-25-07, 11:15 PM
:evilgrin: WASN'T EVEN TALKING TOO YOU NUMBER 10!!!IT WAS DIRECTED AT YOU'R PET SQUIRREL'S.MY PROBLEM OR EXCUSE,NO.8 IN THE DRAFT;AND REALLY DIDN'T APPRECIATE THE FRIGGING ENEMY SHOOTING AT ME. GETTING A LITTLE TRIGGER HAPPY AT YOU'R AGE,ARE WE???(LOL):D

You got me brother, I do have a temper and can loose it, what other branch of service could I've been more unhappier in than the Marines (LOL) :D

erased
06-26-07, 12:19 AM
someone decipher please
Ha ha ha. That one deserves a beer. Cheers!

Edit: A beer for me... not you... sorry.

JCam0331
06-26-07, 05:21 AM
Ha ha ha. That one deserves a beer. Cheers!

Edit: A beer for me... not you... sorry.


Its ok I haven't touched a drop for months now...

OCS is looming...

HOLM
06-26-07, 08:49 AM
You really need to quit posting entire news articles or giant excerpts and expecting people to see things from your point of view.

WHy don't you tell that to your don't ask don't tell buddie jet...




All I'm seeing here is that he says he's been telling us why he hates us and had been interviewed by people of the western culture that he apparently wants to completely destroy... but he somehow managed to supress his animalistic desire for jihad long enough to conduct at least 4 interviews with (people with western sounding names). Oh, and he doesn't like our media... Really, what are you trying to prove with this?
And you don't find it interesting that he spews the DEMOCRAT party line...


Oh be nice to me and I'll stop killing.. All I want is for the occupation to get off my land. blah blah blah


Read it.. It is all here... and YOU are spitting back all of the talking points in


BIN LADEN speechs


case point early 2005 speech

http://www.worldpress.org/print_article.cfm?article_id=2084&dont=yes


So I say to you, over 15,000 of our people have been killed and tens of thousands injured, while more than a thousand of you have been killed and more than 10,000 injured. And Bush's hands are stained with the blood of all those killed from both sides, all for the sake of oil and keeping their private companies in business.

And the same goes for your allies in Palestine (Israel). They terrorise the women and children, and kill and capture the men as they lie sleeping with their families on the mattresses, that you may recall that for every action, there is a reaction.

Speaking to America remember

And it's no secret to you that the thinkers and perceptive ones ( the ****** panty waste liberals) from among the Americans warned Bush before the war and told him: "All that you want for securing America and removing the weapons of mass destruction - assuming they exist - is available to you, and the nations of the world are with you in the inspections, and it is in the interest of America that it not be thrust into an unjustified war with an unknown outcome."

If it were up to me... I would have your azz's tried for treason..

jetdawgg
06-26-07, 09:19 AM
HOLM provides us the AIPAC view:D

This is what he'd like to see now:

http://www.rense.com/1.imagesH/carrier_dees.jpg

Sgt Leprechaun
06-26-07, 10:56 AM
I'm sure that would terrify the terrorists. Probably plenty of good liberals as well...lol...

FistFu68
06-26-07, 02:09 PM
:evilgrin: NO BIGGY #10,YOU'R STILL MY MARINE BROTHER;I'D BE HAPPY TO HAVE YOU IN MY SQUAD ANYDAY.BUT YOU GOTTA WALK POINT,DON'T WANT YOU HUMPING BEHIND ME MAD;WITH YOU'R 16 GAUGE!!!(LMAO) 10/4:D

erased
06-26-07, 02:20 PM
WHy don't you tell that to your don't ask don't tell buddie jet...



And you don't find it interesting that he spews the DEMOCRAT party line...


Oh be nice to me and I'll stop killing.. All I want is for the occupation to get off my land. blah blah blah


Read it.. It is all here... and YOU are spitting back all of the talking points in

...

If it were up to me... I would have your azz's tried for treason..


You are completely out of your mind. You really need to get back on your meds. If me, Bin Laden, Bush, and Jesus himself all say 1+1=2, does that mean we're all on the same side? You're trying entirely too hard to twist this issue.

drumcorpssnare
06-26-07, 02:50 PM
Now wait just a gol darn minute...

The Democrats want to raise our taxes, and "take care of us" because we don't know how to.

Osama bin Laden and his crew want to kill us.

How is that the same agenda?
drumcorpssnare:usmc:

erased
06-26-07, 02:54 PM
Agreed, and I'm sick as hell of paying income tax.

Ron Paul - 2008

jetdawgg
06-26-07, 03:44 PM
Agreed, and I'm sick as hell of paying income tax.

Ron Paul - 2008

:D :D

kato811
06-27-07, 06:32 PM
If they dint know about it they dont deserve to be in office